User talk:Ukexpat/Archive 12

Australian Television Schedules
Would I be able to revive theAustralain Daytime Televison and Primetime schedules.We have an American one so why not a Australian one?

Cheers, Bruce65 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce65 (talk • contribs) 08:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
I responded to your message on my talk page. Thanks! ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 19:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

West End Watch Co

 * I am trying to help you here, so why did you delete all my painstaking work with the FixBunching templates without even asking me? – ukexpat (talk) 15:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello oh sorry I wanted to see the difference with and without the FixBunching and I think I published by mistake when I deleted and I didn't notice that. But actually like that looks not that bad, what do you think ? --CINDY1983 (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I just added a little bit more information about IXO. I'll probably add the whole article by the end of week.

Sincerely yours, Olga Vovk IXO web curator —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olga Vovk (talk • contribs) 21:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

what is message
hi it is musclebomber here what is your message —Preceding unsigned comment added by Musclebombared (talk • contribs) 22:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Dear Ukexpat, I looked at the page you asked me to look, but I did not find any conflict of interest. Could you please to explain me in more detail what did you mean saying"conflict of interest" regarding to the article about IXO. Thank you in advance, Sincerely Yours Olga Vovk OV 15:14, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Lkjh869
Hey Ukexpat, just letting you know that I changed your speedy at Lkjh869 from CSD G3 to A7. I don't understand which part of it looked like vandalism/a hoax to you, it seems like a non notable web game player to me. Best - Kingpin13 (talk) 18:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

any damp?
wats ur buzz

Thank you for the welcome. We meant taking over in a non-literal sense. We simply wanted to make sure that the page was not deleted. We know it looks bad now, but that is simply because we are not finished. We just wanted everyone to be aware that we are going to make it better so please just give us time. Thank you!

Beth220 (talk) 23:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

File:IChill supp.jpg
Facts cannot be copyrighted nor is there anything copyrightable in the simple layout. feydey (talk) 14:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Hotel 1000
Hello,

I am trying to creat a Wikipedia page for Hotel 1000 in Seattle. I notied a few other hotels are on Wikipedia, such as Beverly Hilton. I revieved the note that my page may be deleted. What do I need to do to not have my page deleted. We are getting into the Social Media world and want a presence of Hotel 1000 on Wikipedia.

Thank you --Hotel1000 (talk) 19:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

RE: Weather day
While I sympathize with your exasperation and do definitely think that the CSD criteria should be expanded to include neologisms, we unfortunately must follow the rules; that was not a G1. Sorry. Glass  Cobra  20:03, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle
Thanks for the help, it works now. (I don't think I'm four days old though, look at my talk page, it seems someone autoconfirmed me.) Programmer101 (talk) 15:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Jim Neversink
Hello again,

did you assess the Jim Neversink article? If not, how do I find out who did it? I have made several improvements and would like to know if it might climb the scale - so if it was you, would you mind having another look at it?

Best

--Skara B  09:32, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit an Artists Page
Hello:

I am asking is it possible to edit or one of your editor's to edit the artists page at Tania Doko's request.

The information follows the documentation already existing however, new information needs to be updated. The back up links remain the same and others have been provided below.

The order of what has been placed there was current but does need to reflect the artist at present.

I would imagine that Wikipedia would want current as well as correct information concerning their pages.

I have included the changes that were OK'd via the artist. Links of support are included below.

Thank you,

--Ussee (talk) 21:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko is a singer from Melbourne, Australia, best known for being one half of the band Bachelor Girl.

Contents[hide]·	1 Bachelor Girl·	2 Popstars Live·	3 Solo Artist·	4 She Said Yes·	5 External Links

[edit] Bachelor Girl

Main article: Bachelor Girl.

Bachelor Girl formed in 1992 when songwriter and record producer James Roche met vocalist Tania Doko.[1] Roche was creating a demo tape of a song he wrote for and Australian girl group, Girlfriend, and when his original singer canceled, he recruited Doko. The duo began writing and recording and put together a demo CD. They performed at several Melbourne showcases looking for a record deal and found a deal with Gotham Records in 1997, after Sony rejected them.[1]

In 1998 Bachelor Girl’s debut single, Buses and Trains,” was not only an Australian smash but an International hit as well. The song-writing chemistry between Tania and James was explosive and their double platinum-selling debut, “Waiting For The Day” won them the 1998 ARIA for Best Producer. In 1999, with 4 ARIA Award nominations and the APRA Award for Song of The Year & PPCA most played song on Australian radio (Buses & Trains), Bachelor Girl rode high on the airwaves and the charts as their debut release spawned five smash hit singles including “Buses and Trains”, “Treat Me Good’’ and the anthemic Australian classic “Permission To Shine”. Bachelor Girl’s second album was called Dysfunctional (2002). A release which would include the featured hits “I’m Just a Girl” & “Drowning Not Waving”.

The band split in 2003 after the release of their second album proved less successful. A third album was recorded, though not released (A track from that album is available on Tania Doko's EP "To Whom it May Concern).

[edit] Popstars Live

Main article: Popstars Live.

In 2004, Tania Doko was joined by fellow musician John Paul Young as an artist mentor on a revised version of the Popstars television franchise. The show was intended as the Seven Network's answer to the then new success of Network Ten's Australian Idol. The idea of Seven's version was to provide a friendlier show, without the often harsh criticisms dealt by Idol. However, after the first airing attracted under 850,000 viewers nationally, the judges (Ian "Molly" Meldrum, Christine Anu and Shauna Jensen) were instructed to make their comments nastier and more direct. John Paul Young and Christine Anu refused, which soon resulted them both leaving the show.

As ratings continued to fall, the Sunday program was moved to Saturday, before being dropped altogether, leaving just a Wednesday night show. The failure of the series (especially when compared with the first season) is largely attributed to the bungled delivery of the live pilot episode, and fiery disagreements between the producers, Young and Anu.

[edit] She Said Yes Constantly writing, recording, and performing Tania put together a new album and a new electro rock band called SHE SAID YES (SSY). Joining her in the group were former Savage Garden drummer Karl Lewis and special guests Rexx Fernandex or Shannon Trottman. In 2007, the band toured with Darren Hayes on The Time Machine Tour, which was soon followed by an appearance on Channel Seven's breakfast show Sunrise. An EP was also released, with tracks including: All My Fault, Plastic, Disappointed, Popkillah, Potential, and the "Mr Lewis Remix" of All My Fault.

Later in 2007, the artist’s singing/acting talents landed her a role in ‘SERIOUSLY, the Pet Shop Boys Reinterpreted’, a production that would take her to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Her performances there garnered the artist rave reviews and endorsements from many people including the Pet Shop Boys themselves.

[edit] Solo Artist

After a string of live appearances post-Bachelor Girl, Doko released her first solo EP in 2008. To Whom it May Concern was the title of an unreleased Bachelor Girl track, and features as a bonus on the EP, with other songs including: Come Another Day, Disappointed, Permission to Shine, All My Fault and Blackwater Tears. The acoustic installment was released to coincide with the highly successful 2008 national tour “Let’s Get Together”. A tour which included Tania, Jon Stevens, Ian Moss and Jack Jones aka Irwin Thomas.

The first part of 2009 found Tania and DJ Darren Glen collaborating and completing the track “Curious”. Recently released digitally, Doko is taking the track throughout Europe in September '09. Tania’s powerful vocals can also be heard as she performs with The Veronicas on the single,” Don’t Say Goodbye” (Featuring Tania Doko).

Currently, Tania is working on her solo career and is managed by Robert Speed Productions Artist Management.

With her Bachelor of Arts degree, Doko uses her musical credentials to help disadvantaged young people in the juvenile justice system, alongside the Whitelion organization. She holds workshops at Parkville Detention Centre and has also created an annual free concert at Melbourne's Luna Park - Joy in the Park. All of which is designed to raise the profile of Whitelion's work, and to give young people a good time as well.

[edit] External Links "Popstars Dead" - Article from The Sydney Morning Herald, April 3, 2004. Tania Doko on MySpace She Said Yes on MySpace Singer Tania Doko Inspired to Help Boost Organ and Tissue Donation http://www.transplant.org.au/content.aspx?PageID=6&ItemID=81, July 22, 2008 Fringe Musical  2007 http://www.one4review.com/Musicals_/musicals2007/seriously_p_s_b_.htm, Fringe Musical  2007 http://www.myspace.com/robertspeedproductions

Objection to deletion of Tania Doko page
The material that is on Tania's page has all the proper authentication and was listed favorably.

We would not like her page to be deleted just because we wanted to add additions to her page.

We would prefer the page be left as is rather than have this removed.

She is an authenticated double platinum recording artist and the links within Wikipedia as well as out reflect this.

Please remove the tag for deletion from her page.

Thank you,

--Ussee (talk) 00:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 21 September 2009

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Thanks for the heads up! We are strictly compiling data from other sources and will continue to find better sources to present unbiased information. We'll take a good look at the essay policy and do some major editing in the coming days! Thanks Smgaynor (talk) 00:43, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko
Hello Ukexpat:

Thank you for your response. To be very honest with you I find this format rather confusing.

First, the original Tania Doko Wikipedia page was not revised, the actual revisions were not accepted. So, if this version was accepted in the beginning why is the Tania Doko page being re-directed to the Bachelor Girl page?

Does the re-direction mean the editors prefer one page as verses two different pages?

She is also an Australian artist so are the guidelines the same?

We believed that the links we provided were links that proved authenticity however, if these links are not enough. We would think that the original page of Tania's would be returned as verses being re-directed.

Could you explain this?

Also what does Non-Musician mean?

Can you let us know where we stand in simple terms on this matter?

Thank you in advance,

--Ussee (talk) 02:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Jim Neversink
Hello again,

did you assess the Jim Neversink article? If not, how do I find out who did it? I have made several improvements and would like to know if it might climb the scale - so if it was you, would you mind having another look at it?

Best

--Skara B  09:32, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit an Artists Page
Hello:

I am asking is it possible to edit or one of your editor's to edit the artists page at Tania Doko's request.

The information follows the documentation already existing however, new information needs to be updated. The back up links remain the same and others have been provided below.

The order of what has been placed there was current but does need to reflect the artist at present.

I would imagine that Wikipedia would want current as well as correct information concerning their pages.

I have included the changes that were OK'd via the artist. Links of support are included below.

Thank you,

--Ussee (talk) 21:00, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko is a singer from Melbourne, Australia, best known for being one half of the band Bachelor Girl.

Contents[hide]·	1 Bachelor Girl·	2 Popstars Live·	3 Solo Artist·	4 She Said Yes·	5 External Links

[edit] Bachelor Girl

Main article: Bachelor Girl.

Bachelor Girl formed in 1992 when songwriter and record producer James Roche met vocalist Tania Doko.[1] Roche was creating a demo tape of a song he wrote for and Australian girl group, Girlfriend, and when his original singer canceled, he recruited Doko. The duo began writing and recording and put together a demo CD. They performed at several Melbourne showcases looking for a record deal and found a deal with Gotham Records in 1997, after Sony rejected them.[1]

In 1998 Bachelor Girl’s debut single, Buses and Trains,” was not only an Australian smash but an International hit as well. The song-writing chemistry between Tania and James was explosive and their double platinum-selling debut, “Waiting For The Day” won them the 1998 ARIA for Best Producer. In 1999, with 4 ARIA Award nominations and the APRA Award for Song of The Year & PPCA most played song on Australian radio (Buses & Trains), Bachelor Girl rode high on the airwaves and the charts as their debut release spawned five smash hit singles including “Buses and Trains”, “Treat Me Good’’ and the anthemic Australian classic “Permission To Shine”. Bachelor Girl’s second album was called Dysfunctional (2002). A release which would include the featured hits “I’m Just a Girl” & “Drowning Not Waving”.

The band split in 2003 after the release of their second album proved less successful. A third album was recorded, though not released (A track from that album is available on Tania Doko's EP "To Whom it May Concern).

[edit] Popstars Live

Main article: Popstars Live.

In 2004, Tania Doko was joined by fellow musician John Paul Young as an artist mentor on a revised version of the Popstars television franchise. The show was intended as the Seven Network's answer to the then new success of Network Ten's Australian Idol. The idea of Seven's version was to provide a friendlier show, without the often harsh criticisms dealt by Idol. However, after the first airing attracted under 850,000 viewers nationally, the judges (Ian "Molly" Meldrum, Christine Anu and Shauna Jensen) were instructed to make their comments nastier and more direct. John Paul Young and Christine Anu refused, which soon resulted them both leaving the show.

As ratings continued to fall, the Sunday program was moved to Saturday, before being dropped altogether, leaving just a Wednesday night show. The failure of the series (especially when compared with the first season) is largely attributed to the bungled delivery of the live pilot episode, and fiery disagreements between the producers, Young and Anu.

[edit] She Said Yes Constantly writing, recording, and performing Tania put together a new album and a new electro rock band called SHE SAID YES (SSY). Joining her in the group were former Savage Garden drummer Karl Lewis and special guests Rexx Fernandex or Shannon Trottman. In 2007, the band toured with Darren Hayes on The Time Machine Tour, which was soon followed by an appearance on Channel Seven's breakfast show Sunrise. An EP was also released, with tracks including: All My Fault, Plastic, Disappointed, Popkillah, Potential, and the "Mr Lewis Remix" of All My Fault.

Later in 2007, the artist’s singing/acting talents landed her a role in ‘SERIOUSLY, the Pet Shop Boys Reinterpreted’, a production that would take her to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Her performances there garnered the artist rave reviews and endorsements from many people including the Pet Shop Boys themselves.

[edit] Solo Artist

After a string of live appearances post-Bachelor Girl, Doko released her first solo EP in 2008. To Whom it May Concern was the title of an unreleased Bachelor Girl track, and features as a bonus on the EP, with other songs including: Come Another Day, Disappointed, Permission to Shine, All My Fault and Blackwater Tears. The acoustic installment was released to coincide with the highly successful 2008 national tour “Let’s Get Together”. A tour which included Tania, Jon Stevens, Ian Moss and Jack Jones aka Irwin Thomas.

The first part of 2009 found Tania and DJ Darren Glen collaborating and completing the track “Curious”. Recently released digitally, Doko is taking the track throughout Europe in September '09. Tania’s powerful vocals can also be heard as she performs with The Veronicas on the single,” Don’t Say Goodbye” (Featuring Tania Doko).

Currently, Tania is working on her solo career and is managed by Robert Speed Productions Artist Management.

With her Bachelor of Arts degree, Doko uses her musical credentials to help disadvantaged young people in the juvenile justice system, alongside the Whitelion organization. She holds workshops at Parkville Detention Centre and has also created an annual free concert at Melbourne's Luna Park - Joy in the Park. All of which is designed to raise the profile of Whitelion's work, and to give young people a good time as well.

[edit] External Links "Popstars Dead" - Article from The Sydney Morning Herald, April 3, 2004. Tania Doko on MySpace She Said Yes on MySpace Singer Tania Doko Inspired to Help Boost Organ and Tissue Donation http://www.transplant.org.au/content.aspx?PageID=6&ItemID=81, July 22, 2008 Fringe Musical  2007 http://www.one4review.com/Musicals_/musicals2007/seriously_p_s_b_.htm, Fringe Musical  2007 http://www.myspace.com/robertspeedproductions

Objection to deletion of Tania Doko page
The material that is on Tania's page has all the proper authentication and was listed favorably.

We would not like her page to be deleted just because we wanted to add additions to her page.

We would prefer the page be left as is rather than have this removed.

She is an authenticated double platinum recording artist and the links within Wikipedia as well as out reflect this.

Please remove the tag for deletion from her page.

Thank you,

--Ussee (talk) 00:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 21 September 2009

 * From the editor: Call for opinion pieces
 * News and notes: Footnotes updated, WMF office and jobs, Strategic Planning and more
 * Wikipedia in the news: Wales everywhere, participation statistics, and more
 * Discussion report: Discussion Reports and Miscellaneous Articulations
 * WikiProject report: WikiProject Video games
 * Features and admins: Approved this week
 * Arbitration report: The Report on Lengthy Litigation
 * Technology report: Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News

Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 00:08, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! We are strictly compiling data from other sources and will continue to find better sources to present unbiased information. We'll take a good look at the essay policy and do some major editing in the coming days! Thanks Smgaynor (talk) 00:43, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko
Hello Ukexpat:

Thank you for your response. To be very honest with you I find this format rather confusing.

First, the original Tania Doko Wikipedia page was not revised, the actual revisions were not accepted. So, if this version was accepted in the beginning why is the Tania Doko page being re-directed to the Bachelor Girl page?

Does the re-direction mean the editors prefer one page as verses two different pages?

She is also an Australian artist so are the guidelines the same?

We believed that the links we provided were links that proved authenticity however, if these links are not enough. We would think that the original page of Tania's would be returned as verses being re-directed.

Could you explain this?

Also what does Non-Musician mean?

Can you let us know where we stand in simple terms on this matter?

Thank you in advance,

--Ussee (talk) 02:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko
Hello:

Thank you so much for creating the subpage. I have put the article together as you suggested and found all of the references and included them. I am at a complete loss though as how or what to do with it. The directions say if it is saved it is in plain view. I would like it to be reviewed to make sure everything is fine.

I do not know at present whether to save it in the sandbox or to what to do next. I have literally spent hours doing this so I hope you do not mind but I have placed a version here as I do not know what else to do at this point.

Would you review it and tell me the steps to place this back on Tania's own page. I would truly apprecitate all the help I could get to male sure all is correct and her page is placed back on its own.

Tania Doko

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search

Tania Doko is a singer from Melbourne, Australia, best known for being one half of the band Bachelor Girl. [1] She is the lead singer of indie electro pop band She Said Yes, and also releases tracks as a solo artist.

Doko is currently featured on the track, Curious, by Darren Glen.(2)

Contents[hide] ·1 Bachelor Girl ·2 Popstars Live ·3 Solo Artist ·4 She Said Yes ·5 External Links [edit] Bachelor Girl

Main article: Bachelor Girl.

Record producer James Roche met Doko as she was performing in a Melbourne pub in 1992. Roche was immediately impressed with the 18 year old's voice, and he invited her to provide the vocals for a demo track he was recording for Australian girl group, Girlfriend. The pair soon found they shared some song-writing chemistry, and Bachelor Girl was formed. [1]

Bachelor Girl scored a record deal with Gotham Records in 1997, and the first album, Waiting for the Day, was released on November 9, 1998. The first single, Buses and Trains, reached number 4 on the Australian charts, number 6 in New Zealand, 29 in Sweden and 84 in the UK. The song recently featured in Australian music-television station Max's Top 500 ANZACs (a countdown of the best acts of all time from Australia and New Zealand) at number 291.

The album spawned three more singles; Treat Me Good, Lucky Me and Blown Away. A further track, Permission to Shine, was released as a radio-only promo.

Bachelor Girl released their second album, Dysfunctional, in 2002. Two singles were released; I'm Just a Girl and Drowning, Not Waving. Unfortunately the album was not successful enough to secure a third release.

The band split in 2003. A demo track, To Whom it May Concern, from the never-released third Bachelor Girl album was featured on Tania Doko's 2008 EP (of the same name).

[edit] Popstars Live

Main article: Popstars Live.

In 2004, Tania Doko was joined by fellow musician John Paul Young as an artist mentor on a revised version of the Popstars television franchise. The show was intended as the Seven Network's answer to the then new success of Network Ten's Australian Idol. The idea of Seven's version was to provide a friendlier show, without the often harsh criticisms dealt by Idol. However, after the first airing attracted under 850,000 viewers nationally, the judges (Ian "Molly" Meldrum, Christine Anu and Shauna Jensen) were instructed to make their comments nastier and more direct. John Paul Young and Christine Anu refused, which soon resulted them both leaving the show.

As ratings continued to fall, the Sunday program was moved to Saturday, before being dropped altogether, leaving just a Wednesday night show. The failure of the series (especially when compared with the first season) is largely attributed to the bungled delivery of the live pilot episode, and fiery disagreements between the producers, Young and Anu. (3)

[edit] Solo Artist

After a string of live appearances post-Bachelor Girl, Doko released her first solo EP in 2008. All the tracks are original acoustic performances.

In 2009, Doko collaborated with DJ Darren Glen on a track titled Curious. (2) Recently released digitally, Doko is taking the track throughout Europe in September '09.

Doko perfomed with The Veronicas on the single,” Don’t Say Goodbye” (Featuring Tania Doko). (4)

With her Bachelor of Arts degree, Doko also uses her musical credentials to help disadvantaged young people in the juvenile justice system. Doko, holds workshops at Parkville Detention Centre and has created an annual free concert at Melbourne's Luna Park - Joy in the Park.(5) (6)

[edit] She Said Yes

With Doko on vocals, former Savage Garden drummer Karl Lewis are joined by special guests Rexx Fernandex or Shannon Trottman on their "exploding vanity project", consisting of electro-pop sounds. In 2007, the band toured with Darren Hayes on The Time Machine Tour, (7) which was soon followed by an appearance on Channel Seven's breakfast show Sunrise. An EP was also released, with tracks including: All My Fault, Plastic, Disappointed, Popkillah, Potential, and the "Mr Lewis Remix" of All My Fault.(8)

Also in 2007, Doko performed in ‘SERIOUSLY, the Pet Shop Boys Reinterpreted’, a production that was at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. (8)

The band recently performed their last show for 2009 at Priscilla's 153 in Prahran, Melbourne.

References

1.^ a b Bachelor Girl at Allmusic 2.http://www.traxsource.com/index.php?act=show&fc=tpage&cr=titles&cv=34366.Curios 3."Popstars Dead" - Article from The Sydney Morning Herald, April 3, 2004. 4.http://www.imeem.com/avieronicas/music/SBApYM6c/the-veronicas-dont-say-goodbye-featuring-tania-doko/ 5.http://www.lunapark.com.au/files/joyinthepark.pdf. Media Release 6.http://www.theharbouragency.com/artist-profile/tania-doko 7.http://www.showbiz.com.au/PerformanceDetail.aspx?pid=NKJp%2BhKB72c%3D, December 31, 2007 8.http://www.themusic.com.au/imm_display.php?s=christie&id=222&q=tania%20doko, Article October 9, 2007

Sincerely, --Ussee (talk) 03:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko
To ukexpat:

Thank you so much for all of your help and suggestions.

Sincerely, --Ussee (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Futher Question
Thanx --Mark Pearcy (talk) 21:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

So it seems this band does not have enough merit to qulify for a page, correct ?--Mark Pearcy (talk) 18:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Tania Doko
Hello Ukexpat:

I did as you suggested and had another editor review the work.

He suggested making the lead paragraph more notible.After this he also said, "When you think it is ready, you can use the "move" tab to move it to mainspace. If you look for that tab now, you won't see it, but after you make three more edits, it will appear."

So, I deleted the second sentence (She is the lead singer of indie electro pop band She Said Yes, and also releases tracks as a solo artist.) The third sentence ( Doko is currently featured on the track, Curious, by Darren Glen)and replaced it with the fourth paragraph from (SOLO ARTIST)

(With her Bachelor of Arts degree, Doko also uses her musical credentials to help disadvantaged young people in the juvenile justice system. Doko, holds workshops at Parkville Detention Centre and has created an annual free concert at Melbourne's Luna Park - Joy in the Park.(5)(6))

I also made the last sentence under SHE SAID YES (The band recently performed their last show for 2009 at Priscilla's 153 in Prahran, Melbourne.) more concise.

This would be three edits.

My problem though is during this time there was a site glitch and the references I had in order and on the subpage page came up after the error on the page as an error and I do not know how to put the reference and top paragraph back the way it should be.

Would you be so kind as to help get the reference back as it was. Also, I have done the three edits the other editor suggested so will I then see the move tab so I can move it to main space? (Where will the move space appear?)

Here is the subpage User:Ussee/Tania Doko

References

1.^ a b Bachelor Girl at Allmusic 2.http://www.traxsource.com/index.php?act=show&fc=tpage&cr=titles&cv=34366.Curios 3."Popstars Dead" - Article from The Sydney Morning Herald, April 3, 2004. 4.http://www.imeem.com/avieronicas/music/SBApYM6c/the-veronicas-dont-say-goodbye-featuring-tania-doko/ 5.http://www.lunapark.com.au/files/joyinthepark.pdf. Media Release 6.http://www.theharbouragency.com/artist-profile/tania-doko 7.http://www.showbiz.com.au/PerformanceDetail.aspx?pid=NKJp%2BhKB72c%3D, December 31, 2007 8.http://www.themusic.com.au/imm_display.php?s=christie&id=222&q=tania%20doko, Article October 9, 2007

I thank you in advacne for all of your help you are a light in the dark for me.

Sincerely, --Ussee (talk) 00:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Complimentary article content
I've created two articles that I've not published yet which are related to each other. I plan to place links in each so they are not orphaned. One is a history of a museum (which has exhibits relating to the other article), and I'm concerned about it getting deleted because it's interpreted to be advertising. How can I avoid this?--Sandye minnesota (talk) 20:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

bum bright article copyright violation / plagiarism
(copy of note to User:Mfield..)

per discussion on Media copyright questions (conflict of interest vs..)

there was one or two paragraphs of that Bum Bright that were original, and not plagiarized... i hate to see it all lost just because the other 90% of the article was a copypaste. . . . is there any way to notify the author of the non-plagiarized part so he/she can re-add a stub maybe?

thank you

Decora (talk) 22:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

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2009 UEFA Champions League Final peer review
Hi there mate. I see you're on holiday at the moment, so there's no need to rush, but I wondered if I could ask you to give the language in 2009 UEFA Champions League Final a once-over. Any help would be much-appreciated. The peer review discussion can be found here. Thanks. – PeeJay 09:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

What I tried to post on Pazhassi Raja
THERE WAS NO KINGDOM BY THE NAME OF KOTTAYAM IN MALABAR DISTRICT OF NORTH KERALA.

THERE WAS NO KOTTAYAM ROYAL FAMILY IN HISTORY.

THE KOTTAYAM DISTRICT IN SOUTH KERALA WAS FORMED IN 1754 BY THE KING OF TRAVANCORE, MARTHANDA VARMA, BY UNITING THEKKUMKUR AND MUNJANAD, TO WHICH HE LATER ADDED DEVIKULAM.

The three regions that formed the region of Kerala (formed in 1956 along linguistic lines) during British Raj starting 1795:

Malabar District of Madras Presidency in North Kerala, which comprises the present districts: Kannur, Kozhikode(Calicut), Wayanad, Mallapuram, Palakkad (Palghat).

Northernmost Kasargode district was part of Karnataka until 1956.

Princely State of Cochin in Central Kerala comprising present Ernakulam and Thrissur districts.

Princely State of Travancore (Thiruvathamkur) in South Kerala, comprising present districts: Idukki, Kottayam, Pathanamthitta (part of Kottayam till 1982), Alapuzha (Allepey), Kollam (Quilon), Thiruvanathapuram (Trivandrum). Southernmost Tamil speaking Kanyakumari district of Tamil Nad, was part of Travancore until 1956.

Kottayam never existed as a separate kingdom at any time in history. It was formed as a revenue district by the king of Travancore, Marthanda Varma, when he expanded his kingdom northwards starting 1749, and created Kottayam in 1754 by joining Thekkumkur and Munjanad. Later he added Devikulam to Kottayam. During British Raj, Kottayam was part of upper Travancore revenue division with a Diwan peshkar who reported to British Resident. Lower Travancore revenue division had a separate Diwan Peshkar, who reported to the British Resident, both with the consent of the Travancore king.

The most powerful king of North Kerala, Malabar district region had been Zamorins of Calicut. The areas annexed by Tippu Sultan of Mysore, is what formed Malabar District during British Raj. Tippu Sultan had been ousted by the British with the help of Hindu rulers of Malabar region.

All the kingdoms that made up present Kerala had been independent and fought with their neighbours to expand their territories. The king of Travancore had had no alliance with the rulers of North Kerala, i.e. Malabar district. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieWahrheitBitte (talk • contribs) 12:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

The claim that a Kottayam Royal Family existed is propaganda
A certain Tinu Cherian and a ? Ranjit Menon claim that a Kottayam Royal Family existed. It is propaganda pure. What reference do they give except for a website they themselves created?

It is a historical fact that no such kingdom as Kottayam existed in North Kerala, erstwhile Malabar District during British Raj. Kottayam in erstwhile Travancore did not exist until 1754. It was created by Marthanda Varma by uniting Thekkumkur and Munjanad. Devikulam was added to it later.

How come until a film script writer came up with the idea a Pazhassi Raja of a so called Kottayam Royal Family in Kannur didn't exist? And that too for 200 years there was no information about such a kingdom in connection with a man called Pazhassi Raja?

AND WHO THE HECK IS TINA CHERIAN TO DECIDE WHO SHOULD POST ON WIKIPEDIA? WHAT IS BEING POSTED ABOUT PAZHASSI RAJA'S KOTTAYAM ROYAL FAMILY IS PURE PROPAGANDA TO PROMOTE THE FILM. DOES ONE CREATE A ROYAL FAMILY WITH INTIMIDATION AND THREATS IN CYBER SPACE? HOW VERY AMUSING! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DieWahrheitBitte (talk • contribs) 05:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Happy Birthday
Vatsan34 (talk) 09:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

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Hello,

thanks for the comments and advices. Actually I dont agree on the comment that the article is written as an advertisement only from one point of view. Its a programme co-operation of more than one organisation (CoE, EC) involving several very different cities (11) and civil society stakeholders. All those different groups have a voice in the article and therefore it shows a very bright range of opinions and spects of this programme. The ductus is neither positive nor negative it just summarises the core of the programme. What shall I change in your point of view? I already added various links to all those different stakeholders etc.

Regards! —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnasophiaHeintze (talk • contribs) 07:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

vandalism or democracy?
I am a new contributor to wiki, so I will make mistakes, but my first experience isn't all that great. I am concerned about the fine detail of the controversy incident on the Anton du Beke page. KarlBattery has consistently undermined all my efforts and seems incredibly dogmatic in his revisions. He is unwilling to engage in dialogue on talk page and I resent the qualifying statement in his latest edits (which is effectively accept his edit or he'll call mediation). Other contributing parties have written in between edits, but he doggedly sticks to his own. I looked for other contributions, but he has not made any under that name. The philosophy of my edit is written in the talk page. In truth, as with most things, neither of us are right, and the ideal edit is somewhere in between. I really liked Andy Farrels one (i am sure Karlbattery thinks it's me!) but he has stripped that to the bones too. Disillusioned! It's like cyberbullying..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Responsiballot (talk • contribs) 00:14, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

vandalism or democracy?
I am a new contributor to wiki, so I will make mistakes, but my first experience isn't all that great. I am concerned about the fine detail of the controversy incident on the Anton du Beke page. KarlBattery has consistently undermined all my efforts and seems incredibly dogmatic in his revisions. He is unwilling to engage in dialogue on talk page and I resent the qualifying statement in his latest edits (which is effectively accept his edit or he'll call mediation). Other contributing parties have written in between edits, but he doggedly sticks to his own. I looked for other contributions, but he has not made any under that name. The philosophy of my edit is written in the talk page. In truth, as with most things, neither of us are right, and the ideal edit is somewhere in between. I really liked Andy Farrels one (i am sure Karlbattery thinks it's me!) but he has stripped that to the bones too. Disillusioned! It's like cyberbullying.....Responsiballot (talk) 00:16, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Personal Attack
It was not my intent to make a personal attack and I am not saying lawyers are bad, my point is that marking technical or software related articles for deletion should be done by someone who can assess technical merit. I would not dream of marking a law article for deletion as it is outside of my expertise (although not entirely as I did an under-grad minor in law). Ardalby (talk) 08:49, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

the International Xray Observatory page
Hi ukexpat Not very long ago, I believe in September I created an updated International Xray Observatory page in the main Wikipage domain. That time you decided (for still an unknown reason for me) that I might have a conflict of interest because of my position in the IXO team and suggested that i first put this topic in my private page. So I did, here it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Olga_Vovk/IXO

Could you please to take a look on it and if you satisfied, let me know that I can move the page to the main Wikipedia. Thank you! --OV 15:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC) Olga Vovk

I followed your advice
Hi there,

I took your criticism of my biography serious re conflict of interest and neutral point of view, and brought in two Wikipedians to advise me about such things. Over the last month, with their help, I have worked hard to provide balance (including painful criticisms of my congressional and political life) in the article and have scrupulously cited sources.

As busy as you are, you must have lots to do as you return from vacation. But I would welcome it if your would take a fresh look about my page and give me your comments, suggestions, and any further criticisms.

All best, Les AuCoin 71.217.161.88 (talk) 00:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCKK
Thank you for your help.

KCKKRadio (talk) 16:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCKK
At the request of another administrator/editor I have changed my userID so there is no conflict of interest in changes that I have made to this page. It seems the 'culprit' tried to change this page yet again today. Your help in curbing this activity is greatly appreciated.

Keepsonticking (talk) 20:53, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

New user
Thank you very much for your assistance,

Etccerc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Etccerc (talk • contribs) 15:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Contacting user
Hello and thanks for your help.. I'm sure this an easy problem. I'm wondering how to contact the contributor of a photograph, the persons id is: Author 	Original uploader was 8mobili at de.wikipedia. and the photo is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Steiger_automobile_16.jpg

I'm sure there is an easy solution to contacting this person, and I have searched the help pages to no avail.

Thank you

A —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy schw (talk • contribs) 21:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

thats ok... I speak German
thats ok... I speak German. I just need to find out how to contact this person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy schw (talk • contribs) 16:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Notability and Articles for Deletion
Actually I do not think that anyone without any subject specific knowledge should nominate an article for deletion on notability otherwise I could go and nominate "Learned Hand" for deletion as I do not think they are notable. Another article in point is William Perry, where the important educationalist was nearly deleted while the one-season wonder NFL player was not. There are many subject areas which are significant but not part of general culture, educational theory is one but this does not mean they are not notable within their communities. For instance there are biographies of a large number of porn stars but they are only notable only to their audience. Ardalby (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC).

IXO page
Hi did you have a chance to take a look on my IXO page? If you did, please let me know what do you think about it. Thank you! --OV 14:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Ukexpat.
I have visited and edited Wikipedia pages for some time, but as far as the formatting of Wikipedia's site, I am unfamiliar with! Thank you for my talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msfire (talk • contribs)

(whoops, forgot to put a subject)
Haha yeah, no worries! I forgot that I've had the account for a year until I saw my older contribs. I don't log in often or edit pages, so I have no idea how to use any of the templates or where to find many of the help or policy pages. I think I may even have older accounts somewhere, but I don't remember the usernames or passwords. I have a terrible time of remembering things at times. Msfire (talk • contribs)
 * Oh, I see those policy and help pages on my talk page now too. Thanks for those as well! Msfire (talk • contribs)

Please Clarify
Can you please repost: Foreclosure Crisis Shatters the American Dream for Hispanics

Don't understand the problem - what do I need to do?

>>This article was published with the support of the International Center for Journalists (ICFJ). Written by Dyana Pari Nafissi and posted on Wiki for open use. Please contact dyanapari@mac.com for more information.

Dyana Pari Nafissi Global Capital Consultant dyanapari@mac.com

Non Notable Individual?
James H Brahney

I understand your job. But people do research the history of experimental test pilots. They also do research those who have acheived our nation's highest military honors. There are also those who research Vietnam history.

Lt Col Brahney received many honors that were not bestowed upon him by his family and friends, but by the military and the President of the United States. So I do not see this as a memorial.

I did edit it to exclude anything that seemed like a memorial. I am hoping this is more suitable.

He also served as editor of a major aerospace magazine, Aerospace Engineering. If that is not considered notable, I can edit it out.

But his military history is notable. I do not consider this man as a non notable person in history.

Maybe he is no Michael Jackson, I get that. But if you read it, you will see that he did have a place in aviation history. He is mentioned in various books about experimental flight but unfortunately I do not have all that information and I knew I was not allowed to mention that if I cannot footnote them.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

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Samar Chatterjee
Please help fix the "Reference" section on this page which I have revised, because of some questions asked by another editor. Please fix the section, since I am not able to incorporate the corrections properly. Thanks.

Sushila69 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sushila69 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

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Nathaniel Ayers is/was a double bassist, too
Ayers was at Juilliard as a double bassist. This is mentioned only briefly in The Soloist, at least so far as I've read it (I just started it a couple of days ago).

Bear in mind that Ayers was studying with Homer Mensch at Juilliard. Mensch was a double bassist.

He was playing the violin and later the cello on the streets of L.A. due to the impracticality of lugging around a double bass.

I don't know if he ever got back to the double bass - I am reading as fast as I can to find out (I am a double bassist myself).

Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GriffithLea (talk • contribs) 20:13, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Martin Clark
Thanks so much for the help with my links and clearing up the ambiguity with the several "Martin Clark" entries. I note that there is a problem with my article, in that it has a failing in terms of NPOV (guidelines which I read and have now reread) and is tagged as "reading like an advertisement." I'm sorry to be a bother again but would be grateful for any advice as to how I should correct this. I footnoted every source and reference, and they are all accurate and completely factual. I did not have a reference for the Strout remarks, but they are on Clark's website, on Random House's site and on the back of his book. I have no interest in Mr. Clark other than that of a fan, and I'm certianly not trying to create an ad. There is no opinion, just a recitation of his books, the dates they were issued, the publisher and the awards and recognitions. I included the Times profile quote to show he is noteworthy. At any rate, sorry about this, and I'd be pleased to fix it...or, as a first timer here, would have no problem if you--or another editor--would be kind enough to take a shot at the editing. Many thanks. Eddland1 (talk) 21:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks for helping me with my post. Im not as good as a lot of these people at writing but my heart is in itScottbutari (talk) 16:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Stadium of Light
Hi, could you organise so that when you search for the above, it either gives an option for both the Lisbon and Sunderland stadium, or that any preference goes to the original Benfica ground.

I'm a new user, and think I may have done it wrong.

In any case, Stadium of Light, in world football, is primarily associated with the history of Benfica. And I felt it wrong to be diverted to Sunderland every time it's typed in —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjmooney9 (talk • contribs) 17:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Minor thing
I noticed this edit. Although it is by no means essential, the maintenance templates are usually on top of the infobox, preceded only by protection and disambiguation templates. Debresser (talk) 10:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oops. I got mixed up. That is precisely what you did. Sorry. :) Debresser (talk) 10:59, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks and some more help please
Hi! thanks for responding to my feedback about my Adam H. article, can you please suggest what else I could write on the article to have it not deleted? Someone else placed an article about him on Wikipedia that I found yesterday and wanted it deleted as it was totally wrong information. I thought I'd be helpful and put updated new information about him on here but it keeps getting deleted :( --AmberHopeEyre (talk) 17:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC) AmberHopeEyre

TC GIG
I believe you are correct, though not quite sure how to fix it as I have read promotion and advertisement and need specific suggestions. Please advise. Following editing, please help on posting of page as well. Thank you as I am still learning how to contribute. Markevanskirkpatrick (talk) 23:58, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is not necessary to use helpme when communicating with a particular editor; they will see your comments nonetheless without it.  Intelligent  sium  00:08, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll let ukexpat pick this question up.  Intelligent  sium  00:09, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, please only use helpmes when you have a question about editing - and then only on your talk page.   Fl ee tf la me   ·  whack! whack!  · 00:11, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Confusion
Shrappers (talk) 02:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You're supposed to put that template on your talk page. :-) If you do need an administrator's assistance, please place the template on your on talk page, accompanied with an explanation of what you need. Killiondude (talk) 02:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Confusion
I have tried to ask this question before but there has been no response.

One of your pages on John Shrapnel (note the one ell) is causing confusion. John Shrapnel is a well know UK actor and has a wiki page. There is also a John Shrapnell (note the two ells) who is a well know television and film actor in New Zealand.

The two are not related

The UK page is causing considerable confusion here, especially as contributions often mispell the surname with two ells.

Can we establish a page for the New Zealand John Shrapnell? Shrappers (talk) 02:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

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International X-ray Observatory
Hi Ukexpat, Thank you! I appreciate your advises and your effort. And it feels so good having the IXO page on Wikipedia. thank you! --OV 18:37, 10 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Olga Vovk (talk • contribs)

Used as a reference
You were used as a reference in this conversation. &mdash;Aladdin Sane (talk) 07:49, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Re: Welcome & Feedback
Thank you for your welcome and your feedback on the article. I will edit with a more neutral point of view. Feel free to check back and give me additional feedback on the article. Any tips that you can give would be appreciated as this is my first article.

Thank you for your help thus far. -DHMKTG DHMKTG (talk) 15:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for the gentle corrective about leaving meassages everywhere.--Lumenlitt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

How do i go about posting someone's biography on wiki pls?
Hello, I am new to wikipedia. I have been trying to post a biography for someone notable. I have read through the criteria but i am afraid i don't know how to go about posting it in the right format and place. I would be grateful if you would kindly put me through a less tedious route.I also need to put the person's photograph but after writing the piece it doesn't appear like the usual way biographies appear on wiki? any idea? Thanks Kamaal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kamal-din (talk • contribs) 20:14, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The International Xray Observatory page
HI Ukexpat, That would be very nice. I mean, if you nominate the IXO page for 'Did you know'. You know, there is still a lot of confusion because of merging both Con-X and XEUS missions into a single mission - IXO, Unfortunately, many people are still not aware of what happened and why. That was actually the main reason why we wrote this IXO article for Wikipedia, so we wanted to inform and educate the astrophysics community. Thank you very much! --OV 20:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Photo Copyright
A photo i posted had been labeled for deletion ... by Ukexpat

Please help, not sure how to proceed.

The picture is from my mother’s site (www.shazina.com) and she allowed it to be posted on Wiki, just as long as the artists name is mentioned.

So what kind of license should I have chosen? Or what kind of prove can I provide?

Thank you

Nino 13:20, 12 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by NKuprava (talk • contribs)

Thank you for the quick reply. Guess there is no point in arguing what’s appropriate … did leave the changes you’ve made on the page …

Will get the e-mail sent about the picture in next few days. Nino 16:00, 12 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by NKuprava (talk • contribs)

Thank you UKexpat
I appreciate your message and taking a look at my contribution. Best, AkiaCherstine (talk) 20:02, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

John D Hancock
I am not trying to stir anything up... silly me I thought I could just go in and add the rest of his works but I understand everything has to be listed and verified... Otherwise it wouldn't be an encyclopedia! I have previously worked with this director and when I heard he was working on a musical I decided to look him up. I was stunned to see his limited article. The Jaws incident is highly debated. There is even a new book out disputing the previous notion that he was fired due to his lack of capabilities.

That being said... even if Wiki decides to keep the opinionated piece... what about everything else he has accomplished? His Obie Award? His television work? His Harvard education? He directed off broadway (Brecht no less!) at age 22!!! His American film grant? The fact that Ebert said Bang the drum slowly was possibly the finest baseball movie ever made? The fact that De Niro won a new york film crtics circle award for his portrayal? Hancock has served on the Board of Trustees of the American Film Institute, received the Brandeis Citation in Film, the Christopher medal, First Prize at Karlovy Vary. Concertmaster of the Chicago Youth Orchestra, 1962 - 1963: Served as artistic director of the New Repertory Theater in NYC, Was artistic director of San Francisco Actors Workshop, Served as artistic director at the Pittsburgh Playhouse...

These are HUGE accomplishments! I am shocked to see that the focus of his biography would be a politically driven controversial incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faithmarie3 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Page Moved
Hi. This is JardenBooks. I recently submitted an article on new Atlantic Rec. artist Young Legend. It was 1st proposed for deletion, then moved back to a user page. Can u take a look at it and give me any feedback as to what was wrong with it. I wrote it totally unbiased(I don't even like rap music) and I gave what I believe to be adequate sources. Your help would be totally appreciated. Young Legend

Thanks...JardenBooks (talk) 01:34, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Copyright for a photo
Hello UKexpat, I've come back to you (though it does seem I've been bothering quite a few people). I have prepared a text for the photographer to sign. If it acomplishes the task I will forward it, have it signed and they will send it to permissions. So that I not waste your time, the purpose is to :

give permission for the photo of James_Thackara to be copied, downloaded or used by anyone with no attribution to the photographer but to have the name of the subject and the date 2009 attached to the photo. No fee will be required for reproduction. So essentially the photo is being given to wikipedia.

Is this the text the photgrapher shoud use, sent to you and should I then tag the photo with PD-release? Can a scan of this document with signature suffice for the Wikipedia requirements?

I hereby affirm that I hold the copyright for File:James thackara.jpg on the English Wikipedia, and hereby release it, under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported LicensePD-release allowing for unlimited re-use by any person for any purpose, including derivative works, subject only to the requirement that it be accompanied with the text James Thackara 2009 and the requirement that any derivative works be released under a similar license."

I agree to publish that work under the free license PD-release. Name and details of copyright holder G Poulden 69 Bramfield Road London SW116PZ England Signature Date of signing

The image will be tagged with PD-release. The above will be signed, scanned and sent to: permissions-en@wikimedia.org an e-mail with the following content:

Thanks for your help. I beleive I have made it through the instructions but there is always a chance for error. lumenlittLumenlitt (talk) 14:33, 13 November 2009 (UTC).

Biography question
Ukexpat --

On author David Sherman's page I am mentioned as writing the screenplay for his Starfist series. And my name has a link but no page. How do I resolve this?

--Eric Bean (talk) 15:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)Eric Bean

Thanks, I will head over right now!

--Eric Bean (talk) 16:58, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Robert Wadlow
Thanks,. I thought it seemed wrong and meant to go back and tweak it, and then I wandered off and forgot! Cheers, Mae din \talk 17:34, 13 November 2009 (UTC)