User talk:VanishedUser 2313214sad1/Archives/2014/January

MOTD's Barnstar 2013

 * Thanks Pjoef  Ross Hill   Talk to me!  03:24, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Straw man
Hey, Juzumaru seems to be somewhat more willing to listen to you than to the rest of us. Can you explain to him that no one is saying tge article should read "Okura was Korean"? I have been saying since day 1 that we should "teach the controversy", and this isn't even my POV. 182.249.240.21 (talk) 03:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * He isn't really willing to listen. I would take it to WP:DRN if I were you. Ross Hill   Talk to me!  21:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Something like 90% of DRN cases fail. In this case, I know in advance exactly why a DRN case on this issue would fail. Juzumaru won't listen to me or anyone else, even though I have already thoroughly disproven his claims several times. He hasn't edited a single article, either here or on ja.wiki, since he started arguing with me. He's clearly only here to promote a racially-motivated political agenda and fight vehemently to defend it, and that's why he belongs on ANI, not DRN. By the way, just above here he deliberately misrepresented works by Donald Keene (who clearly was referring only to the language Okura used; he earlier gave the toraijin theory plenty of credence) and (a 50-year-old book by) Nakanishi (no historical theory has ever been "proven" conclusively; that's simply not how history works). I know I said I was done with him, but that was after he promised to stay on ja.wiki and leave me alone, and before he started trying to canvas you into supporting his view directly above... I really wish he would just see what's coming... 182.249.240.12 (talk) 02:26, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year!


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 Jianhui67 talk ★ contribs 09:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jianhui67. Happy 2014 . Ross Hill   Talk to me!  17:09, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year :D

 * Same to you, Newyorkadam . Ross Hill   Talk to me!  20:52, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Non-free content
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Please help me
My name is Juzumaru. I was accused of charges of "far-right" in the admin board from anonymous users (182.249.240.xxx）. And, I moved to Japan language version Wikipedia from the English Wikipedia by your advice. However, even after I moved to the Japanese version, I have been stalking the anonymous user.（182.249.240.xxx） Will you persuade him so that this anonymous user does not approach me? --Juzumaru (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Regards, Ross Hill   Talk to me!  04:13, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Read WP:HARASSMENT. ///Euro Car  GT  05:05, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. This IP user is requesting a block of me in the Japanese version of Wikipedia. I am considering to re-create the account. --Juzumaru (talk) 06:56, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked into this situation enough yet, but I'll have a reply for you by tonight. Best regards, Ross Hill   Talk to me!  13:11, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Please ignore (Redacted). He posted more personal attacks against me on his talk page on ja.wiki, and when I called him out on it he started altering my comments, and SOME OTHER IP USER reported on him (my IP range is blocked on ja.wiki, hence the creation of an account). This user has continued making ridiculous accusations of stalking against me (I reverted him on two articles, both of which cases he had reverted me first) and is now going out of his way to cause more trouble for me here. I would appreciate some advice on dealing with this user's disingenuous attacks and harassment... 182.249.240.2 (talk) 09:47, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Name calling won't get you anywhere, 182. Ross Hill   Talk to me!  13:11, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Then is there any chance you could also redact the part above where he calls me a stalker? I'm sorry to use the J-word, but he has been calling me names and making unsubstantiated claims from the beginning. I'm not sure how your Japanese ability is, but unless you can read Japanese, it's pretty clear Juzumaru expects you to just take his word for it. All of my semi-intelligible interactions with him in the last 4 days or so have been in a language User:Oda Mari and User:Canterbury Tail clearly speak. I have to wonder why of all the users Juzumaru thinks "support" him "against" me (he has said as much numerous times in the last few days) he chose to contact you and only you. Maybe he thinks you can't read Japanese and will be more susceptible?? 182.249.240.31 (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Basically you all need to stop, this is getting out of hand. I've read the Ja:WP:AN/I over at the Japanese Wikipedia and it seems like you all got your points, however just stop, you all are not going to get any further. Stop targeting each other and if you disagree it each other, take it to the talk pages and see what the community could do. Asking an admin to block someone because you disagree with someone is not being WP:BOLD and being WP:CIVIL. You all are bringing edit wars and not appropriately contributing to any Wikipedia. If you are going to something wrong or you don't know simply don't do it. ///Euro Car  GT  16:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry for the trouble. 182.249.240.xxx is also an ugly customer to deal with. I provide Juzumaru to his Sandbach. I have to stop editing from December 24. And it will continue. --Juzumaru (talk) 02:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in answering. It was hard to find out all the details of this situation due to the use of Japanese, which, as 182 guessed, is not my native language. First I think everyone, including Juzumaru should read WP:EYNTK. It is a user-essay that explains English-Wikipedia policies.


 * believes the Japanese poet Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent.
 * (alt account: ) believes Yamanoue no Okura is Korean.
 * 182, you have said the Britannica and other encyclopedias have supported your claim. May I have links please?
 * Juzumaru Simply citing sources that don't explicitly support a claim, don't invalidate sources that do.
 * Source 1 says A & B
 * Source 2 just says A.
 * You cannot use source 2 to disprove B.
 * By the same logic, if:
 * Source 1 says Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent, and is Korean.
 * Source 2 just says Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent.
 * You cannot use source 2 to show that Yamanoue no Okura is not Korean. The two claims are not mutually exclusive.


 * We need to work together. Name calling, and claiming stalking is not productive, and will only lead to more trouble. If you two keep disagreeing, please seek dispute resolution. Best regards, Ross Hill   Talk to me!  03:53, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Explanation of Juzumaru

 * According to "新選姓氏録(Shinsen Shojiroku)" (Newly Compiled Register of Clan Names and Titles of Nobility), Okura is a distant branch of the imperial family of Japan.（Quote the relevant part "山上朝臣 大春日朝臣同祖、天足彦国忍人命の後 右京皇別下"）Therefore, "Okura is a Japanese" is common sense. Main Japanese encyclopedias are written "Okura is Japanese." And This record is quoted in plural treatises. （Show an example 「類衆歌林」覚え書き 86page 「粟田真人は、文武四年に藤原不比等と共に律令選定を命ぜられており、この頃より不比等とのつながりが窺われよう. また、新選姓氏録などから山上憶良と同族出身である事が推定されるばかりか、大宝元年には憶良と共十分なように恩われる. 」
 * Yamanoue-Okura was a Japanese low-class bureaucrat of the about 7th century. Therefore, his life not recorded in detail. The name of the Okura(憶良) is close to the Chinese style than Japanese style. Therefore, someone claims "Okura is not Japanese. He is immigration."
 * This claim has been denied by Professor Aoki Kazuo experts ancient Japanese history. According to his book (「憶良帰化人説批判（Okura-Kikajin-setsu-Hihan）」, "Okura was given a title of "臣 (Omi)" from the Japanese emperor. The title of "臣" (Omi) is not given to a Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants). Therefore, Okura is not Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants).")
 * Nakanishi Susumu is the scholar who is affirmative in this hypothesis (Okura is a Kikajin (Descendants of foreign immigrants)). However, he admits that this hypothesis can not be proven. According to his description, "Okura's Son (Yamanoue-Funanushi) given a title of "朝臣 (Ason)" from the Japanese emperor. The title of "朝臣 (Ason)" is not given to a Kikajin(foreign immigration). Therefore, Okura is not Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants)." (「朝臣姓を賜った山上船主を憶良の子と推定すれば、憶良の帰化人たらぬことは紛れようもない. 」（I have quoted the book written by Nakanishi Susumu "Soukoku-to-meisou Yamnoue Okura wo Megute (相剋と迷走 - 山上憶良をめぐって)" ）
 * According to American-born Japanese literature scholar Donald Keene, "Okura wrote Kanshi (Chinese style poetry). But the emotion of his poetry is not Sino-Korean, was the spirit of the Japanese." (Quote from an interview with Daniel Keene of the book NHK Daily Manyoshu )
 * Now, there is no treatise which quoted in the affirmative "Okura is a Korean descendants."
 * And famous encyclopedia of Japan ("Nihon Rekishi Jinbutsu Jiten" published by The Asahi Shinbun / Heibonsha World Encyclopedia / "Dainihon Jinmei Jiten" (Dictionary of Japanese Biography) published by The Kodansha / Daijisen published by The Shogakukan / Daijirin) do not describe this hypothesis(Okura is a Korean descendants). --Juzumaru (talk) 10:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * PS. May I copy this conversation to the talk page of Yamanoue Okura? 

(2013/12/31 Update --Juzumaru (talk) 03:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC))


 * Happy New Year! I was enjoying the New Year holiday. if you have any questions on my explanation, Please feel free to ask any questions. By the way, 182 continues to slander me. 182 does not use a user account in Wikipeda. Therefore, I will not be able to know his activities. I want to argue against a trial in absentia by 182.  --Juzumaru (talk) 06:02, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You can add that page to your Watchlist. If you are interested in following my edits so you can revert them out of hand, please see WP:HOUND. And maybe Tsuguharu Foujita. Also, there is a difference between slandering you and adding a reasonable outline of the debate to the article talk page (where the debate would have taken place from the start if you hadn't persisted in edit-warring with me.
 * Anyway Ross Hill, is there any chance you could ask him to stop twisting my words? It doesn't look like he'll listen to me at all... 182.249.240.8 (talk) 10:48, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Explanation of 182

 * Ross Hill, thank you for your analysis. However, I don't "believe" anything about this.
 * I came across an article on a poet who many historians believe to have been born on the Korean Peninsula.
 * I tried to include this information (the fact that modern scholars have come to this belief) in the article and word it as neutrally as possible.
 * I never once said, in the article or on a talk page, that "Okura was Korean".
 * I don't assume to know what Juzumaru believes about 7th-century poets, but he tried consistently to remove the word "Korea" from the explanation. I have told Juzumaru on ja.wiki that I will not interact with him anymore, so this is all I will say. I won't try to rebut his points above.
 * Britannica is, as far as I know, not online, but the 2007 edition of Britannica Kokusai Dai-Hyakkajiten that I have in my electronic dictionary gives his birthplace as "百済？" ("Baekje(?)") The Nihon Koten Bungaku Daijiten gives pretty extensive coverage to the theory (as I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FIncidents%diff=587724753%oldid=587721273 already detailed] on-wiki), but I think it's also offline only. The other encyclopedia is Hyakkajiten MyPedia, which is [//kotobank.jp/word/山上憶良 here]; it states "出自については不明で、百済系渡来人説など諸説がある" ("His ancestry is unknown, and there are various theories such as that he was an immigrant from Baekje."). The most complete, encyclopedic study of classical Japanese literature as a whole is Seeds in the Heart by Donald Keene, and he basically takes the theory as probable.
 * You are unlikely to find any source from the last 30 years that discusses Okura in any detail, that doesn't either accept the theory, mention the theory, or actively argue against the theory. (I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yamanoue_no_Okura&diff=586952440&oldid=579973633 already mentioned] Aoki, who fits into the latter category.)
 * 182.249.240.37 (talk) 14:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, regarding [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FIncidents&diff=588309849&oldid=588309257 this edit]: I think calling this a content dispute is a flawed understanding of what my original complaint was. I posted on ANI because every single one of a certain user's edits demonstrated problematic behaviour, and a political agenda incompatible with the construction of a neutrally worded encyclopedia. 182.249.240.37 (talk) 14:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

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Tech News: 2014-02
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Future software changes
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Waterless Fracking sources
I'm excited to be working with you again, this time on the waterless fracking article :) Here are some sources I found:


 * 1) NPR- Waterless Fracking Makes Headway in Texas, Slowly
 * 2) Time- Waterless Fracking
 * 3) RIGZONE- Fracking Goes Waterless: Gas Fracking Could Silence Critics
 * 4) InsideClimate News- Waterless Fracking: Gas Drilling Game-Changer?
 * 5) this is a direct reference, but it has links to reliable sources
 * 6) Midwest Energy News- Waterless fracking technique makes its debut in Ohio


 * Thanks so much Newyorkadam . I'm making the article at Liquefied petroleum gas fracturing (though I'm open to other options for the title.) Ross Hill   Talk to me!  02:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Why not just Waterless fracturing and have Liquefied petroleum gas fracturing redirect to it? This would allow us to be flexible in discussing all forms of waterless fracking, rather than just one. Thoughts? -Newyorkadam (talk) 02:37, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam

Tech News: 2014-03
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Recent software changes
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DYK for Asus Transformer Book Duet
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Guidance for younger editors
Hi. I noticed that you moved this page recently, on grounds of grammar. When I created the page, I chose the phrase "younger editors" rather than "young editors" quite deliberately. My intent was to try to avoid unnecessary disputes about what ages should be consider "young" or not, and relatedly, to reduce the chances of offending an editor who was referred for guidance to the page: an editor who's a younger minor might not think of himself as "young" in the abstract, but could readily accept that he or she is younger than most other Wikipedians. In any event, I don't think there was any error in grammar under the former title.

I am currently thinking through whether to formally oppose this move or let it go, but I do wish you had raised the title and proposed move on the talkpage first so we could have discussed it. I'd welcome your thoughts now. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey Newyorkbrad, thanks for leaving me a message . I probably could have used a more descriptive summary when moving the page. I thought the title could have been better phrased because the old title used the comparative "younger" to describe the subject "editors" without providing a second noun to compare "editors" to. This is grammatically incorrect in the same way the phrase "We work harder." is incorrect because it does not describe whom the subject is working harder than.
 * Anyhow, I only made the change because I thought it was uncontroversial (removing two letters), and therefore didn't need any discussion prior to it. Perhaps a grammatically correct compromise would be "Guidance for editors who are minors" or similar. Best regards,  Ross Hill   Talk to me!  04:13, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * That wouldn't really help because that's not (specifically) the target audience. (I'm not seeing the grammar error either.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 06:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * To be clear: if there is a comparative (such as younger) it needs at least two things to compare. If there is only the subject then there is a grammar issue. Demiurge1000 What is the target audience? I had assumed it was minors. Ross Hill   Talk to me!  13:51, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, Newyorkbrad I would like to point out that using the word "younger" in the way you described to mean "younger than average" could include a lot more than the target audience. Taking a wild guess that the average age of a Wikipedia is 40 years old, the word younger would describe anyone from 39-0. Ross Hill   Talk to me!  13:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding the grammar point, a comparison can be implied as well as express, and that is the case here. The target audience is just as it was originally stated, "younger editors." More specifically, a particular type of younger editors I've seen many times&mdash;the intelligent tween or young teen who comes here full of energy and enthusiasm, makes rookie mistakes, gets into trouble, and too often flames out, but who could have become a fine Wikipedian if he or she had taken things just a little more slowly. I recognize the type, because that's precisely the editor I would have been if there had been an Internet and a Wikipedia when I was 11 or 12 or 13. "Minors" doesn't do it because it equates a 12-year-old editor and a 17-year-old editor (or in some jurisdictions such as Puerto Rico a 20-year-old editor), which would clearly be a mistake.
 * I've thought about this over the past several days and still think my instincts were correct with the original name. As such, and since the move was not discussed before being implemented, I've moved the page back to the original name pending discussion. I will start a thread on Wikipedia talk:Guidance for younger editors where you can suggest the move if you wish. If there is a consensus in favor of the move, I certainly won't stand in the way. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:36, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

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Tech News: 2014-04
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes
 * The latest version of MediaWiki (1.23wmf11) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on January 16. It will be added to non-Wikipedia wikis on January 28, and all Wikipedia wikis on January 30 (calendar).
 * You can now see relatively recent results on special pages like Special:DoubleRedirects, Special:UncategorizedPages or Special:WantedCategories. They were disabled before because they were very slow. The results are now updated once a month. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15434]
 * As of January 16, you can make and use guided tours on the Asturian, Farsi and Russian Wikipedias. If you want this tool on your wiki, you need to [//translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=ext-guidedtour&filter=&language=&action=translate translate it] and ask in [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org Bugzilla]. [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/105997/]
 * You can give comments on an idea to have a fixed toolbar at the top of wiki pages.
 * You can watch a video to learn how to report problems in Bugzilla. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54606]

VisualEditor news
 * In the toolbar, the menu to edit the styles (like bold, italic, etc.) now has a down arrow (VisualEditor - Icon - Text style.svgVisualEditor - Icon - Down.svg). The order of the Insert menu has also changed a little.
 * You can now edit  tags with a very basic tool. [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/107537/]
 * You can now see a help page about keyboard shortcuts in the page menu. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52844]
 * When you change categories, you will now see them when you save the page. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48560]
 * When you edit templates, you will now see the parameters in the right order. The ones that you must add have a star (*). [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51930] [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53611]
 * The page will now be saved faster, thanks to a new way of coding the text that sends 40% less text to the servers. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59660]
 * Your wiki can ask to test a new tool to edit TemplateData. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51734]

Problems
 * There was a problem with search on the English and German Wikipedias between January 6 and January 14. You could not see new pages and changes in search results. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59979]
 * There were "pool timeouts" errors on several wikis on January 13; it was caused by a code change that was made to fix another problem. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59993]
 * On January 17, Bugzilla and Wikimedia Labs were broken for about 20 minutes due to network problems. IRC channels with recent changes (irc.wikimedia.org) were broken for about two hours.

Future software changes
 * If you have removed JavaScript in your web browser, you will soon be able to see the orange bar saying that you have new messages. If you have changed how the bar looks with a gadget, you may need to change the gadget again. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56974] [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/95102/]
 * You will soon be able to add a given Flickr user to a blacklist so that their files can't be uploaded using UploadWizard on Wikimedia Commons and other wikis. [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/42770]
 * You will see a warning when you try to delete a page included in at least one other page. [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108188/]
 * You will so longer see disambiguation pages in Special:LonelyPages. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3483]

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  10:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

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Tech News: 2014-05
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please inform other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes


 * Pages from Wikimedia sites now load faster in your browser thanks to "module storage", a way for your browser to save data like JavaScript and CSS on your computer to avoid downloading them again. See video.
 * The code used to show videos has changed. You should be able to play the video on the page, with the play button on top of the video. If you see the play button on the right of the video, or if clicking on the video leads you to the original file, please file a bug or tell User:Bawolff. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/55550]
 * The  page will be removed because it's too slow. [//gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107988]
 * The latest version of MediaWiki (1.23wmf11) was added to test wikis and MediaWiki.org on January 16. It will be added to non-Wikipedia wikis on January 28, and all Wikipedia wikis on January 30 (calendar).

Problems
 * On January 21, Universal Language Selector was turned off on all Wikimedia sites because it makes pages load slowly. If you want to use web fonts, or write in scripts that aren't on your keyboard, you need to add it as an option in your preferences. It will be turned back on when the issues are resolved. [//bugzilla.wikimedia.org/56433]
 * For about 20 minutes on the same day, there were problems with CSS and JavaScript due to high server load.

Future software changes
 * You can give comments about the new version of "Winter", a proposal to have a fixed toolbar at the top of wiki pages.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by MediaWiki message delivery • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  09:47, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Did you know
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