User talk:VIVAK

Hi VIVAK - thanks for your recent contributions on Iranian military topics. There are a couple of problems, however. The most serious of these regards image copyrights. Wikipedia can generally only use images that are free of copyright: this means that you have taken the photograph yourself, or that you can prove that the copyright has expired or that the owner has released the copyright.

In a couple of instances, it was obvious where you had downloaded the photos from; these have already been deleted. In the case of Image:Shafaq 3381.jpg, it will be deleted in a few days unless you can prove that it is free from copyright.

The other issue has to do with this edit. You deleted a number that is correctly referenced, and replaced it with a number from some unknown source. If you have a Reliable Source (note carefully what this term means) that says that there are already 30 Azarakhshes being operated by the IRIAF, please feel free to put this information back in and tell us the source of this information.

Thanks --Rlandmann (talk) 21:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I can have Fars News E-Mail the release for the pictures of the Azarakhsh, Saegheh, and the Shafaq just give me an Email so i can have them e-mail it to you


 * It is not enough for FARS to allow Wikipedia to use the images; FARS must release all copyright and allow anyone to use the images. If FARS will agree to do this, please have them respond to you directly, then copy-and-paste their reply, together with your original request to me here and I'll be happy to help. --Rlandmann (talk) 12:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

NO problem it will take some time but i'll post it here once i get it

Why do you keep deleting the Shafaq Photo that was made by me with a photo shop program and once a photograph is changed there are no Copy Rights Issues

Meanwhile i can take a photo of these fighters off my computer and post them, right?


 * Unfortunately, copyright still exists even after a photo has been changed by someone. In copyright law, this is called a "derivative work", and the copyright in the photo is still owned by the original photographer. Therefore, we cannot use Shafaq photo that you have altered with Photoshop.


 * Also, you must not upload photos unless you took the photo yourself, or you already have proof that it is free from copyright, so no - please don't upload any more photos until you have permission from the copyright holder. If you continue to upload photos that have copyright problems, you may be blocked from Wikipedia --Rlandmann (talk) 02:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

On the Pix No Problem I'll wait until i get Fars News to release(make public) the Photos of the (Saegheh and Azarakhsh) The Photos for the Shafaq are form IRIB News I'll try to get them released as well but most likely the Copy Rights for those photos have expired

As for the Changes on IRIAF I posted the link for the sources but still some keep changing back with a link to a college in Israel now why would a college in Israel have any Idea how many fighters Iran has most of Iran's fighters are inside hangers so there is no way a student form Israel would have any facts on this matter

As for the Amount of Helicopters Iran has I have Satellite Images(Google Earth) that proves Iran has way more helicopters than what is posted on wikipedia so i changed it i can give you Satellite Coordinates and you can check it out on Google Earth but there is no link for me to post as a source

For Example: 33 34 07 52 N    51 41 12 60 E there is about 80 attack Helicopters at this site alone

would you like the rest of the Coordinates?


 * "Making public" is not the same as releasing the copyright on a work. But, we'll wait and see what FARS says. The copyright on the Shafaq pictures cannot have expired, since Iranian copyright on photos lasts for 30 years from the date that the photo was published (the United States does not recognise Iranian copyright laws, but Wikipedia does).


 * I will review the situation with the sources in the article shortly. A major revision may be necessary.


 * However, Google Earth is not acceptable on a source on Wikipedia because of our policy of no original research. This means that facts have to be referenced to published sources, not to your own count of aircraft in a Google Earth image. --Rlandmann (talk) 07:45, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

As for the Pictures we just have to wait for Fars News

So let me see an out dated work of a college student in Israel is more reliable to wikipedia than visual evidence. And as for the Azarakhsh even this College Student stated in his report that by 2003 Iran will have 30 Azarakhsh Fighters yet some one keeps changing it back to 6

He also estimated that Iran's Tank Production is 20 a year. Now for a country with 70 Million people that number is very low but for the sack of argument lets go with it Iran started production of the Zulfaghar in 1996 and it probably took 2 years for the production to get to 20 a year so from 1998-2008 at a rate of 20 a year Iran would have at a minimum 200 Zulfaghar tanks yet that number is at 100 on wikipedia


 * The work that you're referring to is not the "work of a college student in Israel"; it's an online version of a publication by The Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University and appears to qualify as a reliable source. That aside, all our information must come from published sources; please read the Original Research policy and try to understand it. If you have any questions about what this policy means, please feel free to ask, and I'll be happy to help you.


 * The figure for 6 Azarakhsh fighters probably comes from this page at globalsecurity.org, which gives this as the number known to exist in 2005. Similarly, while JCSS reports that Iran was scheduled to procure 30 Azarakhsh by 2003, if you read a few lines up, you will see that at the time the report was produced, only 6 were known to be in service. If you have a reliable source to say that these 30 aircraft were actually delivered as anticipated, then please update the figure and cite the source. As it stands, all we know is that 6 of these aircraft were built before 2005, and another 30 had been ordered. We have no evidence to say that any of those 30 were ever built or delivered.


 * The same situation applies to the tanks. We cannot accept numbers in Wikipedia based on what you, or I, or anyone thinks "would be" the case. All information has to come from a published source. If you have a reliable source that states that Iran has 200 Zulfaghar tanks, then please update our figure, and tell us what the source for that information is. --Rlandmann (talk) 02:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I've just undone your recent additions to the IRIAF inventory section, since the source you took your data from is not considered reliable, and the figures that you replaced come from a highly-respected aviation journal Aviation Week & Space Technology. Wikipedia does not generally allow websites as sources of information, unless they are official websites of corporations, governments, news agencies, universities, museums, or similar institutions. --Rlandmann (talk) 20:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * why because it not form an Israeli source


 * Your Source is form a web site too


 * Iran Purchased 15 MiG-29UB form Germany now your source says Iran only has 5 Mig-29UB and you say my source is not reliable?
 * Hear are the Fact over 21 MiG-29 Flew to Iran form Iraq
 * Iran Purchased 35 MiG-29B's its self
 * And Iran Purchased 15 MiG-29UB's From Germany and i have the pictures
 * Its not my job to find sources that you like but i will find the source and Pictures of every one then send a complain about you to Wikipedia they have had more than enough expereance with A holes like you changing facts on this website


 * a source that you like clearly has to come form Israel


 * and as for Iran total Active troops that keeps changing
 * Iran has two Military
 * One the regular Military that has a total active troop of 420,000 other is IRGC that has a total active troops of 125,000
 * those are fact that are apparent everywhere but the Idi*t that wrote that Page in Israel


 * how in hell is a college in Israel a credible source they are not a major media


 * In fact why dont you put these up as facts


 * Iran has only 1 MiG-29


 * Even though only 2 F-14 were shot down buy Iraq some how all of Iran's F-14 disappeared and now we only have 2 left


 * I'm writing a complain about you if you dont chance everything back in 24 hours
 * Fars News Said their is no copy right Issue
 * All the Pictures of Iranian Fighter jets have to be back up
 * Total F-14 59
 * Total MiG-29 55 / 12
 * Total Active Troops 545,000


 * You have 24 Hr


 * and the following is addressed to you buddy


 * Iran Military ranked 15 in the world vs Israel 26
 * http://www.globalfirepower.com/


 * Israel got its ass kick by a terrorist organization


 * and Changing facts on Wikipedia isn't going to make Israel any stronger


 * I suggest you go sit in a corner and start crying


 * Let me address your points one at a time.


 * None of the figures on the IRIAF page come from any Israeli source, and none of them come from a website. As I said to you (and as you can read on the page itself) the figures come from the 2008 Aviation Week & Space Technology Aerospace Source Book 2008''.
 * The figures in the AW&ST source are for the aircraft currently on strength; not the total number that Iran ever had, and not the total number ever ordered. If you believe that these figures are in error, then please go ahead and correct them; however, any corrections that you make must be taken from a reliable source. If you don't know what counts as a "reliable source" on Wikipedia, please click on the link I just provided.
 * A publication by a university (whether in print, or online) will generally be considered reliable. However, that doesn't matter here, since none of the Israeli figures are used in the article any more. If you have a publication from the University of Tehran with an analysis of Iranian military strength then of course it would be regarded as more reliable than one from Tel Aviv University. If you know of such a source, please provide it.
 * If FARS has agreed to let go of their copyright on the pictures you've been posting, I'm very happy. Please provide your original letter and their reply.


 * And finally, on a personal note: I'm not sure where you get the idea that I care one way or the other about Middle Eastern politics, but I can assure you that you're quite mistaken. --Rlandmann (talk) 12:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you out of your mind you put as source thats an Israeli college I give a reference from a Center for strategic and International studies  http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060417_irandelivsystem.pdf you give a source form an Israeli college 60 is not the total that Iran ever had Iran purchased 79 not 60

and Wikipedi uses Youtube as a references so your claim that websites and Google photos are not a reference is a lie


 * I have never used the JCSS article as a source; although others may have done. Like I said - it qualifies as a reliable source under Wikipedia's definition.
 * I've already referred you to the relevant policies concerning reliable sources and original research. What exactly are you having trouble understanding? --Rlandmann (talk) 00:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Final warning
If you continue to replace properly-sourced material with data that has not come from a reliable source as you did in this edit, you will be blocked from editing. --Rlandmann (talk) 00:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Center for strategic and International studies says Iran has 60 you chose to say an Israeli college is a better source
 * http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060417_irandelivsystem.pdf
 * http://xairforces.com/airforces.asp?id=50


 * two sources vs a source for an Israeli college


 * 2 sources say Iran has 24 F-1 and 59 F-14


 * vs one college in Israel a country with a $73 Billion dollar budget wants to claim its stronger than a country with a $305 Billion Budget
 * You want sources on that ok
 * http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0319060320070603
 * http://www.arabianbusiness.com/511504-iran-hikes-annual-budget-to-310bn?ln=en


 * are you crying you need a tissue


 * and you say you have no political motives will see about that

You've had your warning, and I'm now blocking you. Since this is a first block, it's customary for it to be a short one; and will expire in 24 hours.

As you've already been (repeatedly) told, the aircraft inventory numbers are those published in the Aviation Week & Space Technology yearbook for 2008. They are not from an Israeli source.

The CSIS source that you have found is reliable, although you are seriously distorting its contents. Page 18 of the report that you're citing (Iranian Nuclear Weapons? Iran's Missiles and Possible Delivery Systems) states that Iran had 60 F-14s originally delivered. It says nothing about how many remain in service. Aviation Week & Space Technology reports that, as of 2008, 20 of these remain operational, which is the figure we use.

If you have a reliable source that has a contrary figure for the number of F-14s (or anything else) still in service, you're welcome to add it after your block expires. --Rlandmann (talk) 01:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)