User talk:Trevor MacInnis/Archive 8

Upcoming World Development contest
Penubag has been hard at work developing awards for this project. He has completed a very professional looking medal, and is almost done with a trophy that is truly awesome - both of these awards are visually stunning.

I and a few others have been working steadily on the country outlines that will be the focus of the contest - an outline for every country of the world! They're shaping up nicely. So far, 28 of them have been moved to article space - these aren't complete, but they are complete enough to be made available for readers to benefit from them. The rest of the set still includes temporary data that was generated by template (because it matched most but not all of the countries), and before those lists can be moved to article space, all the temporary data needs to be checked for accuracy, and if incorrect it needs to be replaced with correct information.

The effort on the lists has been on 3 fronts:
 * 1) Working on the lists in article space to complete them so they will be good examples for editors working on the rest of the set (during the contest).
 * 2) Adding or correcting other data (fixing redlinks, filling in blanks, etc.).  The main type of work participants in the contest will be doing.  The reason we're doing this is to get a feel for it, to develop the fastest methods for each type of task, etc.
 * 3) Improving the overall design and implenting changes on all 247 pages, whether in article space or not.

There has been some opposition to us running the contest based on edit counts or iterations. The concern is that we should reward quality work and not quantity, for fear of crappy edits done quickly without thought just to earn an award. I pointed out that the collection of pages are drafts in the Wikipedia namespace (therefore posing no danger to article space) and that most of the work needs to be done with power tools like AWB and Linky (which are specifically designed for repetitive volumnous work), but the reply was that we shouldn't set the precedent of rewarding barnstars for numerically-based tasks, and implied the threat of continuously MfD'ing the contest if we attempted to do so (like they did with the Awards Center - I was very surprised and disappointed that participants didn't step up to defend it). So we need to be careful in determining what exactly the awards will represent, and how they will be awarded.

Since rewarding iterations (passes with AWB on all of the pages in the set) are out, we really don't need the globe-in-stand (award we were working on) anymore. Two awards should suffice.

Once we get started with the contest, I'd like to kick the whole thing off with a round of medals for those dedicated few who have worked hard on the project so far.

What do you think of all of this?

Your comments and suggestions are most welcome.

The Transhumanist 00:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Request for block
It's the same user, as can be seen by one editing the other's talk page.  Enigma  message 03:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Done- Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Straw poll
The Main Page Redesign proposal is currently conducting a straw poll in selecting five proposals before an RFC in which it will be against the current main page. You're input would be appreciated. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:12, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Voted. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of American Airlines Flight 268
An article that you have been involved in editing, American Airlines Flight 268, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/American Airlines Flight 268. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? LeadSongDog (talk) 14:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Voted. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

SPAD S.VII
I have deleted a couple of your tags in this article - by simply eliminating the (highly doubtful) "facts" that gave rise to them. I would like to cut out a bit more, too, as I suspect the (uncited) source is actually a very unreliable French book.--Soundofmusicals (talk) 13:47, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Air Canada
The Air Canada article failed to make B quality due to referencing. I've been working hard to improve that. Would you be willing to take a look at the article and to give me feedback--Rosetown (talk) 22:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Hello
Hello from Sioux Lookout! - 76.70.4.221 (talk) 22:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello me! -Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 17, 2008 and before.
Because the Signpost hasn't been sent in a while, to save space, I've condensed all seven issues that were not sent into this archive. Only the three issues from November are below.

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Image:Wiki letter A.png listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Wiki letter A.png, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk ) 04:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

X-plane
Hi,

I inform you that I created a complet list with images of x-planes in the page x-plane. I worked from your initial list in your sandbox that I completed. Have a nice day.--Tangopaso (talk) 08:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

WWI Fighter ace code edits
Trevor, my good fellow,

Am I right in observing that you have been removing those extra little dits in the list that look like this:?



I did not see that they caused any problem with the final appearance of the list. On the other hand, I have an admittedly tin eye for graphics.

Not so BTW--it's good to see you back.

Georgejdorner (talk) 06:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Whether you were removing dits |- or not, I have done doed it.

Also, List of World War I flying aces is basically complete.

Now, if I can just recruit some folkses to take on the national lists, and break them, a la your fine example....

Georgejdorner (talk) 02:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Template WPAVIATION
Hi Trevor, happy new year. I believe that there is some kind of problem with WPAVIATION, one editor says that it is 'broken'. I'm seeing differences between the actual assessment on the talk page of an article and what is displayed on the article page. I asked the navigation gadget programme creator about it here:. Hoping that it is not my fingers causing the problem! Cheers Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)   09:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Trevor, I agree. I would not count an article assessed unless the checklist has been completed. I am seeing some stubs though that have been promoted to start that are still refusing to display properly, this would not be affected by the checklist 'interlock' would it? Perhaps it is just an enormous lag in the server. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)   18:47, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Just had a thought, the class is showing as expected in the template, the problem I'm having is a disagreement between the talk page class display and the assessment display that I see underneath the article title using the navigation gadget that also previews articles when you hover over a link. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)   18:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Template now uses WPBannerMeta. Problems "fixed". - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Template:WPAVIATION
A warning would be better than forcing the class to Start-class without letting the person know why it's doing that. The discussion originated from here: User_talk:Pyrospirit/metadata. Gary King ( talk ) 19:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Years
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Reverting
Just a quick HI to a fellow user of WP:HUGGLE... QUIT BEATING ME TO THE REVERTS! You're beating Cluebot too... it keeps complaining... :) --Chasingsol(talk) 03:45, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

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User:Pelirrojo778
Hi, this editor needs to be monitored. Green Squares (talk) 18:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

File:PPcornerTop2.gif listed for deletion
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Tutorial redesign
Hi, I was just cleaning up Category:Wikipedia tutorial and I noticed your tutorial redesign e.g Tutorial/Redesign, which has the category attached. I've been tweaking the help/intro pages (inc tutorial) just wondering wif the redesign got applied, or went onto a back burner or if you've dropped it? LeeVJ (talk) 02:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Replied on his talk page. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

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Template:WPAVIATION/sandbox
I've added a version of the B-Class checklist with only the 5 parameters to the sandbox template. This involved using a hook template called WPBannerMeta/hooks/bchecklist5 and also created a custom class page (Template:WPAVIATION/class).

I've also added a testcases page to show it working.

-- WOSlinker (talk) 09:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

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Countervandalism barnstar
Dl2000 (talk) 04:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

WPAVIATION
Since Template:WPAVIATION is protected, it might be a good idea to protect the following templates that are used by WPAVIATION. -- WOSlinker (talk) 14:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Template:WPBannerMeta/bchecklist5
 * Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/bchecklist5
 * Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/collaboration
 * Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/collapsed
 * Template:WPAVIATION/class
 * Template:WPAVIATION/bchecklistcats


 * Done. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 15:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

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Country outlines project update - 2009/03/08
Remember "Around the World"?

Well, we've been around the World, and around again (virtually speaking, on Wikipedia), on this project.

Things have been slowing down again, so it's time for a big push...

We've gone live
This project needed a shot in the arm. Also, its draft pages have been littering Wikipedia's categories for months. The time seemed right to move all the country outline drafts to article space.

WHAT???

Well, the drafts had been sitting in Wikipedia space for a year.

WHAT???

Development has been moving at a snail's pace and we could use the help of the Wikipedia community at large (who are more likely to find these if they are in article space).

WHAT???

Yes, we've gone live. :)

This puts pressure on us to get the blatantly incomplete elements of these outlines done. The only glaring problem is the government branches sections. These need to be corrected ASAP.

I've mentioned THE GOVERNMENT BRANCHES SECTIONS many times to many people over the past year, but the problem just doesn't seem to have been taken seriously. So let me put it another way:

HELP!!! I need your help on this now. Almost all the countries have a government with an executive branch, a legislative branch, and a judicial branch. The links for these branches need to be completed for each country outline:


 * Here's a convenient list you can use WP:LINKY on to access and edit these quickly. Please copy the list's link to the top of your talk page so that you can access it easily.

If you spot any standardization in links, and ways we can automate parts of this process, or for groups of countries that have links in common, please let me know!

Administrative support for outlines
There has been growing pressure on me to write up the administrative pages for outlines - their instructions, guidelines, etc. Therefore, I'm now in the process of composing these. Fortunately, it is mostly a matter of gathering material from messages I've written to you guys over the past year. Still, this is taking up most of my time, and I will be buried in these for the foreseeable future.

Traffic control
The next big task after the government branches sections are cleaned up is link support for the outlines.

There's quite a list of links and notices that need to be put in place around Wikipedia, providing access to them to readers, and alerting editors to the need to develop and maintain these pages. This will keep our bot people very busy (and happy).

But the most important thing right now is to get the government branches sections completed. So please, put your bots aside, roll up your shirt sleeves, and start typing.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist 03:29, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

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Template:WPAVIATION
It was apparently broken by your change to WPBannerMeta a week ago. I have reverted it to the last stable version for now, so you should take a look and debug the code in the meantime. —Admiral Norton (talk) 18:18, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, I think the problem was due to an edit on Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/collapsed, see, I think when you put back WPAVIATION to the way it was, that you should protect this hook template as well. -- WOSlinker (talk) 23:29, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

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Deprecation of airport codes template
I would appreciate your input to my proposal to deprecate the airport codes template. - Canglesea (talk) 17:22, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Vancover International Airport
Hi. The consensus at WP:AIRPORTS was that the Destinations by Region section is to be removed. If against it, please discuss. Thanks! 74.183.173.237 (talk) 21:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVII (March 2009)
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The Wright brothers patent war
Hello, do you think now that the Supporting materials criterion is met now for the The Wright brothers patent war to achieve B-class status ? Hervegirod (talk) 10:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

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Stinson Junior
Thank you for improving the format and name of this article! The Junior is quite distinct from the Detroiter, but because I dont know how to handle redirects, I could not use the simple and appropriate article name that you have now added. Much better! RuthAS (talk) 08:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

List of the busiest airports in Central America by passenger traffic
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of List of the busiest airports in Central America by passenger traffic, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: List of airports in Central America. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally moving or duplicating content, please be sure you have followed the procedure at Splitting by acknowledging the duplication of material in edit summary to preserve attribution history.

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 * Thanks, I'm just moveing some misplaced content. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 00:58, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

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Assessment of conventional landing gear
It is considered good practice to document how you came to your assessment of an article. So, where does conventional landing gear pass or fail? And against which set of criteria are you measuring it? Paul Beardsell (talk) 00:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I measured it against the Aviation WikiProjects'sQuality scale. Unless I have time to inspect it closer, and it is obviously a very good article, I usually just decide between stub and start. To go any higher than start requires the B-class checklist anyways, so these are the two options for most articles initial assessment. It's a stub if "The article is either a very short article or a rough collection of information that will need much work to become a meaningful article. It is usually very short, but if the material is irrelevant or incomprehensible, an article of any length falls into this category.". It's a start if "The article has a usable amount of good content, but it is weak in many areas, usually in referencing. Quality of the prose may be distinctly unencyclopedic, and MoS compliance non-existent; but the article should satisfy fundamental content policies such as notability and BLP, and provide enough sources to establish verifiability. No Start-Class article should be in any danger of being speedily deleted."

I went ahead and did the checklist for the landing gear article. I was originally iffy on item 2, "The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. It contains a large proportion of the material necessary for an A-Class article, although some sections may need expansion, and some less important topics may be missing." but i think its good enough for now, but it won't get past a GA, A or FA review. - 00:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Aviation pages
I notice that this category you created is unpopulated (empty). In other words, no Wikipedia pages belong to it. If it remains unpopulated for four days, it may be deleted without discussion, in accordance with Criteria for speedy deletion. I'm notifying you in case you wish to (re-)populate it by adding to pages that belong in it.

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Hello!
Hello there me. It's me from Smithers! - 75.153.55.107 (talk) 00:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Forum
I just signed up to that site, using my username from Wikipedia. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 03:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, confirmed!dottydotdot (talk) 06:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

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POTD notification
Hi Trevor,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Me109 G-6 D-FMBB 1.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on May 2, 2009. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2009-05-02.  howcheng  {chat} 21:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

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It wasn't vandalizm, I was making it grammatical. "A veggie" says nothing, I wanted to say "she is"

Jagdgeschwader 11
Hi Trevor,

Thanks for rating JG 11 as Class B. I have been on this article for a while and am actually shooting for A not B. After my final recheck of the prose and content, I was planning to list for a GA review as a start. You kind of beat me to the punch... Perseus71 (talk) 02:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

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Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Wikipedians in Smithers, British Columbia
Category:Wikipedians in Smithers, British Columbia,, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. VegaDark (talk) 14:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Club Magazine Cover.jpg)
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Article in trouble
I have been trying to build a consensus on development of Forward Air Control. There is a Gordian knot of military terms that needs untangling: Forward air control (airborne); Forward air control (ground), a.k.a Joint Terminal Attack Controller; Air Liaison Officer. There is also a rush by writers with differing viewpoints (self included) to build the article, each to their own design. The result is becoming the classic definition of a camel; a horse designed by committee.

I do not wish to get into an edit war or some other kind of spitting contest. I do want this article to be clear, informative, and focused.

I believe a senior Wikipedist's intervention is needed, for the good of the work. Please intervene.

Georgejdorner (talk) 05:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XXXIX (May 2009)
The May 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Maurice Bishop International Airport
Please look at: Talk:Maurice Bishop International Airport. I believe we need to delete Maurice Bishop International Airport and move Point Salines International Airport to that name. Thanks. - Canglesea (talk) 21:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Wiki-birthday
Our records show that you've been a valued Wikipedian for five years today! Happy wiki-birthday. I hope the next five years bring you much to celebrate. – Quadell (talk) 13:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Mono Tiltrotor (Disambiguation)
Trevor,

I'm a wiki-neophyte, so please pardon me if I am unintentionally impolite. I noticed you started the 'Mono-Tilt-Rotor' article. To clarify this subject, I felt compelled to start the 'Mono Tiltrotor' article, which is a completely separate topic. The article you created might be better titled 'Mono-Tilt-Rotor Rotary-Ring'. I don't have authorization to rename articles, so I thought I'd suggest this to you. The pair of articles might even warrant a disambiguation page.

Doug--Gdbaldw (talk) 00:40, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

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Frederick McCall
This article still needs some inline citations, and seems to be principally your work. I know you have claimed the Canadian aces as your bailiwick. With those cites added, I think there is a right nice "B" Class article here.Georgejdorner (talk) 06:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

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Template:WPAVIATION WikiProject assessment level category
Hi - There are problems w/ this template and its sister template. See the discussion at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation. Your help is appreciated! --Funandtrvl (talk) 02:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Avro redirect
Hi Trevor: I'm probably confused, but why does Avro Type F redirect to Roe Type G, not Roe Type F?TSRL (talk) 16:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XL (June 2009)
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My talk page
Thank you mate :-)). - <font color="green" size="2px">Jeffrey Mall | <font color="black" size="1px">Talk2Me  | <font color="black" size="1px">BNosey  - 01:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks from me, too, while I was blocking that account. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 01:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

RE clean up ref per request using AWB
nice going! Thanks for taking care of this. Agradman talk/contribs 19:10, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No prob, hope I got 'em all! - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 23:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Articles for deletion/Jackobillia
The above discussion shows the page as deleted - however although the page Jackobillia has indeed been deleted, this was a redirect to Jackobilia (i.e. with only 1 l) - which the creator of the article moved during the AfD process. Would it be possible to delete the Jackobilia page as well, as this was obviously the intention of the AfD (if you see the comments on the AfD discussion, you'll see that I mentioned the move at my comment time stamped 15:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC). Thanks --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 16:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks. Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 16:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 16:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

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AfD nomination of Lift vector
An article that you have been involved in editing, Lift vector, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Dolphin51 (talk) 06:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC) == Wikipedia Signpost <span style="color:#666; font-variant: small-caps; font-size:80%; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">: 3 August 2009 ==


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Stub tagging help
Hi Trevor, I hope you can help, I created a new engine terminology stub tag: Aeroengine-term-stub and a new category for them to be placed in: Category:Aircraft engine terminology stubs. When I apply the tag to articles that need it the article appears in the category but also remains visible in Category:Aircraft engine stubs. It was my intention to separate the two types of article. There is something in the WPAVIATION banner that seems to be driving or overruling the stub tag but I can't work out what it is. Cheers Nimbus <font style="color:#2F4F4F;">(Cumulus <font style="color:#708090;">nimbus <font style="color:#D3D3D3;">floats by)   10:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've purged the cache twice today which did fix the navigation pop up not showing the correct class on the front page but I still seem to be having the other problem, Core size is an article that is appearing in both categories (for me) even though it only has the terminology stub tag. Bit of a mystery. Nimbus <font style="color:#2F4F4F;">(Cumulus <font style="color:#708090;">nimbus <font style="color:#D3D3D3;">floats by)   23:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Noticed that the terminology stub cat is showing on the article page but the engine stub tag is appearing on the talk page, perhaps it is the combination of 'stub' and 'engines' in the banner code? Nimbus <font style="color:#2F4F4F;">(Cumulus <font style="color:#708090;">nimbus <font style="color:#D3D3D3;">floats by)   23:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Trevor, yes it is displaying the same for me so is working as advertised. What I am trying to do is separate the types of article so that they appear in one category or the other but not both. I think the only way to do that is to remove the 'engines=yes' parameter (or change it to 'no' which may not be ideal). Might be stuck with the articles in both categories, no biggie. Nimbus <font style="color:#2F4F4F;">(Cumulus <font style="color:#708090;">nimbus <font style="color:#D3D3D3;">floats by)   08:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right! At least with the new tag we can divide them into the two categories if we want so we haven't lost anything. Amazing progress with the engines this year. Nimbus <font style="color:#2F4F4F;">(Cumulus <font style="color:#708090;">nimbus <font style="color:#D3D3D3;">floats by)   16:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your support

 * No prob. Good Luck. -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  21:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Shameless thankspam


FlyingToaster Barnstar Hello Trevor! Thank you so much for your support in my  recent RfA , which passed with a tally of 126 / 32 / 5. I am truly humbled by the trust you placed in me, and will endeavor to live up to that trust.  Flying Toaster 
 * Sure thing! -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  21:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Republic Xp-69
Personally i feel that both the Xp-69 and Xp-72 should not have separate articles and be incorporated in the P-47 article, but there you go!!!Petebutt (talk) 18:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Hopefully things work out well. -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  21:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Thumbs up to clean up
It's good to see you pop up on my watchlist again. FYI, I have returned to, and have been improving, the very first articles I wrote just after you recruited me.

For which act I wish to thank you.

Georgejdorner (talk) 04:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure. Good work too!. -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  21:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Improving World War I flying ace list
I am uncertain about the thrust of your suggestion because I do not quite understand it. However, if you mean to use the bot to condense the names of the air services and/or medals awarded, I think it would be a good thing. I DO NOT believe splitting the list to either national air services or to an alphabetic listing is a good thing. On the contrary, I believe it would destroy a great deal of the list's utility. (Re-read the List of World War I flying aces talk page for an exhaustive discussion, if you need details).

I think I have finally come up with a viable method of splitting the list into smaller sections without ruining its integrity. Again, see the list's talk page, please.

Georgejdorner (talk) 15:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Trevor, my good fellow,

I think that your idea has merit. After a year's fishing about for a solution to the dilemma, yours is the best I have seen yet, providing it lowers loading time into the aging computers of those cursed with dialup net service.

On the other hand, it has been a year. If you check the edit history of the list, you will see I have done about 85% of all the work filling it out. I have invested a tremendous amount of work and thought.

All that is sitting there, just waiting for someone to hamfistedly butcher it into fragments. When I trace the new tag on the list, I discover I have the second largest article in Wikipedia. Something is going to happen, and soon, and I want the happening to be something that makes me happy.

So I am pausing. I have established sublists for 7, 6, and 5 victories--6 sublists in all. But I won't stay paused long; there is too much chance of a detrimental edit or edits.

I am not threatening, just very nervous. I feel I have a lot at stake.

Georgejdorner (talk) 22:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe we are working along the same lines. You want to parcel out the sub-lists using the same sections of the original master list that I do. I like your idea of page top and page bottom templates, although I am not satisfied with the information presented on them.

I can only assume that Airline Codes-A loads much more easily and quickly than the master list now extant.

At any rate, I propose this:

1) Let me continue to peel off sections into sub-lists, such as World War aces credited with 8 victories, etcetera, until only the highest scoring table World War I aces credited with more than 27 victories remains on the List of World War I flying aces page--along with the present page top and page bottom. List the links to the sublists in a written format just after World War I aces credited with more than 27 victories, so when the reader hits the bottom of the table, they can go further if they wish. (Hate to say it, but your links table is not esthetic nor easily comprehended.)

2) I don't feel the sublists should have as much narrative info as List of World War I flying aces; I feel that List of World War I flying aces should be first among equals with narrative. The page top template on the sublists should also contain links to main articles List of World War I flying aces, Master list of World War I flying aces, and Flying aces.

3) The page bottom template should contain a citation for the applicable pages of http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/by_score.php; this will differ from sublist to sublist. Additional citations will also have to be selectively added to tables of higher scores, but I can do that.

When done, the List of World War I flying aces page will link to all sublists. All the sublists will link to one another and to List of World War I flying aces and Master list of World War I flying aces. With a Caution attached to the latter, warning about possible loading problems.

Master list of World War I flying aces, you wonder? Where did that come from?

Just reverse the deconstruction I just did and gather up the List of World War I flying aces and all the sublists, and list them a la Airline Codes-A. Voila! Master list of World War I flying aces!

I could revert to my last splitting of sublists--7 victories, I believe--and have step (1) above completed in a day.

How about it?

Georgejdorner (talk) 04:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

For some reason, I posted this on my own talk page originally. A rather convoluted way of talking to one's self.... Don't worry, these fits pass (lol).

I agree with you about the clunky arbitrary breakage on the lists. This is the result of previous help I received. I might add, top ten lists are such a cliche.

My ideal list of the top scorers would run from 20 through 80 victories. This would include the top scoring ace(s) of all air services; the lowest of the lot would be Alexander Kozakoff, the leading Russian ace, with 20 victories. However, this would probably cause loading problems, so let me supply you with data to help you figure out new tables:

40 - 80 victories: 28 aces, and 31 - 40 victories: 43 aces, OR

30 - 80 victories: 71 aces.

25 - 29 victories: 47 aces.

20 - 25 victories: 69 aces.

15 - 19 victories: 126 aces.

10 - 14 victories: 332 aces. (This breaks out as: 14 victories = 31 aces; 13 victories = 52 aces; 12 victories = 87 victories; 11 victories = 79 aces; 10 victories = 82 aces.) So maybe this should be: 12-14 victories, with 171 aces, and 10 - 11 victories, with 161 aces.

9 victories: 125 aces.

8 victories: 181 aces.

For the sublists already created:

7 victories = 228 aces.

6 victories (A - K) = 138 aces, and 6 victories (L - Z) = 138 aces, for a total of 276 aces with 6 victories.

5 victories (A - F) = 119 aces, 5 victories (G - Q) = 177 aces, and 5 victories (R - Z) = 113 aces, for a total of 409 aces with 5 victories.

When calculating loading, keep in mind that the higher scoring aces eat up more kilobytes because they have so many awards to be listed. Conversely, the lower scoring aces use fewer kb. Also, I think we should leave room to add a graphic or two to each sublist, and to the main list.

I am going to create sublists for 8 and 9 victory aces, pending your take on how we should break the higher scoring aces. I will also try to work on bottom and top templates of the sublists I have created, or am creating, if only to add sources for the info in the tables.

It is such a treat to work with someone of a similar mind.

Georgejdorner (talk) 19:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Trevor,

Let me, then, carry on devolving the present List of World War I flying aces. I intend to keep the sublists to as "round" of numbers as possible, such as 10 - 14, 15 - 19, 20....maybe use 12 (a dozen) to demark in worst case. I do want to split off more user-friendly and less arbitrary sublistings than the existing ones.

Georgejdorner (talk) 04:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Trevor,

I now have established the following sublists to be put into your Table of Contents template:

World War I aces credited with 5 victories (fractional lists for 5 victories should be deleted)

World War I aces credited with 6 victories (fractional lists for 6 victories should be deleted)

World War I aces credited with 7 victories

World War I aces credited with 8 victories

World War I aces credited with 9 victories

World War I aces credited with 10 victories

World War I aces credited with 11 - 14 victories

World War I aces credited with 15 - 19 victories

World War I aces credited with more than 20 victories

I have left the latter upon the List of World War I flying aces list until we decide what will replace it. My suggestions:

List (with graphics) of the top scoring ace in every flying service, OR

List (with graphics) of the top scoring ace from every nation.

What say you?

Georgejdorner (talk) 16:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Trevor,

A minor matter. Heinrich Gontermann actually became Heinrich Ritter von Gontermann when he won the Bavarian Military Order of Max Joseph. Does that call for a redirect?

Georgejdorner (talk) 19:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: the above:

To maintain consistency, the article should be named Heinrich Ritter von Gontermann, with a redirect from Heinrich Gontermann.

Georgejdorner (talk) 04:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I actually haven't come across any references to Gontermann's honorific except that he won the Max Joseph.

Georgejdorner (talk) 21:04, 9 August 2009 (UTC)