User talk:Uerasde2001

February 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Afrikaner has been reverted. Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline from Wikipedia. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. I removed the following link(s): http://http://pamle.blogspot.com/2008/11/history-of-italians-in-south-africa.html (matching the regex rule \bblog(?:cu|fa|harbor|mybrain|post|savy|spot|townhall)?\.com\b). If the external link you inserted or changed was to a blog, forum, free web hosting service, or similar site, then please check the information on the external site thoroughly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creator's copyright (see Linking to copyrighted works), or they are not written by a recognised, reliable source. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see conflict of interest). If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 20:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

April 2010
Your recent edit appears to have added incorrect information and has been reverted or removed. All information in this encyclopedia must be verifiable in a reliable, published source. If you believe the information that you added was correct, please cite the references or sources or before making the changes, discuss them on the article's talk page. Please use the sandbox for any tests that you wish to make. Do take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thank you. &mdash; Paine ( Ellsworth's   Climax )  01:50, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * PS. [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. When you make a change to an article, please provide an edit summary, which you forgot to do before saving your recent edit to South Africa. Doing so helps everyone to understand the intention of your edit. It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. Please provide the edit summary before saving your edits. Thank you very much!


 * I second the above because I have caught you TWICE now removing an entire paragraph which was loaded with sources yet you provide no explanation of having done so. I also just caught you posting a erroneous & incomplete assertion with the line: "The Afrikaners or Africans refer to the Boer people" because only a PORTION of the "Afrikaners" are of Boer descent as the vast majority of Afrikaners are of Cape Dutch descent. This is because the Cape Dutch [ the Afrikaans speaking community of the south western Cape of non-Boer origin ] are much more NUMEROUS than the Boers. The Boers developed on the north eastern Cape frontier during the late 1600s & throughout the 1700s long BEFORE the Cape Dutch population coalesced. Therefore it is statistically & mathematically impossible for ALL of the Afrikaners to be from the Boers. Historians have noted that the Afrikaner designation only came about [ in a political context ] when the Cape Dutch & Boers were joined [ circa 1930s onward ] in a political based coalition as per the then political attempts at capturing the macro State of South Africa from the British. The Boer segment are a documented distinct entity - just as the Acadians are a distinct French speaking entity from the Quebecois - from the bulk of the Afrikaners because the Cape Dutch segment is LARGER than the Boer segment & the Boers have been a distinct entity since the late 17th cent when they began to trek out of & AWAY from the Cape Dutch [ proto Afrikaner ] population.

Ron7 (talk) 02:39, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Your point on the referencing is valid, and as a post grad history major in Pretoria I should have know better, that being said: the translation in the statement "The Afrikaners or Africans refer to the Boer people", should be seen in its contemporary usage. The Voortrekkers had deep empathy for their family members that where still in the Cape Colony "Reffed to as Cape Dutch" by the British - and only the British- in the Cape. Please consider that you might have been a Voortrekker, and your Brother or part of your family stayed behind in the Cape while you moved to the interior, themes like this are prevalent in famous Boer literature like Geknelde Land, and was noted by Author Canon Doyle in his book The Great Boer War When he reffed to the deep pity that the Transvaal Republic felt for their people still under the British in the Cape Colony, thus, it would be ludicrous to tally ethnicity different among siblings with the same parents? Off course I will accept if you can find an article stating that their is an ethnic difference between Cape Dutch, Boer, Trekboer and Voortrekker. In the Afrikaans community the only distinction in the cultural group is made between weather you are a Boer with a Voortrekker heritage or not,much like the American South will claim connection to the battle of Hastings. That being said, its wonderful to hear of a Canadian who studied Boer history and you are more than welcome to email me at verkennersbaate@gmail.com.


 * I see that you are a bit confused here. The family that the Boers of Voortrekker descent had at the Cape were from the Boer community of the EASTERN Cape: the folks who would later on become known as the Cape Rebels during the second Anglo-Boer War for fighting on the side of their cousins of the Boer Republics. The folks who were referred to as the Cape Dutch did not encompass everyone living at the Cape ONLY those folks who coalesced within the south western Cape region. The folks who did not become Trekboers. Those sedentary folks of the Western Cape were very pro Colonial & pro British & often did not sympathize with the Boers of the frontiers. The Boers of the frontiers were anti-Colonial / very independence oriented & were often looked down on [ as noted by Professor Wallace Mills ] by the Cape Dutch who ALSO ridiculed the Boers later for wanting to trek further into Africa during the Great Trek. The Boers of non-Voortrekker descent who stayed behind in the EASTERN Cape are still Boers part of the same ethnicity as the Boers are ALL of Trekboer descent.


 * The Trekboers were the impoverished nomads who left the Western Cape & trekked inland into the north eastern Cape frontier during the late 1600s & throughout the 1700s & it was from the nomadic Trekboers that the Boer people came from. The folks who remained in the Western Cape were the ones known as the Cape Dutch & were generally more affluent & educated than the Boers. The term Cape Dutch was first coined by the Trekboers to describe the folks at the Western Cape they left behind long before the British adopted the term. Please be mindful of the fact that Boer history was rewritten / hijacked & outright distorted by the generally Cape Dutch descended run Broederbond during the 1930s onwards as part of an attempt at conflating the Boers with the Cape Dutch as they "required" the Boers' history in order to propagate themselves into power within the new macro State of South Africa as they required an Afrikaans speaking coalition in order to do this so as to outnumber the English speakers within the political realm. This is important to remember because they began calling Boers like Paul Kruger / Andries Pretorius "Afrikaners" as part of their usurpation process. Also please remember that the term Afrikaner was first appropriated in a political context by some Cape Dutch intellectuals in 1875 during a language rights movement in Paarl at a time when most of the Boers were independent within their internationally recognized Boer Republics or were still on the Cape frontier.


 * While the term Afrikaner dates back to 1707 as it was used as a defense in court by an individual who saw himself as "African" [ Afrikaner ] & not a European & did not want to be judged by a European power & the term was also used among the Trekboers to describe their connection to Africa [ ironically to distinguish themselves from the Cape Dutch whom they left behind & did not regard as African as per their loyalty to the Colonial powers ] & the fact that they saw Africa as their home: it is important to remember that it was used in a GEOGRAPHICAL context [ ie: anyone of White & mixed race born in Africa was regarded as an "Afrikaner" ] as the term Afrikaner did not take on the political context it did until some Cape Dutch intellectuals began to appropriate the term for themselves for the purpose of describing their language. IE: the term Afrikaner from 1875 onwards was REDEFINED to mean anyone whose native language was Afrikaans but this did not include the Boers [ only rhetorically prior as the Cape Dutch had little influence on the independent Boers of the Boer Republics & the Afrikaner Bond was rebuffed by both President Paul Kruger & President Marthinus Styen ] until long after the second Anglo-Boer War as the Boers at that point were so impoverished [ having lost their farms & way of life ] that they were unable to stand up to & or prevent themselves from being co-opted by the Cape Dutch all under the Afrikaner designation & the rubric of Afrikaner Nationalism in particular.

Ron7 (talk) 02:09, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Also do not forget that the terms Voortrekker & Great Trek were created by the Cape Dutch run Broederbond during the 20th cent as part of a program of appropriating Boer history & hijacking the inheritance of the Boer people in order to co-opt them as part of the then emerging Afrikaner Nationalist agenda to capture the macro State of South Africa from the British. During the time period in question of the Great Trek - the Boers who trekked might have been called Trekkers & did not distinguish themselves from the family they left behind BUT they all distinguished themselves from the Cape Dutch of the Western Cape some of whom began calling themselves Afrikaners in a political context from 1875 onwards. This is still significant to this day as the Cape Dutch descendents are more numerous than the Boer descendents & is why Afrikaner intellectuals marginalize the Boers & their long held outlook of wanting self determination.

Ron7 (talk) 02:21, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

There is also an ethnic difference due to the fact that quite a lot of the Germans who settled during the 1700s settled directly to the north eastern Cape region where the Boers developed. This is significant because the Boer region was less populated than the Cape Dutch region therefore any new arrivals would make a more significant impact on the smaller group. This is not always discernible due to the fact that names were often respelled to conform to a Dutch spelling [ just as numerous French names were too but certainly most French names retained their original spelling ] as per VOC policy but it appears that that the Boers would be much more of north western German origin due to this. Studies concerning the ethnic origins of White Afrikaans speakers in general have been done but so far [ as far as I am aware ] there have not been any done focusing on just one or the other segment. I suspect that there would be some different results based on the history of the settlement pattern.

Ron7 (talk) 02:31, 30 April 2010 (UTC)