User talk:TwinsMetsFan/Archive 05

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Virtual classroom
I've set up the Virtual classroom (VC), which is a forum for the discussion of advanced Wikipedia skills. It differs from the help forums on Wikipedia in that major topics of discussion are scheduled and once started remain continuous.

The reason I'm contacting you is because one of the class assignments is a comparison of our user interfaces. A lot can be learned from individual users, who usually have developed their own ways of doing things. I noticed you are an expert programmer, so you no doubt have some tricks up your sleeve. I'm hoping that you will stop by and share and compare the interfaces you use when browsing and working on Wikipedia. I've also constructed a tools page which presents everything learned from these discussions, and it is growing -- there are some pretty powerful techniques on there now. Even Interiot, Rich Farmbrough, and CBDunkerson have stopped by the VC to show off their tools and methods. It's been a lot of fun, and you are invited. The interface topics are called:


 * External interfaces - let's compare

and


 * Internal interfaces - what do you use?.

I look forward to seeing you there and to learning your wikiways. Sincerely,  Th e Tr ans hu man ist   23:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

NY 19A
There needs to be a citation there. Facts should be cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArmAndLeg (talk • contribs) 18:56, November 23, 2006 (EST)
 * See Talk:New York State Route 19A. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 01:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

NYSR 5
I still don't understand how NY 5 can end "at PA 5 in Ripley, NY". PA 5 doesn't go through Ripley. Powers T 00:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Valid point. But conversely, NY 5 never enters North East, Pennsylvania so it wouldn't make sense to mention this town either. I think the best way to describe this is that NY 5 ends in Ripley, and continues as PA 5. Since the terminus is at a state line, there's no easy way to represent this. Also, this is the current method of representing termini at state lines adopted by many projects, as shown by WP:NJSCR on New Jersey Route 440 and explained on Talk:New Jersey Route 440 and by our project on a number of articles. Not that precedent means anything, but if we do decide to represent "state-line" termini in a different way, this would have to be a project-wide discussion, not just a route-wide one (as there are at least 10 articles about routes that end at state lines). -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 01:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

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NY route PNG signs
Now that you've updated all the NYSR articles to project standards, all of them have SVG signs and thus there is no longer any need for the many PNG versions I created and uploaded last spring (sigh ... all that work, ultimately for nought). Do you want to round them all up and list them for deletion, or should I? Daniel Case 18:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you could round them up and send them to IfD for me, that'd be great. I've been a bit pressed for time lately and any assistance is welcome. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 23:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I will (eventually). Daniel Case 04:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

NY 55
Thanks for picking this one, too (I'm not surprised). I suppose, barring any other noms, NY 52 will have to be the next one. I'll have to see what other articles I can give my unique touch to (or else we'll run out of candidates :-)). Daniel Case 04:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Montgomery County Routes
Thank you for putting up the Montgomery County CR 57 reference marker on NY 331; it looks good. Yes, that's how 99% of Montgomery County routes are signed. Unlike NYSDOT, they're usually all on the same side of the route. There are, two exceptions: I think they're CR 3 and CR 38 (will have to check and get back to you) and they're signed as they end at the same intersection with a rebuilt section NY 67 using the standard pentagon. If you were to create those two signs (the blue pentagons), I will get the mileage for that intersection and add them to NY 67. It's less than a mile west of the Fort Johnson village line. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fwgoebel (talk • contribs).
 * OK, I'll put making those two signs on my (lengthy) to-do list. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 17:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

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Your browse subpage
Do you mind if I edit it to keep track of the systems? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 23:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do - that way, we'll both be able to monitor our collective progress. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 23:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think I might have messed up AL... could you take a look? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 03:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me; I had to fix the "AL AL" shield size and coding, but other than that, it looks fine. Also, I tried moving Template:Infobox road/AL name to Template:Infobox road/AL AL name (to match the shield location at Template:Infobox road/AL AL shield) but apparently AL AL name has a non-empty edit history. Could you delete AL AL name then move AL name to AL AL for me? -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 05:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done... sorry about that. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 04:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Editing, creating, uploading
I've gotten to where I'm going to run out of "new" NYS highways to do (out of distance: I like to drive a route before doing an article). So I may then go into doing Reference Routes near me, and maybe put together that Reference Marker article I've been wanting to do.

So as to not burden you with many todos, I want to be able to create my own markers. I did e-mail you that one .png I created of the old format, which I would use on the Marker article as an illustration. I know the color doesn't match the reference markers you've done, so for any "new format" ones, I'd prefer to edit what you have. I do have the Roadgeek fonts, but I don't have an .svg editor (yet). I'm downloading Inkscape now. As such, I do want to work directly off what you have, so as to match color and spacing to ensure consistency in articles.

On top of that, I would naturally have to do my own uploading and licensing and all that, and with that I'd like to hear whatever reminders or suggestions, hints, etc. you can pass on. That included file naming protocols and the like.

If you wish, feel free to move this discussion to my talkpage, so your automatic archiving doesn't hide this before I'm done with the tutorial. You're the main person I'm turning to here (at least for now) and I do look at histories of articles to see what I can improve on when I first create something. Fwgoebel 06:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

NY 52 GA nom
I'm flattered that you did it, and I certainly hope it passes, but I would not be surprised if it didn't due to a lack of inline references.

Or maybe not. I'll see what I can do. Daniel Case 22:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It failed, largely for the reasons I thought it would.


 * We'll improve it and try again later. Daniel Case 03:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not always easy to have inline references in route articles unless there's other online information out there on a route, as much of what we do is based on our first-hand experiences on a route (or word-of-mouth history), at least in my experience. They also mentioned bulleted listings, that part I didn't fully understand (I'll let that one get explained on the article's talk page). But it was great to see an article from this project nominated like that just the same. Fwgoebel 04:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It was worth a shot, considering an article that I personally feel is of inferior quality to NY 52 (County Route 676 (Middlesex County, New Jersey)) was made a GA a few days ago. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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Bald Hill Ski Bowl future link?
Are you planning page on the former Bald Hill Ski Bowl? When I went to look at the newer version of the Suffolk County Road 83 page, I found a future link to it. If you or anybody else is planning one, I'll gladly contribute whaterer info I can to it if the creator exposes himself or herself. DanTD 04:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

New infobox w/PA State Routes link (I-476)
Look on WT:USRD and Interstate 476 for details. Pass this on to NORTH (if you can). V60 22:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

NYSR-NYCR Newsletter - Issue 1

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.  T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 06:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Infoboxes
Thanks for handling it. I'm on break from university for the next few weeks, so I won't be able to come online as often. Good to know things are in good hands in the meantime. -- NORTH talk 03:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:NJSCR Newsletter #1
The very first newsletter-I hope you like it. Message me if you dont want it.Mitchazenia (8300+edits) 17:16, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

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Schenectady and Warren County Route signs
Schenectady County uses a green "street sign" (I guess it's name is a 'blade') designation for signs, there are no route shields used that I know of. The road's colloquial name is large, in Helvetica Bold, on the first line. The second line reads "Schenectady County # 158" (the # appears, followed by the route number). If necessary, an arrow is inserted on the second line and "Sch,dy" (comma, no apostrophe) is substituted. The type can be stretched or extended to fill the sign, there is otherwise no consistency that I've noticed. I tried to create a "Rosendale Road" (158) sign and I can't get InkScape to render the Helvetica as a bold (which it is). I can send you a file that has it un-bolded and let you see if you can get it to to work.

Warren County: All of them are small blue signs with just a number, just slightly less wide than the flanged post, and a two-digit number is "stacked" (12 reads 1 and 2 on separate lines, for example). Looks like Roadgeek C, maybe D. Fwgoebel 04:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for that information; I'll use this to make some more shields. As for the Schenectady County blade sign, I can take a look at the file, see if I can figure out what's wrong. Also, you might be interested in this page, the result of my efforts to discover how county routes are signed across NYS. Feel free to make any corrections. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 04:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Update: Schenectady County does occasionally use county route pentagon shields, but I don't see many of them, either. Like Montgomery, I suppose. Fwgoebel 18:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The Template:Infobox road revert war
Thanks for the heads-up - I visited his user page - and he's an admin :-Z. I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy the show. --•  master_son  Lets talk  18:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Same here. I have better ways to spend my Christmas Eve than to revert war over a template. =) -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 18:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Did you mean to reply to ed g2s instead of me? •  master_son  Lets talk  21:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ed g2s. Sorry for the confusion. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 21:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Categorisation issues (contd.)
This one is unrelated to WP:USRD so I'm discussing this here. May be the whole topic belongs elsewhere instead of WT:USRD as I thought earlier.

It looks like an "ideal" category hierarchy is not that easy. I'm stumped at the question of whether to have Category:Planned cities, Category:University towns in the United States, etc. at Category:Raleigh, North Carolina or Raleigh, North Carolina. By my logic at WT:USRD it should be at the latter since stuff like North Hills Mall aren't "planned cities".

But if we stick to that logic, Category:Raleigh, North Carolina itself shouldn't be in the hierarchy under any of Category:North Carolina counties, Category:Metropolitan areas of North Carolina and most ancestors of the latter. This makes the logic look silly.

Instead if we say North Hills Mall does belong to Category:Geography of North Carolina, since it is in that part of the world, to Category:Planned cities, since the city it is in is a planned one, etc. then how about the argument that the Turner Turnpike relates to Category:Interstate Highways in Missouri since the turnpike belongs to an interstate that runs through Missouri?

May be we should use both the viewpoints presented above, case-by-case. Then, how to draw the line between where to use which POV? -- Paddu 21:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

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Image:US 66 (AZ Old).svg
You could have uploaded the file as a new version of Image:Arizona us 66.svg instead of uploading under a new name, in which case links to the image need not be updated. -- Paddu 20:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I uploaded my version of the shield with a new file name intentionally to match the naming convention already in place for US shields. In any event, I took care of all of the links to the image, so no harm, no foul. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:22, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Two shields for completion
Hey there. I have a favour to ask. I've been working on a New Jersey Turnpike SVG image and a Capital Beltway SVG image. I finished the NJTP image, it just needs to be uploaded, and I started on the Beltway image, that will take me a while. I just traced the current images I had on file. I was hoping you could upload them as SVG images if you have a chance; I have a hard time with that: it never works. The large P needs some rounding off at the top I think... If you have some time and want to work some magic with the Capital Beltway image, knock yourself out. The file can be found here (download).

On another matter, I also had a brief conversation with User:Cfred about shields like this and their copyright status. For example, we have the Ohio Turnpike shield listed under PD, while the Pennsylvania Turnpike shield is under C, and both were created by users. That is causing a few problems that I've seen. Also, in that edit, a PD image was removed citing "fair use abuse", looking down over his contribs, I see you're aware of some of that. But anywho, I'd list both the NJTP and the Beltway images under PD-self, by the way. Anyway, thanks and have a good weekend. -- M PD (T / C) 03:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We had some similar issues here with that of the Palisades Interstate Parkway for one, and potentially also the New York State Thruway. TMF know that full well, this is mentioned as courtesy to MPD. Fwgoebel 05:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do with the shields. I'll have some free time later this week, so I should have them ready by Saturday at the latest.
 * The whole fair use thing is a ridiculous argument IMHO. My view: if the toll roads really viewed the shields as logos, would they allow the shields to be placed on every sign assembly within 20 miles of the road? -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 03:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

When you get a chance
This is no deadline thing, just a special request when you have a little time. I've started a sandbox project (very easy to find from my user page). I want to create a NY page for US 4, and it looks like US 4 itself is far from standard. So, I want to take care of that first. The start of that "project" is in that sandbox, so if you have an opportunity, give it a look. TIA. Fwgoebel 05:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Interstate and shields
Just to let you know, your suggestion that you posted on WT:USRD/S for the new Interstate shield naming proposal has been processed for all CA Interstates. Right now, I am just editing all of those Interstate articles that still use the "outdated" naming convention. After that, I will tag the old CA Interstate shields with Interstate x (California).svg, just like I did with. Also, after the CA articles are refurbished, there will be a similar change with the NY ones and such.

Infobox
The "shield_ext" parameter for Infobox Interstate is now broken because we are migrating to the new shields naming convention. I have edited articles Interstate 280 (California) and Interstate 380 (California) to match the new configuration. Now, I have just set the I-280 article as good-practice for the moment. Thing is, only the new CA I- shields have been uploaded. Will post message(s) elsewhere as well. V60 VTalk - VDemolitions 09:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I've updated Infobox Interstate and Project U.S. Roads/Interstate accordingly. Please note that not every infobox needs to use "shield_ext", however, per "shield_ext" condition 4. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 16:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just ran into a little bit of a problem here.
 * User:Siebrand (on Commons) thinks that there is no now naming convention for the existing state Interstate shields. If that user concurs again, could you (and possibly Rschen7754, if he agreed to the new convention as well) support the new naming convention so as to fend him off?  Thanks if this is going to be the case. V60 VTalk - VDemolitions 04:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll keep an eye out for him over there. If he has any issues, I'll point him to the proposal. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 04:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

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Thanks
Thanks for cleaning up PA Routes 340, 999, 722, 324, and 741. I know they are still stubs, but I figured I get something started on those pages since I am from that area. Whammies Were Here (PYLrulz) 11:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. There's nothing wrong with a stub article - the only reason that I place "still a stub" in my edit summary when I clean up an article is that some editors might interpret a clean up as an expansion of the article, when most times this is not the case. To eliminate any confusion, I use "still a stub" in the summary. The articles that you have written are what (I think) are called "perfect stubs" on Wikipedia - articles that can stand on their own while leaving plenty of areas that can be expanded. Keep up the good work! Regards,  T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hutch exit list
You seem to be the "big cheese" as far as NYS roads, so I'd like your opinion of the exit list I've created for the Hutchinson River Parkway; I know it's not standard, but would like your input, nonetheless.

--Crispy1995
 * Honestly, I'm not a big fan of that style. It doesn't match any other exit list on Wikipedia, and is not compliant with the exit list guide used by WP:NYSR. My preference tends to lean towards an exit list like that on the Taconic State Parkway. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 22:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

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IH/ELG special case scenario formatting
I see that you changed the formatting rules for directions from to. I do see your reasoning, but I have to disagree. I see a lot of both. I put some examples online here. Look at the Misc. and Travels 1 albums. In Virginia at least, it seems that the newer signs get a capitalized first letter, while the older signs are all smallcaps/allcaps. In Maryland, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and parts of South Carolina, that seems to be the rule, too; new signs get a capitalized first letter. North Carolina and Ohio seem to use the allcaps (of course, I only have pictures of I-76 ten miles in to OH 7, so I can't speak about the whole state). Pictures from Colorado are on my other external hard drive at school, so I can't check that out.

But even at the same interchange, signs are different: at I-70 and I-81, before the interchange, approach signs on I-70 for 81 are (sm)allcaps, but signs at the exit are first-letter capitalized. At I-77 and I-81, I-77 north has (sm)allcaps, but I-81 south has the other way. I disagree with the change you made, and like I said, on newer signs, the trend seems to be to capitalize the first letter of the direction. Perhaps we should go to talk on this matter and ask for a larger input. -- M PD (T / C) 21:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, there already was a discussion on this issue at WT:IH/ELG, with the result narrowly favoring the use of all small caps. The arguments I took into account was the Wikipedia policy cited by NE2, and Rob's comments about single case directions being preferred over mixed case. Granted, I am biased in the fact that I live in New York (where I have never seen a mixed-case sign) but I am aware that mixed-case signs do exist from my (read: limited) travels in Pennsylvania. Feel free to resume discussion on this at WT:IH/ELG, but I believe that this discussion will likely result in a WP:USSH approach; that is, different guidelines by state. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 01:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know how I miss so many discussions, particularly when they occured so long ago (and they're on my watch page!). It's not that big of a deal right now, and I don't have the energy to rehash it right now.  I'm at home, and usually I don't do major editing or discussion at home.  I'll bring it up sometime in the future, just let everything chill for a bit.  It's no big deal for now; I'll live.  Although I feel the MOS doesn't address these particular issues.
 * Another question though: many exit lists I write, I split up A and B exits into two lines, if it's say, exit 178 northbound, but exit 178A and 178B southbound, I just note that under "Notes", or if it's exit 1 northbound for two exits, and exit 2 and 1 southbound, I note that. Is this a decent way of doing it?  The way I see it, it may not be clear as to where exit A and B go, do you get what I'm saying?  See Interstate 77 in North Carolina for an example.  It can be confusing, and I'm trying to figure out a better way to do it.  -- M PD  (T / C) 05:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The way that this situation is handled on the I-77 in NC page is the way I would handle it, personally. Perhaps we should bring up this issue on the talk page of the guide at some point as well, to see if anyone has any other ideas to display these exits (and thus eliminate any possible confusion). -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)