User talk:Tryptofish/Archive 34

August, 2017 – February, 2018

Fish question
Hi. Could you please check my revision here and see if it makes sense? I wanted to get rid of the ugly slash, but I wasn't sure whether "and" or "or" was more appropriate—and after reading both salmon and trout and considering the taxonomic nomenclature as well as the common names, I became more and more confused about which is a subset of which (or if it's even possible to say). Rivertorch  FIREWATER  03:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that your edit was spot-on. I haven't looked into the taxonomic details, but they are absolutely sufficiently different that "or" is just strange. Salmon are basically saltwater fish whereas trout are freshwater (although maybe there are exceptions I don't know about). --Tryptofish (talk) 17:30, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Please
I took a screen shot of a 'thank you' that you sent me that is slightly more humorous than the original post on the talk page. I would like you to have it. Please email me by clicking on the icon in my signature. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 09:16, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much; that's very kind of you. But I have a rather firm policy of never using email on Wikipedia, largely for privacy reasons. I'm considering changing my mind about that, but that is how things are now. But I really do thank you! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Greetings
This is user Allan Combs. I want to first advise you that I am not Allan Combs; my name is Steve (I was putting together a Wikipedia page for him and thought the name was appropriate). I'm writing to discuss with you revisions that you made on this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Combs). Firstly, thank you very much for taking out the hardcore language used to describe this person. Secondly, could we change the article in moving the final four paragraphs to the top of the essay, starting with: "As of 2017 Combs held appointments at the California Institute of Integral Studies,[2] where he built the program in consciousness studies in 2015,[3] and The Graduate Institute in Connecticut.[4] He also was Professor Emeritus at the University of North Carolina-Asheville.[5] ….” [And so on...]

This would be great, as it wouldn't begin with dyslexia... make sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allan Combs (talk • contribs) 17:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! I'm so sorry about all the kerfuffle over your user name appearing to actually be that person, and I regret that it became your introduction to Wikipedia! Obviously, your well-intentioned name choice led to an unintended effect, and please understand that we really do have immense problems with people coming here and trying to use the website for self-promotion.


 * Before I get to the article, please let me make a strong suggestion about how you can put the problem to rest. You should edit your own user page: User:Allan Combs, so that, at a minimum, it says something like: "I took Allan Combs as my user name, but I am actually someone else." (Of course, you can also add all kinds of other stuff there as well, but please include something like this at the top.) In addition, if the real-life Steve is someone who is personally connected to Dr. Combs, perhaps a collaborator or a friend or whatever, you have no obligation to actually identify yourself, but you should indicate that some connection exists. The best way to do that is shown at WP:DCOI, in the part about the "UserboxCOI template". The instructions are there, and just let me know if you need any help. If instead you are simply someone with an interest in Dr. Combs, you can skip that part, and I will then remove the COI material on Talk:Allan Combs. This stuff is important, for two reasons. First, there is the issue of self-promotion, and second, there is another issue, of people impersonating other people on Wikipedia. These are both big problems (alas), and editors will continue to jump to conclusions if you don't make things very clear at User:Allan Combs (which will change from red to blue once you start editing it). Finally, if anyone is paying you or otherwise compensating you for editing on behalf of Dr. Combs, you absolutely must follow the instructions at WP:COIPAYDISCLOSE or you will be in violation of the website's Terms of Use and will inevitably get kicked off! Thanks!


 * OK then, now to what you asked about the article itself. In the future, the best place to raise those kinds of issues would be at Talk:Allan Combs, and not here at my own user talk page, because it's not like I'm the sole arbitrator of anything about the article. But in direct answer to your question, I'm not very enthusiastic about changing the paragraph order in that way, because it seems to me to make better sense to keep that material in chronological order. An alternative approach would be to move the dyslexia part to a separate section, but that might actually make it more prominent. As it is, I'm pretty sure that it's presented in a positive way, consistent with what Dr. Combs writes about himself, so I don't see it as a problem. To get someone else's opinion, the article talk page is the first place to go. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * , I know you meant no harm but you really really need to change your user name to something different to avoid confusion. In fact your username is a direct violation of Wikipedia's policy on user names, viz. "Do not edit under a name that is likely to imply that you are (or are related to) a specific, identifiable person, unless it is your real name." You don't have a long history yet so changing at this early point isn't too big a deal.
 * It's a fairly simple process (in fact I changed my user name not too long ago). If you have a confirmed email address associated with your account you can go to Special:GlobalRenameRequest, otherwise changing username/Simple.
 * Let me (or Tryptofish) know if you have any questions. And welcome aboard! Editing Wikipedia can be a lot of fun. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:22, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Boris! I had completely forgotten about that. Yes, that is something more that you need to do. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:41, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Devastating
It's true, Tryp...😢 I found a tribute. I am heartbroken! Atsme 📞📧 22:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I feel the same way. Yesterday, Roxy showed me an obit that really left no doubt in my mind at all, but I wanted to be extra careful lest I start a rumor. I remember that Chris had said that he had many difficult health problems. I enjoyed editing with him, and I feel heartbroken too. --Tryptofish (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Upon review...

...of this edit, I did not intend for my comment to mean that I ever did wish such a thing...maybe once I did over the course of many years...but sometimes text fails to relay one's true feelings with accuracy. My apologies if you took offense, and thank you for making us aware of your concerns. Atsme 📞📧 18:48, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, not at all. It never even crossed my mind! I instantly understood the spirit in which you said it, and I agree with you entirely. Please don't have any concerns about it.
 * While we're at it, I know that we had some disagreements during those recent content discussions that were sort-of related to US politics. I hope that you did not have too much wiki-stress during all those discussions. And please rest assured that I continue to regard us as good wiki-friends. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:24, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * PS: I just saw this: . It gave me a much-needed smile. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * 🤗 Always...Atsme 📞📧 00:52, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Section break

 * I, for one, have grown a deep and abiding hatred for over those discussions. Not because of the politics, mind, but because she dared to impinge upon the captaincy of Picard, and to suggest that that half-witted space slut, Kirk to be his better. Unforgivable.  ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  17:02, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Which brings us even closer together, especially considering life would be absolutely boring were it not for the unsurpassed competency of the handsome young Captain Kirk, and of course, the entertainment value brought to us by those still Klingon to the Picard delusion. Warp speed, Mr. Sulu. Atsme 📞📧 17:32, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Well,, my talk page is nothing if not colorful. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to say that's the first time I've ever heard "competent" and "Kirk" in the same sentence without a great deal of sarcasm. ;) ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  22:16, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Careful now, Atsme knows William Shatner personally! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:19, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Great editing tool!
For anyone watching here who does not also watch 's talkpage, do please see: User talk:EEng. Try it, you'll like it! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Although, testing it on this edit, it seems to have introduced an error in the changes, that is not visible for "show changes" alone. Makes it look like I deleted the top material of this talk page, which I didn't. Hmm... --Tryptofish (talk) 23:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * One of the two known bugs -- see User talk:Writ Keeper/Scripts/previewAndDiff.js -- is that when doing an "Add section" to a talk page, the diff is nonsense (when you think about it there's nothing to diff against, so it gets confused). Completely harmless, however.  E Eng  23:45, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yup, great minds think alike. I just saw that report and added to it. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)


 * In summary, Mr. Tryptofish, would you still recommend the gadget to your friends?  E Eng  23:50, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's Dr. Tryptofish, and I do not have any friends. But, yes. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:53, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It is quite a good tool. Adding my endorsement here because The Greatest Talk Page on Wikipedia (TM) won't load on mobile. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:58, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't even think it could be loaded on a supertanker. But let's give the poor curator a little credit: he did archive some of it today. Every little bit (byte?) counts. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:01, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't get it. I'm not seeing any difference in Show preview, or when I look at diffs and I hardly ever use Show changes so I wouldn't know the difference. Is there a button somewhere to turn it on? Atsme 📞📧 03:52, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * First, just make sure that you have added the code to User:Atsme/common.js. When that is done (perhaps you have to log out and log back in), it should add a button at the bottom of the edit screen that is labeled "Show preview and changes", which will come after the buttons for "Save changes", "Show preview", and "Show changes", but before "Cancel". But if you hardly ever use "Show changes", then it probably won't be that useful to you, since you can still use "Show preview". Myself, I'm finding that I'm so set in my editing ways that I have to keep reminding myself to use the new button instead of the old ones. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:15, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Atsme, from it seems you don't understand what to do. Go to User:Atsme/common.js and add this at the bottom:

You might then need to leave your browser and come back in. Then, like Tfish says, look below the edit window for the new button.

I might gently add that if you're not used to using Show changes, that might explain a lot. This feature makes it so that seeing the changes with the preview is as easy as just seeing the preview. I've found already that it's reduced the number of occasional "Dang, I should have checked again before saving that" incidents.  E Eng  22:16, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I cached in. It all works wonderfully. ‼ ❤Atsme 📞📧 11:37, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's Wikipedia! Your digital ATM! --Tryptofish (talk) 16:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Note
My long-time computer is showing signs of being on its last legs, and it will be several days before I have a new one. If I'm absent from editing for a while, that will be why, but I'll be back when I'm back up and running. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * how many days is "several"? Atsme 📞📧 22:26, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, probably between Tuesday and Thursday, depending upon delivery. So far, my old computer is still breathing (which is why I can reply to you!), but I'm trying not to push it too hard, so I'm editing a bit lightly. I'll make a celebratory announcement here when I'm back to normal. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:00, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
 * For anyone following along at home, the new computer was just delivered. I'll try to have it set up tomorrow. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:16, 13 September 2017 (UTC)


 * After a great deal of fussing around with the new PC, I have finally switched over to it entirely. Gone, the decade-old Pentium machine running Windows Vista. Now, I am editing with a Windows 10 machine using a dual-core i7 processor – and wow is it peppier! In fact, I even went to 's talkpage, and now that actually loads, well, at an almost normal speed for me. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm running an overclocked Core i7 7700k with 32GB of overclocked DDR4 memory, an overclocked MSI GTX 1050 set up as a coprocessor (with dual SLI Gigabyte GTX 1080's for video), a RAID10 SSD storage solution and a pair of bonded 150Mbps cable connections and I still feel like I'm on AOL's browser in 1994 when I load his talk page. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  02:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: Those are only my real computer specs when I'm daydreaming. Though I do still love my rig. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  02:31, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I've felt overclocked my entire life. { --Tryptofish (talk) 17:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Till
Looks like it's time. thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 23:47, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean option 3 at Talk:Emmett Till. Yes, per the section just above this one on my talk page, I've been a bit preoccupied lately, but now that you reminded me, I agree that we might as well go ahead with it. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * So I did. Thanks for the reminder. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:05, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Prior discussion of requiring those involved in paid editing to link to the accounts they are using for advertising work
As you keep track of these discussions, wondering if you know of any prior discussions? I vaguely remember one but forget were it was. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't know. do you? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:31, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't remember any on this point. There has been a ton of discussion about whether one editor can post a link about another, but i've never seen this -- namely requiring editors to link to their own ads. Jytdog (talk) 05:07, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks!
Hi Tryptofish, thank you for your comments at my RfA. Your support is much appreciated! ansh 666 21:15, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Ds notice
I just saw this edit. Is there a DS alert I missed somewhere after July 2016 (when it appears to me they were last notified)? Unless I'm forgetting a sanction in the GMO topic, it seems like they would fall in the needing a notification within 12 months to be "aware" Kingofaces43 (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Woops, my mistake, and I just self-reverted. I had forgotten about the 12-month thing. Sorry. By the way, when you have time, you may want to look at a related discussion at Talk:Genetically modified organism. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:47, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * No worries. I saw that GMO discussion earlier too, but in the spirit of WP:NOTFORUM, I didn't comment yet as it didn't look like there was anything else to add except that I agree that the discussion is not going anywhere based on content. I'll chime in if I see anything pop up needing comment though. Basically, the sporadic fringe viewpoints were already accounted for in the last RfC, so nothing has really changed in terms of the totality of the literature. Kingofaces43 (talk) 00:51, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, agreed. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:53, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm still laughing!
Rip roaring! Atsme 📞📧 01:59, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm just here to keep serving them up. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:42, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

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Interesting find...
An editor who deserves a well-deserved kudos!! Saw his name in this article defending the "take over" of our pedia. I rarely, if ever, read anything on that site unless forced to do so, but I saw mention of it on another editor's TP and couldn't resist. Atsme 📞📧 01:17, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Alas, it fails WP:RS, bigly. I feel like I'm acting as a go-between here, but I know that he knows about it, because it was discussed at his user talk just after it came out. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:51, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

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Chris Sherwin
Hey, Tryp - I can't seem to get Google Scholar to work on this iPad and I need to get the indexes for C.M. Sherwin, also try Chris M. Sherwin, or C. Sherwin. Can you help? You contributed a bit to his article (enough so this isn't canvassing) so you might want to take a look at the article & the TP where a comment was made about memorializing. I also commented on the noms TP but he wasn't very receptive so off to AfD he went. Not sure why he zeroed in on this one to delete instead of trying to expand it. A few projects were notified, but not the ones that shared Sherwin's field of academics. His focus area for research included turkeys, laboratory animals, veterinary biology, zoology (did some work with elephants), and entomology. I added a bit more to his article but the science is a bit out of my league, and I don't want to add more info to the article that makes things worse. I already screwed up by wikilinking to the wrong Hume fellowship but have since fixed it. Hope you can spare a bit of time to help. Atsme 📞📧 20:51, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * lol. I don't think and  is what WP:APPNOTE had in mind, what you claim is "enough so this isn't canvassing". This looks like CANVASS to me. So we're clear, I  "until future journalism will provide the necessary sourcing", out of consideration for you. I had hoped we could continue to get along. I can only assume you didn't take me seriously. If you like, starting going through my talk page and invite my fan club to that AfD, too. Tell everyone about my accusation about these MEMORIAL articles.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:06, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, Chris, I really am surprised by your behavior. I always thought we got along well but your taunting me now while making false allegations of canvassing tells me you may not only be misunderstanding WP:ACADEMICS, you may also be confused about what constitutes canvassing. What exactly have I done to you to make you zero-in on me like this? Are you bored and just need something to do? Atsme 📞📧 21:39, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * First of all, Chris Troutman, please drop this nonsense about canvassing, and if you cannot, then please go away from my talk page. There is nothing wrong with asking another editor who worked on an article to help with editing the article, and as for the AfD, all I have to do is look at my watchlist, where the page is on my watchlist, to see that there is an AfD, so the talk page notice is not telling me anything that I did not know.
 * Now for the difficult part. And really, this is something I have been dreading ever since the bio page was created. The fact is, as much as I am personally fond of the editor, the page really does fail our notability guidelines. It's not even a borderline case. I don't think that there is any information that I could possibly track down that would change that. This really is difficult for me, and I am hating having this discussion, but I have to go with our policies and guidelines, not with my personal wishes. I'm going to be silent at the AfD for a day or two, but that's just the way it is. I am very, very, very sorry. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:00, 21 October 2017 (UTC) Struck. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I just want to say I share in some of dreaded feeling when I saw the article created. I had my disagreements with DrChrissy and had mixed feelings about them as an editor (mostly subject dependent), but I originally did not want to be involved in the BLP discussions at all because there can be tensions with recently deceased Wikipedians getting articles and WP:RIP. Sometimes tensions can run high with editors closely associated with the editor (an odd territory for WP:COI) among other issues, so I've been left with a bad taste in my mouth in the few comments or edits I have made on it when I've tried to address issues. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.


 * All in all, I still don't really know what I think of the whole situation except that I would rather have people just let it be rather than make DrChrissy the focal point of an article now. The thing I would dread most if I kicked the bucket and my real life identity was found out is that those even somewhat close to me here would write a BLP (I'd be yelling at them about COI from my grave) or having disputes related to the page because someone got overzealous either on trying to include as much information as possible or pushing hard to have it deleted resulting in conflicts. That's why I would personally much rather see BLP articles not made at all of deceased Wikipedians once their identities are known (or more realistically at least a moratorium or until someone who wasn't associated with the editor picks up on the BLP subject "organically"). Kingofaces43 (talk) 23:05, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand where you are coming from there, but hey, it's the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and I prefer not to dwell upon editor motivations when it comes to evaluating article quality and subject notability, unless there's an actual policy violation going on. Personally, I would not have started the page, and I don't think anyone would have, except that people close to him chose to make very public who he was. In any case, the page exists now, and I've expressed my opinions in favor of keeping at the AfD. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Well, Tryp, I respectfully disagree - he is published, cited in peer-reviewed science journals, and I finally got Google Scholar to work, and the results for C.M. Sherwin = 2526 citations, h index is 31, i10 index is 54. Per WP:ACADEMICS, he meets the criteria for #1, #4 & #7 since the citations include reputable peer-reviewed journals. He was a member of the work group that drafted the scientific risk assessment that Animal Health and Welfare adopted as their scientific opinion for the Aspects of the biology and welfare of animals used for experimental and other scientific purposes” published in the 2005 EFSA Journal. You might also want to look at his "Selected Works" on his bio. He wrote an entire chapter in the Handbook for Universities Federation for Animal Welfare among his numerous other published works (100+?), and he chaired the Ethics Committee for the International Society for Applied Ethology Council so he easily passes 1 of the criteria if not 2, possibly even 3. And don't forget - WP:Academics states: Some academics may not meet any of these criteria, but may still be notable for their academic work. It is important to note that it is very difficult to make clear requirements in terms of numbers of publications or their quality: the criteria, in practice, vary greatly by field. Also, this proposal sets the bar fairly low, which is natural: to a degree, academics live in the public arena, trying to influence others with their ideas. It is natural that successful ones should be considered notable. Gotta go - later! Atsme 📞📧 23:28, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that there could be a case that trying to change my mind here is canvassing. Please use those arguments at the AfD page instead. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:35, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It was already in the AfD and in the article and on the TP. I know you well enough to know there's no way to persuade you either way - I would not even try. You will do as you will do. I simply asked for your help with the article, not the AfD. Over and out. Atsme 📞📧 00:51, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I wondered if you would comment, here or there, about this diff. Thanks. -Roxy the dog. bark 08:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I commented there. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:54, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Hey, Tryp - I just wanted to say thank you for your contributions to the biography and that your collaboration was very much appreciated. Atsme 📞📧 16:01, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for that. I appreciate it very much. And much credit is really due to you, as you have really been the major force behind making the page worthwhile. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:45, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Wow...research has come a long way...
The one-eyed cyclops...and no...not what you're thinking. Atsme 📞📧 03:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that – very interesting reading! (And yes, that's what first came into my mind.) It looks like we already have a page on Cyclopamine that covers this material (which is too bad, because my mind, after that other thing, quickly lit up with DYK possibilities). --Tryptofish (talk) 20:54, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 😂 I can only imagine. Atsme 📞📧 02:30, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi, actually I do want to create a polyploid pumpkin because the interspecies hybrid I crossed a few years ago only produces empty seed hulls. With only a few seeds left from the original crossing, I am going to try and soak them in a colchicine solution (under a fume hood, don't worry). Since I can't order colchicine in my country without a prescription I will need to find a way to extract it from colchicum bulbs. In one of the papers you have provided there was a reference to this book. The article on Wikipedia is properly sourced now, thanks for your help with the colchicum article. 143.176.56.102 (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Great, I'm happy that I was able to help with those sources. As for the pumpkin, that's certainly interesting, and very timely as we approach Halloween! Good luck! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Tricks are treats...

 * Well that tapped my funny bone but you need to flesh that joke out a bit so that you leave your Halloween audience feeling  putrefied rather than  petrified. The later just creates stony silence where as the former leaves a stink – and what do kids like most the most? Aspro (talk) 18:18, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Feel free to continue the thread, Aspro. Some of the discussions on Tryp's TP can be pure pun-ishment. SMirC-laugh.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 18:38, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the scare quotes everyone! And here is a fishy gallery of terror for you all! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:29, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


 * And a Halloween zombie-disguised Trypto. — Paleo  Neonate  – 20:40, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I look like when I wake up in the morning. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Me, too, before SMirC-coffeebreak.svg!! Great collage! I was a bit slow catching the common name 'blue devil" for the blue damselfish. I should've known off-the-bat, especially after all the times I've had to fight them off while shooting reef macros. I call them u/w Chihuahas cuz they make you yell ¡Ay Chihuahua! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 16:49, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * In aquarium keeping, I've always heard of them as "Fiji devils". Kind of ironic, in that one would think damselfish to be more, well, ladylike (apparently as much a stereotype in fish as in humans). Scott Michael (diver, photographer, and book author) once wrote something that I have always found very memorable: "They can be just about bullet-proof in terms of being durable aquarium fish, and that's a good thing, because you will eventually want to shoot them." (not an exact quote, taken from memory) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Can't see the point in aquarium keeping. As a kid I had several glass tanks close together but never succeeded in getting them to breed any offspring, neither square nor rectangular ! Aspro (talk) 23:11, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's certainly a matter of personal likes and dislikes. I came into it rather late in life, starting because I find that looking at the animals is both soothing/relaxing for me and also very interesting as a way to closely observe natural behavior. It's pretty common for people who first try it as children to lose interest, particularly when, because of not knowing about the nitrogen cycle, they put the fish into the tank too soon and bad things happen. As for raising fry, it's never been a personal interest for me, but it's a high priority for a lot of hobbyists, some of whom sell them. It's also very much a matter of which species one chooses, and of knowing the conditions that they require for spawning, which are more exacting than their requirements for simply living as adults. By far the easiest kinds to breed at home are the freshwater livebearers, such as guppies, swordtails, and platies. It's more difficult to stop them from breeding (not that one would want to) than to get them to breed. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:53, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * No ! Not breeding the aqueous bio-life within (that happens spontaneously and without intervention) but trying to breed tanks !  Couldn't even manage to hatch their little transparent eggs, commonly referred  to by experts like yourself as goldfish bowls - even though I tried to incubate them at every available temperature when I was only 4 years old,... Now.  Have I earned a trick or treat?Bat icon.svg Aspro (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That's because you have to grow pumpkins in it... — Paleo  Neonate  – 02:01, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * LOL! OK, I'm trouting myself with a flounder! Looks like I took you too seriously, woops! Yeah, you would think that with all that see-through, not to mention all the silicone, they would feel more sexy. I'm not sure if this is true, but I've heard that acrylic tanks are more promiscuous than glass. Maybe you just have to buy the tanks, and then give them at least 18 years to mature. Yours might have been too young. I've heard of some tank breeders filling them with vodka instead of water, but I consider that unethical. And Paleo, it looks like you are out of your gourd! --Tryptofish (talk) 15:36, 2 November 2017 (UTC)


 * As an aside: The voiceless palatal stop in the human voice gets muted under helium. So, to a deep-sea marine biologist breathing helium, s/he may be misconstrued as being    un ethical  due to familiarity  of the muting of the C. Yet, at  at sea-level... Vodka  is considered  to be  an ethanol, rather than  a  un-ethical.  Mind you having said that, if such a tank of vodka contains also Hoplostethus atlanticus, one has enough  Vodka & Orange cocktail to let the whole neighborhood partake. Surly such a gesture of generosity is ethiKal ? ;¬) Aspro (talk) 15:49, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm impressed! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:26, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Today only - Nov 1st
Today if you add your age + year of your birth you will get 2017 - it only happens once in 1000th years!!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 03:20, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I was traveling yesterday, so I missed it. But I do remember when it happened 1000 years ago. Seems like it was only yesterday. Wait a minute – doesn't year of birth plus years elapsed always equal the current year? Or are you doing something fancy with days and months? --Tryptofish (talk) 15:42, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I was actually hoping one of my scholarly collaborators could provide a punchline I could use on FB (that post has gone viral). SMirC-chuckle.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:54, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There must be something magic about this formula: I tried 10 times with a different result each time; then I ran it in a loop, passed it through a delta encoder, reverted the waveform and listened to it: a strange voice was calling my name...[Humor] — Paleo  Neonate  – 22:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I broke out the ouigi board because I really wanted answers to the mystery. I posted the results of that discussion on User talk:David Eppstein. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:58, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I've always hated Facebook, and now I have one more reason to do so. --Tryptofish (talk) 13:54, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The way I look at it - having more than one billion folks preoccupied with FB may be reducing the potential for increased vandalism on WP - and possibly even a reduction in astro numerology articles. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Oh, indeed!
Your sympathy for Dr. Sherwin and the metaphorical horse being beaten to death is much appreciated. Thank you for your level head. I found it interesting that somehow the equestrian cabal (hmmm... are we a cabal yet?) is utilized as some kind of negation of intent. Sigh... I think I actually first encountered DrChrissy when I was working on Tail (horse) and the content on the (mostly) past practice of docking horses' tails. From there I did some collaboration on other articles that resulted in one of DrChrissy's very useful articles, Overview of discretionary invasive procedures on animals. Yes, poor critters all the way around, metaphoric and otherwise. Montanabw (talk) 17:13, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, Montanabw...are you just horsing around or are there real requirements for official cabalism? (Egads! Add 2 "n's" and an "i" and it puts us in an entirely different realm.) If we qualify as a cabal, can I make a special template for it? (I actually don't make the templates, I design them and then ask the experts to make them for me, both of whom I greatly appreciate, even though one has lost his way as a fan of Picard; both editors are s here). There are no editors I can name off-hand that are more level headed than Tryp or that, once you have their undivided attention, I would trust to be as neutral and/or openminded, besides you and a few others I have had the pleasure of collaborating with over the years. I can't think of anything more productive or as significant in building a quality encyclopedia than editors who can and are willing to collaborate...and I'll add, that what I've learned over the years tells me that those who are not willing, typically have a hidden agenda. It's just that simple. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 20:02, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:There is no cabal, so there cannot be a method for creating WP:Cabals, and even if they existed, the method would certainly not be as minimal as adding your idea to the WP:List of cabals. ;-)  WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:41, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh my!! Giant hugs to WAIDH - I added the cabal label to my TP, and made a request to join the list of cabals. Could not have done it without the help of Montanabw and the insight of WhatamIdoing...which reminds me...what AM I doing here? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:08, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I wonder what I am doing here, all the time! I'm not sure whether I have a level head, or a flat head. Maybe I have a prion disease. But seriously, I think it's valuable when there is a content dispute, to look for a way to split the difference. Of course, sometimes there are situations where there is a matter of principle that should not be compromised. But my experience has been that compromise is advisable a lot more frequently than other editors believe. Anyway, if you ask me to join your cabal, I'm going to say nay. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:24, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Uhm...a Tryptofish "no" would sound more like
 * [[File:Water bubbles chortling.ogg]]
 * <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * . --Tryptofish (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, so that's what it sounded like to you? (rug burns!) No, no, no - my audio link had nothing to do with GERD and everything to do with underwater bubbles where fishes live. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:34, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Fish live in the water, not in the bubbles. { --Tryptofish (talk) 21:41, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Spoken like a true aquarium aficionado who hasn't experienced the sounds of a true underwater environment (unless you stick your head in the fish tank) where you can listen to the sounds of water passing over the thin walls of a fish's gills, allowing dissolved oxygen to move into the blood and travel to the fish's cells, which then produces carbon dioxide that the fish releases as fart bubbles into the water column. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:14, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I only stick other people's heads into fish tanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I still recommend pumpkins instead — Paleo Neonate  – 22:15, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've also stuck people's heads into pumpkins. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:39, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Speaking of heads, a heads-up to my talk page participants: I will soon archive the whole talkpage, prior to going on my annual Wiki-Break, at the Society for Neuroscience meeting. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Have fun, — Paleo Neonate  – 23:42, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * My, my - doesn't time fly when you're having fun?! Keep having it. The holidays are upon us!! I've got a cattle round-up to attend the week after Thanksgiving. Thousands of acres and hundreds of head of cattle need their annual boosters, ear tagging, and branding. Hope to get some keeper photos of the action!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:07, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I feel like making a joke about attendees at the meeting and cattle... Anyway, that sounds pretty exciting! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Happy Holiday Greetings

 * Thanks! And a happy holiday to you too! I've just been mulling over the ArbCom candidates, figuring who to support in my annual voter's guide, and the meal you brought me here is a welcome respite. Actually, my family has historically been quite nonconformist about Thanksgiving, typically having duck instead of turkey, although this year I'm making a turkey neck stew that will probably be... interesting. (I recently got a pressure cooker, which I love, and am constantly looking for things to make in it. Tripe is on the agenda.) --Tryptofish (talk) 02:51, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * With honey? (sorry, it was too difficult to find it in English.<abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;">Face-smile.svg  "Tripes de sanglier frites dans de la graisse d'urus" means "Wild boar tripes fried in auroch's fat").  — Paleo  Neonate  – 03:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * With poisonings and orgies, no less! I think I'll pass on that one. I'm thinking more like a slightly simplified version of tripes à la mode de Caen. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No, no, no!! You city folk need a REAL tripe recipe, and Tryp, lionfish are edible. They are DEEEE-LISH!!! Come visit my little island in the Dutch Caribbean, and I'll make sure you get the best prepared lionfish you ever et. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * City folks, me? But that does kinda look like chicken-fried tripe (and not well suited to a pressure cooker). Yes, I actually knew about eating lionfish – a good solution to where they have been introduced and are causing ecological disruption. But don't try to swallow one whole. (Then again, don't try to swallow a turkey whole, either.) --Tryptofish (talk) 23:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, my - that is getting into dangerous territory. DO NOT make EEng or Martin aware of your last comment. Over and out. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:27, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Point well taken. EEng and Martin: please don't read this. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:42, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Recently someone sent me this video link. — Paleo Neonate  – 00:39, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I lived in Chevy Chase (you can guess whether or not it was that one) when I worked at NIH. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:00, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's so much fun to read threads like this during Happy Hour. I'm treating rug burns after watching the Chevy Chase video. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:43, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Shameless promotion
User:Tryptofish/ACE2017. Vote early and often! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:52, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

COI
I was about to make a new comment at Wikipedia_talk:Conflict_of_interest when closed it. I see his attempt at gathering some opinion as perfectly reasonable and clearly understandable. Unfortunately, there is a popular misconception that all WP:Request for comment have to be a vote on something. I have worked closely with Jytdog for several months because we were largely instrumental in bringing some test cases to bear. This has demonstrated that whatever anyone thinks, some serious consideration should be made to define COI more tightly and if necessary, convert it to a policy. Whether people would respect it more is probably beyond the point, but policies trump guidelines and it's therefore easier to enact on them. I'm sure Jyt is only trying to get feedback so that a major RfC proposal could be carefully drafted. Like me however, he is beginning to get frustrated when his efforts get constantly nipped in the bud, and I would be very disappointed if we were no longer able to count with his collaboration on these issues. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note Kudpung. Other people can do what they want at those documents. I will work on other stuff. Jytdog (talk) 04:12, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I think that there has been way too much drama about this, and my top priority now is simply getting things back on a happier track. I'm understanding Kudpung's message to me as a friendly attempt to explain things and patch things up, and whatever Jytdog thinks of me, I have no ill will towards him.

Let's take a calm and factual look at what really happened:
 * I said:


 * and a little later I said:

There's nothing there to get worked up about. I didn't nip anything in the bud. When one opens an RfC one has to expect editors to respond, and there is no right to expect that everyone will agree with you. There was nothing there that was a reason to think that the RfC needed to end. There was nothing there that was unfriendly to Jytdog. There was nothing there that was unfriendly to what Jytdog was trying to accomplish. And there was no reason there for Jytdog to feel compelled to stop collaborating on the COI topic.

And if it was this upsetting to simply "get feedback so that a major RfC proposal could be carefully drafted", then imagine what would happen when the major RfC actually takes place. I was giving feedback, and I was just one of the editors responding. And I'm in favor of making it a policy!

It wasn't necessary for Jytdog to immediately close and archive the RfC. It could have continued, and continued to get responses. There was no reason to conclude that the community will never agree to raise it to a policy.

Jytdog did not simply close it, but posted that I "have damaged our relationship" and then called me "arrogant" at his user talk. That's unjustified. I think that Jytdog is an excellent and valued member of the editing community. He also has issues with anger management and impulse control, but WP:NOTTHERAPY. I have no ill will towards him.

Jytdog, you have some very good ideas about prior review, and you should feel free to go back and propose those. I expect that they will be well-received.

Anyway, it's only a website. Peace. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:54, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

ANI Experiences survey
Beginning on November 28, 2017, the Wikimedia Foundation Community health initiative (Safety and Support and Anti-Harassment Tools team) will be conducting a survey to en.wikipedia contributors on their experience and satisfaction level with the Administrator’s Noticeboard/Incidents. This survey will be integral to gathering information about how this noticeboard works - which problems it deals with well, and which problems it struggles with.

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Thank you on behalf of the Support & Safety and Anti-Harassment Tools Teams, Patrick Earley (WMF) talk 21:12, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Poor goat!
My new favorite talk page heading is: Education noticeboard/Archive 18. Actually, a serious matter and I really don't mean to make fun of the editor who posted it, but, well, it gets my goat! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:23, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Mister wiki case has been accepted
You were recently listed as a party to or recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct of Mister Wiki editors. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct of Mister Wiki editors/Evidence. Please add your evidence by December 15, 2017, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct of Mister Wiki editors/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Kostas20142 (talk) 21:34, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

 * Whoopee! I already voted, and now I get to vote again! { --Tryptofish (talk) 19:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Early and often, as they say. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:29, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hardly fair. None of all my accounts have got a voter message yet! Bishzilla has gone ahead and voted anyway — it would be a brave scrutineer that tried to stop her — but the rest of us are waiting patiently. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:50, 3 December 2017 (UTC).


 * Great to see you both here! You know, when I checked the voter log to make sure that my vote was recorded, I saw that it was the Zilla who had voted, and I was quite amused by that. But I don't think that there was a voter guide this year, which is a pity. (Although I think that all other voter guides should just be soft redirects to mine!) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I just looked at my watchlist, and it's lit up with these messages on the talk pages of ineligible voters. Oh, well. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:08, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

My new holiday wishes....
some of us can relate to, or maybe they can't. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:23, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That guy is hilarious! If I remember correctly, you said that sometime around now, you would be doing some kind of cattle roundup that sounds intimidating to little old me. Have a good time with that (maybe retroactively if I'm late saying this)! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:33, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I was admiring the photos on your user page earlier today, and I noticed the Little Nemo cartoon with its mention of my, um, alter ego. I don't know why I missed it before. But that antique cartoon is really quite an artifact. In fact, it reminded me of William Blake. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:37, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a thought-provoking cartoon, isn't it? Interesting that you thought of Blake, although I can see why. My first thoughts were of Charles Dickens. So...how was your conference? Hope it went well, that it met your expectations and was as equally productive as it was fun. On my end, the cattle roundup happened on schedule but sadly I wasn't part of it. Clumsy me...a few days before we were scheduled to leave, I tripped over the electrical cord that was charging my laptop, and became the recipient of a much different electrical stimuli - pain!! It wasn't the kind of trip I was planning, either. I pulled my Sartorius muscle, Medial collateral ligament and bruised the upper Joint capsule of my right knee which found the floor first. *sigh* Scuba diving is so much safer and easier than computer work. I'm just now able to walk somewhat normal again. As for the roundup, well...I'll run out of knees before we run out of roundups so I'll just have to wait until next spring, unless I'm back on the island enjoying a tiny little section of the beautiful blue Caribbean in an area we call "the aquarium". <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:56, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm so sorry about the digitally-induced pain, too bad WP doesn't offer workperson's compensation. The SfN meeting was very good, including some indications that other labs have picked up on findings from my lab. Although I often felt like I was the oldest person there! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:48, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The picture was in response to ^^^^ - 🤣 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 16:45, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Understood, no problem! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Please...
Strike your comment at AN/I as it was not correct - Bish did not block or TB me. She issued a warning on my TP where you commented below it saying it was fair. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:49, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that. I said that it could happen in the event of a repetition in the future. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:58, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Apologies...I misread the question, not the answer. SMirC-silent.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:01, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That's perfectly alright, nothing to worry about here. I fully understand how this has been a stressful experience for you, and I'm sympathetic. But as we very recently discussed at your talk, this particular cause of stress is one where the best solution is simply to take a break. I believe that WP has too much page creation about breaking news, but it is what it is. I suggest just steering clear of any content about persons in the news. The topic is pretty much a guaranteed butt-reaming, and it's better just to leave it for someone else, and there always is a someone else. Have a happy holiday season! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:08, 12 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Tryp - but regardless of the topic...I focus on PAGs. I see topics as a pragmatist when I'm writing or reviewing - years of training allows me to do just that. I don't suffer with OCD, but I do focus on technicalities when writing/reviewing. I just asked Bish on her TP to help me understand how local consensus overrides policy. The AfD to merge is governed by wide scale consensus. According to Consensus, it clearly states "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope. WikiProject advice pages, information pages and template documentation pages have not formally been approved by the community through the policy and guideline proposal process, thus have no more status than an essay." I was reprimanded for following merge consensus - nothing was merged - local consensus determined that deleting the merge I executed was appropriate. There was no discussion to merge anything - the discussion was to delete everything. I just want someone to point me to the policy that says we can do that because I sure as hell don't want to find myself in the same position again, and if I happen to be on the flip side of that coin, I don't want to get in trouble for doing something that I can't back-up by citing policy. That's all folks. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:36, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative here, but perhaps you should consider that, when pretty much everyone else believes that the PAGs mean something different than what you think, there comes a point where it gets unlikely that so many other editors have all gotten it wrong. There's a good essay about this at WP:1AM. But anyway, it's never up to an individual editor to make sure that PAGs are being followed. It's a community, and there is always someone else who will speak up for what is right. And sometimes with rapidly changing events, it's just a matter of waiting a while for others to mellow out, because there's never a deadline. --Tryptofish (talk) 14:25, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I summed it up on my TP a while back: ‘’On Wikipedia, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people, and simply let them be wrong.’’ I just need to be reminded of it from time to time. 🤗 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 15:32, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sounds good! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:24, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 14
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Uhmmm...
Is there cause for concern when my my 30-day TP view stats are only 149 views shy of 's? . His page is far more entertaining and witty, and should be far ahead of mine...WAAAY FAR ahead in page views. I thought it best to bring it up here since you're the one who started me looking at pageview spikes. It appears EEng's visitors are acting more like trees and leaving before the download because they don't have the patience to wait for it. Maybe we should design a low voltage banner for the top of his TP...something like - Wait for it..... <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 18:13, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I never treat page views as a source of concern, just as a source of "wow, that's a lot of people who are interested!", which I consider to be a good thing. There tend to be spikes after a drama board drama, or notice at Wikipediocracy. If you're getting a lot of views, but not a lot of angry messages, then that's no reason to worry. Just bask in your fame. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:35, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Loved your answer, but my concern was more for EEng losing traction. 😂 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:57, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Aha! Those of us who know and love know that he has almost no traction at all! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:13, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not since I lost my grip. <b style="color: red;">E</b><b style="color: blue;">Eng</b> 20:44, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You just reminded me of a Maxine joke: "Don't Mix Your Meds" Getting old is so hard at times. Yesterday I got Preparation H mixed up with Poli-Grip. Now, I talk like an asshole. ...but my gums don't itch. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 03:09, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like both of you are on the skids! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Talking of page views, I have just added a page view graph to Talk:Chris Sherwin. The fact that there where plus two thousand views in Oct makes it appear that it is little viewed. Yet many articles have these off peak page views. You may delete it if you wish. P.S. Quantity does not equal quality – unless you're Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. Aspro (talk) 20:18, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I saw that you did that, and then I did the same for my voter guide. I had noticed that kind of graphic somewhere else recently, and had been thinking of making use of the template. I think it's a very interesting feature. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:25, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. I think I'll use it too. That way, I might be able to hopefully (?) convince my psychiatrist that I am really being watched and followed and not just paranoid!... Keep proscribing me the Red Pills of WP and not the Blue ones offered by Fox News ;-) 21:06, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, - your graph was quite helpful. Would you be so kind as to add a similar graph to Alligator gar or show me how? I helped prep the alligator gar article for GA & DYK in 2014, but I can't see any stats before July 2015. Do you have a magic viewer for that? I see where pageviews spiked in July 2016 but not sure why. The original DYK template dates back to July 2014, and while I have a vague recollection of the pageviews being nothing to write home about, they weren't exactly embarrassing. Any insight you can provide regarding the numbers will be greatly appreciated.<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:06, 17 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Afraid I don't have any magic viewer (got some magic mushrooms that make see things but I don't think they count). Think the stats were due to the efforts of a WP editor's own private efforts, done without the support of the WMF and thus had problems in maintaining it and July 2015 may have been the date of creation so wouldn't go back before then anyway. As to showing you how, I have added this magic Wiki code '''

''' to Alligator gar's talk page to see if this is what you mean. Just cut & past the code to any talk page. P.S. As you seem to know something about animals, what precautions can I take this year, to stop reindeers craping on my roof? Aspro (talk) 01:46, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Give yourself a Christmas present - spend the next week being naughty SMirC-devil.svg. Oh, and so the others won't know why Santa didn't stop at your house, just pretend he did and provide some proof. Buy a bag of chocolate covered raisins, and after you finish-off the cookies and milk that was left for Santa on Christmas Eve, put the raisins in the empty plate and prop the following note up on the empty glass:
 * I jumped from my bed when I heard Santa's call,
 * "Dash away, Dash away, Dash away all.”
 * And then I discovered, when I looked on the roof,
 * Santa and his reindeer were gone in a poof.
 * To the roof I climbed and started to scoop,
 * All of the droppings … “YUCK”, reindeer poop!
 * I had to get rid of it, so I filled-up your sack.
 * Hope you have a Merry Christmas and enjoy your snack!!!”
 * Ho! Ho! Ho! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 02:45, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Slowing down for a drive-by barnstaring, but then got all hyped up about putting the pageview gizmo on the bottom of my user page. HA! What a hoot. I have some advice on getting your user page views up - get involved in lively article talk page discussions and everybody checks you out (in an appropriate fashion). Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ and Merry Christmas 01:39, 17 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Atsme has no trouble in getting involved in lively discussions ;¬) Aspro (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2017 (UTC)


 * And, speaking of pageviews, when I logged in I had a notification that there were 12 new messages on my talk page. I don't think that's happened since that time I was blocked. A lively discussion indeed, thanks all! I suppose this is where I could add an off-color joke about "Santa Claus is coming!", but of course I won't. { --Tryptofish (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Holiday Cheer + a barnstar

 * Thanks! I'm glad to be of help! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:32, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Who ever said “slow as Christmas” needs to change it...

 * Thanks! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Potential changes
Tryp, we tend to get quite a bit of IP activity at Gar, so would you compare what this abstract states about Semionotiformes VS the lede portion of the article that reads: Lepisosteiformes (or Semionotiformes), an ancient holosteian order of ray-finned fish; fossils from this order are known from the Late Jurassic onwards. The PLOS article reads (my bold): "The genera †Pliodetes, †Araripelepidotes, †Lepidotes, †Scheenstia, and †Isanichthys are lepisosteiforms, and not semionotiforms, as previously thought, and these taxa extend the stratigraphic range of the lineage leading to gars back up to the Early Jurassic." The initial change to the lede that added Semionotiformes is here. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:11, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd be glad to help, but it's not clear to me what the question is. Are there some particular IP edits that you want me to look at? And is the question whether Semionotiformes and Lepisosteiformes are two names for the same thing, or are two separate groupings? Or is it whether to change the page from the former to the latter? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:24, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * When you get time, please read the lede and compare it to what the abstract states (which I pointed out above) about gar being lepisosteiforms, and not semionotiforms. Do you think we need to change the lede in the article to support what the PLOS article states and remove references to semionotiformes? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:50, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Short answer: probably not. This is a subject where my prior knowledge has been zero, but I tried to do some searching through the literature, and it looks to me like there are still quite a few sources that keep them in the semionotiformes. It also sounds like some authorities consider the classification to be ambiguous, some consider semionotiformes and lepisosteiforms to be alternative names for the same thing, and some consider semionotiformes to be a loosely-defined term. Here are links to the sources that I found:, , , , and . In some cases, it's necessary to read more than the abstract to find where they talk about it (and others have paywalls that I didn't bother with).
 * Here's my suggestion about what to do with Gar. Option 1 is to leave it as is. Option 2 is to leave the text as is, but cite some of these sources (including the one you found). And Option 3, which is the one I think is the most encyclopedic, is to revise the text a bit to indicate that gars have been classified as either/both of lepisosteiforms and semionotiforms, citing some of these sources. That said, I have to admit that this literature is a bit outside of the range where I feel confident about understanding it. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:43, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Your question to me led to a question of my own, which is now asked and answered at Reference desk/Science. (Worth seeing as well for the humor.) There apparently is a case to be made that semionotiforms are extinct whereas lepisosteiforms are still with us. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:48, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking the time to investigate further - that's why I turned to the brilliant scientist you are and why I believe so many editors respect your judgment. Granted, there are times when the outcome may not be what the OP wants/expects to hear but those instances are what I see as an opportunity to re-evaluate/reconsider one's position, and if warranted, present more evidence if such evidence exists. Sidebar note: "for the humor" is what captured my attention. (j/k) 🤗 FYI - I actually put things on hold (except for the occasional brainstorming about relatively obscure ideas) until after the holidays <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:49, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

An olive branch & holiday wishes!

 * Thank you very much for this message! And, as far as I'm concerned, no olive branch is necessary. Indeed, no hard feelings at my end. I believe that you genuinely thought you were doing the right things at the time, and that you would not intentionally do anything disruptive. Stuff happens, and in my involvement at the workshop page I'm just trying to make sure we get it right. Please rest assured that I hope this will pass. I've found you to be very helpful at SPI, by the way. All the best to you and yours too! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:24, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

 * And thank you too, and best wishes! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:25, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:gold; background-color:lightgreen; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks"> Martinevans123 (Santa's Drop-in Centre) ... sends you ...

... warmest seasonal wishes for ...... Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda.

Hoping that Christmas may bless you with peace, love and understanding... and wishing that you have a good run in 2018!!
 * Thanks Martin, and the same (as well as a long string of consonants!) to you as well. So now I have to ask: is the Furry Day Carol about this or this? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:04, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Haha, not too sure. But, as I'm sure we both know.... Furry Sings the Blues. And here's that cat Edmunds again cnce more with feeling...... and away went Rudolph whizzing like a sabre jet!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As for my run, it's increasingly more of a limp, but anyway, I'll always picture you in my mind in full Furry regalia! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:15, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:20, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Uh-oh! Fish no like cats. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:24, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There's only one way out of this.... cue Robert Petway: . Martinevans123 (talk) 21:44, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Now there's one cool cat! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:50, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here's the lowdown: . --Tryptofish (talk) 22:06, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. Just don't mention Terry Wogan.. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. I'll never say Terry Wogan. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:22, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

HNY

 * Thanks, Paleo! And likewise to you! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:22, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy New Year

 * Thanks, Donner60! I see you around frequently, and appreciate your opinions, and a happy new year to you too! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:24, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Just some ramblings that have being going through my mind
Have no intention of taking this half-baked idea forward yet. Been thinking though, that if DrChrissy was alive today, we would not hesitate to nominate him for a WP t-shirt. That goes for many other outstanding editors that are not with us today. So been thinking.... what about a Wiki Plaque in a similar vein to Blue plaques to be placed in the editor's hall of residences. WP has long shaken off the mantel of amateurism and these  plaques may encourage newbie academics to view WP as something worth spending time on. As to cost: In this day and age with computerized design and manufacture, a plaque (customized to included say he's web and spider) should not cost much more than a t-shirt. English heritage who authorize and erect Blue Plaques require  at least 20 years must have passed since a candidate’s death. Think 2 years for our purposes would suffice. Aspro (talk) 18:33, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * What is a Wiki Plaque, and what is the Editors' Hall of Residences? I guess I don't understand. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:43, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * They don't exist as of now. Yet the creation of a  Wiki Plaque would serve the same purpose as a Blue plaque, although it does not have to appear the same. Could be square, triangular, etc. By Hall of Residences, suppose I mean Hall of Residence where students  will be constantly be  walking a past and see it. One could even, screw it to the wall in the collage's vestibule or  foyer (that's the big room one finds oneself in after walking in through the front entrance) but think Chris would cringe at that elevated prominence. Aspro (talk) 19:19, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, if anyone else wants to create those things, I certainly won't stop them. My gut reaction though is to leave things as they are. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:24, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * It's possible that WP:PRIZE be a good place to suggest and/or implement such. — Paleo  Neonate  – 08:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that suggestion. So have plunged my paddle  into the cauldron @ Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Awards.   Whether anything will come of it I don't know but here's trying.  Aspro (talk)


 * Thanks, Paleo. And thanks also for making me aware of the tp gnome option! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a feature.<abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;">Face-smile.svg — Paleo  Neonate  – 15:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! (And I won't even try to understand that coding.) I've never been enthusiastic about "stalkers" as a term, and I generally think of the folks here at my own talk as "watchers" or "participants". --Tryptofish (talk) 23:28, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks so much for that! And thanks for your own comments in that discussion. (As for that extensive past history that I hinted at, the less said the better. Bygones.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

This experiment might get you to thinking...
...or maybe not if you sleep with cell phone close to your head! About wi-fi <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 20:50, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I only got my first smartphone (ie, not landline) very recently because frankly I refuse to let my life be dominated by a cellphone. (I only gave in so I could check my email more conveniently.) So indeed, wifi is evil (always use a VPN).
 * As for that experiment, there is no way they could have really gotten that result unless something else was significantly different between the two rooms. No way. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If you're not using two-way encryption, that VPN ain't gonna help you none. And for some reason, a ton of commercial VPNs don't encrypt traffic from the proxy to the client (well, it's probably to minimize the performance impact, but still).
 * And yeah, that experiment smells fishier than Tryp's sock drawer (no offense). It doesn't help that they have a "rabbit hole" menu that leads to standard CS fare, including a useful you-know-you're-a-conspiracy-theorist-if... article.
 * Although to be fair, I adopted a conspiracy theory, recently. I believe that "lost" spy satellite is in the precise orbit it was supposed to go into and is working properly, and there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:49, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure glad you referenced his sock drawer and not his...👙...well, nevermind. There's also his T-shirt drawer SMirC-super.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:07, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If that VPN I'm paying so much for isn't doing any good, don't tell me, I don't wanna know. About the unmentionables, please understand that I would never violate WP:SOCK. (But of course, all of you are welcome to be my meatpuppets.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:42, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hrrmpff...I see...I'm just a piece of meat to you. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 03:18, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Just going to leave this here... Feel free to scream in confused terror throughout while watching the video, lord knows I did. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  14:44, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * They left out what his mother did with a sausage and meatballs. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:39, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * SMirC-scream.svg!!! It's ok - just call me "meat"!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:30, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That particular Meat was only ever good for one song. But damn, was it a good one. Just typing this response meant I had to pause my Synthwave/Retro Electro/Nu Retro Wave playlist for 3 minutes and 4 seconds... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:50, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Your Meat puppet video, the one I screamed through from start to finish, made me think of him. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Me too, and when I think of him, I think of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, which makes me happy. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:03, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Did somebody just diss Paradise by the Dashboard Light? (Why do I get the feeling that I could just watch, and this dialog would have gone on forever?) --Tryptofish (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes (and because it absolutely would have). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:10, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Just so everyone understands, I also love vegetarians. Medium rare. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Slightly interesting: put "Meat" into the Wikipedia search box and see what comes up. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Riddle: What does a butcher do in the country? Answer: this. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:19, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That deserves a dad joke award, right there. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  02:11, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll take any kind of award I can get. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, They're Made Out of Meat. — Paleo  Neonate  – 13:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You are what you what you eat and it's not always real meat. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 13:47, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I eat a lot of nuts. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Some strange thinkers might consider that canibalism. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:39, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * When it's actually a psychiatric diagnosis. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * OooooooOOoOooh, Tryp. You need some cream for dat burn? lol ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:46, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Those are the alternative lyrics to Paradise by the Dashboard Light. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Too much meatloaf! We need some meat dresses. (no, that's not Lady Gaga.) ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:34, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And you are finding fault with my musical taste? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:51, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, not everyone's into South African Zef Rap. How about some heavy metal (with math-based time signatures, played on a shovel and flute)? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps some Japanese goth-metal with a horror/porn themed music video? (Don't watch it at work unless you want your boss to see a man with an anthropomorphic penis doing unspeakable things to headless geisha girls while everybody vomits black bile and blood all over a bathhouse). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:13, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * --Tryptofish (talk) 21:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 42,047,991 views‼️ SMirC-facepalm.svg Might want to keep some Promethazine handy. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:56, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Dir en Grey is actually pretty popular, even outside of Japan. They've mellowed out their sound and look quite a bit since they did that one. They're more of the typical Victorian-high-fashion goth, with a more traditional western rock sound, now. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  22:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Or a Brazillian-American good-ole-fashioned heavy metal song with a found footage slasher-film music video? (That's the former lead singer of Sepultura, too).
 * Or perhaps a syncopated-time signature retro-extreme metal ode to dead astronauts?
 * One must not be afraid to explore the extremes shores of the art, lest one drown in the depths of mediocrity. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:22, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Or maybe you would prefer something a little more family friendly? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * — Paleo Neonate  – 01:24, 20 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I know it's a bit crass to resurrect an old thread but...  ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  23:23, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess it's the gift that keeps on giving. It reminds me of how South Park draws Canadians. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I know, right? I showed that video to my kids. I now own and play an Otomatone. It's freaking hilarious with a few beers in you. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:31, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

paid editing clique
''...something that stands out to me are the rather bad-faith-assuming references to the "anti paid editing clique". I guess the editors saying that are the "pro paid editing clique" '' Already observed by some of us who participates in all the various discussions about COI/PE and measures to sharpen content control, and giving us some concern. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:52, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It does trouble me that a lot of users with extensive experience and advanced permissions look upon undisclosed paid editing as no big deal. Here, I don't mean persons who are deceitfully hiding their paid editing, but rather, otherwise clueful people who just don't appreciate the seriousness of the problem. Some of it may come from a perception that the editors who have been most active in COI/PE are too bitey or too zealous, but I think some of it also comes from naivete. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Psssst....
A little shameless plug but only because it involves Wiki Science! and something that is dear to my ❤️ regarding the American paddlefish. Regardless, look at the 5 "General images" that made the Top 25 - they're incredible! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Awesome all around! Caviar, anyone? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:47, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Phase precession
I've just created this page. If any of my wonderful talk page participants would be so kind as to look it over, that would be much appreciated. It's a bit technical (well, maybe a lot), so I'm interested in whether or not it's clear to nonspecialists. Please don't hesitate to edit it, or comment at its talk page. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * As I explained recently in another thread in which you participated, the term hippocampus makes no sense, because hippos don't go to school. <b style="color: red;">E</b><b style="color: blue;">Eng</b> 01:06, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with hippos at all...no matter how many times you say it... <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 02:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Very nicely written—about as clear for laypersons as such content could be. I guess this is a stretch, but I was left wondering if in some oblique way this maybe has something to do with why I'm always forgetting where I parked my car. <b style="color: #393;">Rivertorch</b> FIREWATER  06:51, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Well done, Dr. Tryptofish. I will now proceed with the layperson questions:
 * Is this process relative to our sense of direction, and/or remembering the road we took to get to a certain place and being able to return to it again with each trip being easier to find?
 * If the answer to #1 is "yes", then it may produce different results if the trials include both men and women...or it may finally prove something about men once and for all in that there is no difference, which would explain why men refuse to stop and ask directions.
 * Wonder if dependence on GPS has retarded development of or possibly withered relative human cells?
 * <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:03, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh for heaven's sake. Dave Barry explained men's reluctance to ask for directions years ago: "For years women have made fun of men for refusing to ask directions. But did it ever occur to you women that we men have a reason? Did it ever occur to you that we might be thinking about something that you don't know? That something is this: Under the Rules of Guy Conduct, if you're a guy driving a car, and you don't know how to get where you're going, and you pull over to ask another guy, and he does know, then he is legally entitled to take your woman! Yes! He can just lean through the window and grab her! I bet you feel silly now!" <b style="color: red;">E</b><b style="color: blue;">Eng</b> 17:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * lol* I'm sure that was the reason used by the person driving this car. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @Rivertorch: thanks, I really appreciate that!
 * @Atsme: If you would like to volunteer to drive with electrodes inserted through your skull into your brain, we could do the same with EEng and pit the two of you against each other.
 * I volunteer under the conditions that Phineas Gage does it with me. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:00, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @EEng: thanks for your edits. And I want you to know that I made this edit: specifically because I was thinking of your essay (the superfluous language was on another page, from which I got the image, so feel free to add Theta wave to the examples in your essay). Now as for all those hippos, the hippocampus was named after seahorses, because it's shaped like them. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm glad you finally got that figured out, Doc - you really are a Tryp (trip, so as not to confuse EEng with pronunciations)...SMirC-chuckle.svg j/k - I'm thoroughly impressed and support free education like what I've enjoyed over the past 6 years as a on your TP. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:57, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It took me a moment to realize what the image for "buttinsky" was, but when I did, I got quite a laugh out of it! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:00, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Tryp, you crack me up! I should start a new business selling butt-crack putty. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:03, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess I can't be arsed to reply to that. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:06, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

And I have documents to prove it
All the very smart watchers of my talk page, and also EEng, will be interested to know that I've done further research about this hippo campus stuff, and discovered a fascinating new story:


 * Gageous Finn (1847–1892) was a nineteenth century sea captain who became famous after suffering a traumatic injury to his brain. He was born in 1847 in Belchertown, Massachusetts and graduated three years later from Harvard College. After spending a few years hunting hippopotami in Africa, he was commissioned as the Captain of the whaling vessel Blubberbutt. One night, while carousing drunkenly on the deck, he suffered a freak accident when a harpoon was propelled through his skull, going in one ear and out the other. Physicians who treated him were astonished to find a live seahorse where his left hippocampus should have been. Remarkably, he suffered no loss of hearing, and no impairment of intellect, having been rather stupid to begin with. Camillo Golgi later cited these observations as inspiring his shit-for-brains model of neuroanatomy. Finn went on to become a traveling salesman for Q-Tips. His story inspired Herman Melville's sequel to Moby Dick: Moby Dick II – The Dick Spouts Again.undefined

The DYK hooks almost write themselves, don't they? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:08, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It certainly had me hooked, and I'm no hooker. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:25, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Phase precession
Hello! Your submission of Phase precession at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Andrew D. (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Feel better doing this here
"And my inclination is that either Ceranthor or Floquenbeam should just go ahead and do it." I would, except I worry it could easily end up making things worse. The last thing I want to do is add a note to the block log along the lines of what I suggested, and then Tony comes back a week later, insulted because I cluttered up his block log with something he did not want or value, or that he didn't like the wording, or something. You know what I mean? I'd much rather get his buy-in. Then, if he objects to the wording or something, he can talk to Ceranthor instead and I just gracefully bow out. Do you really think unilaterally adding that to the block log without his OK is really unlikely to be harmful? --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:11, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a very good question, and thanks for bringing it up. You are right about that. I'll admit to having been frustrated with the blocking admin, who ended up showing bad judgment. Perhaps it would be a good idea to email Tony and discuss the potential block log annotation offline before taking action. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that he wants to be asked personally. And even if not, it certainly is true that acting prematurely could create more heat than light. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:22, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Good idea, email sent. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Hmmmm.....
...another brain teaser, which means it's time for...Ask the doctor. The info comes from one of our favorite RS, lol. Never know till you ask. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:41, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I hate to tell you, but "the doctor" is apparently the only person in the solar system who is not on Facebook – and absolutely does not want to be. Consequently, when I clicked your link, I got a request to log in, and that's as far as I got. Do you have an alternative URL? --Tryptofish (talk) 17:54, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Executive summary: comparisons with fossil skulls suggest that over the past 20,000 years the human brain has shrunk in volume by about 10%, and nobody really knows how to explain that. (My theory is that it was caused by listening to music of the sort that plays in the background of the video.) Looie496 (talk) 18:23, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! It's old news. And by the way, my own brain is shrinking rapidly even as we talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:29, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think it may have been caused by Facebook. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:32, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * People who simultaneously use their brains more efficiently and have smaller brains would, in survival conditions, have an advantage over those with larger, less efficient brains, even assuming intelligence were the same, or possibly even slightly less in the former population. This effect has not been documented as having continued over the past 500 years or so, and so we don't know whether this is a survival pressure or some other factor. But given the fact that survival pressures are, by far, the most common reasons for evolutionary changes, it seems quite likely that's what it is. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  18:45, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And yes, you should be amazed at the fact that I gave a serious answer. I know I am. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  18:46, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Next on the agenda: small, um, hands. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I see...one could liken it to Nature's own Nanotechnology. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 19:04, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And, seriously, Brain is a very major source of metabolic load, so smaller brains really would be evolutionarily desirable. It's really cortical folding, and thus surface area, rather than actual size, that determines intelligence. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:11, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't you do neurology or something related for a living? Just curious, and of course, you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
 * And small hands are desirable because they make you great. Like really great. The greatest. Everybody says so. YUUUGE greatness. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:27, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Neuroscience, not neurology (I'm a PhD, not some lousy MD). Yes, formerly a tenured professor at a large US research university, but now out of the higher education racket. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I find it hard to believe, given the lack of civility/NPA blocks in your block log that you had spent any appreciable amount of time in academia. Though I do apologize for implying that you were a lowly MD. I for one, have only an associates degree of which I am inordinately proud, given that I only got it in my mid-30's. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:35, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, it wasn't all that appreciated. Oh, and fuck you! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:47, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Take it from me, Jollypants, the guy's a complete slimeball partial slime ball.           Martinevans123 (talk) 19:40, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Alas, I'm incomplete. But I'd rather be a slimey than a limey. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:55, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah?? I'll see you down the Queen's Market, me ol' china !! MartyCrayfish123 (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That's because I'm a fish, not a guy. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:45, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey wow, man, I never thought of that. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:49, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

That's it! I'm coming for you, fish man!  ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:54, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You Betta (splendens)! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:22, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * True story: The last guy who called me a Beta (Not a Betta; I'm okay with that) got punched in the face and cried about it. Never did get his "Alpha" butt around to hitting back, just gasped in shock and stared at me through the tears. I realize that's not in keeping with the running theme here, but I personally found it hilarious. It's also one of the reasons I don't go to that bar any more. Don't worry Tryp; I'd never hit a man with glasses. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  21:59, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a good photo of me! Actually, I wasn't calling you that, but attempting (unsuccessfully, it seems) to pun on "you bet!" or (to use the, um, Alaskan dialect) "you betcha!" --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I actually got that, but I noticed there was an alternative interpretation that led me to a funny anecdote. One of those rare times when violence was funny. Err, outside of a Tom & Jerry cartoon, that is. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  22:08, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Remind me never to get drunk with you. { --Tryptofish (talk) 22:10, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, getting drunk with me is fine. I'm a happy drunk. It's getting drunk around me that you don't want to do. I'm a prankster. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  22:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Cheers! And now I'm off to tend to my cannabis plants (yes, really!). --Tryptofish (talk) 22:17, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, now I know who I'm hanging out with at the next Wiki meetup. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  22:26, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll bring the snackies...but how will I locate you two? Do I look for fish lips and bloomer britches? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:03, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, I actually look like Thor, so I won't be too hard to spot. You could always follow the smoke that smells like your college days. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  23:08, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I don't smoke anything, just use it in edible form. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:45, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not finding it on my calorie counter...<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:01, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Have you tried the bargain counter? Or the bargain countertenor? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:04, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have, and I highly recommend it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:22, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * They are no bargain. Your musical taste never fails to astound! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:30, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Years and years and years and years and years    ago, I actually did a heavy metal cover of that. Sang it in my natural singing voice, which is a low tenor/high bass. Except for the drawn out "stayin aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!" line, of course. But we started it out with just the beat before the baseline kicked in, so everyone was confused at first (it's not a heavy metal beat at all). Then we started the bassline at the same time I started singing. The audience loved it.  ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:35, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Good! It could only have been an improvement. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 228,864,568 views on that one, - half of them mine!! SMirC-shy.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:06, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The other half are probably mine, as I'm singing along in my cookie monster voice. But all this complaining about my musical tastes! I guess I should share what I actually listen to... At least at work: . Don't be scared. There's nothing but music in there; no NSFW videos or anything. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  04:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)



Looks to me like...
...the proposal we've been working on is going to be the only way to go if we ever hope to make change. I read the comments at the policy TP and can see both sides of the argument. I'm of the mind that it's unnatural for people to easily give up control/benefits in the name of prevention. I can't even think of a few who would (1) admit an action they took was either abusive or inappropriate, short of a photo of their hand in the cookie jar, or (2) would agree to adding accountability with additional rules & restrictions that will fetter some of their unfettered powers. I liken it to making Congress vote on enforcing term limits, and reducing their wages and retirement income. The wider community has to make it happen. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:04, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I know we know each other well enough that I can be blunt with you. I agree with you that nothing will happen without the wider community pushing for it. But otherwise: bullshit (sorry!). If editors, and not just admins who feel they have a vested interest, show up at the two policy page talk pages (for those following along, that's WT:BLOCK and WT:NLT, but please don't construe that as a canvassing invitation), then we can change policies in ways that will really help (although frankly the changes are actually very minor). But if they don't, I can't do it alone, and I may soon just walk away from it. If you personally don't want to comment there, that's fine, of course. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:17, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." –William Butler Yeats. Or at least it feels to me like that at the moment. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:31, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I left a comment at WP:NLT after briefly surveying the discussion. Not sure if you and I are in agreement, but I said my bit. If we are in disagreement, and you've got a good argument for your position (which would be "change the policy", as I said we shouldn't need to change the policy), then perhaps we should get a discussion going about a possible guideline for dealing with legal threats, as opposed to a raw policy change. Something that we could point to in order to contrast the actions of an admin issuing a bad block, but not something with additional wording that could be used to game the system by a bad faith editor. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:48, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thought I did!! Canvassing is not an issue here since I'm already involved there. I was using my iPad early this morning when I saw Callan's comment - crafted a response and thought I clicked Publish changes - guess I didn't. I deplore trying to do any real WP work on an iPhone or iPad. I also got sidetracked over an inadvertent screw-up caused by my use of the curation tool. Don't laugh too hard, the damn article was Libtard and I was already being questioned about it (now archived) and was feeling guilty even though I'm totally innocent. I did what I could. Finally, an admin came to my rescue. Back on point - I absolutely believe the block policy needs clarification. Oh, and you know me well enough to know that I don't give up easily, often to your dismay. Sometimes my response to serious issues like this one take longer...especially on the weekends. Rest assured, I'm there. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:18, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 02:07, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

When you get time, please take a look at Blocking_policy_proposal which was presented back in 2006. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 15:29, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh, wait - Tryp, was it your intention to keep the discussions regarding policy clarifications at NLT and Blocking limited to local consensus? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:13, 4 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, both of you. To be honest, I'm getting dismayed about the whole business. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:35, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Tryp, don't get dismayed. We are not working under a deadline. There was a reason I began discussions in user space. While it may not provide an accurate gage of what the wider community thinks, it does give us a sample of what a few of the most vocal editors are thinking. First responders will probably include editors who haven't experienced a wrongful block, or who aren't concerned because anonymity protects their feelings (a person whose real id is unknown and who exists as a psuedonym only is unlikely to be harmed/embarrassed by wrongful blocks on a block log) - and so on. I was hoping the input we're getting from the proposals in user space will help us craft a really good RfC that covers the essential points - something that can be presented to the wider community at VP (policy). If it fails, it fails - it's the tuition we pay for future success. Oh, and I've also learned that beer doesn't make you fat....it makes you lean...against bars, chairs, tables, and walls - so have a 🍺 or 🍻 or more. I'm buying! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:28, 4 February 2018 (UTC)


 * You know what would fix the whole shebang? Admins who only patrol other admins, and use blocks and TBANS to stop abuses. In the Oshwah case, I think it was handled well, but there have been a few cases recently where an admin taking an enforced break might have been the best approach. Honestly, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I just don't think that changing or adding to the policy is going to help it. Like I said above; a guideline that admins are expected to adhere to (or else explain very convincingly why they didn't) would be a better approach. It matches the various bits of proposed language that I'd seen, too. In other words, I think the proposals there are good ones, but they're being proposed to the wrong pages. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  02:49, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * is there actually a set of rules that was crafted specifically for admins, or is the blocking policy it? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 04:06, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there's a guideline somewhere that covers how an admin should handle a problem user. I'm equally sure it could use expansion and updating. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  04:53, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There's WP:ADMIN. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I looked at that while trying (halfheartedly, I admit) to find the guideline I alluded to earlier. It's certainly a good reference for what's expected of an admin, though I don't know if it really falls into a guideline as to how an admin should handle a complaint, such as at ANI or at their talk page. I was expecting something like a bullet pointed list of tips and best practices. I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps, there is not such a guideline, and if so, perhaps we should rope a few admins into helping us create it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:ADMINGUIDE. I guess I've been feeling kinda cynical lately, but I'm amused by "rope". --Tryptofish (talk) 19:29, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm perfectly open to tying a hangman's knot in the rope before we use it... But yes, that's exactly the guideline I was referring to! Ha! You proved me right, and I will never forget a man (or woman) who does that for me. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:34, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Or fish. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * But of course. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  19:41, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Hot off the presses: WP:LAZYLAZY. You're welcome! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:29, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * SMirC-love.svg - especially "odorless excrement". Priceless!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 01:48, 6 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Regarding the "producer of odorless excrement" section: I've a perfect illustration of why it's a bad argument. See Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Hardy, in which I viciously attacked a hapless admin, and the whole of Wikipedia rose up behind me to further demand he be desysopped, tarred and feathered; a fate which he only narrowly escaped due to an overwhelming onslaught of bureaucratic wikilawyering by ArbCom. Or at least, that's how a few people framed it. In my experience, it was more an admin going on the warpath because I was short with him one time and getting promptly smacked down by the WP community (a charge which was led by two other admins) to the point that he damned near lost his mop, over it. (The bureaucratic wikilawyering part was true, though.)
 * The whole thing really raised my level of faith in the WP community, to be honest. Much of the drama played out between the guy who had it in for me and a host of "defenders" over a period of about 14 hours when I wasn't even aware of any of it happening. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  04:16, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * { I spoke the other day about feeling dismayed, but writing that made me feel a whole lot better. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:11, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I bet. Venting like that always does me a world of good. And it's a good vent, worthy of a wikispace shortcut. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  18:53, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, some hot gas deserves a good vent, and I've certainly been subjected to a lot of hot gas lately! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:15, 6 February 2018 (UTC)


 * While I was feeling much the same dismay as Tryp, my position remains central and unwavering - I vent pent-up gas differently. If an editor chooses to eat beans they shouldn't be surprised by the "crappy" music beans produce. There are many admins I consider top notch and not at all problematic - some of whom I admire for the integrity, character and overall abilities their actions demonstrate. The vast majority of my interactions have been good. I recognize the fact that admins and editors are real people with real feelings who sometimes make real mistakes. I also recognize that I may be overly dependent on our admins at times (mostly at NPP & AfC), and may be guilty of expecting more from them SMirC-super.svg than I should...the same applies to editors with whom I choose to associate (there are a few who top the charts in my book). I will add that having worn the shoes of an "official" judge responsible for choosing the winners of substantial sums of money, I can relate somewhat to situations our admins are often faced with when having to make instantaneous judgment calls...and they don't get a dime for it.
 * Re: blocks and the block log - there is no question that, in my case, I did not deserve the block for "outing" that remains on my block log. The next block, GUILTY - I violated 3RR as a newbie who didn't know what it meant - which may explain why I am a bit more sensitive to some of the dilemmas newbies face. As for anything else on my block log, I have no desire to re-litigate, but will say that I am sensitive to the feelings of other editors who faced something similar. I will add that I have had a couple of opposition/ill-will editors use my block log to "put me in my place" if you will, and I've also had the occassional teeth gritting "reminder" during content disputes - the latter is one way gamers game the system. Through it all, I have not lost faith in the roll of our administrators and the thankless job they perform day-to-day. I maintain my belief that the bulk of the problems stem from the ambiguities and lack of clarity in our policies - for editors and admins alike - and I applaud Tryp & MPants for trying to make positive changes. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:44, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well-said, and I thank you for that. I've been seeing an unusual amount of overreaction at various places around the Wiki in recent days, some of it downright baffling to me, and I hope that things will settle down. After all the various discussions, disagreements, and the rest, this is still only a website. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:15, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Major concern...
...I'm addicted to Thin Mints and 🍺 during Happy Hour. There must be a scientific reason for it...and no, I'm not with child...age minimum is 21 to sit at the bar. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * When I saw the section header, I was briefly worried that there was really a big problem, and I'm glad that there isn't. As for appetitive control, it's all about the hypothalamus. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:07, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The rapid highs and lows in life are what heightens the senses and makes us feel alive. When you've had enough of it, the answer is: SMirC-palm.svg SMirC-wine.svg. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 02:04, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess I should add that, along with the hypothalamus, the nucleus accumbens and the medial nucleus of the amygdala also play significant roles. (Class dismissed!) --Tryptofish (talk) 18:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Speaking of too much neuroscience, are you aware of any (serious) hypotheses that the neanderthal ancestry of Europeans and Asians explains racial differences in IQ scores? (For the record, I'm well aware of and in agreement with the prevailing hypothesis that socioeconomic and cultural factors are the most likely culprit for the rather insignificant differences recorded). There's an editor proposing OR over at Talk:Race and intelligence. I'm asking you because you know the subject, and because I honestly don't know if any academic has seriously proposed it. If so, it might actually be worth mentioning in the article (though it breaks my liberal heart to suggest such a thing). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:02, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * All populations of humans share the same ancestry up to the time that the species differentiated from other primates, and to the best of my knowledge, all biologically based theories of IQ variation are pseudoscience. May your liberal heart be happy! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:07, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * But I have no comment on this: . --Tryptofish (talk) 20:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * (Well, to be clear, I was referring to neanderthals interbreeding with anatomically modern humans back when there were still some neanderthals around to do the horizontal tango with. I'm well aware that we have our own, separate lineage. But I'm happy to read your response, confirming my own limited knowledge of the subject.) Who would have thought the day would come when we could once again compare the president to a lower order of apes without being all racist about it? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:32, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of high school... (the interbreeding, that is!) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:37, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You should see some of my high school-era ex-girlfriends. It may sound nostalgic to you, but it's downright déjà vu for me. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  20:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Mitochondrial Eve...Live Science...Plos...and Your Momma. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 00:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * My tochondria are always your tochondria. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I SMirC-love.svg it when you talk Wikifishypedic to me...or tochondriatic...or...where is General Electric so I can thank him? Is it Happy Hour yet? Sorry, I'm already happy without it. SMirC-chuckle.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 20:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * To speak to General Electric, please first contact Colonel Corn. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Not to be a stickler, but I believe Major Concern actually served under General Apprehension. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em"><b style="color:#000">nagual</b><b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b></b> 21:07, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You'd have to ask Private Parts and Corporal Punishment. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ^^^The WINNER!!!^^^ SMirC-beam.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 22:01, 9 February 2018 (UTC)