User talk:Tseals2

Welcome!
Hello, Tseals2, and welcome to Wikipedia! My name is Shalor and I work with the Wiki Education Foundation; I help support students who are editing as part of a class assignment.

I hope you enjoy editing here. If you haven't already done so, please check out the student training library, which introduces you to editing and Wikipedia's core principles. You may also want to check out the Teahouse, a community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to helping new users. Below are some resources to help you get started editing. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Unlawfully murdered black trans women


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created, Unlawfully murdered black trans women, was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Passengerpigeon (talk) 01:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi - I wanted to let you know that you should be very, very, very careful with articles like this. This is for several reasons:
 * The first is that you will need to make sure that the article is neutral.
 * Using the term "unlawfully murdered" is a bit problematic - even the list article uses the term "unlawfully killed" per this discussion. The discussion basically boils down to three things: "Murder, while we all "know" what it means is actually a closely defined crime with different definitions in different jurisdictions, By no means all such deaths will be recorded technically as Murder., Unlawful killing, if we divorce it from UK law, says (a) that the person was killed (ie that they did not just die), and (b) that such killing was unlawful."
 * With this, you will need to show how this doesn't isn't seen as a content fork of the main article List of unlawfully killed transgender people. You'll also need to satisfy concerns that this will be more than a memorial wall, which is one of the ongoing concerns with the main article. The main article was actually nominated for deletion back in November and one of the main issues brought up by people arguing for deletion was that the list's criteria for inclusion was too low. Some list articles deal with this by only listing people with articles, which is one of the most common resolutions. Another is to list people if there's enough coverage to justify inclusion somewhere but perhaps maybe not a standalone article. (Only a few sources need to be added, but in general the sourcing should be more than 2-4 local sources.)
 * On that note, this needs more sourcing - it should not rely on one outlet for sourcing and should have the best possible sourcing. (Academic and scholarly sourcing would be best You need to be able to prove two things as far as articles go: that these deaths were notable and that highlighting the black transgender women is not an arbitrary choice. (IE, that it's worth highlighting them over Hispanic transgender women, Asian transgender men, and so on.) I would, however, recommend that the list be a bit broader and instead be a list of minority transgender people. (IE, both men and women that are black, Asian, Hispanic, etc.) This would be a lot easier to defend than a very specific article.
 * This will need to take a global view - so far these are only transgender women from the United States.
 * I hope that none of this comes across as too harsh - it's not that I'm against this article, just that spinoff list articles can be extremely hard to justify, especially when the parent article was so recently nominated for deletion (and closed as no consensus as opposed to a firm keep). Also, as this is a very controversial topic it's important that this is approached very carefully. I've moved this to your userspace at User:Tseals2/Unlawfully killed black trans women so you can work on this at your leisure since new articles on controversial topics tend to be subjected to a bit more scrutiny than others. I do think that it would be a good idea to make this into a more general article about minority transgender people that includes a list, as I think that there's a huge amount of potential for an article like that.
 * I hope that this helps! Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 03:15, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * A colleague of mine brought up a good option - you could create an article about violence against transgender women. Since black transgender women are the focus of transgender violence in many situations, you could definitely create a big section about this. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:00, 9 April 2018 (UTC)