User talk:U4268722

Image copyright problem with Image:Patongkoh.jpg
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 * Well, I see your image was deleted. Was it by any chance of a sugarless, inside-out donut served with breakfast coffee? Pawyilee (talk) 11:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Hope you check this page!
I agreed with your comment on the Talk page for Thai numerals, and proposed a compromise that I hope you see (and approve.) I'm trying to contact you on this page with respect to your observation:"It is widely accepted that the word 'Kam' (gold) in Cantonese is taken from an archaic Tai language (คำ), such as in ทองคำ (gold), หอคำ (golden pavillion) or in other archaic names of various places and things." In modern Thai, ทอง means anything that more-or-less resembles gold. คำ literally means a bite, but is more often used more-or-less metaphorically to mean something spoken, as, for instance, a syllable. In Central Thai, genuine gold is ทองคำ but in Isan where I live it is simply คำ One test for genuine gold is to see if biting it leaves a tooth mark; suspect that  ทองคำ  originally meant gold that passed such a bite test, and that the word for bite passed into Cantonese to mean real gold. Pawyilee (talk) 11:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response and I'm sorry for my late reply. Your suggestion on the original root of Kam is interesting. I haven't done any research on that in particular. However, I still have one comment on this issue. The fact that Thai language (and actually many monosyllabic languages) has its way to create new lexicon especially by combining different words or repeating the same-meaning words. Thai and Chinese are similar in that sense as many words in modern Chinese are composed of two words of the same meaning such as "language" 語言(speech+speech), "colour" 彩色(colour+colour), "run" 逃跑(run+run), "meet" 碰見(meet+meet), "recognise/acknowledge (a person)" 認識 (acknowledge+acknowledge), for example. In Thai, you may find a lot of this combination of similar meaning to form one word apart from "Gold", for instance, บ้านเรือน, ต้นไม้, กอบโกย,ว่องไว, ว่ากล่าว, เหลียวแล, ช้านาน, ถ้อยคำ, รูปภาพ, เก่าแก่, สวยงาม, etc. So, back to our "gold" issue! :) My sense is that both words, ทอง and คำ, mean gold but, perhaps, in different senses. ทอง normally refers to a metal form of gold as in mineral or tangible things such as สร้อยทอง, เครื่องทอง, ร้านทอง, แหวนทอง, ไหทอง, ตู้ทอง, which can be said optionally with or without คำ. Yet, คำ is more of an ideational forms of gold and its associated ideas such as colour, prosperity, respect, high value and even goodness. คำ in this sense unusually stands alone in modern usage and is normally found as a combination of words. I'm not sure about the story that you mentioned but it's interesting.
 * And probably wrong: I have no formal training in Thai, so I'm limited to what I pick up from dictionaries and conversations. I have found to my chagrin that it is no cakewalk figuring out what a word means from the definitions of its component parts. Anyway, I thank you for your response, which wasn't late at all!.From your examples:

So, back to our "gold" issue! :)
 * บ้านเรือน seems to me unrelated to Chinese compounds of two words of the same meaning. The latter seems to relate to thousands of years of internal migration with consequent scrambling of dialects and thus a need to pin down a meaning, while the former is more like US real estate agents' battle to erase the distinction between house and home so they could sell the latter as if it were the former. My sense of บ้าน is a basic meaning of "home" no matter how it's used, and that translations such as village are just conventions. Roofs, hearths and residences also get counted, perhaps for subtle distinctions, or for variety, or just to confuse foreigners. Anyway, I surmise that บ้านเรือน means a house that is a home; like ทองคำ it passes the "bite" test.
 * บาง as waterside village seems to be used only when there is a landing for a canoe without a need for a dock. I've not seen it used in Isan, except in someone's post to the origin of the name of Mukdahan Province, where the meanings is give as haven, which makes a lot of sense. It is at variance with Mukdahan, which is the result of my own amateurish meddling, but I haven't yet fixed it.
 * ท่า seems preferred for waterside locations around here, as in บ้านท่าช้าง but, even though Yasothon is on the River Chi, its วัตสิงห์ท่า seems to mean Wat of Imposing Lions. (Residents don't care either way, so long as you don’t say ท่าสิงห์.)
 * สร้อยทอง, ร้านทอง, แหวนทอง, and ตู้ทอง seem straightforwardly gold necklace, gold shop, gold ring and gold safe, but ไหทอง as gold jar or jug has me puzzled, and เครื่องทอง even more so: are these a goldsmith's wares, or his tools?
 * คำ as gold doesn't bother me, but นางไอ่คำ does. Everyone tells me it is just the name of the Rocket Festival heroine, but she bothers me. Pawyilee (talk) 14:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree that, in the case of Chinese, forming a word by combining the two same/similar meaning is evolved from that historical development when Mandarin has lost many tones throughout the process of being a lingua franca. So, it needs to be more specific by doubling words. However, I think Thai is not so much different when looking at this functional approach though not so obvious as in Chinese. Compound words, apart from increasing vocab entries, can also connote different sense in many ways.


 * For example, again, บ้านเรือน actually means 'houseS' not 'home' (That's my sense as a native Thai). It connotes specifically a plural form of 'house' and a collective notion as in 'household' as well. You wouldn't say 'This house is beautiful' in Thai as 'บ้านเรือนหลังนี้สวย' but 'บ้านหลังนี้สวย' or 'เรือนหลังนี้สวย'. Yet, when you talk about houses in the area are beautiful you would say 'บ้านเรือนแถวนี้สวย'. บ้าน carries more sense of 'home' as when you say, ผมคิดถึงบ้าน (I miss home). Again, you wouldn't say ผมคิดถึงเรือน or ผมคิดถึงบ้านเรือน
 * Another thought about our gold issue! :) I think my hunch on ทอง and คำ may bring about another thought about compund words in Thai language. There are many compound words that combine 'material' and 'ideational'notions of the same literal meaning. ทอง and คำ literally mean gold but with different notions as I mentioned earlier. In this way, บ้านเรือน is also similar. บ้าน is more ideational (as a house with family, relationship and love) while เรือน is merely a physical house. (By the way, เครื่องทอง are goldsmith's wares, and ไหทอง is just my example of any material made from gold).
 * I tend to agree with your comments about ท่า บาง though I know nothing about วัดสิงห์่ท่า's history.
 * About Mukdakarn's original name, I don't know if you meant บางมุก. If so, you might have misheard it. It's supposed to be บังมุก. บัง means a narrow river or a creek that connects to a big natural resevoir or a bigger river (talking about this..I suddenly have a thought of one particular compound word widely refers to water related area. It is ห้วยหนองคลองบึง. It's another way of forming vocabs though source-outcome construction. In this case ห้วย originates หนอง, so คลอง does บึง). Perhaps, if you relate this meaning to 'haven' it could make more sense. I am not familiar with Mukdakran's geographical location so I can't imagine how this explanation might fit it.
 * Another guess on นางไอ่คำ. I have a feeling that คำ in this name is just an honourary suffix. As I mentioned last time that คำ could also means something good, respected, valuable. Perhaps, to call นางไอ่คำ is to reflect how beloved and valuable นางไอ่ is to his father, the King of Suvarnakhomkham or Ekdhita city. Hope my explanation could ease your irritation. Thank you. :))
 * I think you're right about the honorary suffix, which is often dropped. The remaining syllable then allows a play on 'vapor trail', as beautiful ones get extra points in rocket festivals; and also a play on 'shy' (which she is not, unless she's pretending.) In Rocket Festival, I imply that นางไอ่คำ means she's the 'genuine article'. Close enough? (BTW, I feel like I'm married to her latest incarnation!) And there used to be a distinction between house and home until real estate agents erased it (in the US).
 * Mukdahan Province seems to have been written by a native, while Mukdahan was mostly written by Pawyilee (talk) 17:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

That Kong Khao Noi
Here's another gold issue. There are two That Kong Khao Nois. The famed pilgrimage site is conveniently located by Highway 23, next to Ban Tadthong. The village name relates to an award given to the wat where the chedi's erector had become a monk. The official version (in a handbook for children) says the award was a golden broom, and 'tad' refers to the pattern left in temple sand when a monk sweeps it neatly with a broom. The other version says the 'tadthong' was a gold platter, and the villagers deliberately misspelled 'tad' to mean 'lace' or 'interlace' instead of platter, to ward thieves off from their gold. I think that 'thong' would be taken to mean 'golden' when referring to a broom, but 'thong kham' or real gold in case of the other.

The older, less known chedi is in poor shape, and is inconveniently located to the rear of Wat Thung, off Highway 202, still in T.Tadthong, but in Mu 6, Ban Sadao. The 'thung' may be the very field where the hot-headed hungry peasant struck his mother for bringing him only a small container of rice for his noon meal; or maybe not. That the peasant was surprised when only half of the container's rice filled him up, may relate to his not knowing it was sticky rice. Or maybe not. But if so, then the story could hark back to the introduction of the sticky stuff, which certainly sticks to the ribs, as we say in the US of anything filling. But the story only says that, when he tried to rouse his poor mother to eat the remaining rice herself, he found he had struck her dead. Who knows where? And who cares? But, where's the gold platter?

I've not written it up for Wikipedia, as it is original research, but I may just post it to Wikitravel. :) Pawyilee (talk) 18:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Dipankara Rasmijoti
Where do you get the sources for the new name? Google gives almost 5,000 results for Dipangkorn Rasmijoti. Meanwhile, Dipankara Rasmijoti only gets four results, and all of these mention the prince as Dipankorn Rasmijoti, with Dipankara mentioned elsewhere. Morhange (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PolSciCU.jpg
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University House
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