User talk:Valerius Tygart/Archive 3



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Cave salamander
I saw your new article Cave salamander (disambiguation); but, I am curious as to why you did not simply name it "Cave salamander". There are not multiple articles competing for this name. In fact Cave salamander is a redirect to your new article. I propose a rename to Cave salamander. What do you think? Thanks. WTucker (talk) 23:56, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * My process went like this: I searched for an article named "Cave salamander" only to find that it was a redirect to one on the genus Eurycea -- which is indeed a group largely consisting of "cave salamanders", but which nevertheless didn't seem quite right to me as the destination of the redirect. As I researched the topic, I realized what a motley group "cave salamander" really is. Certainly not a discrete taxonomic group, but also not even a coherent common name or folklore entity. It's really two things: (1) the olm and (2) a very diverse group of lungless salamanders on 2 continents which have, to various degrees, adapted themselves to living in caves. There were already numerous articles in existence on these individual animals. My first thought was that this justified a disambiguation page for "Cave salamander". As I wrote & edited it, however, I found I needed to add more detail & explanation than is typical of a dab page. (I admit, it doesn't look like a typical one.) There are probably three ways to go with it: (1) Keep it a dab page; (2) Turn it into "List of types of cave salamander"; or (3) Turn it into a general article on "Cave salamanders" (if that really is any one thing...) I would favor either #1 or #2, but I wouldn't blame anyone for taking it in any of those directions. If you think you can improve it by changing it, I don't have any objections.... Happy editing! Valerius Tygart (talk) 10:57, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be a dab page candidate if there were, say, a rock band named "The Cave Salamanders", a book and a questionably sane person who had had their name changed. If there was a diversity of things like this competing for the name, dab would be the way to go. But, even if dab is chosen, there is a place for your article as a list or main article. My vote is for a main article since your article is more than a list. In fact, it is a good explanation of the term and a contrast and compare of various species known by that common name. That is exactly what a reader might expect to find if they searched for the term. I am also pretty sure I have some referenced stuff to add to it.WTucker (talk) 14:19, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, sounds good to me. Valerius Tygart (talk) 17:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

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Herod&
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Stephen S. Morse
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Category:Authors of captivity narratives
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Fort Detrick Articles
I'm interested in your knowledge of the history of Fort Detrick. I noticed you haven't cited sources for some of the articles you've started on related subjects. I'm a MEDCOM historian, and would be interested in being able to establish your authority as a source or learn what source you used. I'm not interested in inserting annoying 'needs citation' edits into the pages you started or being the information police. I'm just someone who's interested in ensuring we don't forget some of the important things we've done. Eltrace (talk) 18:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My source was almost entirely the Norman Covert history which is on the Ft Detrick website (Covert, Norman M. (2000), "A History of Fort Detrick, Maryland", 4th Edition: 2000.) This is cited twice in the article, but should probably be cited more times. It is, however, a public domain, fed gov't document & so needn't be cited, strictly speaking. Valerius Tygart (talk) 01:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

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Matthew Dunn (author)
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August 2013
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 * chapel attached to the main building which is usually locked. El Sagrario is accessed from outside the Cathedral.

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Valley View (Romney, West Virginia)
Hey Valerius, I've been a big fan of your contributions to West Virginia topics on Wikipedia, and I wanted to seek your guidance on an article I just completed for Valley View (Romney, West Virginia). I was wondering if you could give it a sanity check when you get a chance, and provide me with any feedback. You did such an amazing job improving the article for Fort Van Meter (Hampshire County, West Virginia), that it is only natural that I seek your guidance on this NRHP listing. Thanks again! -- Caponer (talk) 23:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Just saw your message today.... Thanks for the kind words! I looked the article over! Strong work! I was curious why you didn't include a photo of the front elevation at least. (The ones in the NPS document are supposed to be in the public domain.) My only other comment would be that with so much text & detail, it may be a case of TMI. Most readers my not have such a strong interest in all the genealogical minutiae and the fate of various lot numbers. But I'm sure that many of my edits over the years are susceptible to the same sort of observation!! Thanks again & happy editing! Valerius Tygart (talk) 20:25, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's no problem at all, VT! I check my inbox very infrequently, so I'm happy you saw my message when you did! I thought I had taken a photo of Valley View in the past, but I couldn't seem to locate it in my records, so I'll have to head back to West Virginia to photograph it in the near future. I'd faced some criticism in the past from reviewers for using the images in the NPS forms, so I may refrain in this case, even though I definitely understand them to be fair game as they are U.S. government records! Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions! I'll see if I can pare down the Harmison section some in the meantime, too. Thanks again for your review! -- Caponer (talk) 03:30, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Former United States Army medical facilities


A tag has been placed on Category:Former United States Army medical facilities requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for four days or more and it is not presently under discussion at Categories for discussion, or at disambiguation categories.

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Re: Template:U.S. biological defense
Come on now, you can't possibly have thought that ambiguous acronyms like CDC, HHS, and DOD were links to specific articles, rather than disambiguation pages, can you? I think you're smarter than that. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:30, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No, but it's also true that I can only do one thing at a time & that they're now long since fixed! Can I not even have a few hours grace? ;-) Valerius Tygart (talk) 20:06, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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Joseph H. Diss Debar
Hey Valerius, I wanted to congratulate you on crafting such a wonderful article for Mr. Joseph H. Diss Debar. You should definitely nominate this article for Did you know--it's a perfect candidate! As always, I appreciate and enjoy all your contributions to articles for West Virginia-related subjects! -- Caponer (talk) 00:21, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You flatter me....Oh, stop! Valerius Tygart (talk) 14:25, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It's all true! Seriously though, it's a great article and the perfect nominee for Did you know. Let me know if you need any assistance with the nomination! -- Caponer (talk) 11:55, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

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Merger discussion for Fee tail
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Links
Per WP:MEDMOS we do not typically have see also sections. Adding links to an article you have created to multiple articles is often not approved of. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:38, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, dear me.... Remind me to fret about it for awhile.... Valerius Tygart (talk) 15:39, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Political views of H.G. Wells
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 * Any copyright violations would have been present in the original article (H.G. Wells). I can't vouch for that. Valerius Tygart (talk) 17:46, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

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April/May 2015: Dougweller dispute
When adding links to material on external sites, as you did to Jim Channon, please ensure that the external site is not violating the creator's copyright. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website's operator has created or licensed the work. Knowingly directing others to a site that violates copyright may be considered contributory infringement. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates its creator's copyright. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. If you believe the linked site is not violating copyright with respect to the material, then you should do one of the following:
 * If the linked site is the copyright holder, leave a message explaining the details on the article Talk page;
 * If a note on the linked site credibly claims permission to host the material, or a note on the copyright holder's site grants such permission, leave a note on the article Talk page with a link to where we can find that note;
 * If you are the copyright holder or the external site administrator, adjust the linked site to indicate permission as above and leave a note on the article Talk page;

If the material is available on a different site that satisfies one of the above conditions, link to that site instead. ''The YouTube link is to a copyvio copy of a tv production. If you read my edit summary you would have noticed that. Please don't replace it. Thanks.'' Dougweller (talk) 21:03, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Self-appointed policemen always amuse me. Get over yourself.... Valerius Tygart (talk) 17:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Not self-appointed actually. I've been through two elections for two of my roles. But anyone can and should let you know that you shouldn't add copyvio links. I did sort out the issue at Political views of H.G. Wells. The material that you copied was not copyvio as the link that was thought to be the origin is actually a copy of our text in Wells's article. However, whenever you copy material to a new article you should put a wikilink to the original either in the edit summary or on the talk page, as without those it is copyvio. Dougweller (talk) 18:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Nope, sorry. Still amused.... ;-) Valerius Tygart (talk) 16:40, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * That's your choice, but thanks for confirming that you are Dougweller (talk) 18:23, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Never denied it, Dougie. And you never asked. What are you implying? I've been posting this userbox on my userpage for years: ""

Suggest you move on to something/someone more productive... Valerius Tygart (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Note left on your IP page about use of sources, OR, etc:


 * As you may not read that page I'm letting you know I've left a note there. That and related articles have been on my watchlist for years, long before I encountered your IP and your account edits. Dougweller (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * For any disputes you wish to raise, please use the talk page of the article in question so that other interested editors can participate. Otherwise it looks like a personal issue between you & me & I'm not interested in that... Valerius Tygart (talk) 15:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Clearly it isn't personal as I'm not the only editor concerned. If you wish to defend your edits, you can raise your issues there yourself. It's often a good idea to post to both article talk page and editor's talk pages. Posts to your talk page aren't particularly personal, talk pages are there for communication between editors on article issues as well as any other reasons. Dougweller (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the stunningly basic lecture on Wikipedia 101. Keep it up. You're really convincing me it's not personal... Valerius Tygart (talk) 19:36, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Copyvio links

When adding links to material on external sites, as you did to The Men Who Stare at Goats, you need to make sure that the external site is not violating the creator's copyright. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website's operator has created or licensed the work. Knowingly directing others to a site that violates copyright may be considered contributory infringement. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates its creator's copyright. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Your links were not to the official Channel 4 website, so were copyvio links and removed by xbot. Dougweller (talk) 20:38, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Indicating that a documentary film source is available on YouTube (or elsewhere online) is not a copyright vio or violation of Wikipedia policy. Unless you can show me that it is one of these, I will continue to feel free to indicate "available on YouTube", etc, in citation notes, where appropriate. Valerius Tygart (talk) 17:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Continuing to add original research:

You continue to add " (This was the Stargate Project, although Ronson never refers to it by name.)". As so far you haven't been able to source this, it seems obvious that it is original research. Dougweller (talk) 20:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * As I explained on the article's talk page -- which I politely asked you to take all this business to -- it is NOT "obvious that it is original research". Let me draw you an analogy. Say, for example, that a book writer describes a US president who made a famous trip to China & opened up relations between the US & China for all time. But he never mentions the name "Nixon". Say, then, that I want to summarize the book's contents on Wikipedia. I write that the author describes Nixon's big trip to China, but also note that he does not mention Nixon by name. I think Wikipedia readers who are seeking info about the book in a summary might want to know that. I have linked the article with the Nixon article. Is this original research? To me it's obviously not. I am simply stating an obvious truth which can be easily verified in widely available sources, and even by the simple expedient of reading about Nixon's trip on his Wikipedia article which I have linked to. Now, if someone disputes that Nixon was the one that went to China, or claims that a different president went, or if the author is himself raising doubts, then that is different. But if it is perfectly clear that the author means Nixon -- as it is perfectly clear that Ronson is writing about the Stargate Project -- then there should be no controversy. And no accusation of "original research". Believe me, I am too busy to do actual original research these days (although, thanks for the complement). All I do is summarize secondary sources and link articles. Valerius Tygart (talk) 19:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

repeated violations of our no original research policy

The statement "(This was the Stargate Project, although Ronson never refers to it by name.)" is unsourced and presumably your personal observation and opinion. If you read WP:NOR "Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves." Dougweller (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * This is silly. We clearly differ in our interpretation of WP:NOR, and you have not made a case that seems at all convincing to me. The statement is not my "personal observation and opinion". And it is not OR. It is a fact that I have included in the synopsis of the book. What is my source for the statement that the Stargate Project is not mentioned by name in the book? It is the book, The Men Who Stare at Goats, passim. Put the reference in yourself if you like. Valerius Tygart (talk) 19:16, 5 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Please don't move my comments around, and don't change my section headings. I've brought this up at WP:NORN as I don't see much chance I can convince you. Dougweller (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Dougweller, I didn't change your section heading. I simply moved your commments back to the pre-existing section that you already started. Please don't move them back. And please don't issue rude commands to me on my own talk page. Valerius Tygart (talk) 13:52, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

You've reverted 3 times now

You know about WP:3RR. You've reverted 3 times now (your first edit today was a revert. And I'm sure you know that there are few exceptions to the 3RR rule, none of which your edits meet. Dougweller (talk) 20:31, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually you have reverted me (more than) 3 times yourself... Valerius Tygart (talk) 20:39, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Not in 24 hours. And you should know how 3RR works by now. Plus of course it's not just me, you've been reverted by 4 editors. Dougweller (talk) 10:14, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I'm the one being reverted. Not the one reverting. (And, as it happens, reverted for perfectly accurate & relevant edits. As you have recently (tacitly) admitted.) Valerius Tygart (talk) 13:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You addded material that someone thought shouldn't be in the article and someone reverted you. Then you reverted them. My reversions were of unsourced material and of bad sources. In the end you could find a decent source saying the book was about Stargate, but you didn't find a source for the claim that Ronson didn't mention Stargate. And you reinserted self-published material and a fringe book as sources. There were five people reverting, and four of us disagreed with you, the fifth person reverting. But you must know all that as you've got a short block for creating sock to get around 3RR. Dougweller (talk) 14:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Dougweller, if your main purpose is to scold me & make derogatory remarks, as opposed to constructively helping to make an article better, please cease & desist now. Your accusation that I created a sock is particularly vile, and untrue. (And you know better.) Please stop fouling my talk page with your vitriol. Take any comments to other sites, you are not wanted here. I'm beginning to think you may have a serious problem. Valerius Tygart (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No, that's not my purpose. I only came here because of your copyvio link - your responses since then, including refactoring my comments, speak for themselves. I would humbly apologise if I was wrong about the sock puppetry, but I have a hard time reading Sockpuppet investigations/Valerius Tygart/Archive any other way. Dougweller (talk) 15:15, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Meant to add that I really would not have responded were it not for your attack on me and denial of the socking. I don't want to get drawn back to your page but I can't ignore comments like that. And I did say you were only given a short block. Dougweller (talk) 15:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No, not even a short one. Valerius Tygart (talk) 15:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Why do you say no block? "03:07, 19 November 2009 Abecedare (talk | contribs | block) blocked Valerius Tygart (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 31 hours (account creation blocked) (Abusing multiple accounts: + at Bill Maher and other articles; SPI confirmed". Dougweller (talk) 17:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

You dug up edits from 6 years ago?!? That's the "block" you've been yammering on about?!? Now I know you are a creep! Please — at long last — cease & desist! Valerius Tygart (talk) 18:10, 8 May 2015 (UTC)