User talk:Tyler19732

Welcome Tyler19732! Now that you've joined Wikipedia, there are registered editors!

Hello, Tyler19732. Welcome to Wikipedia! I'm S0091, one of the other editors here, and I hope you decide to stay and help contribute to this amazing repository of knowledge.

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 Sincerely, S0091 (talk) 20:14, 16 July 2022 (UTC)  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:S0091&action=edit&section=new&preload=Template:WelcomeVisual/user-talk_preload (Leave me a message)]

Meat Loaf
Hi Tyler19732, thank you for your efforts to try to improve the article. I reverted your changes because of sourcing issues. Google Docs cannot be used on Wikipedia. What is need are reliable sources that have been publicly published, such are newspapers, magazines or books. I suggest trying Google Books first. Also, see this guide for how to add citations. If you have questions or need help, you can ask at the Teahouse. S0091 (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2022 (UTC)


 * the google doc sites multiple sources, including tour programs, the information comes from multiple people, including actual band members (such as kasim sulton, who was in the band for over 20 years)
 * if you look at the doc, the offical tour programs directly contradict the names used on multiple tours, heres another source for the tour programs https://mljs.evilnickname.org/meatloaf/ (the tour programs are at the bottom of the page) Tyler19732 (talk) 20:40, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry Tyler, I am not going to click on something that is not clear. What you need to do is cite the original published source, not a User-generated document or website. S0091 (talk) 20:47, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * the user generated website and document contain the original published source, its kind of the entire point for those sites existing Tyler19732 (talk) 20:52, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * in fact, this page uses the site i sent for its band member lineup section Tyler19732 (talk) 20:56, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, take a look at Last at Bat Tour and you will see three cited sources, BBC (great!), Famemagazie (not great) and Meatloaf.net (also not great but enough to verify). The sources do not need to be available online but do need to contain enough information someone can find it even if they need to go to a library.  Using a newspaper as an example, the name of the publication, publication date, author, etc. S0091 (talk) 20:58, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * the problem is, with alot of the tours from 1968 to 1992, most were so low profile that its extremely difficult to find the original sources, especially for Clubs 'N Pubs era (which isnt an offical tour by the way, fanmade name, its 4 different tours grouped together) Tyler19732 (talk) 21:03, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand but while things may be true, if there is no published reliable source for the information it should not be included. Wikipedia is after all an encyclopedia and not a publisher of original knowledge.  However, it does seem like published sources should exist like a book or article about the history of the band (like Rolling Stone or something like that).  If not then I imagine it would take some digging to pull together various sources to support the information. S0091 (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * the thing is, the digging for these sources has already been done on these sites, doing extra work just to get the exact same thing they already got is a waste of time that could be spent actually fixing this page, half of the tours are either missing or mislabeled (the AU 2004 shows are marked as their own tour?????? even though the last few shows dont even have the orchestra) Tyler19732 (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * one of the tours listed is just 4 tours grouped together with a fanmade name Tyler19732 (talk) 21:23, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If those sites used published reliable sources for their information, then you can use the sources they used. However, I do not see where they cited their sources but perhaps you can contact them to find out.  However, if they got the information from personal knowledge (either their own experience or what they know from others) then it cannot be used here.  What I suggest is if you know something listed is not true and is not sourced or has does not have its own article (even though those are poorly sourced as well) you can remove it entirely.  Just be sure to put a clear explanation in your edit summary.  S0091 (talk) 21:41, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * they didnt just use personal knowledge though, the site has the direct tour programs released by meat loaf and his management, all i did was add the correct tour names and timespans based on those offical programs (with the exception of the 1968 - 1971 tours) Tyler19732 (talk) 21:44, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmmm....the links take to me to another page on the blog, not an actual source. I did miss that they do provide some sources from books but its not clear what content they are supporting.  @Ritchie333, I consider you to be an expert on rock music topics so would like your thoughts.  This editor is trying to do the right thing here.  The source they are trying to use is this blog. I don't think we can use it as a source but I could be wrong.  If we can't use the blog, then is there other guidance you can provide?  Tyler, it will likely be a few days before Ritchie can respond and may not respond at all (we are all volunteers) but lets see. If you do not hear anything back in a week or so, please ping me (click on the person icon to select my user name) or post a note on my talk page (click the "talk" link by name which will take you my talk page), to remind me.  Thank you for the discussion and hopefully we can find some remedy. S0091 (talk) 22:23, 16 July 2022 (UTC)