User talk:Underbar dk/Archive08

Dynasty Warriors 6 barrage
God, it's not even out yet and it looks like every article's being hit on at least a daily basis. I'm thinking maybe I should remove all information pertaining to any single release altogether and have a single universal description for each character. That way we can filter out any info related to any one release and prevent any more speculation or bad images being uploaded every time each character gets an image overhaul. What do you think? Gamer Junkie 22:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea in theory, but the gap between DW5 and 6 is too big with the design overhauls and stuff. How will there be a universal description? Also, I think the biographical articles should only contain a brief description on DW while the details should go to the List of Dynasty Warriors characters. _dk 23:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like only the brief description and no characters page at all, since they only attract wave after wave of cruft and spec. I'm not sure the gap between games is anything more than superficial.  Appearances have changed in every game, and just because they've changed more in the next release doesn't make it a particularly notable fact. Gamer Junkie 23:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I just don't like having such a big section devoted to a series of video games on articles about historical people, so I think it'd be better to ship them off somewhere. Keep them all in one place and maintain it rather than have them plague every article in this project, I say. Dw6 isn't out yet, it might be too early to say anything universal about its characters. _dk 00:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll trim the sections right down, because I agree that they're probably too big... and getting bigger. If you want a stand alone characters article, it's gonna be your train wreck.  There's no way I'm monitoring an article virtually assured to be the cruft capital of Wikipedia. I just haven't got the time or the patience anymore. Gamer Junkie 00:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Their train wreck, you mean. But looking at the list at this stage, it isn't so bad. If we want to be more well-rounded with the popular culture stuff, the modern references section is going to get humongous and there is no way we can have a full paragraph on Dynasty Warriors alone. And DW is only a small part of the fandom (I cringe to use this word) in the countries that care about the Three Kingdoms. _dk 00:42, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Have any of these characters been confirmed as not being in DW6? I'm seeing a lot of edits by some guy stating that about half a dozen characters aren't in the game. Gamer Junkie 07:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's hard to confirm if something is absence, but that seems to be the case judging by the videos on the internet. The game is out, btw. _dk 08:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure whether or not it would be appropriate to allow something that is still quite debatable stand, though, regardless of how likely it is. Gamer Junkie 08:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Red Cliffs is now a Featured Article!
Hey, we passed FAC. A pat on the back for all your effort. Gamer Junkie (talk) 18:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hurrah! Went a lot smoother than I thought. Thank you, all of you. :) _dk (talk) 02:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

wade-Giles in the infobox...
..of Red Cliffs.. Which is now FA. :-) Would you do the honors? I'm supposed to be busy.. thanks! --Ling.Nut (talk) 01:10, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I...don't...know...Wade-Giles.....;_; _dk (talk) 02:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you busy?

 * ... you wanna ramrod the collaboration on Guan Yu? For one thing, I'm supposed to be busy. For another, I no longer have access to an English-language library... the best source to start with is this:
 * . ISBN 978-90-04-15605-0
 * Ling.Nut (talk) 00:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I borrowed the book from my library (and is constantly renewing it), so I'm a happy man. :D I gather that the Guan Yu article is near complete in terms of content, and only the citations need work. The religious aspect of him, though, aaaaaaaaaaaaaccck. _dk (talk) 00:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Just tread cautiously on the religious stuff. Keep it to the bare minimum of absolutely, ironclad, verifible facts. Don't wanna irritate anyone. :-) Ling.Nut (talk) 00:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no background knowledge in this regard, so it's difficult for me here... _dk (talk) 00:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

(undent) Drop me a line if you feel cramped on that section (or any other, but you can handle the 3K stuff pretty well). I left a note on HongQiGong‎'s page &amp; will leave one on gamer Junkie's as well... Ling.Nut (talk) 01:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

List of characters in Dynasty Warriors
I don't even know where to start...

How should I go about this? Remove everything on the list and replace it with the article info, rewrite what's already there or what? I'm asking you because I think you're the only person who pays any attention to the character article and would know if any part of it is worth sparing or not. I don't know about things like "notable battles". There's no specific universal set for each character in every game. I'm also not sure about the weapons, since some of them have changed since the series' first outing. Gamer Junkie 05:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably a merge of what's already there and what's on the biographical articles now, but this will have to be done on a case by case basis. The notable battles are really subjective (except Dian Wei with the Battle of Wan Castle, Guan Yu with Guan Yu's Escape, etc), so unless there is a clearly defined criteria, the notable battles part is going to be hard to control. I think the most significant change in weaponry is from 5 to 6, so there's nothing wrong with listing both...I always don't see the point of including ultimate weapons though, but that's just me. I think I'll go in there first and remove some of the inadequate things there, to make your job easier. _dk (talk) 07:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Appreciated. Let's not simply merge everything, the article will be ridiculously gigantic. I agree that the Battle of Wan Castle for Dian Wei, Battle of Tong Gate for Ma Chao, etc, should probably remain. I've unfortunately been involved in an AfD squabble with a persistently obnoxious member who is currently trying to delete pretty much every Resident Evil article on Wikipedia. Once I'm done, I'll be back on this, but I can't let this guy get his nominations through since these guys always have a dozen more of their deletionist buddies on hand to pass an AfD before anybody else even notices. The things we have to do... Gamer Junkie  07:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

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Template:In-universe/Three Kingdoms
Hi, I see you've been disambiguating the fiction template into different In-universe templates, and did so for the Three Kingdoms articles as well. However, I think you are confused. Originally, the fiction template on those articles does not mean that they are portraying fiction in an in-universe style, but actually that the article literally "fails to distinguish between fact or fiction", or, in clearer terms: the article confuses the actual historical events of the Three Kingdoms (190-280) with those of the novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I hope you can make the necessary changes to the template, thanks. _dk (talk) 05:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I can see the problem here, and I agree that could do with some rewording. Hmm... Okay, I worked on it, how's that? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * This is much better, thank you :) _dk (talk) 05:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There seem to be a lot of those articles... I've only gotten through D, and the category is already somewhat large. How many of them are really notable? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

An image for Sangokushi Koumeiden?
I've been looking for a simple cover image to add to this article, but I've only been able to find two, and both have little watermark stamps from the websites that are hosting them. Do you know where we can find a clean image? I'd like to see at least one in there somewhere. Gamer Junkie 01:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * http://newodin.gamer.com.tw/6/2706.html Playstation version
 * http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/products/products/ee/Rlkoumei.htm Gameboy Advance version _dk (talk) 06:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I knew you were the person to ask. I'll use the PlayStation image. Gamer Junkie  10:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

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Template
Hey _dk. I just got the Template:People of the Three Kingdoms un-protected so we can do work on it again. If you don't mind i added back Ji Ling and King Wutugu because I feel there respected armies are lacking in the template, and i also removed some people from wei, because there list was far too long. But now we have to figure how we are going to break this down. Are we going with the seperate template idea? --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 00:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea, when I'm free I might go make the prototypes for the split templates. (Though...their armies aren't very important, so I intended to leave them out of the template...) _dk (talk) 01:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

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List of Touhou Project characters
These images will get sorted out. The licensing appears to be a legitimate "conditional use". If so, the conditions are specific to these images, and it may be appropriate to create a template/category just for them. Gimmetrow 04:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid they wouldn't be "sorted out" properly since they are already deleted (with no warning or notification, and the deleting admin didn't respond to me yet). Can't put them in a category if they don't exist any more. Thank you for your willingness to help. _dk (talk) 06:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gimmetrow, if it's all right with you, would you be willing to restore the images? _dk (talk) 06:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * See Administrators%27_noticeboard. I'd like to hear what others say, first. The images aren't going to disappear, and undeleting them won't take long. Gimmetrow 06:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, you've been a great help. _dk (talk) 07:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This seems to be dragging on. Why don't you try emailing OTRS with your info and translation, and hopefully they'll resolve this or give you some feedback. You may hear back that there's some deficiency (in Wiki terms) in the way the permission is worded on the page, and if so, you may be out of luck. I think it's unreasonable to expect the game creators to bother with this. Gimmetrow 09:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, and that is one of the reasons I am not willing to resort to OTRS. Thank you for all your help so far, but I think I'll just give up, since although ZUN gave his permission for screenshots on "strategy guides and such", it is unlikely that he would agree to those images to be in "games", like Azatoth asked (Although ZUN explicitly allowed derivative works of his games for any purpose). The images, despite the time I spent uploading them, do not worth all this trouble for you and me....Now the only thing that's bugging me in this episode is the way the deletion was carried out.... _dk (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The latter is an issue. As for the game suggestion, Aza hasn't decided to reply yet. If you can find ZUN's derivative work statement on the games, that should be more than enough to resolve this. Gimmetrow 07:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Would you kindly give it a try with official wiki channels? Gimmetrow 04:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * What official wiki channels? _dk (talk) 04:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OTRS. At this point why not try? Gimmetrow 05:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Not worth the effort, I think. Furthermore, reading and translating Japanese is one thing, writing in Japanese (so I can tell ZUN to mail to OTRS) is another. _dk (talk) 05:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No, YOU mail OTRS with your translations. What do you have to lose, but the few minutes it would take to put them together with an explanation of the situation? Gimmetrow 06:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't quite get what's going on, you're saying that I should mail OTRS, while BetaCommand said they need a mail from the copyright holder...? Besides, what good would it do if I mail OTRS when the issue couldn't get resolved in WP:AN? _dk (talk) 06:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Nobody but me, beta and aza responded on WP:AN. Using OTRS will at least get someone else to reply. The reply could "no, we need ZUN", or it could be "OK, that's good enough". We do allow images with certain types of conditions. Gimmetrow 06:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * ugh, I read the whole OTRS page 3 times and I still have no idea who/where should I email.... _dk (talk) 07:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right that's confusing. I think any email to the WMF is handled by the OTRS system, so try an address from this page. Gimmetrow 07:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, sent. _dk (talk) 07:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) The statement is the same page that gave permission for the images. A brief translation with all the relevant points:

Q: I want to make derivative work based on the Touhou series's characters and settings. A: The copyright of the Touhou series, including its characters, content, quotes, and music belong to my circle. That said, this series is supported by many doujin creators. (Thank you) For the usual activities in doujin (uploading material on a homepage, selling them in a convention or in a shop at your own expense), or doujin material (derivative comics, stories, games, CGs, goods, cosplay), you do not need to notify me or request my permission. The copyright of derivative works belong to the creators of said derivatives. If there is trouble regarding the derivatives of my work, I cannot take responsibility. To avoid trouble, please satisfy the following conditions. 1. Using game data other than screenshots is forbidden. 2. If you need data other than screenshots, please make them yourself. 3. Content that includes inflammatory material towards us or other copyright owners is forbidden. 4. If possible, please attribute us. (recommended) 5. If possible, please include our contact information in the colophon. (recommended) 6. Please do not mistake the names of the games or the characters. 7. Do not reproduce or reprint ending material, including the text. 8. For the commercial production of derivative material, or the mass circulation of derivative material outside of doujin shops, you must seek my permission. To publish on commercial magazines and books, you must notify me. (You do not need to do so for magazines that describe doujin and derivatives.) 9. If you did not satisfy the above conditions but received my permission, please make clear that you have received my permission. Otherwise, decisions like for sale or for free, how many to print, the price to sell them at, adult only or not, original settings or not, is entirely free for you to choose. However, if I see material that I decide to not fulfil the above conditions, I have the right to stop its distribution.

Well? What do you think? _dk (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how to understand that in wiki-speak, because it seems to distinguish between "commercial" and "for sale". Although this is pretty broad permission you're going to have to ping someone else for a resolution. Unfortunately, the editor I trust for licensing questions is on wikibreak. Gimmetrow 04:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I've got a response:

[Ticket#2008011510005012] Because that license prohibits the use of the material for commercial reuse,it is not a sufficient license for free use on Wikipedia. Thus, these imagesmust continue to be used under "fair use". I do not have any higher standingthan any other Wikipedian, so I cannot really advise you about the dispute atthe policy level. Yours sincerely, Eric Skoglund

I wouldn't say that license prohibits commercial use....but whatever, that's that. _dk (talk) 06:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's unfortunate. But as I suspected, allowing derivate works "for sale" in doujin shops, but "commercially" outside those shops only with permission, is not quite what WP is looking for. Sorry this didn't work out. Gimmetrow 22:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that _dk didn't post a translation of the more pertinent bit of that webpage. (The Ｑ．攻略ページなどでスナップショットを使用したいのですが section at the very end.)

In English:

Q. I want to use snapshots on my webpage (for a walkthrough, etc.) Of course I don't mind. You don't even have to notify me beforehand. As long as you follow the rules below, I won't mind. 1. Don't post endings. 2. Rescaling is okay, but please preserve the images' aspect ratio. 3. Don't make image content edits that are indistinguishable from the original images. This includes things like changing the spell card names, recoloring the images, or add extra bullets that weren't originally there. * However, this is okay if it's done as a joke and it's clearly stated that it's a joke. 4. Things like cropping the images or overlaying them with text are no problem. If you have any doubts, just ask me and I'll respond.

So, the use of cropped but otherwise snapshots from the games on explanatory webpages is clearly permitted provided it's not pictures from the game ending. I'm not sure if this changes anything, but it's worth noting. (Solamarle from TouhouWiki, 25 Feb 2008 1600Z) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.196.142 (talk) 15:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I had this posted on Talk:List of Touhou Project characters, but the people here didn't think it was adequate. Thanks anyways, Solamarle :) _dk (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming you sent that as part of the otrs email, right? Gimmetrow 05:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did. _dk (talk) 05:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

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Jingkang Incident Edit
I stand corrected. Thank you. TheAsianGURU (talk) 08:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. _dk (talk) 08:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I just updated the article with Infobox Military Conflict per your suggestion. Please take a look to see if you can improve. Thank you. TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've made some minor edits to it _dk (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
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He Jin
I'm not trying to get in an argument over this, I'm just wondering, why do you consider him a warlord? He led the army and he served the emperor, wouldn't he be a "general"? that is pretty much the definition of general. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 00:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * His authority was above that of the emperor's during Liu Bian's reign, it's like the case with Dong Zhuo and Cao Cao where they are acting in the name of the emperor to serve their own purpose. Of course, this could be argued and I would have no problem switching him to general. _dk (talk) 02:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

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Hey, dk
Noticed you've been holding the fort alone... again :) Thought I'd drop by and say hello. Surely your sanity has reached its limits by now? Gamer Junkie  T /  C 09:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been taking it easy here, so things are still a-okay :) But real life is driving me nuts, so it may be a good idea to let go of wiki-ing for a while, lol. _dk (talk) 10:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha, yeah that'd help. Good to see you're not a raving madman yet. By the way, I'm gonna try referencing some more of the DW article soon (slowly but surely, eh?) and I was wondering what we should do with Xing Cai's article. Delete it entirely or what? Gamer Junkie  T /  C 13:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would redirect it to the dw character list. _dk (talk) 13:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I thought. Just wondering about consensus and all that, but it'll be a fairly redundant page once everything is transferred so it probably just be a technicality. Gamer Junkie  T /  C 02:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The February 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fifteen candidates. Please vote here by February 28! --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 11:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)
The February 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

DW images
Hey, dk. Sorry I haven't been round much. Currently focusing on getting one of my old articles GA passed. Been monitoring the Three Kingdoms articles, though, and saw that User:Exiled Ambition is intent on returning the DW images that were removed. I've attempted to convince him otherwise, and after that didn't work, tried to convince him to use the free image character renders instead, but he doesn't want to know about it. Leave them or delete them? Gamer Junkie T /  C 01:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm lazy, so I'll leave it to the course of time. I don't necessary agree with his philosophy though. _dk (talk) 11:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha! I'm sure the course of time will go something along the lines of new DW character biographies to compliment the images, but okay. And yeah, his reasoning is crud, that's why I'm here. I'm not entirely against using non-free images, they're better than nothing at all, but since Koei released the free character renders to promote DW6, we should certainly be using them, if anything. As far as I'm concerned, there's not enough about DW left in the articles to warrant the use of non-free media. But it's not like I'm gonna take it up with some committee or something, so I guess the alternative is to let them go. Gamer Junkie  T /  C 14:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Sources...in Japanese (Caramelldansen)
Several media outlets in Japan that focuses on internet/music news have covered Caramelldansen. I'll post them here so people can use them to add to the article: Hope this helps. _dk (talk) 12:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.j-cast.com/2008/03/08017442.html
 * http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/0802/25/news030.html
 * http://www.barks.jp/news/?id=1000038247
 * Really good. They will go really well in the history section. The articles do mention about the dance, and the compilation album thats going to be released in April, but we are still looking for sources about the animation, if you could help on finding a japanese article about Popotan and Caramelldansen relation it will be most appreciated. Thanks fot your contribution.--Ruakuu (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)