User talk:Urthogie/Archive9

Hello, world!
Feel free not to use original research, cracker ass cracker jacker! Making sweeping generalizations about a region that goes from Minnesota to Ohio, with Missouri, Mississippi, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, and Kentucky inbetween is MIGHTY uncool! MOD 13:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think you know what a generalization is. A generalization doesn't mean saying something about a movement or region.  I'm sorry we can't live in a world where we only know 3 letter words, and can't notice patterns.--Urthogie 14:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * A generalization precisely means saying something about something. The only difference is: a generalization makes a false majority out of inconclusive data. Saying Midwestern rap is characterized by a fast pace is akin to saying East Coast rap is slow, or all Southern rap is crunk, or all West Coast rap is about pimping. MOD  16:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, what in the hell is the follow-up? "I'm sorry we can't live in a world where we only know 3 letter words, and can't notice patterns." What does that even mean? I don't need to remind you that you're in a different hemisphere entirely and anything you say about the Midwest in America is strictly academical. MOD  16:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe you could have a civil discussion if you didn't go on the attack from the get-go.--Urthogie 20:43, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No need to get defensive and thus avoid my points. I'm not here to personally attack you, I'm here to make sure what you say is verifiable. Now how about them answers? MOD  21:35, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok. In the future, only start silly conversations with "cracker".  Anyways, I think what you're missing about what I'm saying is that I'm not saying I'll midwestern rappers are making rap in the midwest style.  The midwestern style is usually in one of two camps: you've got your emo/indie rappers, and your death obesessed melodic guys influenced by the west and the south.--Urthogie 07:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't tell me what to do, Joseph McStalin. And that dichotomy is still unproven. For example, Rhymefest isn't emo/indie or death-obsessed. MOD  10:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Just because two trends exist doesn't mean everyone follows them.--Urthogie 13:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

A trend status would necessitate that a majority is following a certain set of behaviors and attitudes. Two trends would mean that there is one singular "rap" trend with two branches, which still require about 25% majority each to exist. As far as the major label rappers from Midwest go, not even 25% of them rap fast. Where is the verification of your statement? It's still not here, amidst all this stonewalling and your avoiding the question. MOD 16:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Chill out. I'm not "stonewalling".  If I was, I'd revert your putting an originalresearch or unverified tag on it.  I'll find a source when I get a chance.  By the way, trends don't rely on some arbitrary percentage, they rely on the community's consensus of itself, and the mainstream press coverage of the genre.  By your logic, there are no trends in southern rap-- after all, noones done a survey finding 25% of southern rappers do anything.--Urthogie 17:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You told me to feel free to put either of those up. And there are no trends in rap, these days anything goes. MOD  00:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats your opinion.--Urthogie 08:32, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * By that token, so is yours, in calling two entirely arbitrary traits of Midwestern rap its trends. MOD  12:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll verify it when I get a chance. Until then the tag can stay.--Urthogie 12:33, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No harm intended in this, but you're not the master of the tags. It's not your pet article, so you have no say whatsoever about other people's opinions on what's wrong with it. Other than that, get to verifying it. MOD  12:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Lol. This is hilarious.  You're actually saying someone would protect their "pet" article, by insiting that someone mark it with unverified or unoriginal research tags.  People that have pet articles try to avoid that.--Urthogie 12:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * First, you didn't insist. You said, "feel free." Second, I said it's NOT your pet article. Third, the whole reply was a reaction to your second sentence, "Until then the tag can stay," which I took to mean, "I'll let you do whatever you like." Starting sentences with Lol also makes you look uneducated and vapid. And get to verifying it, dammit! MOD  21:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a huge to do list for articles requiring cleanup and verification. This isn't on the top, sorry.--Urthogie 07:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't get so serious about an online encyclopedia that you can't defend yourself in a fairly simple debate. Let me do it for you, why not?
 * Me: Get to verifying the article (for the umpteenth time)!
 * You: Lol. Irrelevant aside, a straw man, lack of reading comprehension skills.
 * Me: Sigh. This is why you're wrong. Get to verifying the article.
 * You: That's your opinion.
 * Me: Get to verifying the article (by this time, the audience should realize there IS no article to be verified, it's a claim you made that is used for categorizing rappers into the Midwest category).
 * You: Maybe if you could be civil about it. Stop attacking people.

And so on and so forth until you never/do verify that Midwestern rap has one of these (I count three now) trends: emoness, rapping fast, melodic death obsession. It takes you a lot less time to verify claim after claim YOU made than it does for you to undertake the monumental task of 9 Main namespace edits a day. So keep it real and true. And as always, get to verifying the article. MOD 17:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There's no need to rush. I will do it.  Right now I'm focused on categorizing and getting rapping featured.  I'll get more specific once the most linked to pages are better.  chill out theres no rush.--Urthogie 18:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

DRV
Thanks for you comments here. It's nice to see a few isolated voices of sanity on an issue that has been causing me a lot of wiki-stress recently. It looks like the "cabal" of wikipologists will prevail this time (as is the nature of the adverse selection of DRV), but the responses of a few experienced wikipedians (yourself included) prevented me from taking a very long hiatus from the project over this issue. savidan(talk) (e@) 22:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

afd for List of rappers notable for their race
You have a good point, but "List of white rappers" isn't POV for American rappers, and that's more likely a bigger hip-hop scene. "List of rappers notable for their race" is more problematic to me, because it suggests that the rappers are only notable for their race, and for nothing else. Maybe since I'm from the US I am more used to hip hop being a genre for black people and for people who think they are black, save for some nerdcore hip hop artists e.g. MC Frontalot. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 23:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * However, your idea for a Race in hip hop article is a good one. If you'd like to start one, please go ahead. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 23:15, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

On vanilla ice...
This is the guy who edited Rapping. TO be honest with you, I don't remember at the time where I learned of Ice's defense. Its clear at VanillaIce.com etc. that he is disillusioned with the image the companies created for at him at the time but I can't find specs. I could've swore I found it somewhere else in Wikipedia, to tell you the truth, but it aint in Vanilla's own page. It may be in white rapper or something, haven't checked that yet. I'll keep looking, and btw when I'm logged in I'm user 'BMSprint'

Spam: a false positive
Hello, we've had a false positive on Slovak Wikipedia, which was blocked by the software. It's a free webhosting site mujweb.cz The article in question is sk:Konfucius. We don't know where to report this. Please, respond here: sk:Wikipédia:Krčma/Technické. helix84 10:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have responded @ sk:Wikipédia:Krčma/Technické helix84 13:36, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

UE
European Union is an economic, politics and social union. Exception handling - military. UE is 25 autonomy country and 1 totality organism/system (similar - United States: 51 autonomy state is 1 totality organism/system ). LUCPOL 21:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Европе́йский Сою́з — уникальное наднациональное образование в составе 25 европейских государств, подписавших Договор о Европейском Союзе. LUCPOL 21:43, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not one country, European Union is an economic, politics and social union. UE is 25 autonomy country and 1 totality organism/system.
 * Where are your from? LUCPOL 21:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Rapcore
I like Hip-Hop and music Limp Bizkit / KMK / Cypress Hills (Hip-Hop + elements rock/metal). I not like Nu-Metal (rock + elements Hip-Hop) - Korn etc. LUCPOL 14:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm professional fans Rapcore american and polish. I know Rapcore = Hip-hop + elements rock/heavy metal.
 * Your revert = me revert (always!!!). To fall back. Your to fall back is not war edition. Stop. LUCPOL 15:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

re: rapping
It seems that it will be sometime before the rapping article gets accepted for rapping to be accepted as our new Collaboration. Tutmosis has claimed that he wants others to weigh in their opinions before we announce rapping as our new collaboration. However, our voting process (which has not been defined) has been notoriously slow, and I am very eager for this article to become a Featured Article. So I am considering nominating this article for Featured-Article regardless if it ever gets accepted for collaboration. What do you think? Would you rather us wait or should we nominate it for FA-status right away P.O.N.Y. 22:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Great! Oh, by the way, I think the article needs to mention Rakim and his role in shaping lyricism P.O.N.Y. 19:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Are the examples in the "subject matter" section really necessary. It looks messy and makes the section more difficult to read in my opinion. P.O.N.Y. 20:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

congrats
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! TheJ a  bb  e  rw  &#664;  ck 22:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Rapcore
Your revert = me revert (always!!!). To fall back. Your to fall back is not war edition. Stop. LUCPOL 15:47, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Urthogie + 85.18.14.4 = love ;)
 * You to absolve. I always reverting true - Rapcore = Rap + elements rock/metal. LUCPOL 11:15, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Traitor, Judas. To give rapcore rock-people. Rapcore is rap + elements rock/metal. They (rock-people) to have Nu-metal: rock/metal + elements rap/hip-hop. LUCPOL 13:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * PS. I'm hip-hop fans. I'm like hip-hop/rap/rapcore. I dont like Nu-metal/metal/rock. I'm listen to Cypress Hills, Limp Bizkit, Kottonmouth Kings etc. I know - Rapcore is rap + elements rock/metal. True good! LUCPOL 13:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * True-good? How about you truly learn to follow consensus.  Better yet, learn english so we can actually use talk pages, instead of spending hours trying to explain basic english to you.--Urthogie 16:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I won't edit war. Stop edit war. I'm to stop. I'm stop revert. Please delete your edit -->. End edit war. LUCPOL 19:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed? LUCPOL 19:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of HD
This is not main-stream nor substantiated criticism, not even heard of in the most extremist of Polish media. This is a cherry-picked interpretation of a guest's comment, and doesnt merit being included in the article. I appreciate your mediation attempts, though Id like to give you a primer on the background of the whole conflict, as it's not as black and white as it may seem. There are some facts omitted in the article, such as John Paul II's staunch support of the radio (hardly an anti-semite), the Polish Bishops' Council's support, etc. Ill try to find the time this evening to straighten the article out somewhat, and primary sources will be provided of course. Cheers. Ksenon 13:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

rapping
Are the examples in the "subject matter" section necessary? It may make that section look messy. Organization of the text was a reason for objections when the article was nominated as an Featured Article candidate. Chubdub 22:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, we may need to re-format the section entirely. Do you think there is any other alternative to replace current list form. How about a prose perhaps? You produced the majority of the article, so it is ultimately your decision on what changes to make before we nominate it again. Chubdub 21:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe you should try expanding each individual topic and combining it (as you did with the "Delivery Section"). If more researching is a problem for you then (as I could imagine) then you can always re-insert the examples that I deleted. Chubdub 22:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is ready for FA-nomination. Unless you feel the need to make any further edits... Chubdub 20:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

so, what do you say? Chubdub 00:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

gender role
So u wanna do a joint nomination for FARC? Tony 14:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

aww
a little sandy in our nether regions are we? sad that a sense of humor is abandoned in lieu of overprotection and a thin skin. MOD 16:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Please remember that Wikipedia is not a free webhost. - ulayiti (talk)  17:09, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Understood.--Urthogie 21:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The golden age of hip hop for deletion?
I see that The golden age of hip hop is up for deletion. I wonder what you think of this. I notice that you started it. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-20

Rapping
I've added references to the rapping article. I think it is time to nominate it for Featured Article. P.O.N.Y. 17:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

deletion log for PTC Gz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/PTC_Gz

not cool. i'm from peachtree city, went to McIntosh HS, and my brother who died two years ago was on that CD. i want it restored. i'll write the article and do it thoroughly. i'm a journalism major and i personally know EVERYONE involved in that project. i have the 2nd CD and can get the first from someone. it exists. it's important to a LOT of people and even moreso after my brother dying. please bring it back so i can at least see what was there so i know how much editing needs to be done. please?

ughhh
so you're not admin? the undeletion thing is really confusing and i don't know what to do :-(

i'm new to being a wiki editor, but i've been a reader for awhile and i haven't read through the entire tutorial yet. every page has too many internal links that i keep clicking on and it's already 2 a.m. time for bed for me. ummm. Eudaemonic_relations if that works.

RE: your comment on my talk page
what qualifies as notable? and who gets to decide? isn't the whole point of this to be as comprehensive of an encyclopedia as possible because it's ALWAYS being edited and updated? why is Incubus a "notable" band or even T.I., but PTC Gz aren't? it's not just significant to ME, it's significant to an entire network of people affected by their existence, some of who i don't even know, and THAT is what makes it notable. Not just people who went to our high school either. These guys just graduated from colleges all over the country - Emory University in Atlanta, the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech, NYU, etc. When they went to college four years ago, they took their PTC Gz CDs with them and exposed all their friends to it. Anyone who KNOWS someone from Peachtree City will tell you how unique the town is and therefore the people from it. Just like Madonna is a part of the world's notion of pop music and pop culture, PTC Gz are a part of ours. The fact that you guys at wikipedia had that whole deletion log of back and forth comments to each other about how something that's a part of Peachtree City history "doesn't exist" pisses me off.

Eudaemonic relations 14:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:White rappers
Wouldn't it be better to move it to White American rappers //Caucasian American rappers or something?? I meant White rappers from America.

golden age of hip hop
Why do you support this article so much. Rap has not helped save anyone. It is not important. Besides, you sound like an idiot. I believe you should change your ideas about life, before you do something stupid. --Jar Jar 16:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

re: "golden age of hip-hop"
The club was in Florida, meaning that it was primarily comprised of New Yorkers (no one in Florida is from Florida). My point, at its simplest, is that there is no consensus on when a "golden age of hip hop" took place. I've heard many people say hip-hop was at its best before 1985, I've heard some people say it was, like you said, at its best before 1993, and I've heard preople say it was at its best before 1996. These people are a wde range: from retired old-school hip-hoppers, to magazine writers for hip-hop and mainstream magazines, to The Vibe History of Hip-Hop on my bookshelf. I honestly don't know if you'd get a precise time period from professional reference material; I haven't been able to. --FuriousFreddy 16:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, if you don't listen to Sly & the Family Stone right now, we will have a problem ;). Go to iTunes (right now!) and get these songs (for starters):


 * 1) "Dance to the Music" from Dance to the Music
 * 2) "Into My Own Thing" from Life
 * 3) "M'Lady" from Life
 * 4) "Sing a Simple Song" from Stand!
 * 5) "Stand!" from Stand!
 * 6) "I Want to Take You Higher" from Stand!
 * 7) "Don't Call Me Nigger, Whitey" from Stand!
 * 8) "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" from The Essential Sly & the Family Stone (that's the only available stereo copy. All other availiable copies are in rechanneled mono)
 * 9) "Family Affair" from There's a Riot Goin' On
 * 10) "Just Like a Baby" from There's a Riot Goin' On
 * 11) "Luv 'n' Haight" from There's a Riot Goin' On
 * 12) "In Time" from Fresh
 * 13) "If You Want Me to Stay" from Fresh
 * 14) "Frisky" from Fresh

Sly, James Brown, and other artists like Curtis Mayfield, The Meters, B.T. Express, etc. were the foundation of hip-hop. Just listening to those Sly songs, you'll hear over two-dozen individual samples. -16:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:Hip hop singers
Thank you for telling me about it. In fact, this category was nominated on May 26 but was not tagged, and that possibly influenced the outcome. So I have relisted it here. Conscious 15:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Hip hop barnstar
Thanks for the star. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-05

Rosetta Barnstar
You have made my day! Thank you! They told me Latin was a pain in the arse, but I never really believed them. --Jumbo 08:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update
As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, &mdash;Cel es tianpower háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)