User talk:User452


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Welcome!
Hello, User452, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially your edits to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:User452&action=edit&redlink=1. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful: Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or and a volunteer will visit you here shortly. Again, welcome! 115ash →(☏) 15:10, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
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 * Yeah, those edits to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:User452&action=edit&redlink=1 sure were great, I'm glad you liked them.
 * Given that my first edit was in Oct 2011, this welcome message is a little late. -User452 (talk) 17:10, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

April 2020
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Saints Row IV, you may be blocked from editing. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:31, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
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 * "discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page"?
 * I did so, and on that editor's talk page, I clearly stated: "Both of the referenced articles make it perfectly clear that they are 2 separate issues: weapon in a DLC and drug [in] a mission."
 * The disruption in this case is being caused by "Isaidnoway", who clearly hasn't read the referenced articles, and is repeatedly restoring false information not supported by the referenced articles.


 * First, let's look at the facts:
 * The Rectifier Probe weapon is not featured in the Psychosomatic mission, and no news articles have ever claimed that the weapon is featured in the mission.
 * The Rectifier Probe weapon and the Psychosomatic mission are two separate things, which the Australian Classification Board cited for two separate issues.
 * The Rectifier Probe is a weapon in a single-item DLC which is included in the Season Pass bundle as well as for individual purchase.
 * The optional Psychosomatic mission takes place later in the game, and does NOT feature the weapon. And no news article ever claimed it did.
 * The mission name is "Psychosomatic", while the QUEST name is "Girls Night Out", leading to that name often being used instead.
 * (Additionally, the Rectifier Probe DLC remains unavailable in Australia, as a search of the Steam forums will verify. This is an unimportant detail which is unrelated to my point, but it is a fact nonetheless.  All news sources accepted the publisher's pre-release statement that the weapon would still be available, and none of them followed up post-release.  So, wikipedia is free to make the false assertion that Australia has access to the weapon, because all of the pre-release articles say that the publisher said it "will".)


 * Second, let's look at the history:
 * Before 16 March 2015, the information was accurate. (Apart from using the quest name as the mission name.)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saints_Row_IV&oldid=651563113#Controversy
 * "Saints Row IV was refused classification in Australia, stating "interactive, visual depictions of implied sexual violence which are not justified by context" in reference to "the Rectifier" weapon. The board also stated that the game includes "elements of illicit or prescribed drug use related to incentives or rewards" referring to the mission "Girls Night Out" in which Shaundi takes an alien drug to gain superpowers."
 * This version clearly and correctly stated that there were 2 issues: "implied sexual violence" in reference to the weapon, and also "drug use related to rewards" referring to the mission.


 * Since 16 March 2015, the information has been inaccurate.
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saints_Row_IV&direction=next&oldid=651568002#Release_and_downloadable_content
 * "but was later accepted when modified to remove an optional mission[15] that involved an anal probe weapon and incentivized drug use.[16]"
 * This version clearly and incorrectly states that the mission involves BOTH the weapon and the drugs. This is not true, and is not supported by the references.


 * Luckily for me it's worded with the weapon mentioned first and the drugs second, so you can't weasel out of it by claiming it's just an ambiguous "and". I guess you can still try to claim the "and" is ambiguous, but reading it as "(an optional mission[15] that involved an anal probe weapon) and (incentivized drug use[16])" would be even more wrong than claiming they're both part of the mission.


 * Third, let's look at the references:
 * There are 2 relevant references - the 15 and 16 in the above quote - both from IGN.


 * https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/29/saints-row-iv-refused-classification-in-australia-again
 * An alien anal probe weapon and a side-mission that featured the use of “alien narcotics” related to in-game superpowers were the reasons the Classification Board cited for the ban.
 * Note the word and, because they are separate issues.
 * Note that this does not say: "a side-mission that featured an alien anal probe weapon and the use of “alien narcotics”".


 * https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/02/saints-row-iv-cleared-for-australian-release
 * A single, optional side mission has been removed in order to comply with Australia’s classification guidelines. The mission contained the use of a substance Volition referred to as ‘alien narcotics’ which improved certain superpowers temporarily within the game.
 * The anal probe weapon, which was highlighted as problematic when the Classification Board initially rated Saints Row IV RC back in June, is still due to be available in Australia as part of the Season Pass DLC package.
 * IGN at no point claims that the mission contained the weapon, only that the mission contained drugs.
 * IGN even specifically mentions that the mission has been removed, but the weapon has not, and has this quote: "The rectifier weapon will be available as part of a DLC package as originally intended."


 * The IGN references already fully support my point that the weapon is not part of the mission, but here are some other articles with additional details:
 * https://kotaku.com/alien-anal-probe-gets-saints-row-iv-banned-in-austr-579208506
 * https://www.refused-classification.com/censorship/games/saints-row-4.html
 * Meanwhile, I cannot find a single source which claims the weapon is featured in the mission. Because it isn't.


 * Question 1: Does the IGN article say "a side-mission that features (a weapon AND drugs)", or does it say "(A weapon) AND (a side mission that features drugs)"?
 * Question 2: How does it make any sense to come to the conclusion that the weapon was part of the mission, since the cited article clearly states that the weapon was always DLC?


 * I expect answers to both of these questions, and an apology from both of you.
 * However, please don't correct the sentence. It has been wrong for 5 years already, so let's just leave it incorrect forever!
 * Who cares about accuracy or correctly comprehending referenced articles anyway?
 * User452 (talk) 22:13, 29 April 2020 (UTC)