User talk:Vangervenoei

Hello there
Hello Mr. van Gerven Oei, nice to have another fellow Wikipedian knowledgable in Nubia! Looking forward to more of your edits to come.

PS: The design of your user page seems suspiciously familar to me :) LeGabrie (talk) 09:25, 23 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Yes, I'll try to improve on the Old Nubian language wiki in the coming weeks. A lot of new research has come out in recent years that can be incorporated. I hope you're ok with me ripping off your user page design! :) Vangervenoei (talk) 13:55, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Great! I assume that you own many photos of Nubian documents and wall paintings? Perhaps you want to upload some of them on Wikimedia Commons? We really need more of them here, easily available for the people. LeGabrie (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, in fact this was also in my plans, but I need to go through my archives and see what I can release in the public domain. Please give me some time as the conference season has broken out. Later this summer I should have more time to sort through things. Vangervenoei (talk) 15:03, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Southern Nubia
Hey, it's me again. I actually have two questions: for one, I coincidently saw that you will keep a presentation at the "International Conference for Nubian Studies", called "Alwan Nubian and Alphabetic Writing in the Medieval Sudan". Alwa/Alodia is the Nubian kingdom I am the most into, so I am wondering: what interesting perceptions do you have to reveal there (if that's no secret as of yet)? Second, may I ask what you think about my entries for Alodia and the Kingdom of Fazughli? Greetings, LeGabrie (talk) 21:17, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes that's correct. I think the entries on Alodia and the Kingdom of Fazughli are great, at least they provide me with a lot of info! :) For Paris, I'll try to make some sense of the memorial that was found together with the incense burner in Soba. I know very little of the historical aspects (I'm a linguist), but it appears from the memorial that Alwa received its literacy not through the Coptic Monastery environment (like Nobadia/Makuria) but through Axum. Evidence for this appears to be the lack of Coptic letters in Alwan writing. Furthermore, some of these letters appear in inscriptions in Sonqi Tino. So this seems to prove also some contact between the Nubian kingdoms. PS Still planning to expand Old Nubian once I am close to finishing the grammar. Best, Vangervenoei (talk) 10:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

"it appears from the memorial that Alwa received its literacy not through the Coptic Monastery environment (like Nobadia/Makuria) but through Axum. Evidence for this appears to be the lack of Coptic letters in Alwan writing." So the Alodian script contains Ge'ez or Ge'ez-inspired letters? That Coptic was less relevant for Alodia than for Nobatia/Makuria makes sense, just because of the sheer distance. Meanwhile Aksum was more or less a direct neighbour of Alodia (if we assume that Alodia already controlled the Butana and parts of the Red Sea shore before the 10th century).

"So this seems to prove also some contact between the Nubian kingdoms." There almost certainly was. Here a part from "Alwan art. Towards an insight into the aesthetics of the Kingdom of Alwa through the painted pottery decoration" by Katarzyna Danys and Dobrochna Zielińska, p. 184:

"Włodzimierz Godlewski has suggested that the new type of crown that can be observed in the representations of Makurian rulers from the 11th century was derived from Alwan court (Godlewski 2008, 273-74). Could this suggest the strong (if not dominant) position of the Kingdom of Alwa? Following this path, together with the possible, even personal relations of the royal families of Makuria and Alwa, and on the other hand the apparent influence of Makurian architecture and stone decoration in Alwa, can we link the disappearance of the Soba Ware with the decline of the Aksumite state in the 8th century AD, and by the then stronger influx of influences from the Kingdom of Makuria?"

If you want I can send you the whole paper. LeGabrie (talk) 14:39, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The letter forms are not Ge'ez, but certainly not Coptic. At least some appear Meroitic. Yes, please do send me the article, that would be very helpful. Thanks! Vangervenoei (talk) 14:54, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qLnuDx1EVdusVtS6uCxYCaajBTpYCUbo/view?usp=sharing LeGabrie (talk) 15:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot! Vangervenoei (talk) 15:21, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

I have a request: when you present "Alwan Nubian and Alphabetic Writing in the Medieval Sudan" at the Nubian conference in September, can you maybe record it and put it on Youtube? That way I could already quote your theories before they are published as a paper in the conference book, which would take a year or more to publish, I would guess. Ah, and if you want further material considering Alodia please let me know! LeGabrie (talk) 16:36, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I think I can send you the lecture + slideshow afterward, I am not sure how the recording options will be there. Vangervenoei (talk) 14:55, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Alternatively you could also write another post for Tsakos "Medieval Sai Project", that way I could quote it for my Alodia entry. By the way, I initially wanted to include this in the Nubian languages entry myself, but didn't want to touch your work: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3171817 A Nubian language spoken upstream of Dongolawi territory as late as the 19th century. LeGabrie (talk) 16:17, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Any news? LeGabrie (talk) 12:29, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I've been completely out of it. I can send you my lecture, but it is not going to appear in written form anywhere soon. Vangervenoei (talk) 11:42, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Sending me your lecture would be very kind. You can use this e-mail: gabriel-gerhards@gmx.de LeGabrie (talk) 12:36, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Biblioteka Art & Politikë (book series) moved to draftspace
Thanks for your contributions to Biblioteka Art & Politikë. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs more sources to establish notability and those sources should be reliable and independent. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 12:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)