User talk:Uyvsdi/Archive 5

Southeastern tribes
Would this listing at Southeastern tribes, Mobila, be the same as Mabila which we have a page for? Or would it be the later Mobile village/group encountered by the French (for which they named Mobile, Alabama) and thought by some to be descendants of the former?.see here Just wondering if should be changed it or not  He  iro 04:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The trusty Handbook of North American Indians says they are the same on page 668, so that's good enough for me, but Donald Albury would probably be the most knowledgeable on the subject. -Uyvsdi (talk) 06:10, 3 June 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * I've seen at least 6 ways of spelling it, same location, etc. So gonna change it.  He  iro 06:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Re: Re: Taíno
Hi Uyvsdi, I don't know; I was just doing a history merge to fix a cut and paste move. Ask why he is performing the page moves. (I notice that you have had a discussion with him at Talk:Taíno people. Please don't ever do cut and paste moves again, and please use the new section button! :-) Graham 87 00:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. I thought you were part of a new movement to spontaneously move all ethnic articles, so I figured you seem reasonable and I could ask why. If it's only the one user on a continued rampage, it can be cleaned up/reverted. Thanks for getting back to me. -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:37, 7 June 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Assessments
Uyvsdi:

Hi. Let me begin by sying that I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was going over articles I had created last year, and adding assessments as needed (mostly for the sake of WPArgentina, since they have a terrific backlog of unassessed articles). I failed to notice, however, that you had just done so for the two entries in question, and changed them only because even though they are indeed stubs, most of what is referred to as a "stub" here on Wikipedia is nothing more a than a two-sentence dictionary definition with no detail, images, or references. I thought these two articles were a little more than that, that's all.

Of course, I have nothing more than a layman's knowledge of the subject (that is, only vague notions), and you are an expert. Suffice it to say, I'll defer to you on this subject. Thank you for all your work in this key area.

Please let me know if I could be helpful to you in the future.

All the best, Sherlock4000 (talk) 22:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Right on, thanks for explaining. I actually didn't realize you could assess your own articles, but it looks like it's just fine. I am absolutely no expert on South America. Sadly, I haven't even traveled there yet, so all the help you provide on South American articles is greatly appreciated! -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:01, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

just fyi
new article may need project tags portals etc.....Y-DNA haplogroups in Indigenous peoples of the Americas.Moxy (talk) 17:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be a list? -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:44, 8 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * I think so - the others are like that.Moxy (talk) 17:46, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Lost Worlds.org
Don't know if you've ever followed links to this site or not,, but I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with them. I've read thru a few of their articles and quit a few of them push fringe theories, usually involving a Mexican origin for the Mississippian cultures of Georgia. In fact it seems to be a pervasive thread that runs thru the majority of their articles that I have looked at. This is a theory that I believe has no acceptance in academia and is a debunked fringe theory at best. They have plenty of useful info otherwise, lots of neat graphics, etc, but their focus on this idea bothers me. What are your thoughts on it?  He  iro 12:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * To be fair, the Chickasaw oral history says they came from Mexico, but then they aren't a Georgian or Florida tribe. The Lost Worlds website doesn't look very scholarly, but no matter what, people cannot go around adding their own website to WP. What articles are linked the site? -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * Here's another of their websites pointed out to me by another editor . To quote "Mr. Daniels is a television and web producer and holds an A.A. degree in Art, B.F.A. in Video, and a M.A. degree in Film/Video/Digital Motion Imaging. It was during research for his master’s thesis project, LostWorlds.org, that he first stumbled onto a 250 year cycle relating to the rise and fall of Native American settlements in the southeastern U.S. As he researched this phenomena more he then became aware of the 256-year katun cycle which Maya priests believed governed the rise and fall of civilizations. It was then that Mr. Daniels discovered that the katun cycles were associated with very specific predictions and these predictions included the time period around 2012. Intrigued by these discoveries, Mr. Daniels decided to research this topic more and share his findings with the public, thus was born 2012Quest.com."2012quest.com Adding 2012 nonsense to the mix makes me question this as a EL even more. I searched for lostworlds.org and got 50 hits, seems to be all ELs.  He  iro  18:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is some wild OR! I found a ref linking to them on Muscogee people and replaced it with a ref from the Smithsonian's Handbook. What other articles are they on? Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 21:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * Here is a link to a search I did for lostworlds.org and got 50 articles listed. I've been waiting to see what others thought before I started removing them, so it's not just a unilateral "I dont like move" on my part. All of the ones so far seem to be ELs.  He  iro 22:35, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And here are a few that bother me the most:


 * Mississippian culture
 * Ocmulgee National Monument
 * Etowah Indian Mounds
 * Muscogee people
 * Cholula (Mesoamerican site) disguised as "Did Cholulans Flee to Southeastern U.S.A.?"
 * Kolomoki Mounds Historic Park listed as "Detailed history and theories about the mounds and its builders", which if you read the article contains this(amongst other pseudolinguistic balderdash) : "Additionally, linguistic connections between Hitchiti and Mayan also exist. For instance, Chiaha is a Mayan word that means “edge water” or “water’s edge.” This is precisely where most Swift Creek villages were constructed and thus a fitting name for this tribe. The Hitchiti word for “house” is chiki, the same as it is for the Totonacs in Mexico.".
 * Touch the Clouds listed as "Lost Worlds: An Interactive Museum of the American Indian".  He  iro 23:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * 50 articles? Wow! I guess the best compromise is replace their link with something else that's more scholarly or generally useful to a reader. I tried to find out on Muscogee people which editor added the link, but it was done over a year ago. -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * At a closer look, those 50 might actually be aboutthe first 30, seems the others may be different combinations of lost world.  He  iro 23:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

At least on the Kolomoki article, the User:Jllm06 added the link on 20 May 2009. She/he seems like an active editor, so possibly unaffiliated with the website. On Cholula (Mesoamerican site), User:Madman2001 added the link in March 2007. So at least it doesn't appear to be a webmaster adding her/his own website to all the articles. It must have been people pulling the top-ranked articles from Google without bothering to check them out. -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * That is what I've suspected was the situation, but I am still of the opinion that we probably shouldn't be linking to fringe sites written by a videographer. A few of the linked to pages seem rather innocuous and somewhat accurate, but they are still only a click or 2 away from the weird ones. Quite a few of the EL sections of articles so far have plenty of other ELs in them already, so it is not like we need to add a link in place of this one.  He  iro 23:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I took care of the articles you linked here. -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Chad Smith, Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma
I reverted your good faith edit where you stated that Smith has lost re-election and that Baker won. The election is still under review by the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court and there is a hand recount of the votes scheduled for 16 July 2011, which will supervised by the Supreme Court justices themselves. Please do not edit the article to indicate that either Smith lost or Baker won because the truth is that we just don't know who won yet.76.31.116.153 (talk) 16:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't edited that article in almost two weeks, since it's a similar situation to the most recent Kiowa tribal election. I issued the warning on your talk page based on restoring this clever addition to the article: "Smith was caught trying to cheat Bill John Baker in the 2011 Cherokee chief elections. He lost the recount & now must hang his head in great shame." Luckily the administrators agreed to semi-protect the page for the time being. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:46, 13 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Category:Canadian people of Cherokee descent
Re the above could you add a tag to the page to publicise your proposal please. And I disagree as it is also a subcategory of Category:Canadian people of First Nations descent Hugo999 (talk) 04:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, added a template to the category. What exactly are you disagreeing about? Uyvsdi (talk) 08:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Daughter Project
Uyvsdi, you left a message on my talk page pointing that Wikiproject: Native People of North America is a daughter Project of Native People of the Americas. But the page of the Project mentions "Wikiproject Ethnic groups" as its only parent project. There are templates for both projects on many pages and separate assesments. Perhaps a connection between the two projects should be pointed at the templates or their talk pages. Dimadick (talk) 17:53, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

thanks +a small rant
Thanks for the barnstar. Y'know, stuff like this is really kinda disturbing... everyone seems to assume that just because it's missing in English, nobody else can possibly have it. Really? In Some areas, we're a bit more, shall we say, "advanced" :P Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 05:21, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I wish I were advanced in tribal languages enough to write real articles. Guess I could go back to writing two sentence stubs! Keep up all the work. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:24, 25 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Native American name controversy
Have you seen the latest cleanup effort by a rather inexperienced editor here? I'm very tempted to just revert everything back to before they started. What are your thoughts?  He  iro 01:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, I've never seen anything like that, i.e. a million tiny edits. She's soliciting feedback from WP:WPIPNA. I'll try to find the quote from John Mohawk about how he uses the word "Indian" because basically any English is not going to be accurate. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mississippi Choctaw Indian Federation‎‎
Per WP:GAFD: It is generally considered civil to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion. To find the main contributors, look in the page history or talk page of the article. For your convenience, you may use Article title (for creators who are totally new users), Article title (for creators), or Article title (for contributors or established users). Toddst1 (talk) 22:42, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Right. -Uyvsdi (talk)Uyvsdi

Collaboration
If you would like to create an article on Native American women in the arts with me, I am always open for collaboration. I think that your idea to create an article is a good one. If you are interested let me know. :) --Henriettapussycat (talk) 19:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I could contribute to that article. I'm curious to know what your interest and background is in Native American art, since, prior to two days ago, you haven't previously contributed to any Native American arts article. -Uyvsdi (talk) 00:54, 19 August 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * My interest is actually on expanding knowledge on women's contributions in history. I just recently started contributing more to articles in general, and I also changed my user name. I feel like Wikipedia could use a lot more coverage on the topic of women's history in general. So while I suppose it may look like I have a superficial interest Native American people, the interest of mine is focused on women and expanding their coverage and independent identities on Wikipedia. As I said in in CfD, this has been a project for me that grew out of my frustration out of the huge amount of coverage of women from European heritage, but the minimal amount of research for other women. As an educator I want to incorporate women into my lessons who my girl students will identify with and have as role models, so I have taken it upon myself to do research. The categories were created solely for future use for women for the same purposes and heighten the coverage of women. But my true love is research, and I love finding out the history of women.--Henriettapussycat (talk) 02:41, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There's tons of written material about Native American women out there. What level are your students - college? There's a fairly new book about Edmonia Lewis, Child of the Fire: Mary Edmonia Lewis and the Problem of Art History’s Black and Indian Subject. Firelight about Angel De Cora is brilliant. The Pop Chalee monograph is quite nice. The book, Totem Carvers, about Ellen Neel, is out of print but scholars are writing more and more articles about her. My students wrote most of these wiki articles. Read Native Peoples and American Indian Art. What information do you want about Native women in the arts? -Uyvsdi (talk) 16:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * My students are elementary age (2nd grade). If you have more sources (whether literary or online) I'm really interested. I don't have a primary focus on the arts--I want to learn about women's history as a whole to provide a more inclusive view for my female students. I don't know about you, but when I was younger I wasn't provided with a lot of information about women's history--it wasn't until I went to college and took courses in women's literature that I began to learn more about women's topics. Now that I'm older I've done my own research to learn more about women's history. I have read a bit from the book about Edmonia Lewis and found it extremely engaging. --Henriettapussycat (talk) 16:46, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * When presenting to elementary school students, I like to talk about Susan LaFlesche Picotte, because she is partially responsible for water fountains being installed in schools — something kids can immediately relate to. Native American Doctor: The Story of Susan Laflesche Picotte is a great children's book about her life. Rayna Green wrote a fantastic juvenile nonfiction book, Women in American Indian Society: Indians of North America. -Uyvsdi (talk) 16:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * Here's another neglected article you might have a look at: Depiction of women artists in art history. -Uyvsdi (talk) 19:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
 * Thanks! --Henriettapussycat (talk) 01:52, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Category for Cherokee-speaking "countries"?
What are your thoughts on this note left at my talk? I have been really busy IRL for last 6 or so weeks so have been out of touch. Hope you are well,  He  iro 02:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Already nominated it for deletion. It doesn't seem helpful at all. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:04, 30 August 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Oregon native language cats
Hi, I see that you are removing the language categories from the Oregon tribe articles. I didn't place them and don't really understood the need to have them there except where the name of the language and the name of the tribe were both the same and there was very little info on either. Some may be because of redirects. I don't see many linguists working in this area anymore to find out how important keeping track of this is. Do you have a plan about how to categorize the languages? I'm not sure starting separate articles is the answer. Sometimes I'll add categories to a redirect. For example Clatsop language (if it is in fact a distinct language) could redirect to Clatsop people and the language cats could be put on the redirect. Anyway, I hope I'm making sense. I'm not real invested in this, but it seemed to matter to the language editors at one point. Thanks for all the good work cleaning these up! Valfontis (talk) 03:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I only removed them from the articles that were clearly about the people. If you want to re-add them, I can certainly leave them, but typically the languages and the ethnic groups have separate articles. Since the language redirects still point to the ethnic group articles, I'll bet there was an article that covered both, then someone renamed the article " people" w/o any other edits. If there isn't a language article or an ethnic groups, personally I leave them as redlinks, but feel free to redirect if you prefer. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:52, 2 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Cherokee spoken in Guatemala and Mexico?
Maybe that's where all those "Cherokee princesses" are coming from? -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  02:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL! Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 02:36, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the plot for the next Indiana Jones movie is unfurling before our eye. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:26, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi