User talk:UrbanTerrorist/Archive 18

Username
Would you consider changing your username to something else? Some users may find your name offensive, and for a more positive editing experience on Wikipedia, it may be in your interests to change it. Thanks for your consideration and understanding. --HappyCamper 15:04, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've been using this name for over 20 years - I'm not going to let those idiots who perpetrated 9/11 stop me from using it, any more than I'm going to let them stop me from flying. If someone finds the name offensive, that's their issue, not mine.


 * Well you see, these names on Wikipedia are more associated with malicious vandals than with well meaning contributors. Typically, vandals do not respond to the question when asked, after which point, an indefinite block will very likely be imposed. Now that's out of the way... --HappyCamper

Interests and WikiProjects
Well I'm not going to claim I'm perfect - if I did my wife would tell you otherwise . Actually we were going to start a band with that name at one point, we thought it was perfect as musically we were closer to Atilla the Hun than the Beatles, however the world was saved some spectacularly awfull music when we decided that we just didn't have to time to do it. I should probably mention that my main interests are engine emission controls (You can rate me as expert in this area - I work in the industry) and books. UrbanTerrorist


 * Hehe...nice story, that put a smile on my face. Anyway, I'm glad you're still around - enjoy the Wikipedia! :-) --HappyCamper 20:09, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm...I haven't encountered an engine emission controls expert on Wikipedia yet...There's a WikiProject Science and a WikiProject Chemistry you might want to check out. Also, there's Portal:Chemistry which you might find useful. If I come across something else more relevant, I'll let you know. Oh, one last thing...3 tildes gives you just your username, 5 tildes gives you just the time. 4 tildes, well, gives you your username and time, like this: --HappyCamper 22:02, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll check it out then when I have the time. You may notice that I drop in, make 2 or 3 edits, and then disappear for a couple of months... This is usual - I tend to do a lot of travelling for work, and may or may not have net access. I should probably mention that while I qualify as an expert - I don't hold a degree - I've been trained by a couple of guys who do hold degrees, but I never made it past high school! Oh, and I'm having some fun trying to learn how to use the software - could you take a look at the page I put in for Phoebe Atwood Taylor and give me some feedback? UrbanTerrorist 22:15, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Wow! That was a lot of material you added! There are some terms you can "wikify" there - add two open and close square brackets around "special" words of interest in the article - Like this . Dates, important names, places, and written works are always good candidates for doing this. Also, if you add to the bottom of the article, our stub sorting department will reclassify your article so that more people familiar with the subject area can find it. It's a great start - generally speaking, I usually worry about adding content to an article first. Afterwards, there's always a kind-hearted Wikipedian that comes by and wikifies everything. --HappyCamper 18:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, well I have 10 of her books, and am haunting used book stores for the rest. Some of the information came from the book company website, cross referenced against the info in the covers of the books I have, and a couple of fan sites. I did the edits - could you check them and see if I got it right? As I said I am trying to learn the software, and I'm one of those people who don't do well with manuals - my wife programs the VCR! --UrbanTerrorist 04:13, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks fine the way it is, but I personally think the linking is a bit overboard - after all, I don't think all the books are famous enough to be encyclopedic. Don't worry too much about correct syntax though - this is a Wiki after all, and at any given moment another editor might change the article and improve on your ideas :-) - If you do run into syntax problems, like "how do I make a table?", "how do I make a list?", check out the help desk at WP:HD. --HappyCamper 00:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Filkers
You conflated my comment (created a category page for filkers) with someone else's unsigned comment (about removing names).Shsilver 12:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed by an automated bot. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please contact the bot owner  // Tawkerbot2 23:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm, best to just put the merge in progress as an addition and not remove the content on the pages, its kind of tricky for bots to detect otherwise -- Tawker 23:21, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

HNLMS Tromp (1877)
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Proposed deletion of FilKONtario


The article FilKONtario has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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Nomination of FilKONtario for deletion
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The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011
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The Bugle: Issue LX, February 2011
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The Bugle: Issue LXI, March 2011
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The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011
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Zack Heart AfD
Since you never created the nomination page for the AfD, I went ahead and removed the transclusion from the list of AfDs. Please follow the steps at WP:AFDHOWTO to properly list the page for deletion. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, MrKIA11 (talk) 12:00, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Wasn't really what I wanted to do anyway, when I looked at it. However someone else put it on the list today. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 13:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Outback Zack's Australian Animal fire Victims Appeal
FYI. I've nominated the article for deletion. The relevant discussion can be found here. Bgwhite (talk) 17:53, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Lawyers In Hell
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Lawyers In Hell, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.kerlak.com/lawyerhell.html.

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 * CorenSearchBot has been told to go away :) UrbanTerrorist (talk) 15:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Your pup
I've had a couple of beagle pups do the same thing; I can and do sympathize with you. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Under all those circumstances, I'd be cranky as hell too. My sympathies on all fronts, particularly for the puppy, and we'll understand if you're not quite yourself for a while.  Acroterion   (talk)   14:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The house is not the same without him. His companion is wandering around confused, she doesn't understand what happened. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's been three weeks since our oldest bloodhound died, suddenly but not unexpectedly. The house is much quieter (too much), and the remaining dogs are a little lost without their leader to keep them in line. They occasionally go looking around for their big sister. The general lack of road sense seems to apply to all hounds big and small, and I've lost track of how many times ours have either tried to walk out into traffic, or worse, to drag me out into traffic because there's something interesting on the other side of the road.  Acroterion   (talk)   12:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * For whatever it's worth, please accept my sympathies too. Sometimes we all forget there's a life for each and every one of us outside these stark pages.  All the best.  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:09, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My thanks to all. Sam is greatly missed by the whole family. None of us can talk about him without tearing up. Rose, his pack mate, has had a rough time of it. She slipped into a depression. It was decided she needed company. Rose is a two year old Beagle mix, we think the other part is Red Tick, but aren't sure, she was a rescue from a kill shelter. Her new companion is Rupert, who is also a rescue from a kill shelter. Rupert is a six year old Saint Bernard, who is woefully malnourished at only 117 pounds. We are trying to fatten him up. Since we don't have a scale big enough to handle him (or him and a human, assuming any of the humans is capable of holding him off the ground) we aren't sure if he is gaining weight yet. We are certain that he's quite happy though. He was absolutely delighted to be loaded into our van to leave the pound, and he has been extremely well behaved. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 03:41, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Good luck to all, it sounds like you have one hell of a pack! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad Rupert's got a good home. It might cost a little less to heat the house this winter with all that dog mass.  Acroterion   (talk)   03:18, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Rupert is a delight to have around. He's a very happy dog. And very well behaved. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 22:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Assuming Good Faith
Never, ever add fact tags to the comments made by other editors in an AfD discussion, as you did here. - Dravecky (talk) 23:36, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In that case how would I ask you to back up a statement with facts? UrbanTerrorist (talk) 01:30, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Lawyers in Hell
I'll have to sit down and read this over. I'll have time Monday afternoon. AfDs are watched over by certain admins, so if someone gets out of control it is usually quickly squashed. There is no place to take this for dispute resolution because this is, well, the place. AfDs can get downright ugly. I've submitted around 100 AfDs and have seen it all. Sock puppetry, people who don't stop refuting every claim made by people, and downright cranky people. I've seen Orange Mike and ukexpat around before in AfDs. Let's just they have their opinion and are very, very vocal about. Orange Mike reviews new articles and new users for problems. So, he came across Lawyers in Hell as new article. He probably saw a synopsis of a story by David L. Burkhead and the username of the creating editor is Dburkhead and it piqued his interest. I don't recall seeing Dravecky before from this discussion, but what from I've read, he should take a break from this AfD for a few days. One thing I've learned is to never modify anything another editor has said in an AfD. I corrected a spelling mistake and got called some "nice" words. I changed the "delete" to bold on another one and got told to stop putting my personal opinion into other people's comments... even though everyone else does bold. Bgwhite (talk) 06:43, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually he had squashed the first version of the article because of a copyright issue. So we brought it back with the copyright issue fixed, and I asked him for advice on it, and he hit it with an AFD without saying a thing. Which is rather annoying. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 12:52, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Filk music
Category diffusion rules: if an article is in Category:Science fiction fandom, then it doesn't belong in Category:Fandom or Category:Science fiction at the same time, because the former category is already a subcategory of the latter two. For the same reason, if it's already in Category:Literary genres, then it doesn't belong in Category:Genres or Category:Literature (and it belongs in Category:Music genres, not the top-level Category:Music — and even if it did belong directly in Category:Music, it's not the head article for that category and so its correct sortkey would not be a space; the only category where it should have a special character piped in as a sortkey to override the defaultsort tag is Category:Filk music itself.)

Further, we file things only in categories that offer a precise description of what the topic is, not by related keywords; Category:Songs is for things which are songs, not for broad musical genres on the basis that they include songs.

And on and so forth — it belongs in the narrowest appropriate categories of any given scheme, not in every single category that it could possibly be deemed to have any relationship to whatsoever without regard to those categories' schematic relationships with each other. Bearcat (talk) 03:45, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, so thanks for the link. I'm still learning by doing. All too often the rules and procedures are hard to find, and it's easiest just to do something, and see what happens. I need to go back over the list, as I think that there's a couple of places where you may be wrong, but on most of them you are right. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 17:05, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Spamlinks
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added to the page Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lawyers in Hell do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used as a platform for advertising or promotion, and doing so is contrary to the goals of this project. Because Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Everybody should note that Orange Mike has been less than happy with me. It seems that every since I've had an argument with him every single one of my edits has been reversed. Curious that, when over the last six years, my edits have almost never been reversed. And curiously he's suggesting discussing things on the talk page of an "Article for Deletion", which curiously doesn't have a talk page. I can see that the silliness continues. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 20:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ? All I'm saying is, don't litter a discussion page with external links, per WP:EL; especially external links to blogs and the like. I'm sorry if you somehow have gotten the idea I am persecuting you. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  20:31, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The links were all on-topic, and all to the point. They illustrated the problems with the arguments being made by those involved in the AfD who aren't involved in the publishing industry as professionals, and therefore unable to comment from a position of knowledge. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 21:00, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course this doesn't cover the what you did with Wombat's entry, which I'm not going to call you on publicly. Wombat has been a friend of mine for close to 30 years. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 00:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What on earth are you talking about? Me and finder are fine. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  13:35, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Notability. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 02:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ? Are you saying the Wombat is not notable? He's a classic BNF. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  13:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And only notable in fandom. He doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability requirements. As I said he's a hell of a nice guy. I've known him longer than I've known my wife. But being a BNF doesn't make you notable. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 20:20, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 14:25, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI notice
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 18:56, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution
I have opened a dispute resolution page regarding Heroes in Hell and Gilgamesh in the Outback where your conduct has been mentioned. You can find the page here. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 06:59, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI notice
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 04:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Read this before making additional comments about Heroes in Hell
WP:WallofText. Your comments are arduously long and much of it is flagrantly off-topic (like promoting your book? And calling people idiots?  Are you serious?) and inappropriate for the discussion. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 06:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No idea why you've put a notice about some trivial edit war on my talkpage. Maybe you could check my alledged edit(s) to that article first to see if it was worth bothering me about in the first place. Thanks!  Lugnuts  (talk) 17:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 00:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

AN/I notice
I have opened up an AN/I notice regarding your conduct. You can find and participate in the discussion here. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 06:40, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for for making implied legal threats and threats to "publicize" the behavior of editors here, with the clear intent to disrupt Wikipedia processes.. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. To other admins: should UrbanTerrorist request an unblock, I recommend that admins look at the currently open thread on ANI: WP:ANI to understand the context. However, if there is consensus on ANI to unblock and I'm not around, feel to do so without consulting me. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Please note that if you wish to add any comments to the ANI discussion regarding your behavior, please post them here, and I or someone else will copy them for you. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:11, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Urban, what we really need to see from you is agreement to retract the statements and an agreement not to make similar statements in the future. Whether or not you intended them to be threatening really isn't the issue, the issue is that they are extremely easily read as threatening and will have a chilling effect on discussion.  No one cares if you write a book, but we do care if that book scares users out of disagreeing with you.  Retract the statements, don't make similar ones in the future, and we'll be good to go.  Otherwise, you're likely to remain blocked until your book is finished, the same way we treat legal proceedings.  Cheers.  lifebaka++ 16:34, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to ask Errant, lifebaka, and Qwyrxian a simple question. Exactly which statements do you consider to be at issues, and exactly why. Quote them here, and detail your reasoning. I've looked over what I've said, and I've looked over what was said to me, and really I do not see that much difference. In simple terms, if you are going to block me, you should be blocking Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 23:25, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The AN/I thread gives enough detail. The book one is the most concerning - you are very clearly and unambiguously using it as a chilling effect. Persistent mention of your book, that you are collecting evidence (Here for example) and warnings that everyone is going to appear in it. This is clear and unavoidable, trying to back out of it (and continuing to do so) is the main reason for me declining the unblock. I'm not going to detail every. single. comment and make a point about each, partly because that just opens it up to the classic "But this does not meet the definition of policy X sub-section b, paragraph one and therefore the block is invalid" sort of response (which never helps anyone). The AN/I thread gives a sufficient overview of the problem; name dropping, vague threats of various types, mentioning lawyers  - it all adds up to a strong chilling effect. You are being asked to correct this problem. --Errant (chat!) 23:45, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with ErrantX here--I blocked specifically based on the comments linked in the ANI thread. The most disturbing to me were the fact that you specifically went to OrangeMike's page to "notify" him about the book, the fact that in the middle of throwing blame towards everyone but you you name dropped how close you are to "big people", and the fact that you went to I, Jethrobot to "warn" him of possible legal consequences for following consensus.  Had any of these statements been made neutrally (like, if you had written on your talk page that you were writing a book about WP), then you'd have been fine.  But all of these were done specificially in the middle of a larger dispute, and you specifically notified people who were, in one way or another, opposing you in the dispute.  It is perfectly obvious to me that you chose to make such "notifications" with the intent of making others change their actions towards you  and the rest of the group involved in the Heroes in Hell series.  For me, the key "tripping point" was that, while I was considering how to respond to you, I was honestly worried that you might take actions that would effect me in the real world. As soon as I realized that, I realized you had to be blocked.  Under no circumstances can editors use threats or implied threats of off wiki responses to get their way on wiki.  Note that you are more than welcome to write a book, if you want.  You're even welcome to pursue legal action, or advise others to pursue legal action. You just can't use that as leverage while also editing.
 * Note, however, that "indefinitely" is not the same as "forever". If you are willing to retract your threats...heck, even if you're willing to just promise not to use off-wiki leverage here, then I will unblock you myself.  If you demonstrate that you understand why what you did is wrong, why it is fundamentally incompatible with editing on Wikipedia, then I'll unblock you.  Of course, you'll still be subject to all the rest of our rules (like the fact that, whether you like it or not, editing is done by consensus on Wikipedia. and the fact that you cannot use Wikipedia to promote any book you or people related to you are writing/have written).  So, it's up to you--do you want to be part of the WP community?  You clearly have some useful knowledge, particularly in the SF field, that you can share with the world via WP.  But your ability to do so will hinge upon your ability to follow our policies and guidelines, and, when there is disagreement about those rules, follow our processes for resolving those differences collegially and without threats (actual or implied). Qwyrxian (talk) 00:26, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, now we are getting some where. You said I: "name dropped how close you are to 'big people'" but if you read exactly what I said semantically, I said the opposite, that I wasn't important, and that I wasn't close to this people, other than in a technical manner. If you use the same style of evaluation on our relationship, I can be considered to be close to you in the same manner, which is to say that I communicate with you on occasion, but that there is no emotional connection. The point that I was making on those sentences was that this account is not a sock puppet, and I think I've effectively established that. Do we have an agreement on that one point? (Note - I really shouldn't do stuff like this first thing in the morning before I'm fully awake, that's why the multiple edits) UrbanTerrorist (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry; but lets get this clear - this tactic you are now using (trying to misdirect the issues to specific areas, turn it onto another issue and disprove it via that) is something we have all seen before. It doesn't impress me, and no one falls for it :) This block is about the wider aspect of your behaviour. Not whether you were a sockpuppet or not. --Errant (chat!) 12:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I edit conflicted with ErrantX saying something similar in a different way. My way of putting it is, even if I/we assume that somehow that one specific point was not actually some sort of indirect threat, what about the other issues? The name dropping was not foremost among my concerns when I blocked you.  So, please address the bigger problems--your indirect legal threats and your very targeted mention that you can/will/intend to publish a book about this issue.  I recommend not telling us that we misinterpreted, because that's not going to get you anywhere--instead, please try to understand what we're saying: whatever you may think you have intended, there is no way to read your overall message as anything other than "Back Off/Do as I Say or else X, Y, Z." Qwyrxian (talk) 12:50, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, I'm back. We've finished celebrating our Silver Wedding Anniversary, which is why I haven't been around. My wife got all of my attention, instead of you.

I'm going to lay out a couple of points.

1) I'm still damned pissed off at certain people here. They've acted in a manner that is not suitable for editors of this Encyclopedia.

2) Their actions got me upset. I have a hair trigger temper. Always have had, and probably always will have. I usually keep it under better control than I did this time, but there were extenuating circumstances, particularly Sam's death. I'll admit that I didn't handle his death at all well. This isn't the only place where my temper went ballistic. I'll probably be apologizing to people for the next six months or more. Damn, I loved that dog.

Yeah, there's other things, but everything comes from those two things, and most of it comes from my loosing Sam when I did, the way I did. I'll happily admit that the little mutt meant more to me than most people do.

So, yes, I got wildly out of line. Being mostly off line over the last week gave me a chance to cool down and think about what happened. Yes, I would have fought against the AfD and against the bad edits that certain editors were making. No, I wouldn't have been as in your face confrontational.

In other words I messed up, I admit it, and I'll do my damnedest to make sure it doesn't happen again. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 02:35, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You should use the template to make your unblock request, otherwise it may not get noticed at all, unless admins are watching your page. I, Jethrobot</b> drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 02:41, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you (UrbanTerrorist) kindly comment on the specific issues that got you blocked; specifically, I'm thinking about the threat of publication and what we perceived to be legal threats. I'd like to know how you would handle similar issues in the future. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:33, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * You may also want to keep in mind, Urban, that whether or not you meant the statements to be threatening really isn't the point. Qwyrxian, I, and other admins have no way to know what you intended; we only have our interpretations to go on.  So it won't help for you to say that you didn't mean the statements the way they have been read, we want to know that, in the future, you'll be more sensitive to how easy it can be for others to misinterpret your meaning.  And that you'll try to avoid making statements that can be easily misinterpreted (such as bringing up references to legalities or litigation when they're not already involved), as well, but that is not always possible.  Cheers.  <i style="color:green;">lifebaka</i>++ 17:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

September, 2011

 * Urban, I'm not certain you're reading the above. While losing your cool didn't help the situation, it is not the primary cause of your block.  Could you please answer the following:
 * Are you still planning to write a book about your experiences on Wikipedia with regards to Heroes in Hell and related articles?
 * Do you understand how others could have read your comments about writing such a book to be an attempt to chill discussion?
 * Do you understand how bringing up irrelevant legal matters can also be seen as an attempt to chill discussion?
 * Will you try not to do these things in the future?
 * Thanks.  lifebaka ++ 04:26, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

No, no, no, yes. Let me explain. I'm not planning on writing about my experiences in regards to Heroes in Hell. I am however considering writing about the issues that new editors face on Wikipedia, which is something that several people have talked to me about. The rules are labyrinthine to say the least, and are chasing contributors away. That I'm writing about. If I can help a new editor avoid the pitfalls and stay, it helps the project.

Once again, I didn't bring up any legal issues. I pointed out that allowing inaccurate information on the site was stupid. I also pointed out that consensus isn't always an appropriate method of decision making. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Editors need to look at the situation and evaluate what is the best option. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 02:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVI, August 2011
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Huh
People like you are pretty much the people a project like this could use :-). Sorry you had a hard time of it over the past month here. -- SB_Johnny &#124; talk 22:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I sometimes am too strident when making my points. This is a fault that I know I have, and try to avoid. I did a really bad job of it after Sam died. Hell, I was a total disaster for about two months after Sam died. Here's a picture of Kleopatra, my newest editor, as she was when she moved in. She's grown quite a bit since then.



Hum, guess images don't work the same way on talk pages, either that or I'm more tired than I think. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 02:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Catalytic converter book
Hi there. In John DeLorean's book "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors", he makes a vague reference in a list of GM foulups: "Monolithic catalytic converter—millions of dollars wasted". GM's converters were for years of a pelletized design which I understand is highly restrictive compared to the monolithic design which Ford, Chrysler, and other automakers seemed not to have any trouble commercializing right from the start. I'd like to see detailed coverage of how GM managed to miss that target so expensively, and general coverage of the pelletized vs. monolithic designs' relative merits and drawbacks. I am greatly looking forward to your book, which I agree is very much needed. Let me know when you are ready for a copyeditor; I specialize in copyediting engineering and technical books. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Scheinwerfermann T&middot;C 03:25, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll keep your offer in mind. I'm picking up some work myself right now copy editing, I should be finished Ann Margetson's Poems of Faith and have it uploaded Monday or Tuesday. As to this book, I'm looking forward to it. Its going to be fun. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 00:02, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
<b style="color:green; font-family:Corbel;">I, Jethrobot</b> drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 02:33, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
<b style="color:green; font-family:Corbel;">I, Jethrobot</b> drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 04:20, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Beindustrial drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 11:56, 06 October 2011 (GMT)

DPF Fuel Economy Section
I know why you want to delete it but as of now it has decent attention. I don't have very many articles on my watchlist but this is one. Let the editing go on. Lets just see what happens, there are multiple IP editors with conflicting views on the matter at hand.

Never mind I was looking at the page wrong.--Dana60Cummins (talk)


 * There were too many inaccuracies to leave it. If they want to do some work, and find solid citations I have no problem with them putting it back. In fact I know of places where they could look, but I don't think that they will find what they are looking for, because to the best of my knowledge they are wrong about the affect. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 21:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
causa sui (talk) 21:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback templates
I've seen you using talkback quite often when replying to other user's comments. This isn't what the template is designed for, and I worry that it could create confusion with less savvy users. talkback is primarily designed to be used to notify others of your replies, rather than appear at the end of them, and your current use could lead others to believe that you have also left them replies on your own talk page. When you edited my talk page, for example, the result looked like this, which seems to say that, in addition to that message, I have more messages here. If you wouldn't mind stopping, it would avoid the slightly confusing situation. Cheers. lifebaka ++ 22:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'd just figured that out on my own. Sometimes the instructions here look like they were written in English, translated to German, translated to Italian, translated to Finnish, translated to Japanese, translated to Greek, and then translated to English. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 03:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Everything I learn, I learn by watching and borrowing from other Wikipedians. I just borrowed OrangeMike's Mizabot setup. Mine wasn't working. Now it will. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 02:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Heh. Now I'm doing Mizabot setups for people on the side. Hey, why not. If they can't figure it out, well, I like to help. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 16:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Consensus of the Heroes in Hell Merge - Did it include all of the Books and Stories?
According to my memory during the Lawyers in Hell AfD discussion about merging the Heroes in Hell articles into one large article, it was decided ALL the articles were to be merged. No mention was made of leaving any of the articles separate.

When I went to merge the one remaining article, one editor got really upset saying that the merge discussion did not include this article, Gilgamesh in the Outback. I believe that the consensus was for all articles. The admin who is currently handling the dispute was not involved at the time, and needs to see a show of hands. If you have any opinion on the issue could you please make your opinion known at Talk:Gilgamesh in the Outback. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 16:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVII, September 2011
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The Bugle: Issue LXVIII, October 2011
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Catalytic converter
Hi, UrbanTerrorist. You didn't, by chance, just today work on Catalytic converter without being logged in, did you? It doesn't look like your work, but I thought I'd check. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Scheinwerfermann T&middot;C 05:54, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, wasn't me. I've been working on some other stuff, and haven't had time for Wikipedia the last couple of months. You've got me curious though, this I have to see. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 20:19, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011
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December 2011
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did at Catalytic converter, you may be blocked from editing. ''You may not remove supported assertions or references simply because they tend to cast doubt on your unsupported recollection or opinion. '' Scheinwerfermann (talk) 04:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What support? I have asked you to supply any support to back up your assertion that 1975 is the correct you. You have not done so. At the present the 1975 model year rests solely on a date with no documentary evidence. Please supply that evidence. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 04:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Um…dude, the evidence is right there, properly formatted and readily accessible as citations of a wide variety of sturdily reliable sources including GM themselves -- and you know it, because for some strange reason you deleted it, but I restored it . If you don't see it, it's because you are bound and determined not to. Now then, how'd it go with Roger or whatever his name was, the big high muckety-muck who was gonna back up your faulty recall that regular production 1974 Chevrolets were equipped with catalytic converters? How'd that phone call go, chief? Now kindly please quit horsing around, be a grownup, and either contribute in an adult manner or go away. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Scheinwerfermann T&middot;C 04:27, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but number 2 is a magazine article, and not necessarily accurate. Number 3 is a Peterson Publishing manual, and again, not necessarily accurate. Number 4 is the Toledo Blade, a newspaper. Number 5 is the Milwaukee Sentinel, another newspaper. Do you have any documentation from General Motors, and California Air Resources Board, or the Environmental Protection Agency?


 * No, I haven't heard back from Roger yet. I haven't had time to chase him up. I've got a couple of short stories that I have to finish editing before Christmas. I only dropped in her today because I needed to check a definition, otherwise you probably wouldn't have seen me until the new year. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 00:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Fortunately for the integrity of this encyclopædia, you are not the arbiter of what is and isn't a reliable source. RS is, and under RS all the sources you dismiss as "not accurate" are in fact exemplarily solid. But okeh, sure, y'want something direct from the EPA? Can do., , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and I could go on (and on and on). CARB? Can do that, too: , , , , , , , and . Each and every one of 'em says 1975—as does the direct-from-GM material already presently being used as referential support for the assertion in several articles, and which you appear to have chosen to ignore. You seem to have been unable or unwilling to read the sources that have been put before you so far, so if the idea of actually having to read upsets or beats you, simply search each of these sources for "1975". You can do that, right?


 * Also under RS whatever you might think you understand of whatever your guy might tell you on the phone, if he actually exists, is not an acceptable source. 1975 is reality, 1974 is not, and that's the end of it unless and until you can come up with some RS-compliant(!) support for your "1974" assertion, of greater veracity than the mountain of evidence supporting 1975. The grownup thing for you to do now is to say "Oops, guess I was wrong" and let it drop. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Scheinwerfermann T&middot;C 05:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, sorry. The EPA has no on-site records before the early 1980's. I'll send you the contact information for the gentleman I deal with at the Office of Transportation and Air Quality, and he can confirm this for you. He is too young to have been working there during that time period himself.
 * So anything you pull from the EPA website cannot be regarded as accurate. I didn't find out about the records issue until I called him on December 21st. He doesn't know where the records are, my guess is that they are probably stored in a warehouse some where.
 * It is possible that the Air Resources Board has on-site records, however I wasn't able to reach my usual contacts there. Considering the time of year I'm not surprised. I'll try again next week.
 * I'll also try to contact the names that Roger passed me next week. This promises to be fun. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 22:29, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

There's no "fun" to be had here. The matter is settled. Can't tell if you're being willfully clueless or what, but every last one of the refs I presented above is compliant with RS which is the standard by which reliability of sources is assessed here. Your opinion of what constitutes a reliable source, as and how it differs from RS, is of no consequence and carries no weight. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">Scheinwerfermann T&middot;C 23:19, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * What, finding supporting documentation isn't fun? I enjoy it. Of course one of my hobbies is genealogy. Searching for and finding documentation is great entertainment. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 18:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Military Historian of the Year
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The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXII, March 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIII, April 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012
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GOCE July 2012 Copy Edit Drive
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The Bugle: Issue LXXVI, July 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXVII, August 2012
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Military history coordinator election
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The Bugle: Issue LXXVIII, September 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIX, October 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXX, November 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXI, December 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXII, January 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIII, February 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIV, March 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXXX, September 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCI, October 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCII, November 2013
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Request for Comment
A request for comment has been started on an issue you have been discussing at Talk:Doctor_Who. Blethering  Scot  21:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIII, December 2013
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The Bugle: Issue XCIV, January 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCV, February 2014
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The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CI, August 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014
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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux
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The Bugle: Issue CIV, November 2014
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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!
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Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!
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The Bugle: Issue CV, December 2014
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The Bugle: Issue CVI, January 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CVII, February 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CVIII, March 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015
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The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 05:08, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:47, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!
On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 05:06, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:14, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Moon OS


The article Moon OS has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Has lacked third-party sources since 2009; failing WP:GNG.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Aoidh (talk) 10:30, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Moon OS for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Moon OS is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Moon OS until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Aoidh (talk) 06:10, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:15, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016
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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:04, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:44, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 07:57, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:27, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:17, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:30, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 14:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!
Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 7 January 2017 (UTC)