User talk:Vanisaac/Archive3

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Files for deletion
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Please comment on Talk:Minimal pair
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Please comment on Template talk:LSR
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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)
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Hello
Apparently, when you closed a RfC on WT:MMANOT you accidentally closed five other discussions below. Can you please revert this? regards —  Poison  Whiskey  15:30, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops. Thanks. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 15:31, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems that I missed an opening bracket on the template. Got it fixed now. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 15:33, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. You're welcome.  Poison  Whiskey  15:37, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Michael Szilágyi
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BIDI control characters
Hi Vanisaac,

Invisible characters cause problems for editing. It looks like at In Aménas nothing is needed for proper display, but when it is,  or Rtl-lang can be used. — kwami (talk) 20:25, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm. It was showing up as "Aménas In" when I checked it out. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 04:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Pronunciation
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Please comment on Talk:Neuro-linguistic programming
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Please comment on Category talk:French novels
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Please comment on Talk:Neuro-linguistic programming
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Tibetan Braille01.jpg
Hi,

We use this as a reference at Tibetan Braille. However, the reader has no way of verifying it. Could you upload it, so we can embed it in or link it from the article? Alphabets are not subject to copyright, so unless there's other info or artistic work in the image, that shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks — kwami (talk) 22:23, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I tried to do so at the time, however it was embedded in a PDF that flags the content as ineligible for copying or repurposing - unfortunately, I think, just default flags. I checked at the appropriate board, to see if there was a way to get the content uploaded somehow, and I was told that it was unequivocally no-go, and that the philosophy of WP:V would allow for using non-public sourcing, provided that it never be used in place of, or to impeach a publicly verifiable source. So that's where we are, now. Every couple of months, I go on a web search to see if I can finally get a public, verifiable, secondary coverage of the form of Tibetan Braille, so that I can expunge that private correspondence from the article, so far to no avail. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 23:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

RfC you closed
There was no consensus reached for this RfC, as mentioned by the admin who opened it here. Can you change the description of the RfC result to reflect this? -YMB29 (talk) 23:36, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, he opened it, and expressed the opinion that consensus was lacking, but asked that someone else close the discussion. In contrast to Lord Roem, I found a nucleus of a consensus around "ceasefire" being preferable to "stalemate", and that the Moscow armistice was a result of the outcome of this offensive. Understand that Lord Roem's perspective could very well be constrained a bit by the spirit behind WP:Involved, which may have made him less willing to synthesize vague input to a consensus outcome, where I was somewhat freer to look a bit deeper. I will freely admit that my goal is always to try to find the nuggets of commonality, in order to move forward, and if you believe that my closure read too much into the discussion, I would be happy to get further input from a closure review. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 00:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Lord Roem was the mediator in this mediation and started the RfC to try to resolve the dispute.
 * One of the reasons the mediation was closed is because there was no consensus. If there was, we could have continued the mediation. -YMB29 (talk) 00:34, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I closed the RfC in compliance with guidelines for closing RfCs, the form of this particular RfC, and the form of the WP:ANRFC request. If there are other considerations that need to be taken into account due to mediation, which were not explicitly listed, but nevertheless pertinent, then they are under the discretion of the mediator alone, and I would defer to alterations of standard procedure as Lord Roem deems necessary, and, of course, the results of a closure review. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 08:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style
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Please comment on Template talk:LSR
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Please comment on Talk:Traditional marriage
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File source problem with File:Bassa Tawh.png
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File source problem with File:Latin Letter K with stroke.png
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Spelling
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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)
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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates
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Please comment on MediaWiki talk:Bad image list
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Please comment on File talk:Map on Dialects Of Punjabi Language.jpg
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Unicode block stubs
These stubs begin is a unicode block. If you create any more of these stubs, please capitalize “Unicode”. Gorobay (talk) 14:10, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * ??? VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 18:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You have recently been creating articles about Unicode blocks, no? The first sentence of Brahmi (Unicode block) (for example) begins “Brahmi is a unicode block”. “Unicode” is a proper noun, so it should be capitalized. I am requesting that, in the future, you capitalize “Unicode” (e.g. “Brahmi is a Unicode block”). Gorobay (talk) 19:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'm parsing it as a common adjective, not a proper noun in that context, and the target article doesn't clarify the usage. I'll have to delve into the MOS. Thanks for the attention. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 19:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * See WP:NAMECAPS. Gorobay (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty well versed in the MOS, but I've put in a request for feedback on the MOS:CAPS talk page, so hopefully I'll get perspective from some people better versed in the nuances and history of the capitalization policy. I'll give it a couple days and then go through and fix it all if they think I'm crazy to consider "unicode" a common adjective - I've got AWB, so it'll be no trouble changing. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 23:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking at this closer, I think you're right. My perception isn't looking internally consistent as I continue thinking about it, so I'll change those guys around. Again, thanks for bringing it up. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 02:46, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Ecologytheta.svg missing description details
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Ugaritic (Unicode block)
If someone was trying to reconstruct something, then they achieved extremely poor results, since the Unicode character names are a strange garbled anachronistic mishmash, with letter names taken straight from the Greek of 500 years or more afterwards (beta, delta, lamda), from the Arabic of 2000 or more years afterwards (dhal, ghain), and others apparently taken from Albright's old attempted decipherment of Proto-Sinaitic (not too widely accepted) or I don't know what, but looking very strange... AnonMoos (talk) 06:19, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, filling in on what is actually said in chapter 14 about how they named the Ugaritic characters, and knowing the people and the care that the UTC and WG2 both put in to reviewing proposals, I would bet that the unattested names are the Ugarit pronunciation of same things the Phoenician letters were named after: (if memory serves) "alpa" = ox, "beta" = house, "gamla" = camel, etc. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 06:32, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I bet they're actually not -- the a vowel ending seems to reflect the Aramaic "emphatic state" (definite article) suffix, which was irrelevant to Ugaritic. I really don't see any extraordinary "care" there (more like a strange garbled anachronistic mishmash taken from Greek, Arabic, an extrapolation of Albright's more or less unsuccessful decipherment of proto-Sinaitic, and a fourth source which I can't identify, but the use of which does not seem to have led to any very acceptable result); in any case, the file http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.2.0/ch14.pdf doesn't open in any PDF reader I have on my computer, so I don't know what's inside... AnonMoos (talk) 06:46, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, what you have written there right now directly contradicts what it says, so find a source. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 07:14, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The only reason I wanted to mention character names on that article at all was to gently indicate that the names in the standard are fine for identifying code points in a computation standard, but are completely and utterly worthless for any linguistic or philological work on the Ugaritic language itself in any academically-respectable journal concerned with ancient languages. Recapitulating the Unicode standard's praises of itself is not too helpful in this context... AnonMoos (talk) 01:49, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

WikiThanks
Thank you for answer.--Ворота рая Импресариата (talk) 08:53, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No проблема. I ran into the exact same thing about a month ago when I was coding the Wplink family of templates, so it was still fresh on my mind. Удачи. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 09:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Inactive WikiProject banner
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Disambiguation link notification for April 2
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 * Georgian (Unicode block) (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Autopatrolled
Hi Vanisaac, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the autopatrolled right to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! INeverCry  23:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly, sir. I figured that my penchant for bouts of grand projects was bound to just be inconvenient for new page patrolers, so it was for the best that I'm not clogging up that system. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 23:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)
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Please comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikidata Phase 2
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CJK Unified characters pages
Please see my response at WP:ANI, and keep in mind that I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. Nyttend (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Dravidian languages
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Service awards and copyright
Hi Vanisaac, just wanted to let you know I on one of your service award images. I hope this is OK; I just want to be really sure there is no copyright threat to our WikiSOO Burba Badge! Thanks, -Pete (talk) 21:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. I must admit I was a little confused about whose work was involved in that particular image; I know Herostratus (who I also alerted) created it, but was not sure from the discussion whether you had created an earlier version of which his was a derivative. I will ask him again. -Pete (talk) 20:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Words to watch
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Vyborg–Petrozavodsk Offensive RfC
I am not pushing any result. The mediation was closed in part because the RfC failed to get enough feedback and consensus, and it was suggested to start another RfC later. So it makes sense that this RfC should have "no consensus" for the result. I understand that you tried to formulate the result not knowing about the mediation. This is really the fault of the mediator who should have closed the RfC himself. Can you change it, because it looks like no one wants to take a look at it? -YMB29 (talk) 23:24, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * First, you can always hold an RfC. You don't need permission - you are under mediation, so you should run it by the mediator first, though - you don't need new information, you don't need anything more than wanting to ask the community for input on an issue. However, the status quo before the RfC is the default position, so your job is a little different: it's to present a case that the current state is unsatisfactory in some way. You have indicated that the current state of the article is ahistoric, and I think that's a perfectly valid basis for a new RfC. Say that you believe X in the article is not historically accurate, and that you think it should be changed to Y. If people agree, then it will get changed.
 * As a general rule, the presence of mediation is actually immaterial RfC closures, although the specifics of a particular mediation may impact the conduct of RfCs under its purview. What I have said before, and will continue to say into the future is that if (and only if) the mediator says to me that the conduct of that RfC were undertaken with an altered standard of consensus, then I would be able to review the closure on the basis of that novel standard. If I were to go back right now without a change in procedure or standard of consensus - as this matter has continued to crop back up, I do actually go back and read the comments to see if I would still close the same - I would still have to close it substantively the same as I did before. Unfortunately, I've never been told that the RfC was conducted under any conditions but the normal standards for closure, so you're basically asking me to lie and say that I came to a conclusion that is, in fact, imposed from outside of me. That's intellectual dishonesty - an act that is highly proscribed in my cultural background. So until I have a basis for reconceiving and reevaluating the actual substance of the RfC, I can't change its outcome. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:11, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This is ridiculous. No one is asking you to lie or go against your "cultural background"...
 * The RfC was specifically opened for the mediation, but because the mediator did not close it himself, there is now a contradiction. Your opinion differs from those of the mediation participants.
 * RfCs usually have lots of feedback and it is clear what position each user supports. This was not the case for this RfC. You took it upon yourself to come up with the RfC result based on the limited and contradictory responses. So the result represents your opinion (based on your interpretation of the comments) more than the views of those who responded.
 * It is not like there was an obvious consensus and we agreed in the mediation to alter it.
 * Also, the mediator did say to those who were going to close the RfC that there was no consensus. -YMB29 (talk) 16:10, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Pepsi
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Chōonpu
Hi! Sorry, but I undid your edit. The use of "ー" in katakana is only applied to gairaigo, foreign names, some onomatopoeia and some exceptions of ja words. See ja:長音符. This page says "つまり，チュウハイは仮名遣いとしては正しいが，実際の発音はチューハイの方が近いということになります. 同じことはケイタイとケータイにもいえます. つまり，ケイタイは仮名遣いとしては正しいが，実際の発音はケータイの方が近いということになります. ". See also this, it's not RS though. 東京 is トウキョウ, but Little Tokyo, Los Angeles is リトル・トーキョー because it is a foreign place name. Can you explain why the article title of ja:サクラソウ is not "サクラソー"? Please provide RS, if you still think 東京 is トーキョー in katakana. Regards. Oda Mari (talk) 16:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Unicode charts
I got an admin to move the extension C and D charts so that their titles are now in the same format as the one for Extension A, which I think is what we all agreed on. That leaves the problem of extension B. Those charts are currently in the format "List of CJK Unified Ideographs, Extension B (Part [x] of 7)". Kauffner (talk) 07:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that's the right format for both the original CJK ideographs block, and Extension B. They are both too large for a template page that would be transcluded - although it looks like somebody is trying to crash computers with an Extension B template - so it's simply content that needs a place where it can be linked to. Since it's content, but not really transcludable, article space is the proper location, and the "List of" pages are good, unambiguous names. The block articles CJK Unified Ideographs (Unicode block) and CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B currently link to them. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 08:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sure no-one has any intention of deliberately crashing computers with Template:Unicode chart CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B (and I have no problem displaying it with IE or Chrome on W7), and although I agree that it may be too long and slow to load for some computers, and it should not have been transcluded in CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B‎, it may be useful for some users, and so perhaps a link to it (with a warning) at the bottom of CJK Unified Ideographs Extension B‎ would be useful. (Again I bemoan the fact that there is not a single discussion page for Unicode chart templates, and that the discussion has to take part on user talk pages.) BabelStone (talk) 09:27, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've said before that I believe that wikiprojects Writing systems and Computing should have a joint task force on Unicode/code pages, and a centralized place for their discussion. I continue to believe that this would probably be a good thing, and recent events have only strengthened my opinion. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 13:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

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Activated debates
Hi Vanisaac. I invite you to feedback on my views in Talk:List of names in English with counterintuitive pronunciations, I'm encouraging all involved since January to do so. Adam37 (talk) 10:35, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

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Question
You wrote "This is an opportunity for the community to not have to deal with an editor who just plain doesn't get it" at WP:AN. Just what is it that you think that I do not get?


 * I follow all policies and guidelines.


 * I contribute significantly to the project.


 * I fix thousands of errors and make thousands of improvements to articles.


 * I discuss proposed changes and work to build consensus.


 * I have created over a hundred articles from scratch.


 * If there is something else to "get" I would certainly like to be clued in as to which policy or guideline I have missed somewhere along the line.

You do realize, I hope, that I have already been under a very bizarre and obscure topic ban for six months which has resulted in my not being able to make thousands of corrections and improvements that I otherwise would have been able to make. Who benefits from those improvements and corrections not being made? No one. Who loses from those not being made? All of us. Why if the sanctions are not benefiting anyone and are hurting all of us would you want them to continue? Please let me know, because if there is a reason, I am certainly not aware of what it is. This is an encyclopedia, and if it contains errors, that is a problem. If it is missing information, or has misinformation, that is a problem. What I can do is help provide that missing and erroneous information, but there is much that I can not do while the sanctions are in effect. So what is it exactly that benefits us from these sanctions? Apteva (talk) 10:44, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The big problem with your interactions with just about everyone, including on WP:AN, is that you don't respect judgement of the community of editors, and that's not how it works here. Because, we have all of these policies and guidelines, and the realization that you need to come to is that policies and guidelines are fundamentally not how we build the encyclopedia, they are just how we discuss building the encyclopedia. The way that we build the encyclopedia is through consensus. Sure, there are a couple of legal matters (BLP, copyright, etc.) that break the mold, but in the end, what ends up in articles, templates, and files is a reflection of what consensus says should be there, rather than a legalistic reading of policy. In the end, even if you are 100% right that policy says an article should have something, if the editors discussing that article say that it shouldn't, you were wrong. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 21:32, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That is true, we write our policies and guidelines as an aid to writing articles, not as a blueprint for those articles. Of the 3200 active editors we have, there are 3200 different points of view, level of expertise, and interest. We work together to figure out what is best for the articles. We do get it wrong sometimes, and need to be always willing to re-examine even long standing conventions. We just do not like having to re-discuss them very often. All that I understand and adhere to. Apteva (talk) 23:31, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you actually understood and adhered to this, you never would have been sanctioned in the first place. Your actions and interactions say otherwise. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 05:58, 24 July 2013 (UTC)