User talk:Tvoz/Archive 5

2009 archive 5

Another weird link
Hi Tvoz, for some reason, Dan Vickrey has a redirect to the Counting Crows band page. Can you remove it, so I can start a REAL individual page for him? So weird, I don't see the link at the top of the page, but when I click his name under "members" in the infobox, I get a screen that looks identical with his name in the top left corner as a redirect! If you would help, I'll be indebted once again. --leahtwosaints (talk) 00:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops.. another thing. Dan Vickrey's photo, which is in the info box is spelled wrong: Dan Vickery. Any way to fix that? --leahtwosaints (talk) 19:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Trolling
I just want to know about your reason to remove my question on Barack Obama discussion page. I guess i didn't a trolling case since i read the policy on here. C H J L Discuss 02:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, i can understand. But if the rumor is true or i've found the external sources, shall we put in to the article? It is part of article improving. C H J L  Discuss 04:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Black president
I have rewritten this article and fully cited it. I hope you can read over it and share your thoughts. • Freechild   'sup?   16:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

President Obama
I wonder how many people out there, question Obama's legitmacy as President, because they believed he didn't swear the oath correctly? GoodDay (talk) 00:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they are lining up. But, he took the oath again, which I hope will shut them up. However, there is no depth below which some people won't go. And all too many of them edit here. Tvoz / talk 01:01, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Caroline, no
This NY Post report also has her dropping out, but contradicts the NYT report in that this says she wasn't going to be picked by Paterson, while Times said she was. We will indeed have to wait and see what really happened. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Now the NYT is saying "In a dramatic and confusing turn of events, Caroline Kennedy informed Gov. David A. Paterson on Wednesday that she would withdraw from consideration for the vacant Senate seat in New York, only to hours later signal that she may be interested in the seat after all." What a fiasco.


 * I saw Brian Wilson in concert a few years ago when he was doing Pet Sounds in its entirety, with a large band doing faithful arrangements. His voice was mostly gone and his stage manner was stiff and awkward, but just to see him up and functioning and in front of people again was very close to a miracle.  Wasted Time R (talk) 05:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Steve Adams
Ring a bell? Not really? It's because, yes, it's interesting  that for a few months.. maybe a year in his adolescence, Cat Stevens was searching for a stage name. However, the name didn't stick. Just like his use of that Stevie Ray Vaughn Fender Telecaster isn't something that clicks in people's head and connects to him. I'll give you that. So, this time, please give this one to me. I went with the removal of any "notable instruments", even when referenced-- to be removed from the infobox. Please. Let us agree to keep Steve Adams IN the infobox but take the references of of the box since it is referenced early in the text, and really is fairly trivial. Please, Tvoz, we have agreed to do quite a few things on the article your way. It appears ugly, and of the few FA and GA articles to reference something there it's so minor. I'm easy to get along with I think. Please, remove the infobox referencing.--leahtwosaints (talk) 00:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You really need to relax, Leah.  Infoboxes have refs in them all the time, including FAs - see Barack Obama, as but one example. I put the refs in precisely because the alias is not well known and people might question it - but not being well-known is not a reason to remove the name, in fact it's a reason to include it.  I don't have a big problem with removing the refs from the infobox since they're in the text, as long as that doesn't lead to removing the name too -  but I think your logic is off.   The point about the notable instruments was not a matter of doing it "my way" - all I did was note how the field is intended to be used in that infobox template, and there were other editor(s) who repeatedly removed the Fender saying the name itself was wrong and he's not known for it. ("Notable instruments" is defined as special instruments the artist is closely associated with, not merely well-known instruments.) This isn't a contest, and I don't have a "way" - just my understanding of policy, guidelines, and precedent, as well as my sense of what looks good and reads well. Take it easy - you're over-reacting here. Tvoz / talk 03:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I do have a lot of personal medical issues, and am stressed out. (sorry bout that part) But that was one thing that had just bugged me for a while. It seems to me that what I think are the best articles have infoboxes to get the basic biographical facts, and the introductions are best to identify notable accomplishments (or sometimes the lack thereof) one of the reasons I feel it's best when possible to avoid too many references in those areas unless you can't get around it. After looking over those parts, and (hopefully) a good photograph, then if a biography is written well, or the reader is interested enough, they'll read the whole article. Anyway, thanks. I despise edit wars or even the hint of them, and unless someone was just WAY WRONG, wouldn't think of reverting. Talking about stuff works so much better. --leahtwosaints (talk) 04:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't see why you think a little superscript number in an infobox in any way detracts from its informative powers - when you look at the actual article (not the edit screen) there's just nothing that takes away from the facts. But I don't think it matters much, as long as the info stays in place. Sorry you're not well - hope things improve.  And hope you can get some photos from the sources you mentioned a while back. Tvoz / talk 05:04, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Search box mysteries
You know, I'm stumped. It's the same code, but its like the search isn't picking up here. I asked on WP:AN here, maybe the new native search doesn't do User talk (which sucks but there's probably a technical reason). rootology ( C )( T ) 05:51, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, thanks for trying - I'll take a look over there but code isn't my strong suit so I may cry for help.... Tvoz / talk 05:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's not us that I can tell. I think it's something internal or back-office, but I could be wrong. rootology ( C )( T ) 05:58, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Bobblehead fixed it. :) rootology ( C )( T ) 06:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you guys! Tvoz / talk 06:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Cool Cat Stevens downloads hidden!
Sis, Here's one of the hidden downloads in the labyrinth of a fansite for Cat Stevens- two performances of Cat and Alun in 1971 on the Old Grey Whistle Test- "If I Laugh", and "Changes IV"- There's a great bunch of audios and stuff in here too.. like Longerboats audio in Granada TV 03 but it's messed up I *think* [Right now I'm listening to an audio of Alun and Cat singing Father and Son (audio).. there's a lot of tour stuff here, but I'm looking through the articles that are, too, if you click the hidden links, and WOW, he gets so many encores... anyway, I'm looking for them, they have a lot of info for the song pages, album pages. If you like, I can try to save you any really great links. I know Patti D'Arbanville said Steven liked puzzles. Wonder since he owns this whole site now with the puzzles and whatnot, if he hid this stuff on purpose for fun? Sometime tomorrow, I should run into the audio of Stevens and Elton John singing "Honeyman" together, and hopefully, a review of it.--leahtwosaints (talk) 21:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ooh -thanks! Probably not ok to include in the article, but I'm looking forward to listening myself! My daughter's a big fan too - of course - I'll tell her to check them out. Tvoz / talk 00:20, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

OK! Here's the entire audio Foreigner:  and "Later" from 1974:  Majic of Magics and O' Caritas! And here is "I Love My Dog"! 

Phil Ochs
Hi. How are you doing?

As you may have noticed, I'm trying to clean up the article and add sources. I'd like to get it up to Good Article status.

Is there any reason why we shouldn't mention Phil's marriage to Alice and Meegan's birth in the section related to that period in his life? I think we can mention Meegan again in the Legacy section, just as we mention Sonny and Michael.

Let me know what you think. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:55, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Barack Obama
You say the time his term ends shouldn't be on there, yet the George W. Bush article was like that for months. I don't see why that shouldn't be included. Thanks. Friginator (talk) 03:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but not less than one week into his first term. See if it fits in the Presidency article - ask over there - it doesn't belong in the main bio at present. Tvoz / talk 04:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Photos of Cat Stevens and Yusuf
Hi Tvoz, We now have one confirmed photo of Cat Stevens in the infobox, and another of Yusuf Islam halfway through the article. I'm working on getting more. A lot of willing photographers find the upload confusing and aren't really trusting of us, since we make them take off the copyright symbol AND the "no commercialism" icon from their photos before we can satisfy our copyright vultures (and, believe it or not, Flickr is even more strict if that's even possible. But these two are nice for starters. If you know anybody in Wikimedia, getting some audio clips would be OUTstanding! Otherwise I'll try to get the one person I know to help with that after we do the album and song pages, if needed. --leahtwosaints (talk) 02:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Gillibrand
I think it's splitting hairs to say that though Sen. Gillibrand was an intern for Sen. D'Amato AND he showed up at her side upon her appointment, we don't want to by chance imply he's a political supporter of hers while reporting the simple fact.

So you don't want to report the fact? Would you have liked it any better if I'd added that she had been his intern? It's over in her article, so I didn't repeat it.

I'm curious.Swliv (talk) 23:02, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to use this?
Tvoz- here's a great long discussion about Cat Stevens songwriting, and I wonder if there's a best way to use it to improve the article. What do you think? --leahtwosaints (talk) 02:14, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting, but I don't really see anything to take from it that we don't already have (I'm just seeing three paragraphs - is there more?). I think  we already have a lot of stuff that are his own take on his work - which I enjoy reading, but think maybe we should be balancing with more of  what other people wrote about his work.  Reviewers, more in-depth articles if there are any, rather than his own self-promo stuff, you know? Tvoz / talk 18:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Question
I got a message that I had performed some edit to "Chelsea" that is considered vandalism. I don't remember making any edit anywhere that was done in bad faith or without what I felt was a bonafide reason. I've looked at the left side and right side comparison text on the link and I can't figure out what it is that I'm supposed to have done--which I'd like to know so I don't do it again. Whatever it was. I feel very bad about this, whatever it was, and probably will simply never try to correct grammar or spelling or anything else again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.250.20 (talk) 18:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * First, the warnings are from November 2007, so perhaps someone else was using the IP then, but here are the links to the edits that provoked the warnings:, ,  , and .  They appear to have been made by someone named Chelsea O., if that helps.   You might consider registering for a personal named account which should prevent your being blamed for anyone else's edits.  If these edits were in fact yours, just understand that this isn't a game - we're trying to build an encyclopedia and no one has the time to clean up after jokes.  But we're a forgiving bunch - if you work from now on in a constructive way, this will be water under the bridge.  Tvoz / talk 18:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Spiro
Hi. The original lyrics were "the speeches of the Governor".

Eliot has the lyrics as "the speeches of Spiro", the 1978 songbook has "the speeches of the President", and I don't remember whether Schumacher has any lyrics.

The YouTube video clearly has "the speeches of the Spiro", and the 1974 single (recorded after Agnew resigned in 1973) has "the speeches of the President".

It's possible that Phil sang both versions, or progressed from one to the other, but I can't imagine he kept singing the Spiro lyrics after his resignation. I wrote what seemed to make sense, but feel free to modify it if you think it should be different. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

PS – I appreciate the copy-editing you're doing. Thanks. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Caylee Anthony
I was not the one who originally removed the material, but I agree with at least some of the edits and removals. As the case is no longer prominently in the public eye, many of the minute details of the investigation no longer seem appropriate to the article. I concede that perhaps some of the information should still be there, but there is also some that should be removed. Much of it, such as the publicity section, should be written in the past tense, because the case is no longer garnering much publicity. Perhaps we can reach a compromise on this issue. Tad Lincoln (talk) 05:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I apologize for that. I just looked at the article again, and I see that quite a bit more had been removed than I realized. I agree that it makes the most sense to revert the article and edit it from there. I'll try to make a few edits of my own where I feel appropriate. Again, I apologize for not looking more closely at how much of the article had actually been removed. Tad Lincoln (talk) 05:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification re: the POV tag. I agree that it should be removed for now. 92708S (talk) 17:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Musicals
Here are our article structure guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musical_Theatre/Article_Structure

Re: cast lists, it says: "For the original Broadway or West End production, there may be a cast list, with notable actors bluelinked, or the casting may be described in prose.... Notable replacement actors can be named.... Other productions should merely name the notable actors and production team members who have Wikipedia articles and can be blue-linked, unless their names are important to an understanding of the musical and its history....  Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

More cat s. music
Hey Tvoz, just check out here: "The Wind", "Just Another Night", and "Child for a Day". My all time find though was the recording of "Later" from his Magicat tour, which is really amazing, I never knew! Tell me if I didn't share it with you. I'm finding all kinds of bootlegs now. leahtwosaints (talk) 03:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The "Ann Dunham" Wikipedia Page
Dear Tvoz, Per suggestion of Ferrylodge, who says you have an interest in this subject, I am forwarding you our talk of this morning on the "Ann Dunham" Wikipedia page.

Canopus44 (talk) 18:24, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll read it over there -thanks for letting me know. Tvoz / talk 18:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI, about.com debunking info passed to RSN-talk
Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard -- Hopefully this kind of work will help the folks over there is some way... Thanks again, Tvoz! kind regards, --guyzero | talk 23:00, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Tvoz! I left you a note at my talkpage... thanks =) --guyzero | talk 22:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Too many #time calls error
See my explanation here. --Bobblehead (rants) 23:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah - but it's not making sense to me, and I tried changing some earlier date formats to no avail. WHy all of a sudden anyway, and why just there? Tvoz / talk 23:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * They added citation/fixdate yesterday so that's why it didn't appear prior to today. I was taking a flier that switching from the ISO date format to the American date format would fix the problem, but looks like that doesn't actually fix the problem. All in all, there isn't anything we can do until they fix the citation template. --Bobblehead (rants) 00:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wasn't me. Remember the dot removed the bit that broke the dates from the template. I just pilfered some code Remember the dot created to flip from the ISO date format to the US date format. --Bobblehead (rants) 02:11, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think ISO date format (YYYY-MM-DD) is coming back. From what I can tell at Template talk:Citation/core several editors have their knickers in a twist about the ISO date format not being "proper" citation date format, so they are trying to deprecate its use. That's why you would periodically see a date that was entered into the date and accessdate fields as 2009-02-10 displaying as 10 February 2009. If you don't want to type out MDY, you can still enter in YMD and just use Remember the dot's script to clean up after yourself. If you want to use that technique, just past the following into your monobook.js   It will add two links to your Toolbox when you edit articles, one saying "Format ISO dates in American style" the other saying "Format ISO dates in international style". --Bobblehead (rants) 02:33, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Help with cite format
Thanks for the message -- sorry I can't help, I am not that expert in the inner workings of templates and code stuff. Have you asked at WP:VPT? – ukexpat (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link to Template talk:Citation/core. I can safely say that I understood approximately 1% of that page's content, but I am pleased the problem is in capable hands! – ukexpat (talk) 03:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Dunham House
I think the house is relevant, because it has had presidents stay there... Grover cleveland etc. Grover Cleveland was friends with William Riley Dunham.... A President Obama was highly interested in its history when he visited the house....His wife plans to visit with the girls and may use it as a get away???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silo4u (talk • contribs) 17:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's mildly interesting, but extremely minor for biographies of these people's lives and careers.  You might want to write a separate article about it and see if it will fly, if you have reliable sources, other than their own promotional material, talking about it. Tvoz / talk 00:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Timothy Hutton
Quite frankly, one of the reasons I looked into it is that the name "Tarquin" sounds fairly odd and I can't figure out why Hutton would have it. It's rare as a last name - only 7 "Tarquins" on the U.S. census in 1930 - and it's not Hutton's mother's maiden name. I never saw this middle name listed for Hutton anywhere (including the IMDB) before it was added to Wikipedia in 2007. IMDB often adds birthnames/dates shortly after Wikipedia does (for example, Michael Shannon's birthdate was only put up on the IMDB two weeks after I added it to the Wiki article). My guess is, it's a case of something being posted on here that gained legitimacy after being repeated on dozens of websites - a situation I've seen over and over again. Yes, The NY Times and other reliable sources do make mistakes sometimes; however, that doesn't change the fact that at their core they are reliable sources, while the IMDB is at its core an unreliable source because biographical information, as well as birth dates and names, are often changed and/or added because of user suggestions and submissions. All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 07:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno - I suppose if you really want to take out the "T", I'm not going to object much (Maybe the "T." is his middle name? Some people do have only a middle initial). All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Lucy in the Sky issue
I would appreciate your opinion at Talk:Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds that might help avoid an edit war. Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 16:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

You maybe interested in the Article Rescue Squadron

 * I just did! And I encourage like-minded friends to do the same.  Saving the project, one article at a time.  Tvoz / talk 20:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the Article Rescue Squadron!
I love your enthusiasm, it is contageous! I am sure you will be a valuable member of the squadron. Ikip (talk) 21:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * see also: Wikipedia_talk:Article_Rescue_Squadron thanks for the great idea. Ikip (talk) 21:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

email
Received, thanks. I've commented at Talk:Bee Gees as to what I think is the correct approach to this issue. I'd forgotten my previous encounter with WillOakland, but then it was a year ago! Let's hope this will result in a constructive approach to improving the article. -- Rodhull andemu  18:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks - it certainly can stand improving, but -as you said - butchery doesn't feel right. Actually - I didn't realize at first that your encounter was a year ago - I saw a February exchange on the topic on his talkpage, and only when I was trying to find it did I realize it was February 2008!  Well, you know, plus ça change, plus c'est le même chose.  Cheers Tvoz / talk 20:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

B Sides
When you reinstated the US info in The Beatles singles, you dropped the UK B sides and didn't supply the US B sides. Having the B sides is valuable because many of those songs are not on albums and thus hard to find. John Cardinal (talk) 17:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I assumed the B side removal was inadvertent. It won't be easy to get back to a version that includes both the B sides and the US releases because of the various changes that occurred since the US releases were removed. Maybe we should restore the UK B sides from a recent version and the US releases from the last version that had both A and B sides? BTW, I'm in favor of including the US releases, but that's just one opinion. &mdash; John Cardinal (talk) 03:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Publisher
Disscussion Moved -It is now posted at Cent at Talk:Inauguration_of_Barack_Obama. When the publisher is different enough to have a separate article leave them in. E.G. publisher = The New York Times Company regadless of whether the work is Boston Globe or The New York Times. In both cases the publisher has a separate article. Likewise for The Washington Post Company.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think that's the criterion - see Template:Cite news which specifica;ly mentions The New York Times as an example when we don't include publisher. It's really not particularly useful - yes, I would leave it in for Boston Globe, but not for NYT.  See Talk:SandyGeorgia too, where I'm talking to some folks about this.  It just makes the ref section that much harder to read when it's loaded with the publisher, and as I say, doesn't seem useful for a reference section.  Tvoz / talk 21:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I can tell you almost for certain, that there is and will be no consensus. I have been through the debate numerous times.  I had a Jan WP:TFA formatted with tons of linked publishers and anticipate a March WP:TFA formatted similarly.  Would you mind just re-adding the publisher in any cases where it is a distinct article from the work?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have never tried to set up a centralized discussion. This is an important enough and far-reaching enough issue that I am going to try that.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:16, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This discussion is now posted at Cent at Talk:Inauguration_of_Barack_Obama.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:26, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, sure - I don't want to work at cross purposes, and will be glad to participate in a conversation about this. I am mostly interested in streamlining what are often very long reference sections, keeping the important and useful information and reducing some of the less relevant - this being a prime example.  So let's see what we can come up with. Tvoz / talk 22:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Feel free to continue doing your streamlining of the refs. I'll go along with the new paradigm.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Tvoz / talk 04:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ever since this debate, everyone has stopped working on the article. What is going on?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:59, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

← Um - I don't have any idea - haven't looked today at the FAC (or anywhere else) - has anyone said anything more over there? I know there were a load of comments by Karanacs a few days back, but haven't followed it closely enough to see if they were valid and/or addressed yet. You know how things sometimes go in waves - and sometimes FAC takes a while. I suppose you could ask people at Talk:BO or the BO Presidency article to have a look, but be careful about what you wish for, as you may get less than helpful feedback and more problems rather than more help. I personally would bide my time and keep working away at improving the piece without worrying about time, but that's up to you. I'll try to get back to it today - have been working on a few other things. Tvoz / talk
 * There are a lot of comments on the talk FAC discussion about the refs. Some were specific to the publisher.  I thought I would let you handle them, since the discussion on publishers has gone your way.  Let me know if this is a problem.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:33, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I notice you are editing, but you are not making any notes on the FAC discussion to show what you have done. Please do so, so that we can monitor progress.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Tony, I'm not really able to commit to a full-fledged push to FA for this article right now - I noticed some wording and reference issues that I have tried to correct, and will continue to look at that as I can, but I'm not sure it's ready for FA and it's a big job to try to bring it up to those standards. I actually haven't been working from the FAC lists of complaints, but rather from the article itself, where I see problems.  Also not sure I agree with all of the points at the FAC, and I'm not really ready to give the kind of time required to fight it out.  So I hope some others will help out on this.   Tvoz / talk 03:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I shouldn't have dragged you into my FAC mess. I will be unwatching this page now. Feel free to come help as you can.  It seems several people are interested in this article and we may have a shot. Come by and take part if you have any time.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 08:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't be discouraged - often FAC is a mess, and you didn't drag me in! I'll try to help out on it as I can.  Will post this on your talk too. Tvoz / talk 18:03, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have started Peer review/Inauguration of Barack Obama/archive1‎. I will be continuing to work on the article. Hopefully, over the course of the month while this is at PR we can get it cleaned up enough for FAC.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

If I told you...
You know the old caveat... but I'll tell you anyway :) To put an edit notice on a page, you first put on the page (exactly that way, don't substitute the page's name for "pagename"), then preview it. This creates a red link to the page that will hold the edit notice. Click on the red link. (You're done with the original page, you just wanted to preview it to get the editnotice address, you don't want to save it). Type the edit notice, preview it, save it, and you're good to go. See Editnotice. I believe that only an administrator can actually create an editnotice, as the editnotice space is protected, but a non-administrator can create one on the editnotice talk page and signal an administrator to place it (the instructions are on Editnotice).   - Nunh-huh 07:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! Tvoz / talk 19:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Barack Obama FAR
nominated Barack Obama for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. -- Avi (talk) 20:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh. Yes,I saw. In light of this screed published today, I think this FAR is ill-timed, as the need for temporary full protection is likely traceable to that. Overall, I think article probation has handled disruption  well and there has not been full protection since well before the election, other than pre-emptively on election day and Inauguration Day. Let things settle down after the flurry of drive-bys ends and see how we're doing then, would be my suggestion. Tvoz / talk 21:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What I am afraid of is that if not addressed openly and forthrightly, these issues will get "swept under the rug." Further, I'm afraid that drive-by political crackpots will not leave this article until Obama is out of office, and 4-8 years is a long time to "let things settle". Being that an FAR must take at least two weeks, you do not think that reasonable people can make reasonable edits during that time? -- Avi (talk) 21:16, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think these issues have been swept under any rug in the past two years, and I don't think they will be now. We have always had people with different perspectives working on this article, but we've managed - especially since probation came in - to do it more or less collegially. Today's activity is not reflective of the way things have been for much of the time, and I'm not talking about waiting 4-8 years either. This surge is due to the WND piece, and productive discussion is not all that likely under these circumstances, in my opinion.  Tvoz / talk 21:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Tvoz. I hope you don't mind my posting here. Whether the article was being edited collegially or not, the result was a scrubbed, promotional piece that reads like a press release. The article omits any and all criticism and controversy. As a reknowned POV pusher noted, mention of Rev. Wright somehow "slipped" out of the article and into a footnote. Whatever the reason for the attention that has been brought to the Obama article, it should be fixed with appropriate balance and links to other articles dealing with notable issues. Until then it should at the very least have a neutrality tag on it to indicate there is a dispute.  Cheers. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:33, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * You're more than welcome to post here any time, CoM, but I very much disagree with you - as I'm sure you know. The article has not been without attention for several years, so this recent swarm is not illuminating things that we have not considered. We've discussed various matters multiple times, with different editors on all sides, and have adjusted the article according to consensus many times. Of course we want balance - but balance does not mean giving excess weight to something that is actually a minor part of a person's entire life story, just for the sake of balance. Wright has been in and out of the text (and in and out of the footnotes accordingly) numerous times - and I can make arguments for both positions. In the heat of the primaries and general election campaigns, Wright seemed perhaps more central to Obama's life story than he did later on; in fact he virtually disappeared from mainstream discussion some time ago and I think moved into a more appropriate position in this article. The campaign articles would have more, and the separate dedicated articles the most, of course. Tvoz / talk 02:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I appreciate your welcome and your comments. I would just point out that notability doesn't expire, and there is lots of less notable content in the article than Obama's long term relationships with Wright, Rezko, and perhaps to a lesser degree Ayers. To omit mention of them all together or key details, like for example that Rezko was one of Obama's biggest fundraisers, or the speeches and change of position with regard to Wright seems problematic. There's also no mention of the surge. No mention of Obama's school being private. No mention of criticisms or controversies with regard to the surge, the spending bill, any of Obama's controversial comments, campaign tactics, experience issue etc. etc. And it's not like there isn't room when there's poorly sourced and misleading stuff as in the last section about some professor's theory about Elevation, for example. It just looks biased which is why it was reported on by outside sources. And frankly, I think the article is embarassing and I would like to help fix it. But there doesn't seem to be any willingness to balance it from those who work on the page and like you are quite happy with the way it is.  I think that's a big mistake and when any effort to add anything that isn't glowing is immediately reverted it amounts to censorship. And it's nice that people point out there are article on some of these issues, but they aren't linked to in a useful way.ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Problem with Caylees Anthony article
Hi there, sorry to bother you. There is a problem I am having with a user who keeps reverting the article back to an edit he made without proper citation. I have deleted it, telling him it is irrelevant and uncited, but he keeps putting it back and has said that I cannot tell him what to do or tell him what is and is not relevant. No one else seems to be doing anything with the article right now, and I could really use some help from a more experienced editor in dealing with this situation. Thanks. Tad Lincoln (talk) 01:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Tad - I haven't looked in there recently, so I don't know what you're referring to - but I'll take a look. Tvoz / talk 02:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your help in this matter, and I realize my actions are not exactly exemplary. The problems is that no one else seems to really be working with that article right now, so I wasn't really sure how to handle it. I don't even know where the "15 houses" thing came from, but the other editor's reasoning for changing it to "20 houses" appears to be that he looked the location up on Google Earth and found that the location was actually 20 houses away from the Anthony house. I'm not even sure if this is true, but, even if it is, it seems to me that it would be considered original research. I propose simply saying that the remains were found "near" the house, even though I know that that is relatively vague. I'll check again, but I don't believe that there are sources saying that her remains were found 20 houses away. One of my main points, though, is that the number of houses seems pretty irrelevant. When I say this, however, the other editor responds not by arguing its relevancy, but simply by saying that I cannot tell him what is and is not relevant. That is why I was hoping that I could get a third opinion, so it's not just an argument between two people. Tad Lincoln (talk) 23:17, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to ARS!
{| style="border: 2px solid #CC3333; padding: 6px; width: 80%; min-width: 700px; background: lightsteelblue; line-height: 20px; cellpading=30" align=center Hi,, welcome to the Article Rescue Squadron WikiProject! We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying and rescuing articles and content that have been nominated for deletion. Every day hundreds of articles are deleted, many rightfully so. But many concern notable subjects and are poorly written, ergo fixable, and should not be deleted. We try to help these articles and content to quickly improve and address the concerns of why they are proposed for deletion. This covers a lot of ground and your help is appreciated!
 * colspan="2" |

Cat Stevens/Yusuf article
Hey Tvoz, I was just wondering if you knew about the newly released Yusuf Islam/Klaus Voorman project with a George Harrison song, here: I think it's called "Yusuf and Klaus". I noticed that the banner for the albums, ect. is no longer on the article. ?

I added a few tiny changes. Found out in the groupie book by Pamela DesBarres that has a chapter read by Patti D'Arbanville that Stevens wrote "Maybe You're Right" and "Just Another Night" for her, as well.. I put it in the article. And still seeking a decent photo. There is one that's awesome here: Şəkil:Yusuf Islam1.jpg from the Azerbaijani Wikipedia page. Not sure how to place it on our page but it's great. (Always a problem when another language writes from right to left in another alphabet). --leahtwosaints (talk) 14:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I added the photo I mentioned above halfway down. I am unsure about copyright considerations, though other Wikipedias (in other languages) are using it, I don't see the link to Wikimedia yet). Maybe you'll know if it is copyvio and was ever removed? --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:37, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry...
Didn't know I couldn't change that Dereks1x page. Allison cleared my name and I keep seeing Douchebagsx1 posting crap about me months later calling me "the sock farmer behind Derecks1x". One of them happens to be "Klemm" the person I called a CU in the first place that started the "Ban 94" crap.

Funny because that "Klemm" person reappeared a week ago and every post it made was to call me a sock...Pretty damn knowledgble in terms of language and rules and past feuds of the site for "new" member or Wikipedia. don't ya think?

Again, sorry for changing it....Just getting sick of Douchebagsx using it to say "you are a sock"... --seattlehawk94 (talk) 12:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That's why it says The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Request for checkuser. Please do not modify it. on the top of the page. As for Dereks1x socks attempting to disguise themselves as innocent victims of persecution, I have nothing to say at the moment. Tvoz / talk 20:17, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

"That's why it says The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Request for checkuser. Please do not modify it. on the top of the page."

Dude I said I didn't know, okay....I didn't read any of that on the top of that page, said I was sorry no need to be snarky about it...--seattlehawk94 (talk) 17:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ok, fair enough. Tvoz / talk 00:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Criminal Intent episode list
Hiya. Regarding actor information, I've replied at Talk:List of Law & Order: Criminal Intent episodes. Regards, Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 07:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Natasha Richardson
Thanks for the supporting reply to my comments about Richardson's death and notability! Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem - I call 'em as I see 'em... Meanwhile, I have no idea why some people are so keen on including trivial details  that clearly  don't belong there.  I mean, really, the ambulance company supervisor's name? Tvoz / talk 07:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Main.
Basically it's the same as we keep for the infobox list on the main LOST page. If they were credited as a main cast member in the opening credits, they're a main character. I mean, we could argue that Libby never had her own centric episode so should she really be considered? Ya know? Other editors kept the main LOST page infobox like that, so I'm presuming we'd keep the characters page like that. I mean, honestly, if you deleted it again, I most likely wouldn't revert it, but someone else may come along and do it for the reason(s) I've touched on above. Hope this helps? --HELLØ   ŦHERE 02:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course. Thank you for at least having an argument as opposed to some editors "DO NOT REVERT MY EDITS I WILL KILL YOU"  Ha ha.  Or just randomly blanking any pages I have or work on.  I look forward to working with you again in the future.  --HELLØ    ŦHERE 03:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

wondering..
Do you know anyone who knows how to place sound bites on pages? Cat Stevens should surely be a candidate. --leahtwosaints (talk) 21:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd love to have some sound bites, but I'm not your gal - sorry. Maybe someone who reads here will be able to help out. And I'll let you know if I think of anyone. Tvoz / talk 20:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Abuse
Hello, I was recently banned and then rebanned for a fortnight and then banned from contacting others or even writing on my own talk page. I feel that serious abuses have occurred and my account clearly shows who was abusing their tools. The final block of me being able to even write on my own talk page about how I was blocked unjustly and the inherent problems that I could spot in the process really took the cake and I think that moderator named Tarc (but the others too) need to be seriously reprimanded and even stripped of their tools because this was serious abuse of power and it was taken to an excessive level that shows clear abuse I think. Can you please advise me on what to do to follow up on this because I believe this is of the highest importance to wikipedia integrity. Thank you. JohnHistory (talk) 19:46, 29 March 2009 (UTC)JohnHistory
 * See your talk page for my response. Tvoz / talk 21:24, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I won't continue this because you do want to be involved but since this just happened I wanted to tell you. My discussion on the photos at the Obama page was just labeled a "rant" and archived. This is a systemic problem and I am totally outgunned. I am honestly just trying to help create an objective encyclopedia. It just so happens that it appears the Left is opposing this. If it were the Right I would be doing the exact same thing with them. I don't know what to do when I can't even be allowed to have a discussion. I feel like all I can do is try to find a reasonable Admin. Sorry if I'm bothering you. I promise I won't engage you on this anymore. JohnHistory (talk) 21:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)JohnHistory

The haunting
Sorry I had to remind you of WB74. It certainly feels eerily like his spirit has returned, doesn't it? There are definitely a few new(ish) folks hanging around who remind me of the illustrious bee, or K4T, or Andyvphil et al. :::-shiver-::: -- Scjessey (talk) 11:03, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Bernanke
Hi Tvoz: There is a discussion started here, as well:. Cheers, JNW (talk) 22:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of Bernanke, I've blocked your IP friend for one day for harrassment, personal attacks, etc. Keep up the good work! TN X Man  19:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! He seems to have quite a bug up his ass, if you'll excuse the expression.  Just saw that he had posted his screed on my user page too - hope the block will allow him to find some other entertainment. Tvoz / talk 19:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Michelle Obama FAC1
You are one of the leading editors of Michelle Obama and may want to participate in the discussions at Featured article candidates/Michelle Obama/archive1.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Do feel free to start the FL section. I will certainly add things.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am having trouble which FAC issues you resolved and which you did not. Can you comment on the fac.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Also please lend your opinion on the proposed template on the talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Revert the Michelle's you think should be reverted and I'll have a look.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you want to take an axe to the DNC speech section. I have trouble chopping my own work. I appreciate your efforts with the Queen section.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Noticed you're on the article rescue group
Tvoz, I need your help for two projects in danger. One is the Alun Davies page which has been largely ignored. I got a message about a strip of the 5 people including Davies, that I uploaded, from his second album prior to meeting Cat Stevens. It appears I need to add info to rationalize a copyright image. Who might know where or how to add info, like the photos of him, Nicky Hopkins, and Jon Mark from that period? I have great rationales but don't know how to go about it!!

I'm also trying to rescue Scrapomatic a duo who open for The Derek Trucks Band. I've been waiting for enough info and esp. the photos of the DTB members- (I now have all but the drummer and am trying to work on making Derek Trucks and his band separate entities. I thought whoever began the article on th Scrapomatic duo (which includes Derek Trucks Band lead singer Mike Mattison was working on iy-- and then discover the other duo member, Paul Olsen, is linked to a non-musician with that name! Can you help save Scrapomatic, at least at Start level? I can scroubge a band phoroAnd help me find someone to tell me how to save the one existing pic of Davies & bankrupt bandmates? Sorry, my right arm went totally numb and unusable about 2 weeks ago- and I'm really NOT left handed or left anything!

Also, in placing all those photos I found great bavds, artists like ELP, John Mayall, Little Feat, the Allman Brothers Band, Buddy Guy, etc, have close to nothing on so many classic performers? I was shocked! And that was before I put photos up for them, and Jeff Beck!! Still looking for more of Yusuf! thanks! --leahtwosaints (talk) 07:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Deleted my talk bits?
I'm sorry, but could you explain why you deleted half of what I said on the talk page here? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Rainbow_cookie&curid=14916644&diff=283713235&oldid=283663286 Thanks. Luminifer (talk) 04:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I have no idea how I managed to do that - but I fixed it. Thanks for the note. Tvoz / talk 04:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Rainbow Ochs
Glad to see we can at least agree on Phil Ochs. :) Luminifer (talk) 17:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you think this has any importance for the article?
Re: Cat Stevens, I found this on You Tube, and wonder if it's something that was a Cat Stevens project, or an individual's creation-- it's a video with clips from Dr Seuss' "The Lorax", featuring, "Where Will the Children Play?" by Cat Stevens. Any value, you think? --leahtwosaints (talk) 17:17, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * found the link - replied on your talk Tvoz / talk 18:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Point made. I just thought, if there was a Suess "Lorax" TV show, and he'd done it around the time of '70-71, it would've been a project that Cat would have liked around the "Harold and Maude" period, you know? His love of kids; the wealth of material. So maybe if he had done a little kids' special then maybe you would've read about it, maybe on that Majicat.com website or something. Just wanted to include all his stuff. I'm still trying to figure out how he and Elton John came to collaborate on that song, "Honeyman" which definitely is him and John together circa 1971- and a clip of that IS on Majicat. Check this out: THAT is worthy of mention. Wonder if there's mention of it in an Elton bio, or something. Sonner of later if we want an FA article out of that piece, we'll need to cover the discographies, which I'm willing to learn (I can do a half-assed job) and I need to ask a couple of Commons editors about sound bites, but I guess I'd have to shlep over to a library or (used?) book store to find those books about Cat Stevens -esp. the one that won that award! --to really complete the article. If I did get books for the piece (I've been thinking about it), I'd photocopy key pages from the books and mail them to you if you wanted. (My email address is here leah2saints@yahoo.com if ever it is helpful.) Anyway, any ideas about "Honeyman"? --leahtwosaints (talk) 21:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops. Wasn't sure if you'd get this since I didn't indent after your comment to me. Hey did I tell you that my father gave me a book about Wikipedia for Christmas, which I haven't got to reading yet, written by User: John Broughton, with the same little fancy signature he uses here on Wikipedia? Neat to see a name I recognize, ;)) Funny.--leahtwosaints (talk) 21:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

gosh I do feel silly now, since I didn't indent, it alerted me I had a message, which is mine to you, so I've brought it here, just in case. --leahtwosaints (talk) 22:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Natalie Wood
Hi there. Nice to see you - it has been a while. Thanks for stepping in and reverting. I notice the user talk page is full of warnings. I guess blanking them doesn't make them go away after all ;-) Rossrs (talk) 10:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The other image? Yes, I noticed it, and I was hoping that by removing it, it would be deleted as an orphan.  It's not acceptable use in my opinion.   There's no real attempt at a fair use rationale, so it's purely decorative, and the source says that it's from "the film".   I doubt that.  It's such a clear and well composed image that it looks more like a staged promotional shot than a randomly chosen screenshot, which always have a certain grainy look, especially if it's from an older film.   I'll keep an eye on it.   Thanks.   I missed the Washington Post article until I came here.   That's really amazing, and I have to congratulate you.   You make all of us look good, so thank you for that too!  Rossrs (talk) 07:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

sure
correct away. no problem. DGG (talk) 05:03, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Arlen Specter
At the time the article didn't fulfil all B Class Criteria, so I reassessed - I didn't think that required explanation, and the areas for improvements were, I thought, lined out by the page itself. It's true that the page improved, but for a B Class I'd say the leftover references tag should be addressed. For someone else's assessment just put the article on the WPBio Assessment page or ask someone from the project. Thank you. Hekerui (talk) 07:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Request
You are good with wording and stuff. Mind if I ask you for help with the Stacey Castor article? See the talk page of that article to see what I mean. Right now it seems that the main "problem" is the Early life section. But I feel that it is fine now. Any help you can do to that section or any other part of the article would be much appreciated by me. If you are too busy to help, that is fine as well (of course).

Nice to meet you, too, by the way. I apologize is asking a request not long after us formally meeting seems off. Flyer22 (talk) 04:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Specter
Please see Talk: Arlen Specter regarding my response. (Mattwashdc (talk) 12:31, 30 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Thanks - I'll take a look. Tvoz / talk 19:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

"At this hour it's amazing I can even put two sentences together." Tell me about it. Heroin, heroin, heroin, but no one ever talks about Wikipedia. ;-) Somercet (talk) 16:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha tall me about it. That was after 4AM NY time. Tvoz / talk 19:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: April 2009
What the fuck are you talking about? All I added was a missing space between words. Learn to read. 69.221.144.79 (talk) 00:24, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * MANY APOLOGIES - I don't know how I did that - must have looked at a different IP's edit twice and thought one was yours - but I was 100% wrong! (Although that was one hell of a space you corrected..... ) Sorry, really. I'm removing the incorrect template. Tvoz/talk 00:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry if I blew up on you... all is fine. 69.221.144.79 (talk) 00:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Philip Markoff (part VII)
Well it's that time of the day and it seems that Theo789 is back to "fix" the article. Complete with edit summaries like (Stop removing this info on the defense to slant the article.) I was thinking of posting over to WP:BLP/N, just a plea for some additional eyes and comments. Just thought I'd run it by you for a second opinion.--Cube lurker (talk) 15:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unlike other days he only made a few edits and then left. Still I'll try to work up a post before the day ends.--Cube lurker (talk) 18:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I created a draft post here User_talk:Cube_lurker/Sandbox. That look ok?--Cube lurker (talk) 19:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Posted here Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard--Cube lurker (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

past tense of "plead" per Bartleby in Philip Markoff
Using your plea for consistency as a starting point, and building on your citing Bartleby, which I have read, where it states plainly that "the media almost always uses pled to report a defendant’s actions: The defendant pled [not] guilty.", I have changed the past tense of the verb "to plead" to say "pled" throughout the article. Regards, Tomertalk 08:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Help!!
Tvoz, please see the last comment on my talk page about Alun Davies, it is now an orphaned article, since I'm the only author I got this message and they took away the Discography photos, and now, I think at the very least the only photo I have of Davies from ANYPLACE which is the cover of his album. As the only author of the article thus far, I think they are intending to vote to delete it as well. Please help, read the note! --leahtwosaints (talk) 14:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton GAR
Hillary Rodham Clinton has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Discussions have been moved to Good article reassessment/Hillary Rodham Clinton/3.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf's mailing list
Tvoz, are you on Yusuf's mailing list? I really hope so, because, in ad admitted frenzy of begging for, and then uploading photos to Commons, and placing infoboxes and said photos in them, I've been fairly busy. I can't believe all the articles that were missing (and some still are) basic photos, and this is supposed to be an encyclopedia- how are folks supposed to know what or who is being discussed without photographs??! Anyway, placing the photos sidetracks me, and since you are the lead editor for Cat Stevens, and maybe I contribute the next amount after you, I'm hoping you keep up with his 'news' and current activities and are watching the page. Please tell me you are. Thanks. (I've nearly got this photo thing out of my system), --leahtwosaints (talk) 11:13, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course I'm watching the page - and keeping it honest! But no, I'm not on the mailing list. Not sure we want to have up-to-the-minute reports on his activities in his bio, but I don't mind hearing about them and seeing what's appropriate. Where's the sign-on? Tvoz / talk 23:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, that's sort of a relief. I've uploaded (I think) over 500 photos to Commons and placed all but a handful of them on Wikipedia. It's kind of gratifying to see all these other language Wikipedia using the photos now too- that quick! I said "I think" just because when I was first learning, I accidentally uploaded the same photos a couple of times. BUT. Now, about Yusuf, you really should join his mailing list. I don't get more than maybe one month an email about an interview, performance, or new album. It doesn't spam you. I just went to his website, which looks awful today, I just looked. Really commercial! WTF? Anyway, they make it really easy to find and sign up for it. Just look. --leahtwosaints (talk) 23:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Phil Ochs GA
That was the most painless GA I've ever seen. Congratulations. — Malik Shabazz 17:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know - over before it began! Thanks and congrats go to you for bringing new energy to the article and getting it to this point! Tvoz / talk 18:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. — Malik Shabazz 20:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Tact
Thank you for your kind words. Happy editing! Un sch  ool  06:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Move
I have moved User Tvoz:Temp to User:Tvoz/Temp. And this page is badly overdue for archiving - try the MiszaBot. &mdash; RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, gettin' on that archiving Real Soon Now. No thanks about the bot though. I don't do bots.  Tvoz / talk 04:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Thanks
On behalf of WP:CHICAGO I want to thank you for your hard editorial work. Feel free to display the following userbox: --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Tony. Tvoz / talk 03:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf stuff
Hey woman, I found two emails buried in another email address that I try to ignore. One was like, an ad for Roadsinger, which said: Yusuf, the artist known as Cat Stevens, returns on May 5th with his long-anticipated new album, Roadsinger. List from Amazon.com with a bonus track Scroll down on the link there, you'll find a video interview with Yusuf Islam and Alun Davies. Then, it says in the email,: "Recorded in studios across the world, Roadsinger features 11 brand new songs in the classic Cat Stevens style. Special guests include James Morrison, Gunnar Nelson and Michelle Branch. Following his headline appearance at Island Record's 50th Anniversary show recently, Yusuf is set to appear in a BBC documentary about the legendary label. Yusuf was interviewed for the programme alongside his longtime guitarist Alun Davies. The documentary, entitled 'Keep on Running: 50 Years of Island Records', will be aired on 5 June at 9pm on BBC Four. Further details can be found here- BBC Four Article

The other is an email from (I think his publicist). Asking kindly if we would keep his page up to date with the Roadsinger stuff, and providing this article link: Preview of Roadsinger It appears that because it's Island Records' 50th Anniversary, and Yusuf really provided the first real hits for Island with the now-famous trio of records that were his best, they are giving him more attention... Yusuf playing the Shepherds Bush Empire on May 28th as part of the series of Island 50 concerts.

Well, that's about it. I just wanted to remember to send it to you as you know the most about the article. --leahtwosaints (talk) 14:12, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes - I have this info. Of course we would prefer to have third-party sources talking about his new work rather than relying too much on his own website - any reviews, interviews, etc would be great sources. Tvoz / talk 17:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

About Sotomayor
While at Princeton she wrote a thesis titled, "Deadly Obsession: American Gun Culture"where she argues that the Second Amendment does not actually afford individual citizens the right to bear arms. She believes that the military, not the people, have this right. In this thesis she states that, it has been illegal for individuals to own firearms since the passing of the Bill of Rights. [ http://www.infowars.com/sotomayor-on-the-supreme-court-a-gun-grabbers-dream-come-true/ ] 

This is my last revision, and it was deleted also.

I tried to put in the piece without the links - it was rejected. I tried to revise it and repaste it with references - it was rejected. I tried to add more references and repaste it - it was rejected.

By a guy who, on his own User talk site, claims to be anti-fox (which is understandable), pro-msnbc (which makes him dumb), a liberal (which shows he is decieved with the false left/right paradiem), a left wing capitalist (which shows him to be very confused), pro-drugs (which explains alot), pro-tax, anti-religion, and supports the NAU (but will insist that it doesn't exist).

But most notable, this IDIOT is an ANTI-GUN nut and voted for Obama, which is why any attempt to show Sotomayor, the Obama, Supreme Court nominee, as a gun grabber is being blocked. He knows that a MASSIVE MAJORITY of our country is PRO-2nd Amendment and would be very upset to learn that Obama's pick for Suprmem Court justice believes that the 2nd Amendment makes gun ownership illegal. Talk about the inability to read and comprehend English. This is information that needs to get out before her hearing so she can be asked about her position. But politically driven NUTS like TharsHammar are editing Wiki to hide this fact about this nominee. What a disgrace!!! Are you gonna let this happen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by FreeinTX (talk • contribs) 20:35, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI tvoz, he is trying to add an internet rumor to a BLP. That is a no go. TharsHammar Bits andPieces 20:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, Thars, the carefully reasoned post above made that pretty clear to me. Needless to say, without reliable sourcing it is not going in. To Freein TX, if the only sourcing you can find are blogs, you might want to consider whether these claims are actually true, and please don't attack other editors on my talk page, or anywhere else. TharsHammar's reverts were valid and consistent with BLP policy. Tvoz / talk 23:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf and music clips
Check out this clip from YouTube with the second half having to do with one of Yusuf's songs, and his dialouge about it:. Have been sick lately, so I've been limiting myself to very humdrum things mostly. (I may be back in hospital sometime very soon, like tomorrow?) Also, another editor says he believes he can make sound clips for Cat Stevens. You can read some of our conversation at my talk page. I asked him to either do it or show me (us?) how; and in return, I'm looking for some photos for him, which is great. I asked for, "The First Cut is the Deepest", "Wild World", "Father and Son", and "Peace Train", all of which have pages, and information, and I believe are representative of some of Cat Stevens' most essential work. He's also good with doing album and song pages, and I did mention that you were involved in the page before me.--leahtwosaints (talk) 05:32, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Editing study
Hi Tvoz. I'm a doctoral student in mass communication at Indiana University and I'm doing some research on the editing of Wikipedia. One of the articles I am studying is Barack Obama. My questions in the study are about the editing process on high-profile current affairs articles and how that editing changes over time. As part of the study I would like to do some group discussions with editors. I was hoping you might be interested in participating. I would like to have discussions via skype with three or four editors at a time who work(ed) together on the same article. The conversation would be 30 minutes to an hour. If you are interested I could send a summary of the project and other stuff the university requires me to send. If interested you could drop a note on my talk page. Thanks for considering this. lyonspen | (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the quick reply Tvoz, but I'm not seeing e-mail in the toolbox. lyonspen | (talk) 18:03, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

belt and suspenders
fyi, I was about to fix that. Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha - yeah, there is such a thing as overkill.... Thanks for keeping it all straight! Tvoz / talk 05:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Computer that is far more lazy and inept than me
Been meaning to contact you. I need your help. This computer only allows the uttermost basic use. I can't splice images; download most things and so forth. So I am asking you to help me archive my talk page, just till May. Will you do it? And, while you are there, perhaps you would like some input into the song clips being made by another editor, I upload photos and build infoboxes for his projects, and he helps with Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam/Yusuf. He is really, really good. I'd like to show Yusuf's slow return to music, but am concerned if the music from the perfomance he gave here: It was the first time he was seen performing with the guitar and left the quote about drawing people in by pleasing music. Your feedback? --leahtwosaints (talk) 22:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I did the archive - it's really easier than you think and does not involve anything more complicated than cut and paste. No downloading - I already created skeleton archive pages which are ready for you to paste stuff in - you should try it next time.   On the clips - don't know what you're asking.  I'm not clear on current policy regarding clips and fair use - maybe you can ask at one of the project pages. This  and images are two things I stay away from here.  I know that using You Tube has long been a problem (although I don't agree with the concern myself) - but I don't know what anyone would say about taking an audio clip of this one - the copyright status is unclear to me.  Nor do I know how people feel about using many audio clips in one article. As I say, I stay away from all of this - not my interest area, and I have enough controversial areas to worry about.  Tvoz / talk 03:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK. That's fine. Funny we are heading in different directions, even though I know so little- I've uploaded and placed hundreds of images for various pages now. Suede67 is a really nice guy I bumped into, and he's willing to do clips. Don't worry then about the technicalities of the song clips now, then, as Spinningspark is really good in that category and is an Admin. here, so I'll ask him about that. What songs would you feel would be most representative of all 3 of the Cat Stevens personae? I mean, look at the Clapton article, if you want to see the progression of sound. It is after all, not just a political piece (your territory), but a musician work group piece.
 * Other than that, should you want any images without the IFs and Hows, I'll be happy to do it, another trick I finally learned. I have no aspirations here, just want to see good articles. I bounce from place to place mostly creating infoboxes, adding photos, copyediting for grammar, and style as best I can, and such these days.--leahtwosaints (talk) 09:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's the nice thing about Wikipedia - there's always someone who's interested in working on exactly what you're not interested in working on - so the trick is just to find those kind souls! Off the top of my head - I think we need to add "Peace Train" which is an emblematic song, definitely keep "First Cut" and "Wild World"; I'd like to see "Father & Son" and "Indian Ocean" added -  "F&S" because it spans his career from original recording to the Ronan Keating recording, and "IO" because it was the first Yusuf secular release that got any attention.  "Later" is ok, or could be swapped with "Oh Very Young" or just add "OVY".  What do you think?  Tvoz / talk 00:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You have SO read my mind, it's amazing. I picked:

"The First Cut is the Deepest" "Trouble" -- wanting to show his time with TB "Wild World"-- first American AND Euro success "Peace Train" -- most associated with him "A is for Allah" -- want to show his path from instruments "Indian Ocean" -- and then his path back "Father and Son"-- Probly 1 of his top 5, and autobiographical- and this clip is from Yusuf Islam "Roadsinger" -- while this clip, or another of the new ones is Yusuf. There may be more, because some will go to album pages that I want to expand. I'm pretty much now focusing more on his article, and the ones for Derek Trucks- slight detours, but I told you about when I get bored what I do- photos, and construction. --leahtwosaints (talk) 07:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK - definitely need to add the Cat songs sooner rather than later (Peace Train, original F&S, Oh Very Young) sooner rather than later  - it's getting kind of Yusuf-heavy and that isn't consistent with the relative importance to his career/fame, as laid out in the article.  Can you ask your guy to do those?  Tvoz / talk 01:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Bad tidings
I'm bummed out. Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam/Yusuf and Alun Davies both may need serious review of references. I may be wrong, though I bet not, that Yusuf pulled the Majicat website off the internet, leaving lots of references-- especially for Alun, who has so little information as basically a session musician. Davies' article truly breaks my heart-- I'd have invested a LOT in seeing him get to GA status if the information had been there!

Oh, and think of the album and song pages. SIGH. Just a mess probably. I'm scared to look at them!! Here I've got clips on song pages, and through the article, I want your advice on them, and wish you to check my talk page for a young, really smart editor who is too modest. He has brought Snow Patrol to FA status, along with song pages, sound bites he made for Cat Stevens as a favor- you should get to know him just because he is so diligent he misses nothing, and his work on the album pages for his favorite band make FA articles look shabby! His user name is Suede 67 I think.. just look. I told him about you, that you're the lead editor on Cat Stevens. I just care about it too. I was going to attack the album pages, song pages, multimedia issues, but, now it's really going to be work.

Davies is upsetting. Yusuf, I find photos that are beauties on Flickr, but, they're all from his label or publicist or something. I find lots and lots of new videos from Yusuf showing Davies like never before. I am going to ask about using a video image of him just to have a face for his page. I can't stand having to figure out where to find the justification pages to fill out to do that with copyrighted material-- oh, I meant to thank you for bringing his Daydo album cover photo back within the text. That was very kind.

How do you feel about the placement and length of sound clips in the Stevens/Yusuf article, and on the album and song pages? I would like feedback on my choices. --leahtwosaints (talk) 02:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Replied on your talk. Tvoz / talk 05:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson archiving
Sorry, I didn't know there was a Bot doing the archiving, I was just carrying out the cut and paste procedure. If you want, I can move some of the more recent discussions from the achive to the main discussion page; I know a lot of the stuff is less than 2 days old, but there's obviously much more discussion going on with that article than normal. YeshuaD avid  •  Talk  • 21:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf Suggestions
OK, I added "Father and Son" to the text.

Of the Muslim albums, Talal al-Bedru Aleyna, for example, is a song in both English and in Arabic, and appeared on a children's record he released with children singing with him. Same with "The Wind East and West" referenced in the text near that. Well, that's what I've been thinking about. Cheers! --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) I think more should be said about his final Cat Stevens albums after Catch Bull at Four before he knew he was converting to Islam. There is little about that, and how they charted in comparison, and the same is true about his Muslim records as well. Izitso has synthisizers and a whole new sound ahead of it's time on songs like "Was Dog a Doughnut", with no singing, etc, again, him trying new things as with Foreigner.
 * 1) spiritual quest throughout his life after TB! I'd like to see more of a very obvious (I don't know the word-- timeline?) of discussion both with his own comments, and about the songs he wrote- I have comments from Patti D'Arbanville even (and she mentions a time when the two of them went to the beach in 1974 where he was still looking for The Path-- about his quest to find himself spiritually)! It needs to be more obvious to those who read the article. As now, he is stressing the song "On the Road to Find Out" ("The answer lies within, why don't you take a look now? Kick out the Devil's sin..") "The Hurt" (You say you want to seek the truth, but its hard to find.. etc....You say you want to seek the truth, but you work alone, no one to help you, and nobody to push you on.... you wait for a miracle..."  --and many more, I don't need to tell you! Especially with that block of text where he says he sees the meaning of his songs late, afterward.
 * 2) His move to Rio wasn't only to avoid taxes, but also because his celebrity was giving him no freedom from crowding fans, yet, sending him to lonliness even more so. The song "Sitting", illustrates that, referenced in several of his interviews, from 2006- now!
 * 3) I can't find that email from the publicist or whomever. Which of us should email the information link on the main page of his website and tell them about Magicat affecting both Yusuf and Davies? Also, it might be good to let them know I've striven to have clips of songs that are not haram in Islam, and ditto with photos showing the parts of a man's body that should be covered, etc. out of respect but trying to be NPOV and at the same time, to the artist. At the same time, I was the one who added the most about deportation(S) --not just from the USA, but from Israel too.
 * 4) Do you know someone who is in the album working group? Making pages or updating and improving the albums and song pages we have now? I'd have to learn it to do them justice, and there'll be more singles to add on to the banner now as well as doing song pages and fixing the old ones.


 * Leah - I'll email you off-Wiki with the name and address of the publicist you were communicating with - the private info should not be posted here on Wikipedia. You should write to him because you've already established a connection and also because you are the one who is familiar with the multiple Majicat references that are affected. (This is one reason I have cautioned against using his own websites too much as source - they are too easily changed by the people running the sites, as opposed to third-party magazines and newspapers which once published presumably aren't altered or removed.) Back to why you should be the one writing to the publicist - also, I have no knowledge of Davies details, so am not the best one to speak on behalf of that article.


 * As for your using non-haram material - I can't make editing decisions based on that, and actually wasn't aware that you were. My approach to this article from when I first starting working on it in 2006, was to strive for it to be neutral and comprehensive, and not pushing any agenda (I'm not saying that you are at all), but bearing in mind what I think is objectively true - that his greatest fame and impact came as Cat Stevens and that work and those years are why he is known now.  I think he himself acknowledges that now as he has embraced his old music and puts stickers on album covers referring to him as "formerly known" as Cat Stevens, etc.  That is not to take anything away from his recent work - and I think it needs to be covered to some degree of course - but it speaks to why the Cat Stevens material needs to remain the most prominent in the piece, and why the article name is correctly rendered now.  However, I don't object to adding some material about his current music and activities - I think that enhances the article and our understanding of him - but I don't think we can or should list every concert or appearance he makes or discuss every recording at length.  If they have an impact on the culture as a whole, then yes - so sales/downloads, concert attendance, interviews and articles written about him, etc are factors that help us determine the relative "importance" of the material.


 * Regarding the deportations, Rushdie, other such stuff, I also have worked hard to include those that got attention, and balance the reports with his responses, what other people have said, etc. The Rushdie matter was hard fought on the talk pages, and I think we reached a good compromise, to have the short statement we have in the main article, and the fork article with more detail.  The deportations are also well-handled, I believe, because they are factually presented, but avoid secondary characterizations of groups he is said to have supported which is best handled via wikilinks. It's all in the archives. So I appreciate the work you've done to keep that section balanced.


 * As for your various content suggestions above: I think you should go ahead and add material if you have good sourcing, not just your analysis (however correct it is!) or his own - the best thing is to find third-party sources making the points and the evaluations, and quote them. And then let's see how it looks. (For example, I am not really conversant about Izitso's impact so would like to see some reviewers' or other writers' published evaluations on that one.)


 * Anyway.... hope my thoughts are helpful. I don't know off-hand about who might be working on any of the other pages, but I'll take a look when I have a moment. And I'll email you the publicist info later today. Hope you're feeling better. Tvoz / talk 19:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Certainly, I'd use good references. I'm just saying, the things I did; I could just as easily have portrayed Steven's work by putting a clip of SunC69 singing, "We met behind the stage, she had the best figure by far..she was a junkie then; I was having a good time! Back on the road again!" OR a clip singing "Peace Train". Both from approx. the same era. His people have pulled the first song from YouTube as a video several times, but by now, it's all over the place. I would NEVER lower the quality of a biography by avoiding the truth. It's just that do you want the truth to be ugly and glaring? Or more representative of him, and I think the choices I made were middle of the road, as were yours. NPOV, even though we both like his stuff. I didn't consciously make the choices I made in the song clips actually until I looked back at the clips and saw that perhaps unconsciously they may have had something to do with his new image. Only two photos were offered to me, one too blurry to be sure it was him (or even a human) and the other, looked like it was a photo taken of a newspaper photo. Currently between his two albums, he's been writing a musical called Moonshadow which I think is a mistake. Remember what happened the last time he began a musical! Anyway, I've not been well, was beginning to get better, and did too much too fast, mostly uploading photos. People have to give up their photo copyrights and once you talk a professional photographer into doing that, they want to see it on WP like, NOW! SO, I'm worn out. Gonna need a day to crash after writing the publicist, or whoever.--leahtwosaints (talk) 19:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) I'll email the people, and see what can be done. Since he bought the whole website, I would assume he'd want it saved somewhere even if not online.
 * 2) We both edited the parts about deportations, etc. I never meant to belittle the amount of work you did on that! Except I don't like to argue in the WP, and that anti-Yusuf editor turned me off-- you were doing a good enough job, I didn't want her to feel we were ganging up on her, and have her respond worse, so I left that alone.
 * 3) I feel I kept my edits NPOV or someone would have done something if it was a problem. But no, the song choices were because of their popularity, etc. Once the album and song pages are expanded, we can add the drop in his popularity as he moved away from the singer-songwriter genre with Samwell-Smith and Davies, to explore other areas. That part is easy enough, just a couple references and looking up the RIAA album ranking, and the critics' responses.


 * If I wasn't clear, let me say I think you've done a great job on the article, and yes, NPOV and responsible all around.  Did not intend to suggest anything else.  I'm laughing at your "SunC69" comment - no idea who or what that is, but I think it's beyond absurd to consider not picking Peace Train over any other song for inclusion in a bio as The Song that is most identified with him!   Tvoz / talk 00:27, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Cat Stevens
In Template talk:Cat Stevens, you said that "the template which appears only on his music sub pages". Do you regard Cat Stevens as a sub page? Andjam (talk) 02:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously not. I see that I misspoke, but that's certainly not what I meant to say. Cat Stevens is the main biography, and of course it should include the template that lists  his recordings. That's why I reinstated the template on the bio page when you removed it.   What I was saying on the template talk page is that the purpose of the template is to list his recordings: the  singles and albums he recorded as Cat Stevens and then as Yusuf.  What I said is inappropriate is to include on that template a link to the subpage that details the Salman Rushdie matter, which is handled by the wikilink on the main page to the subpage.  The template is about his music only, and of course it belongs on his bio as well as on his music pages. Tvoz / talk 03:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Malia Obama
Where exactly was this consensus made? I had made sure to look for any discussions involving the page, but I was unable to find anything in regards to keeping the article as a redirect to the Obama family article. Thanks. Gage (talk) 06:41, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Speedy deletion discussion here. My reply on User talk: GageSkidmore. Tvoz / talk 06:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Paul McCartney GAR notification
Paul McCartney has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:00, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi! Message about Leah.
Hello Tvoz, I have a message for you from Leah. She said that she's having problems with he computer for the past few days, and that's why she's not coming on Wiki as often. She had written to Yusuf about the problems with the Magicat website, which (I think) has been taken down. He are her exact words: "I wrote Yusuf's info address, about the problems with Magicat's website being gone for Cat Stevens and Alun Davies before I began having these computer problems, so that's why nobody has heard from me or seen me working/ I was able to do just a few lines." Suede67 (talk) 07:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. Nice to meet you. Tvoz / talk 23:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem! Suede67 (talk) 09:21, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Contact from Yusuf
Hey, I got an email response from Umair (that's the same guy who always wrote me before) Spoke about the Magicat site, etc. He first said, the site crashed which was a problem for them, as well, since they refer to it frequently too! (Surprise, surprise!). About the photos, he attached two in the email. Like,gave me via my Yahoo email two photos, one face shot of Cat Stevens and one of Yusuf, recently, with guitar. I need to check with the Commons Nazis (or at least a knowledgeable person about how to upload them without issues. Regarding my request for some good websites with information and photos of Alun Davies, he sent me the URL to.. the page we began, his page in the Wikipedia! Couldn't believe it! I wrote back, telling him all the obvious things that I doubt I need mention here!--leahtwosaints (talk) 16:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha, about Davies article - love those self-referents! Glad you made contact with him - good luck with the photo stuff. As you know, the photo regulations are distinctly  not my thing, but I would love to see a clear pic of him as Cat up there.   As for Magicat, I hope they'll try to get it back up - it did have a wealth of information. Be well Tvoz / talk 22:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Got to plan
Tvoz-- I don't even recall how to get to the Wikipedia email on the settings area. I've never had photos mailed before. I have a good photo of young Cat Stevens, and was told what the caption should read. It IS a face shot of him - caption: "Cat Stevens photographed in 1974". The second, of him with his guitar, caption: ""Yusuf performing at the Hal Ashby Tribute, held at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences in Los Angeles, June 2009. Photo courtesy of AMPAS". I did tell Umair that I'd be sharing this email with several Wikipedian editors, (and confidentiality would be absurd since he's giving the photos under what amounts to a BY-SA 2.0 Creative Commons license. Here's the thing: I need to find someone who will allow me to email the two photos to, who has a way to enter them into Commons. Do you know anyone who could figure out the logistics of this, and get the photos uploaded? I can ask SpinningSpark but I feel I've really been leaning on him too much lately, since the Wikimedia Commons server has been utterly sluggish. Any ideas of someone else? I don't want to piss off somebody new like I did with your buddy before I knew how to upload from Flickr.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Getting to email? If an editor has it enabled, you click on "E-mail this user" in the left column  on their User page or user talk page, under Toolbox. Otherwise, I don't know what you mean.  Pictures sound good, if they are actually being given over to the public domain  and they understand what that means.   But I don't know who can help on this - have you asked on the various workshop pages? As I keep telling you - there are lots of people here who concentrate on images, but I am distinctly not one of them, and only understand this in a general sense.  Can't you just upload them directly to Commons? You also could ask for help at the Village Pump. Tvoz / talk 07:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Group or band – which one?
We are holding a straw poll (in a very friendly way, of course) to decide if The Beatles should be called a group, or a band. You can add your user signature to one or the other by clicking this link, Group or band – which one?. Thanks.--andreasegde (talk) 23:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wowser - love those straw polls! Tvoz / talk 07:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

the Influences and the influenced
I suggest that you take this up on the template talk page rather than blanking the templates' contents in articles. &mdash; goethean &#2384; 02:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Information being incomplete is not a valid argument for removing the extant information, in my opinion. &mdash; goethean &#2384; 15:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Question about the Obama daughters
Do you think that there is enough information to create an article like Obama daughters or Malia and Sasha Obama? I'm thinking that might be a violation of WP:NOTINHERITED, but I was just curious as to your thoughts on the matter. Unit Anode  20:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think a separate article about the daughters is needed, as they are well-covered in the article Family of Barack Obama, and they do not have independent notability. When separate articles have been tried for Malia, they were merely repetitions of what we have in the Family article, so the redirect seems to accomplish what we want. If someone comes here to read about the daughters, they are redirected to the article that talks about them, and other family members who similarly don't have independent notability. This is being discussed at Family of Barack Obama.  Tvoz / talk 21:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Pete Seeger
Hi Tvoz: I think the problem is that "my computer ate my homework." I looked over my contributions and your talk page was not on it. (There was an electrical torn that night). But I still think that the current lead on Pete Seeger are biased in favor of the subject. As I've said, "tireless" is a bit too much like tireless promotion :P V. Joe (talk) 19:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've lost things that I was sure I posted too, so I understand that. As for Pete Seeger - obviously I disagree with you. If you think describing a man of age 90 who  has spent a lifetime and is still out there on the frontlines actively working for environmental and other causes as "tireless" is biased, all I can say is I wish you the same strength in your own old age (and me too).   As you may see, the word is out of the intro at the moment, but I really do think when objections were raised to your edit - which after all reflects your own biases, right? - it would have been a better approach to talk about the edit rather than just reinstating it.  By the way - as I asked on the talk page, would you be more comfortable with the word "tireless" if I added citations for it?  I think it would be easy to find reliable, neutral sources who would characterize Pete as tireless. Cheers. Tvoz / talk 04:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Would a word like "relentless" or "consistent" be better? (I'll check on Seeger's talk too) Luminifer (talk) 05:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Talk:Ann Dunham/GA1
Since you are the primary contributor to Ann Dunham, I'm hoping that you have time to help fix and address the concerns raised by the reviewer. I would be happy to help out as well, even though I am only the nominator. Viriditas (talk) 03:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'll take a look at it in the next few days - I was not aware of the nomination until I saw it just now (aren't there usually notifications?). I've been unhappy with the insistence of a couple of editors on including much too much minute and sometimes contradictory anecdotal detail in the notes about the first year or two of Barack's life - perhaps following some ulterior motive or  agenda - so I hope this review doesn't lead to any difficulty. Tvoz / talk 04:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only notifications that I'm aware of are WP:GAN, where the nomination is listed on the main page, and the top of the article talk page itself, where the nominator adds the GAN banner. So, if you aren't watching GAN or you don't have Talk:Ann Dunham watchlisted, you wouldn't see it;  The review also takes place on a subpage.  In any case, it's good to know that you will be active.  Like I said, I'm going to try and help out, but I won't feel the least bit discouraged or put off if you find fault with my edits; I'm much more concerned with meeting the requirements of the review and seeing the article pass. Viriditas (talk) 05:09, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I of course have the article/talk page watchlisted, but unfortunately it's one of 3000+, so I missed it. I thought lead editors were given a heads-up on their talk when these kinds of actions are initiated, but maybe I'm thinking of Afds and FA actions. In any case, now I'm notified! Tvoz / talk 05:18, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks like some editors add a notice to the WikiProject as well. I will try to get in the habit of doing that. Viriditas (talk) 04:07, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The cavalry has arrived! :) Viriditas (talk) 08:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Bumped into.. this!
Tvoz, what the hell is this?!  I feel offended, and still don't know what the hell it is!--Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:48, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no idea. Tvoz / talk 23:15, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Maintained
Hi. Just a note to tell you that since you are a primary contributor, I've added your name as a contact to a maintained template on Talk:Ann Dunham. Please feel free to remove it if you so desire. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 10:45, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks but actually I'm not a big fan of that template - anyone with any questions should post on Talk where numerous editors involved can answer questions. Especially on this article where I'm not completely on board with some of the references. Your intentions were good, I know, but let's leave it off. Tvoz / talk 17:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I used to feel the same way until I put myself in the shoes of a new contributor, who may feel more comfortable seeing a contact person in the header, allowing them to address any questions to one editor. You see, sometimes, articles may not always be watched for questions and comments, and the template provides an alternate way to get the attention of an involved editor.  In any case, could you bring the reference problem to the talk page, so we can solve it once and for all? Viriditas (talk) 21:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for copyedits
Thanks for the copyedits on George W. Romney. Another one of those articles where by the time I had gotten in all that I wanted to, I was too tired of it to look at it any more ...

And if it's really true that only 13% of editors are female, that's really depressing. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:38, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know how that feels.... I'm looking George over slowly. Tvoz / talk 02:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the "Family background" section in that article, I inherited it and have never been sure what to do with it. It certainly goes into more detail than is really necessary to understand George's background and why he was born in Mexico. I'm tempted to merge it into the Pratt–Romney family article in some way. I'm not sure if this material got in the George Romney article as a fallout from the Mitt and Mormon history disputes of a couple of years ago, or if it's just from geneaological enthusiasm on the part of some editor. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah - I knew you didn't write that! I cut it down and reorganized it some, because I found it impossible to follow - but I think it's still too much detail. Merging to Pratt-ROmney is a good idea - I did a similar cut and move to Ann Dunham over the weekend - haven't looked yet to see if it survived.  Genealogy is all well and good, but where someone's grandfather is buried is just too much for me.  I'd cut down George more.  I think you're right, by the  way, about the probable source of this being the stuff about the legitimacy of citizenship - same thing goes for the deep interest in Dunham's ancestry.  Needless to say, if I mess up some facts in my zeal for streamlining George, of course correct me!  Tvoz / talk 21:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I've now merged the original material of the "Family background" section into the Pratt–Romney family article, keeping all that where-they-are-buried detail since it seems appropriate for an article like that (but if anyone wants to further work on it there, they can). I've eliminated the section from the Romney article, and just kept the most important background (a fraction of the original text) for the "Early life" section.  I think I need to improve the citing on this material, though. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Magicat is up
In case you didn't know, Magicat.com is up AND there's a bunch of new stuff- discussion of good old Uncle Hugo, his influence on Steve, examples of his art (really good, too..) and more. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh that's great - I'll have to take a look when I have a chance. We should not lean too heavily on it, though - same issue of too much from one source and questions of reliability.  But it'll be fun to read! Tvoz / talk 20:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Tiny new computer
I saw you just got one? Which one pls, and how happy are you with it, and advice? I am thinking of getting a netbook type device myself, so any feedback/warnings/help you can give would be most appreciated!!! thanks in advance - KillerChihuahua ?!?Advice 20:13, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Pup! I just got my new little baby up and running and I love it! I did a fair amount of comparison shopping and online reading and in the end I got the Toshiba Mini 10, mostly because for me the keyboard was the most comfortable (and it's adorable). Some of them (like the Aeee cheapie at Staples) felt rinky-dink, and kind of crabby - tiny keys and a cheap feel. The Dell keyboard is good but I liked the Toshiba best because the keys are separated and easier for me to type discrete keys. There are really big differences in models, even within a company, so you should try them out in stores first even if you decide to buy online.  The HP model had a weird touchpad/mouse arrangement that I didn't like (left & right click buttons are on the sides of the touchpad instead of below it - I'm too old to re-learn mouse skills!); one of the Acers that I liked, because it has a slightly bigger screen, I nixed because it has Windows Vista - most of the others use XP; another Aeee model had a better keyboard but the screen sucked.... etc. So it came down to Toshiba vs Dell.   Other things I preferred in the Toshiba are the larger 6-cell battery (supposedly 9 hours!) and the fact that the RAM (now 1GB) can be upgraded to 2GB down the road. Cost for the Dell and Toshiba was equivalent, so the Toshiba made more sense to me.  Weight is under 3 pounds and it is unbelievably fast- downloaded and installed Firefox in seconds.  One warning - for all of the netbooks - there is no CD drive. You have 3 USB ports, though, so can get an external CD drive which I probably will.  The hard disk on most of them is 160 GB which is not bad, and you also could get an external hard drive.  They all have built-in webcam and mic, so it's perfect for video chatting/Skype (daughter is on her way to Brazil for a few months, which is why I got this now). I didn't get the card for wifi anywhere, because I don't really have that need right now and don't want the monthly charge - but I'm looking into whether there are pay-as-you-go cards that would only charge for real usage or something like that.   But it worked right out of the box with the wifi in my house - just had to figure out how to turn wifi on since it's not an on-off button but instead a function key. Of course the screen is small, so you have to get used to that - but the speed is so good, that I don't mind. And the clarity of the screen is impressive`-`when you're on ac power it is very bright and very readable - on battery it is slightly dimmer, but still very clear. This is the ultimate web-surfing email computer!  Hope this helps!  I'm not usually that into the nerdy details, but here it was pretty easy to compare and learn quickly - feel free to ask any questions you have (here or on email) - I haven't loved a computer this much since our 1985 Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 "portable" computer with its 8K RAM (yes, K) and 8 line screen. What a sweetie that was! But this Toshiba is a lot sweeter!   Good to see ya!  Tvoz / talk 06:00, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You are wonderful, thank you so much for taking the time to type all this! My current front-runners are an Acer (10.? screen, XP, not the 11", Vista - they're cheap, you know?) and the HP - I think I'd adapt to the mouse config - but I have not seen a Toshiba to test drive so I'll have to go check that out. I know about the CD drive, I almost decided to wait until someone came out with a tiny laptop which supported DVDs, but my spousal unit already convinced me external would be workable for me. Was the mousepad the only thing which ruled out the HP for you? And wow, Trash80 - your geek creds are impressive. I skipped the Trash80 and was never a VICtim, but I did have a C64. My spousal unit had a Trash80 though. :-) Thank you again - there is nothing like getting details from someone who has one, its different from looking online and in the store! KillerChihuahua ?!?Advice 12:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * reviews complain about the Tohsiba sound, its mono and the speaker is on the bottom?
 * I'm getting tempted by the Asus Eee PC 1008HA again now... dangit. KillerChihuahua ?!?Advice 16:46, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The sound isn't fantastic, but with earphones it's fine - i am not sure where the speaker is actually. But it's not stereo.  As for the Asus eee - I don't know if I handled the 1008 model - the one I was looking at was $299 and compact, but I hated the keyboard so I suggest you handle it in a store if you can.  By the way - this  whole thing drove me totally crazy over the last weekend - no one machine had everything I wanted, and they're all close - but I am happy with this one.  The model 100 was unbelievable - a laptop before they even had the word "laptop"! I had it in the hospital when my daughter was born in 1986 (same daughter!)  with its 300 baud modem - and I was able to dial into our online  campus from there to tell everyone about the baby - this before the web of course. But back to the point:  I actually liked the HP a lot except for the mouse - i don't remember now if there were any other problems but I think it was the shorter life battery and the ram may not have been upgradable.  I got my toshiba at Office Depot by the way.  Anyway - good luck - let me know if you have other questions!  Cheers Tvoz / talk 18:51, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, thank you for the quick response on the sound question. What i really want is the ASUS U20A A1, but there is no way I have that many pennies in my piggybank. *sigh* I'm with you - no one model has everything I want. KillerChihuahua ?!?Advice 19:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis page
Hi - I don't know what kind of knowledge you have of Onassis or how much interest you have, but I see that you've been fairly active on the talk page within the last year, and you seem to have an interest in maintaining its neutrality. I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at the comment I just posted to the Talk section, under "Problems with this article," to see if you can give any advice as to how to go about improving the article. As things currently stand, it is a biased mess, and someone of Onassis' historical significance deserves better than that! :) Abootface (talk) 15:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up -- I'll take a look.  Tvoz / talk 16:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikis Take Manhattan
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Admin That Cares
Hi Tvoz. I've read a lot of your stuff, which is why I'm approaching you. I think there's a huge BLP bias/vandalism/POV issue going on in Daniel Goldhagen article on Daniel Goldhagen. It's so extreme that a vandal type of person even deleted the name of Goldhagen's spouse, mention of his new book, link to a video of Goldhagen speaking. There's definitely an attempt on that page to skew the article to be anti-Goldhagen. And if you look at the history and the talk archive, it's been going on for years. I'm hoping a couple of admins with no particular axe to grind can take a look, and take action. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crm411 (talk • contribs)
 * Well, I am not an administrator, but I'll take a look - I don't have much knowledge of Goldhagen, but I'll see how it looks to me. Tvoz / talk 17:39, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi
and thanks. I'm glad you like the pelican. I decided to make some user pages during a general disenchantment with other aspects of Wikipedia. I've commented at Debra Winger, and I think this is an example of ongoing work and activism and is more relevant than a one-off comment about Polanski. I think it fits well where it is, but could equally sit under the "Personal Life" section as it is non-actor related. Either way is fine with me. Cheers Rossrs (talk) 06:50, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Highly reliable sources
Without realizing it at first, used this source here. How about that! Wasted Time R (talk) 04:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Aha - he'll be pleased! He made it to three shows (including the last) in this latest leg - heard all 3 albums and loved them all!   Tvoz / talk 21:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I liked the Born in the USA show that I went to, doing the albums in sequence definitely adds something. Saw three shows overall on the tour but didn't like it too much overall, for reasons hinted at in the WP article.  Pictures I took during all three shows (and during previous tours) are up on WP in the tour articles and various song articles.  All taken from the viewpoint of the common person! (i.e. not close to the stage :-)   Wasted Time R (talk) 01:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the link about creating pages.

I have moved the Obama family draft to your page because I don't want to use too much bandwidth under my name. Frankly, having an XXXXX in the name looks silly. Thank you. PresChicago (talk) 03:13, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

You are following me so you should stay away from me! You followed me to Derek Jeter. You contacted me on my user page first. So if anyone is bothering anyone, it is you. If you don't like that page, go ahead and delete it. It was created as an illustration of a proposal that I do not support. If you are accusing me of being your ex-wife, I am not. PresChicago (talk) 03:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello,. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 10:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This (Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents) gets you there drekkly. LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And the non-issue is resolved. Toddst1 (talk) 16:45, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

← Wow. I'm going to forgo comment right now. Thanks fellas. Tvoz / talk 19:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Hm. Am I imagining things, or does User:PresChicago seem familiar? --Akhilleus (talk) 02:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * More and more with every edit. Thank you - I was hoping someone else would notice. Thought we had moved on from the good old days, but I should have known better.  Next step?  Tvoz / talk 03:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * SPI please? Toddst1 (talk) 04:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Healthcare
Hi, I answered on my page. Not sure you whether you've seen it.  Sean.hoyland  - talk 07:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

You're invited!
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Featured Photo?
Tvoz, the Cat Stevens photo, the black and white one up top of the article has been a Featured Photograph in Turkey, and I think someone nominated it in the Wikimedia Commons, so, I think the photographer should get some pleasure from basically signing away his photo to us-- please vote for the photo if it's possible. Here: I just want to see a lot of generous people who continue to give to us be rewarded, even if just knowing something like this.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see that it's been nominated, Leah. Tvoz / talk 08:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is this legal or libel or something?
After leaving you the last note, I noticed a page was showing this photo, and it's here: I'm really disturbed by this! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see any libel, but I don't know if there are any restrictions on the use of the picture. User pages aren't really supposed to mimic articles, so it probably should at least have the  tag on it, but the picture is identified correctly as Cat Stevens, so if it's on Commons, it may be that anyone can use it.  Lots of user pages have Obama's picture, for example, and I think it's considered ok.  Best bet is for you to ask an admin or post a question on one of the admin noticeboards or Village Pump, as I don't know the answer.  Tvoz / talk 08:11, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf Islam
Dear Tvoz,

I am glad that I am getting in contact with somebody with a sense of fun and is an inclusionist. You might go on the news section of www.google.ie and type in Yusuf's name and see the very large amount of coverage that his recent concert in Dublin generated not just in Ireland but elsewhere in Europe. Given his comparatively large entry (and excellent) on Wikipedia one or two lines would I think be appropriate. Let me what you think and then tell me what you think, good jokes also welcome!We might then decide to reinstate the entry that I made a few days ago. I am very impressed with your barnstars!

Skreen (talk) 18:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry - somehow I missed this comment. I'll take another look at this - I don't have a major problem with including the reaction of an audience to a concert if it had some kind of impact beyond that one night.  But we have to keep in mind that this is a bio of his life, not a blog that catalogs events as they happen - if this particular reaction has had a lasting effect I would include it. If there was a lot of coverage, if it was something that was repeated at other concerts, if it is indicative of a more widespread response to him, then yes I'd agree with you that a mention would be appropriate. It seemed on first look to be an example of "recentism"  and something that seemed important the day it happened might not be all that important in the longer run.  But I'll take another look - I also may have been in a crabby mood that day... Thanks for the followup and sorry for taking so long to see it - and I do try to have fun here whenever possible!  Tvoz / talk 18:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey Tvoz-
Gotta question. Would you glance at Rory Gallagher's article? Do you know of an editor here who can insert the proper grammar in the pronounciation of Gallagher's name? See how someone sounded it out on the first line of his biography? I think it needs someone's professional touch, and if I ever learned that stuff I forgot it decades ago! What do you think? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeesh - I looked at it - that's not the way they do it! Unfortunately I don't speak IPA and haven't ever looked  at how to do that.  Another one of those things I enjoy leaving to others.  I can't think offhand of who knows how to do it, but maybe someone reading here will step up.  And I'll look around. Tvoz / talk 18:58, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And I put a note into Wikipedia talk:IPA for English with this result.  See what happens.  Tvoz / talk 20:11, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Sis. Looks MUCH better. I don't even read IPA much less speak it. I come across some mighty strange attempts at all kinds of things in articles, since I'm more a Wikignome 60% of the time, and cut deals for photos and edit the other 40%. That IPA issue only ranks a "4" on my weirdness scale, so thanks. Somebody must have paid attention during English grammar class! And, too, Rory Gallagher is Irish, so I'm not even sure if I've been pronouncing his name right. His article, and Jaco Pastorious are good examples of articles I feel should get real attention, because though they have died, I feel the contributions toward their genres of music have been remarkable. Just thought I'd mention what I'm doing. I haven't abandoned Yusuf, if needed for... whatever, I can't imagine, actually, just ask!--Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:36, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Paul Simon
Thanks for reinforcing my points about the Paul Simon article. Yes, it's an embarassment, but I aimed for diplomacy to appeal to like-minded editors without inciting the kind of exchange that flared up between Dcrasno and Baseball Bugs. Anyway, I'd be happy to join in the cleanup. To engage others, perhaps you might find some recruits by checking out the article's history for editors who have made positive contributions over time, then requesting their help as you did mine. One of the challenges is finding sources for more difficult fixes (worthwhile material that can't be re-worded without more background). Over the weekend, I'll see what I can dig up on the web, then I'll post the sources on the Paul Simon talk page. Allreet (talk) 22:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See the References topic I added to Talk:Paul Simon. I'm currently editing a paper version of the Simon article to clean up minor issues and will insert these changes over the course of the coming week. Sometimes even a seemingly simple rewrite can be a bear if the sources aren't available, so the references I found should prove helpful, though more are needed for the long haul. Allreet (talk) 22:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I did a thorough review of everything up through 1976 and found very few items, mostly small, that needed correction. Clearly, you did a masterful job of editing out the extraneous and reworking the language. That's not empty praise. I usually don't have the heart for slash and burn and get bogged down in trying to salvage most of what's said. It takes forever to do that, and what you've done demonstrates it's not worth it. The rest of the article remains a mess. I'll make what few edits I have in the front, then attack the back sections. If I notice you're already working on a section, I'll just hop on the next one. At some point, a couple substantive issues need to be addressed, for example, the aparthied issue and one that was only touched on, his leaving Columbia for Warner Bros., but those can wait until later. The big issue is cites, and I'll start adding those for the sections you cleaned up. Allreet (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Phil Ochs
Nice work on Och's page. I thought you may like to take a look at the Phil Ochs "article" on Uncyclopedia (typing uncy in Google is enough to get one to the site), the comedy wiki. You may get a kick out of it. A side note, I once talked to Michael Ochs about the movie, and long ago they thought of asking k.d. lang to play the title role (this was year's before the recent multi-actor film on Dylan). Enjoy, Randy Kryn (talk) 11:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, good to meet you. I've answered on my page. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:11, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

GAR notification
Letting you know as a major contributor to the article in question that I have opened a good article reassessment for the Cat Stevens article. You can read my comments at Talk:Cat Stevens/GA1. Cheers, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 19:05, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I dreaded this day
Got ideas for the Cat Stevens review? Ones you think I should try to tackle? I've been currently trying to improve the Rory Gallagher article, which has been neglected from major edits since 2005 or so..?!! Lemme know. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 20:22, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Adminship
I've seen your good work around the project many many times, and I have always wondered why you weren't an administrator. Would you be willing to accept a nomination to become one? NW ( Talk ) 21:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I have to pass - replied on your talk. Tvoz / talk 07:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)