User talk:Valherum

Men's Rights
masculinist: "an advocate of male superiority or dominance" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/masculinistCountered (talk) 02:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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1) That seems to be a counter-productive definition of masculinist. It would seem a fairly biased source that would define "feminism" as "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes" while it describes masculinism as "an advocate of male superiority or dominance".  The words masculine and feminine obviously are just references to gender-linked characteristics, so to take it a step further and say that feminism = equality while masculinism = dominance seems disingenuous at best when just by breaking down the words you can easily see that they are just gendered versions of the exact same concept.  A much more accurate definition of masculinism can be found here:

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/masculinist

2) Let's just assume for the sake of argument that your Mirriam definition of masculinism is true. Using that definition, obviously some masculinists would be advocates for men's rights, but not all men's rights advocates would be masculinists. Take me for instance.  I am a men's rights advocate, but that doesn't mean that I am against women's rights in any way, nor do I want to be superior. I simply refuse to be anything less than equal. If you talk to many MRA's, you'll find that most are in favor of egalitarianism.

3) The original topic wasn't even about masculinism. It was about men's rights.  Therefore, you finding a debatably biased definition of a word that has nothing to do with the topic at hand does not lend any credibility to your assertion that men's rights advocates favor superiority or dominance.  My edit stands. Valherum (talk) 03:33, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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I guess dictionary definitions don't real? Wouldn't you say that there is a "masculinist" sub-set which is a part of the men's right's movement? Ok, so maybe I made a blanket statement, I think it's pretty accurate considering how many MRAs are anti-feminists, who also think that women have already achieved equality, or never needed to achieve equality in the first place. And FYI, I'm not a she, not that it matters or anything, but you guys love misgendering me. It must blow your mind that a man disagrees with you so completely. Countered (talk) 06:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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Perhaps you aren't aware that there is more than just one dictionary, which is why I provided you a link to another dictionary with a more accurate definition. Again, if you're being intellectually honest, all you have to do is part out the actual words to see that they are opposite sides (genders) of the same coin. Just because something appears in one dictionary doesnt make it the ultimate definition of a word, especially if multiple dictionaries disagree on the meaning. In Mirriam's case, the editorial staff was clearly gender biased. In any case, since we disagree on the definition of masculinist, if I once again use your definition for the sake of argument, of course I would agree (and already have, if you actually read my last post) that there are people who call themselves MRAs who want positions of superiority and dominance over women. There are bad apples in any group, feminists included. Again, they represent a very small subset of the movement as a whole, as the movement is concerned with making sure that men's rights are protected, and not in trying to weaken the rights or social standings of women in any way. It isn't a zero-sum game.

As well, where are you getting your information that MRAs "think that women have already achieved equality, or never needed to achieve equality in the first place"? Again, most MRAs are supportive of womens rights as long as those rights are afforded to both sexes equally. The only feminists that most MRAs have a problem with are the ones who seek not equality, but female privilege.

As for your gender, how is that relevant? Man or woman, you are clearly misrepresenting the men's rights movement by defacing the pages that show what we represent. Perhaps many assume you are female because the primary perpetrators of such tactics are women. Either way, it makes no difference. The outcome is the same. Valherum (talk) 06:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC)