User talk:Tulkolahten/Archive6

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Peace and consensus?
Deliberate, false accusations of vandalism pretty much put the lie to your claims of seeking Peace and consensus, You sure don't seem to be seeking it.

Nonetheless, I will respond to your points in that message in due course. Gene Nygaard 18:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

As you may know I have made many valuable contributions to wikipedia I had nearly added every municipality in Slovakia to the prject when he started barking at me back in November to the point I almost left enirely. He was acting as if one or two foreign characters in the index of a category was going to delete the whole project or something. Any minor errors (beleive me the smallest ever) were blown up by him into a serious argument! Very unreasonable and spiteful - I offered him a chance to be cool twice - luckily he gave up -I can't be bothered with him people like that never change. Sad isn't it. A shame you speak to so many nice people on here then you get the opossite who love to confront everyone Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is rather disingenuous of you, Ernst, to go to my talk page and say "That stuff from Mongolia was when I was a WikiBaby!! Good to see you are still indexing. I'll fix it now Ernst", then come here and whine about it.


 * Note that you had previously claimed that all the problems you had created could easily be fixed, and not only that, that they would be fixed. How many more times am I going to run across more categories missorted because you did not follow up on your promises to fix them?  Gene Nygaard 17:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I must admit though I have'nt seen him vandalize any of my work as such but it is his unpleasantness and mistreatment of others that makes me dislike him Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

''Ok, Gene. Let's make a deal, edit war is meaningless.'' ''I agree with you, that Hraničky cannot be found. But I disagree with topic's name Hranicky. I think that much more better is redirect Hranicky to Hraničky. As you mentioned german names in the cities and villages, it is because of far history, many czech cities had a german minority or majority and vice versa. So I propose this:'' If topic's name contains national characters, create a plain text us-ascii redirect if none and leave topic's name as it is. ''Deal ?  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)''


 * No deal, Tulkolahten. You know better.


 * That is not the rule. Start following the rules and we will get along better.  BTW, I don't have the foggiest idea what your point is about Hraničky; it was User:Darwinek you were edit-warring with there, not me. (Plus, you edit-warring with him hasn't involved Gränzdorf either in the text or the missing redirect from that with or without diacritics, from what I've seen.)


 * Under Naming conventions, the existence of a variant spelling with diacritics does not mean that this is the proper choice for the one slot available for an article's name.


 * Our English Wikipedia article is at Romania, for example, and not at România with the squiggles. The latter is, of course, a redirect.  So you will never get a deal on your proposal as long as it remains contrary to Wikipedia policies and guidelines.


 * Follow the rules about including variant spellings in the introduction, too, as the guidelines tell us to. You know how you can show good faith in this regard.  You can probably guess the consequences, with respect to ever coming to any sort of agreement with me, if you do not do so.  Remember, good faith is a rebuttable presumption.


 * Curiously, while you have insisted that the English spelling variants of the spelling of the subject of the article should not even be included in the introduction of articles as the guidelines provide, you argue (in what you discussed on my talk page and in your edit summaries there; note also that Talk:Jiangyan High School remains a redlink as I write this) that the Chinese variant spellings, even for things other than the subject of the article, somehow belong on the English Wikipedia.  The Chinese spellings related (even quite remotely) to the subject of the article remained, yet you put all the unrelated ones back in also.  That seems so bizarre to me.  Can you give any explanation to help me make sense of that clear and patent contradiction?


 * In addition to naming conventions and citing sources, following the rules includes the details, such as not using the comma as a decimal point, not starting sentences with a numeral, proper date formats, capitalization of "German" and the like even as an adjective or in reference to the language in English, etc. Sure, I understand that if you are translating from another Wikipedia's entries or some other source, you might miss a few of them.  Just show an awareness of the problem and make a good faith effort to catch things like that.


 * Note that the burden of proof for making a change lies with those proposing the change. If you want to make changes, cite your reliable sources or  discuss the changes and your reasons on the talk pages.  The burden does not lie with someone reverting unsourced and undiscussed changes.   So don't complain about it if they get reverted, just remedy it.


 * Stopping false accusations of vandalism is, of course, another precondition to any deal. Gene Nygaard 16:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Your note
Thanks - it's never too late on WP. Let me know when you have a version ready - I can work on polishing it when it's done. Crum375 12:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Otázka
Mas aktivovany mail na WP? Spolu s dalsimi adminy shanime podporu pro predneseni jeho osoby pred Arbitracni Komisi, ktera se muze o nej na dobro postarat. Pridas se k nam? P.S. Planuju vytvorit clanek o Trineckych zelezarnach. Jak to prelozit do anglictiny. I oficialni stranka TZ a jeji anglicka verze pouziva cesky nazev. Premyslim mezi Třinec Steel Works a Třinec Iron Works. - Darwinek 18:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Vytvoreno zde: Třinec Iron and Steel Works. - Darwinek 22:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * a.) Diky za pochvalu. :) b.) Cekam az me kontaktujou dalsi lidi, kteri spoluchystaji onen "prevrat" :) c.) OK to urcite neni, hlasuj na WP:CFD, je to nominovano na vymaz . - Darwinek 23:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Dlouhodobejsi blok nebo i definitivni blok. Videl jsem jak blokli navzdy i jednoho kamose, kteremu uz proste jednou ruply nervy a furt nekoho urazel (ale editor fakt dobry), takze snad mu neco konecne udelaji. Cekam, ze se po vikendu nekdo ozve. - Darwinek 17:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Odvracet, odvracet, odvracet. :) - Darwinek 18:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

British Airways Flight 9 Citation
Hi! Thanks for the quick response! It seems to be working now, I guess someone fixed it or I just didn't realize that it was working. Thanks again! Nemilar 21:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for fixing my typo. But while you are stalking me around, you might have taken the time to fix the missing redirect from aluminum battery at the same time! Gene Nygaard 20:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Diacritics Discussion
Hola, thanks for your input to the discussion. Although I'm not computer-savvy (it actually took me a while to understand what your argument about us-ascii was as I've never heard that term in my life before lol) I do believe that the spelling of foreign language words should be respected at Wikipedia's articles and that if someone searches for the term using us-ascii, they should be redirected to the article that has the original spelling with diacritics...I mean, that's part of what an encyclopaedia should be, isn't it? Furthering knowledge on things one doesn't normally know about like foreign cultures and how they manifest themselves differently to our own.

I see you had a somewhat similar problem to mine with Gene Nygaard lol. It's tiresome how you can get into silly arguments with some people here, it's just much ado about nothing really; I believe these folk just think better of themselves when they go around rudely pointing at everything that doesn't comply strictly with Wikipedia's guidelines. What's worst, they delude themselves into believing they're doing us all a big favor when really they just create an uncomfortable atmosphere for those of us who actually write articles...it's discouraging.Rosa 22:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I've been caught by it a few times myself lolRosa 22:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll copy & paste a bit of the first paragraph as support argument.Rosa 01:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Waldemar Matuska
Why did you move that page to wrong spelling ?  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 23:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am working on expanding the article, and that is the spelling in all the sources I consulted: IMDB and others. Jonathunder 23:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

That spelling is acutally wrong, there was a redirect to fulfil us-ascii. His name is Waldemar Matuška, now we need an administrator to fix that :-/  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 23:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The spelling of the article reflects the sources being used in expanding it. Generally, we spell things under the most common name in English, as reflected by sources, even if it differs from a spelling in the language of origin. Jonathunder 23:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It isn't just the IMDB. It's every extended source in English I saw, including a print academic journal. Jonathunder 00:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer using the spelling I find in English sources as the primary one, as that is what most readers will use. Jonathunder 00:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ten Evzenuv kamarad je taky pica, ale mozna je to i admin, nevim, adminska pica, sorry ale at mi nikdo nerika, ze je nahoda, ze od srpna na clanek nikdo nesahl a ted se najednou po Evzenovi objevuje druhy skudce. Jeste mi posilal vcera ubreceneho mejla, jako ze trva na tom, at jsem zdvorily, a ze si nevazi mojich prispevku. A nelibi se mu, ze se na Wikipedii pouzivaji jine jazyky nez ten jejich. Je to mrdka jako Evzen, jenom light.

Navrhuju sehnat pro hlasovani co nejvice Cechu, jinak mohou Evzenovy argumenty snadno ovlivnit nezainteresovane uzivatele a muze to dopadnout blede. Zdravim. :) - Darwinek 09:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Tamhle ta diskuse neskonci nikdy, clanek bude dycky kontroverzni. Jedine reseni je blokovat ty curaky, kteri se snazi aby clanek vypadal, jako ze je to nejvetsi nestesti 20. stoleti, a ze skopcaci jsou nejvetsi chudaci. Fuj! Jak rika babicka (prezila valku): Dobry Nemec, dva metry pod zemi. :) Zkusim sehnat nejake priznive hlasy pro Waldka M., mam tady hodne znamych, vcetne lidi, kteri neco dluzi :). A jinak diky, ze me zasobujes novinkama, bez tebe bych vubec nevedel, ze Waldka presunuli. - Darwinek 09:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

No asi neni. :( Vidim to cerne. Tohle se bude dycky resit pripad od pripadu. Jestli jsem se tady na wiki za ty vice jak dva roky neco naucil, tak to je to, ze community consensus je blbost. Stejne jako Thomas Jefferson rikal, ze demokracie je tyranie vetsiny, zvule 51 procent nad 49 procenty. Tak na wiki plati, ze konsensus je o tom, jestli mas kontakty nebo ne. Jestli je mas a je jich dost, tak je to jenom o tom, jestli "vas" je vic nez "jich". Proto je paradoxne nejlepsi stalinisticky system, kdy mas tu kupu lidi, ktera bez ptani zveda ruku pro tvoji vec. :) WP neni o tom, kdo je slusnejsi a vetsi skaut pri dodrzovani pravidel, ale o asertivnosti a schopnosti prosadit svuj nazor. Videl jsem tady mnohokrat vazene adminy porusovat nejmocneji ty nejzakladnejsi pravidla a ... ... nic se jim nestalo :). Trochu to pripomina starou pravdu (alegoricky), ze kdyz ukradnes 100 milionu zachazeji s tebou v rukavickach, kdyz ukradnes 100 korun, tak te zmlati a zavrou do basy. :)

A jak uz jsem nekdy nekde psal, prednest tento problem nekde vyse a snazit se ho povysit na oficialni platformu by trvalo tydny a dlouhou, nekonecnou diskusi, ktere zaverem by nebylo nic noveho.

Jinak naprosto vazne premyslim o startu WikiProject Czech Republic, tohle nam mocne chybi. Kazdy ma svuj wiki projekt, CR a Cesi jeste ne. Bylo by to navic misto, kde muzes krasne sehnat hodne hlasu. Stejne to delaji Rusove. Je nejake hlasovani, na jejich stranku napise jeden jediny uzivatel o co jde, a do tri dnu mas minimalne pet hlasu naprosto "necekane" tam kde by mely byt. :) - Darwinek 10:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Nominovano zde: . Jinak zjistil jsem, ze Vlastimil Brodsky nema na wp svuj clanek. Je treba ho v budoucnu rychle vytvorit, nez to nekdo udela s kratkym y. :) - Darwinek 10:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Tak ho zaloz a ja se pridam :) A budem prostrednictvim toho wikiporjektu podporovat svoje navrhy ;)  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 10:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No podle pravidel musi byt nejdrive minimalne tak pet hlasu pro zalozeni projektu, pak se projekt oficialne zalozi a pak uz zalezi jenom na schopnostech a vuli uzivatelu jestli se to povede nebo ne. Jsou tu WikiProjekty, ktere jsou de facto v komatu po uspesnem zacatku a jsou tu projekty, ktere slapou naplno uz dlouho. Trochu se bojim toho typicky ceskeho individualismu, aby se na to vsichni nevysrali. :) Samozrejme hlavnim cilem projektu nadale zustava editovani clanku souvisejicich s Ceskem a zvysovani urovne informaci o Cesku na EN Wiki. - Darwinek 10:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * A typical problem of a self-taught Czech speaker I guess... Thanks for the explanation.  // Halibutt 22:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: WikiProject Czech Republic
Thanks for inviting me to proposed WikiProject Czech Republic. Cheers.--Pethr 15:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Počkejme ještě pár dnů, ať se hlasů usbírá víc. Stejně teď nemám čas vytvořit stránku s projektem. I tak se WM hlasování ubírá tím správným směrem ;). - Darwinek 17:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Uz radeji nikoho nekontaktuj :). Vsak ono to nejak dopadne :). Je to osetreny, jestli mi rozumis, draku ;)... - Darwinek 19:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nebo decentne napis tem, kteri podporili WikiProject a jeste nehlasovali ("jsme prece Cesi", jak rika jeden pan profesor), ale nedavej link na WM, Evzen se pak podiva do what linkz here a bude problem. - Darwinek 20:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Tos nemusel. Ve čtvrtek až v pátek si nad tím sednu a vylepším to celé. Mám v hlavě nějaký plán jak to udělat. - Darwinek 21:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ti mají dycky víc než my :). Snad někdy vzdáleně v budoucnu, to je teď low priority. - Darwinek 21:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ano i ne. Někdy se to daří, protože je v projektu získán konsensus a není nikdo proti, ale je to snadno napadnutelné. V našem případě by to navíc mělo nulový efekt. Dycky tu bude argument, že takhle se fragmentují pravidla a stává se to nepřehledné, a že to nejsou universální pravidla. Ale jak jsem řekl, výhoda je v tom, že v dobrém projektu se vybuduje silná parta, která přehlasuje skoro cokoli a která také dobře edituje články, to je podstatné. :) Bojím se hurá efektu, kdy deset lidí podporuje projekt, ale aktivních bude jen pár. No uvidíme. V životě jsou důležitější věci než wikipedia. :) - Darwinek 21:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Dyť jo, já bych to nijak nehrotil. Jsem optimista, však se podívej na hlasování u WM, už teď je vymalováno. :) Hlavním cílem WikiProjektu je i tak editace článků a to myslím, že půjde taky dobře. Taky edituju články o ČR jen v malém procentu, ale přeci jenom, a dycky se dá udělat víc a líp společně. - Darwinek 22:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)