User talk:Vanished user 7b1215e7ef746ac20682e3dbe03f5b84/Archive Mar-Mar 2014

Stotesbury, WV
Any chance you could take a look at Stotesbury, West Virginia? The "other buildings" section of the article is kind of a mess. I just had to take a big chunk of text out of there because it was written in the first person and almost certainly a copyright violation, and there's still a bunch of unsourced stuff in the article (and for all I know, it could be plaigarized too). Since it's in your neck of the woods, I thought you might know its actual history better than I would. Thanks, TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 10:53, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * When I bought cigars for Senator Byrd, he would chat with me about this place. He attended services at the white church. It is a favorite of mine and I will of course take a look. There are some valid online sources. Please be aware that is is also a local political mess. St Johns, the black church, a multi story, all wood, structure was allowed to fall into ruin, and it was well known, that it could have been rescued. I will of course avoid the controversyCoal town guy (talk) 13:47, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

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Clickable County Map of West Virginia
You asked on my page about how to get a clickable map of counties in West Virginia the way there's one for Kentucky. So, here's how it works.

A map is clickable in Wikipedia or other sites using the Wikimedia software (the underlying software Wikipedia uses is called Wikimedia) by using the Wikimedia clickable link instructions. It uses a syntax similar to the standard client-side clickable link format for regular websites. You would take an image of WV counties of the size used in the article, then create a clickmap using a map editor program, following the edges to create a series of poly regions equating to each county. After you do this, if the map program doesn't support Wikimedia mapping commands, you change the commands (but the coordinates the mapping program used will be the same), then you include a link to the article for each county.

There is supposed to be one that does this for the Wikimedia format but I haven't had much luck with it. To learn more, edit or view source on a page that has a clickable map, like go to List of Texas area codes, then click on Edit This Page (You actually want to see the page source, you're not really going editing it.) The beginning of the clickable map area has an html tag of &lt;imagemap> and ends with &lt;/imagemap>, starts with the specification of the image to use, then each region to be defined and the coordinates and the link in Wikipedia to use. The region coordinate data is the same as that used for a standard client-side map, but the commands and the way a link is indicated is done differently than the usual method.

Check out this page http://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-MediaWiki-ImageMap-Extension to see how it's done or Google wikimedia image map or wikipedia image map. Good luck. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 20:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: There already was a clickable map on the page listing West Virginia Counties, I've moved it to the top of the article List of counties in West Virginia, click on edit this page and you can see how it works. Actually, I never used the link I gave you above, it actually works for creating clickable image maps. I may start using it, there are places I want to add clickable maps that it was too difficult to do. Paul Robinson (Rfc1394) (talk) 23:56, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Gtwfan52 (talk) 00:07, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Featured list candidacy for the list of counties in West Virginia
Hi. I see that you are looking for advice on getting featured list status for the list of counties. Based on my experience with featured list review, I suggest that you look at similar featured lists for ideas on how to best present the information in this list. For one example, see List of counties in Tennessee. See Featured lists for others.

One recommendation I have for the WV list is to eliminate the width settings on the columns -- let the software decide how much space to allocate to each column. Also, I would restrict the display size of that now-huge map of West Virginia. --Orlady (talk) 01:44, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have very little experience with featured content, as I've done nothing more than WP:GA. Consequently, I can't suggest anything more profound than the following: (1) Be sure to heed the basics, such as spelling and punctuation, as well as style guidelines such as WP:OVERLINK.  (2) As Orlady said, try to pattern the page after FLs of other states' counties.  (3) Someone tried to get the Ohio list to FL a few years ago, but it failed.  You may do well to review the nomination.  (4) Expand the references so that they're full citations, rather than just the URLs with names as they are now.  WP:CITE is relevant here.  Nyttend (talk) 02:22, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Further to my earlier comments: The lead sentence "Below is a listing of the 55 counties in the U.S. state of West Virginia" is too self-referential for a featured list. (Lists should not start with statements like "this is a list".) Try something like "There are 55 counties in the U.S. state of West Virginia." --Orlady (talk) 15:59, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In reply to your query on my talk page: Yes, some of the other list of county FLs do start with a sentence like that. However, there's a general preference at FLC for avoiding that kind of locution. If you select random featured lists, you will find that very few start with language like "This is a list" or "Below is a list." The preferred approach is to define/describe the topic in the lead sentence. See, for example, List of municipalities in Tennessee and List of cities and towns in Arizona. --Orlady (talk) 16:10, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

asked me to offer some advice, so here goes. Hope this helps, once you are done imp[roving things, I would have someone copyedit the text,Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 22:13, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Start watching candidates at WP:FLC to get an idea what kinds of issues arise there. Hopefully there will be some geography or government lists that might serve as models for this one.
 * 2) While there are 21 FLs in Category:FL-Class U.S. counties articles, 15 were promoted in 2007, 2 in 2008, 2 in 2009 and 2 in 2010, so the most recent FL is about 3 years old and 17 are already about 5 or 6 years old. Since FL standards have become more rigorous since 2007-2008, I would look at the 4 most recent as the most applicable model articles: List of counties in Utah and List of counties in Florida are from 2010, while [[List of counties in Missouri and List of counties in Alabama are from 2009. Do not follow the older FLs as your sole models (i.e. the CT list is pretty old and starts with "This is a list..." which is no longer the preferred style).
 * 3) I would still look at all 21 FLs that are of the "List of counties in X" variety (inclding parishes in LA), and pay particular attention to similarities, as well as features you like and want to include. The leads all seem to have a lot of history, state maps showing all counties are common, as well as counties with largest and smallest population and area, oldest and newest counties, etc.
 * 4) Make sure the lead is referenced to reliable sources, especially those things that are not repeated in the body of the table (which should have its own refs to RS, and already looks decent).
 * 5) Utah might be a particularly good model for WV since it is most recent and it came into the US in a bit of an odd way too (so its counties existed before it became a separate state).
 * 6) There is some room for variation in the table part - for example the AL list gives the vehicle licence plate codes for each county.
 * 7) Looking specifically at the WV list, the lead needs more refs, the bullet point list should be converted in to straight prose, I would link all county names in the lead, and I would move "The map shown is clickable; click on any county to be redirected to the page for that county, or use the text links shown below on this page." to a caption of the map figure.
 * 8) Were any counties split in the creation of WV from VA (so that there are/were two of the same name, one in each state)? Are there any former counties?
 * 9) Is it impossible to make new counties now because of the requirements? I think the GA article discusses this (not a FL)

A bit more ... see List of municipalities in Sullivan County, Pennsylvania for a FL which has two townships that were split when the county was formed. List of municipalities in Lycoming County, Pennsylvania has a list of former townships - both have history sections in addition to the lead. Not that the WV list has to follow those models, but I hope that they are helpful, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:56, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I just looked at it again, and noticed a few things. 1) WP:MOS says both English and Metric units have to be given, so square miles need sq km too - convert works nicely. 2) This could be tightened to something like "The remaining five counties (Grant, Mineral, Lincoln, Summers and Mingowere) formed within the state after its admission as a separate state on June 20, 1863.[1][2] 3) This is messed up "Additionally, a majority of the vote would be required by voters within the new county. minimumas the following guidelines are met:[6]"

OK, I just copyedited the lead to try and tighten it, move refs after punctuation with no spaces, and put refs in numerical order. I also added the actual population (number) for the largest county and added the smallest pop county to the lead. I tried to put like things together (area counties) and tried tightening the state constitution paragraph. Please make sure that I did not introduce any errors or move info away from the ref(s) backing it (and feel free to revert whatever you feel does not work or is in error).

I am not sure that I understand 100% what the quote means so is the sentence OK: "In 1872, the framers of the new state Constitution "advocated a return to the old Virginia system of county courts holding executive, legislative and judicial powers..."[9] This could perhaps be moved to the first sentence of the paragraph to something like this:
 * ''"The West Virginia Constitution was ratified in 1872; its framers "advocated a return to the old Virginia system of county courts holding executive, legislative and judicial powers...".[9] The state consitution's Article 9, Section 8 permits the creation of additional counties, as long the new county has a minimum of 400 square miles (1,036 km2), a population of 6,000, and a majority of citizens within the proposed new county vote for its creation.[7] Creation of a new county is prohibited if it would result in the reduction of another county to less than 400 square miles (1,036 km2) or less than 6,000 residents.[8]

As for the rest, I would
 * 1) Add the year of the population figures to either the lead or the table header (assume 2010 census, perhaps more recent official Census estimates?)
 * 2) Birth and death dates in the Florida county list are generally given in this format: (1782–1850)
 * 3) Biggest problem left is references. First off, format the references. Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. cite web and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V and look at the model FLs for examples.
 * 4) Some of the refs on closer inspection do not appear to be reliable sources - what makes findthedata.org or finagrave reliable sources?

Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:27, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

PS I learned "high German" but can understand dialects to some extent, especially Hessian and Swabian / Badisch. The Swiss dialect is nearly incomprehensible for me, and I do not have a lot of experience with the Bavarian dialect. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:30, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I would see if you can find a book (or two) on WV history and/or place names and cite that in the column header (as the Utah counties FL does). As I mentioned above, the Florida FL is over 2 years old and so likely reflects a looser standard. I know at WP:FAC they would ask for sources for the info, and assume they will at FLC. Plattdeutsch is quite difficult to understand, especially when spoken quickly! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * It's looking good. I see a couple more things to think about, though. Follow WP:MOS regarding upper-case and lower-case usages. In particular, note that headings within the article are supposed to use "sentence case" (i.e., words after the first one aren't capitalized unless they are proper nouns), not "title case". --Orlady (talk) 20:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Gtwfan52 (talk) 23:01, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

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Talkback
I left one note on the talk page of Jarret's Joy Cart. Starship9000 (talk) 14:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

List of counties in West Virginia
Sure, I will definately take a look over things, and comment on the FL discussion. Might not be until the weekend, however. Well done for all your work on this one!
 * MANY thanks, I really looked over the other FL county lists to make sure I was at least on the same sheet of musicCoal town guy (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

List of counties in West Virginia Part 2
Coal town guy, first and foremost I'd like to thank you for all your tremendous contributions to Wikipedia, especially regarding West Virginia and its many current and former populated places. It's always a pleasure to log in and see your latest edits and additions. Before I comment on the FL nomination page, I wanted to touch base with you about an addition to the list summary. As is, the list is good to go and is definitely FL worthy--thank you for crafting this incredible article. My one recommendation would be to add some information about the "County School Unit Plan" passed by the West Virginia Legislature in 1933 reorganizing school districts from magisterial, independent, and subdistrict units to coexisting with county boundaries, hence our current system today where each county has its own school district with its own school board no matter its population or land area. The actual legislation is available at the West Virginia Division of Archives and History site here with an overview and various related links here. I am more than happy to make the addition, but I didn't want to step on your toes or edit the article without consulting you. Of course, feel free to add this blurb in too if you see fit. I thought it would be beneficial to illustrate one more county-level function to put the list over the top for FL status. Let me know what you think. -- Caponer (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * MANY THANKS!! Great idea and I have found a ref in the code!Coal town guy (talk) 01:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You're quite welcome sir and thank you again for an oustanding article--the additions look great! -- Caponer (talk) 04:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

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List of counties in West Virginia FL nomination discussion
Coal town guy, I just left my comments on the discussion page for the List of counties in West Virginia featured list nomination. I apologize for my late addition, but it does look like the minor issues barring the list from FL status have been addressed by you and the other participating editors. I concurred with Orlady that it meets all the criteria and should move forward to FL status! Great job on this list--I'll definitely be seeking your guidance on future articles and lists regarding West Virginia-related topics. And thank you for your kudos on the John Collins Covell article--I'm working on building and updating articles relating to the West Virginia Schools for the Deaf and Blind. With my current schedule, it's slow-going, but progressing all the same. Thanks again! -- Caponer (talk) 02:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. I wish, in some manner, I could convey what a FL rating would mean to alot of people in WV, many of them took me aside and well, lets just say, they took time, to take me aside. I have some great news in May, which is WV history related and will be on Wikipedia......Coal town guy (talk) 02:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI, please don't ask people to support, since that's a form of canvassing. I'm not going to vote either in support or opposition — I know enough to ask questions, but I'm just not familiar enough with the standards to say "This definitely fits" or "Right now, this definitely doesn't fit".  Nyttend (talk) 15:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Asking the questions helps a person understand the standards better. Its part of the process. My apologies. I cant learn a standard or a way it fits, unless I ask. I am certain, there are others who learn differently 15:28, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Lest it be unclear — I had already decided that I wouldn't vote before you left me the message; I'm not trying to "punish" you for the message. Nyttend (talk) 00:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Nyttend, I feel no punishment, I value your input, and I very much look forward to working more with you on Wikipedia in the future. I am very literal and I ask alot of questions, thanks again for your input. The FL process is far more stringent than it was just a few years ago, and I am in the process of learning that now. My method of learning anything, here or anywhere is to ask questions, lots of them. I appreciate your patienceCoal town guy (talk) 01:01, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

West Virginia Industrial Home for Boys
Ha, actually my grandmother used to threaten my mom and aunt with that saying, which was funny given that it was a correctional facility for boys and later the Pruntytown Correctional Center. I'll have to add West Virginia Industrial Home for Boys to my to do list! -- Caponer (talk) 02:41, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * a suggestion...If it is the same facility as the other one you named, Why don't you go ahead and create the article title now, and redirect it to the current facility? Then you can work on the original place at your leisure. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Book sources
Hi. I fear I may have led you astray on this business of "other editions" and links to Amazon. I've edited some of the references accordingly.

I would reserve that "other editions" language for situations where you were citing an old edition of a print book that may not be the same book available now through various book sources. When the edition of the book you used is the current edition, the link to the ISBN number is good.

Also, please know that Wikipedia is not interested in promoting Amazon or any other commercial business. For that one book by Lewis, the Amazon "ASIN" link has some merit, as there is no universal ISBN number to use. In general, however, we should use the ISBN number to create a link to Special:BookSources (for example, either ISBN 9780813118543 by itself or the parameter isbn=9780813118543 inside a "cite" template will create a link to Special:BookSources/9780813118543), where readers can choose a book source that's accessible to them. In addition, Google Books links, often including links to specific pages -- if it's a free Ebook or if "preview" mode is available, are desirable (but may not work forever, nor for readers in other countries). --Orlady (talk) 18:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. This is certainly a learning process. It also makes me aware of how many other FL lists out there need work. I will help those with the subject matter I am familiar with, but wow. If this makes FL, its gotta be a great standardCoal town guy (talk) 19:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Red links
Hey, dude. If you have a few minutes, could you see about turning a couple of red links blue for me? As I was working on an article about John C. Breckinridge's service in the Civil War, I was unable to find articles for places called Maynardsville and Bridgeport. Neither was given a state qualifier, but from the context, I think it's very likely they are both in Tennessee. Maynardsville is mentioned as being located on something called the "Tazewell Road" and should be in the general vicinity of Cumberland Gap, which was where Breckinridge was headed when he camped there. Bridgeport apparently lies along the Tennessee River, because the article mentions that Breckinridge arrived to find the bridge out and had to ferry his troops across the river. Thanks as always. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 00:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC) Also, Edgefield, which should be somewhere in the vicinity of Nashville. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 01:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me get them tomorrow, celebrating a birthday, not mine thank God, tonightCoal town guy (talk) 02:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No hurry. That draft article won't even be in the mainspace for a few weeks, at the earliest. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 04:22, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Maynardsvills" is a misspelling of Maynardville, Tennessee. Bridgeport is on the Tennessee River in Alabama: Bridgeport, Alabama. --Orlady (talk) 06:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like there are two possibilities for Edgefield. There's an Edgefield in Smith County, which is about 60 miles east of Nashville, and apparently Edgefield is a former name for East Nashville, which is a lot closer. The second one is more likely to be "on the outskirts of Nashville". TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 10:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I think East Nashville is the more likely candidate, given the context. Thanks to both of you. You have awesome talk page stalkers, Coal town guy! Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:42, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Lots of folks do help out, its nice to know, glad the red links are goneCoal town guy (talk) 17:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk page cleanup
As a frequent visitor to your talk page, I notice it's getting kind of long. This is just a suggestion, but have you considered archiving some of those old conversations to make the page more manageable? I know you can set up some bots to do it, or you can do it manually like I do (see the right side of my talk page). If you want to do this, I'll be glad to help you get started. Also, it's certainly not mandatory, but lots of folks (myself included) like to collect up their cookies, kittens, and barnstars in a single place, especially before archiving them. See my gallery. Like I said, it's not required, and maybe it's a little vain, but it sure can help out when you're having one of those days! Just a suggestion; take it for what it's worth. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * EGAD, I did need to tidy it upCoal town guy (talk) 16:08, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations on the featured list
Congratulations on the promotion of the counties list! Having worked on some featured list nominations myself about an eon ago (List of municipalities in Tennessee was my first), I like to see other editors work to create featured lists for topics like geography, history, and science (pretty much anything that's not one of the over-represented popular culture topics). Every featured list should encourage other Wikipedians to inject similar good qualities into their own lists. Proud that I was able to help you out a bit. --Orlady (talk) 22:09, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm piling on here rather than creating a new section. Great work on the West Virginia counties page, and congrats on the FL. I was happy to help you get there. Jonesey95 (talk) 06:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Belated reply
Hi Coal town guy, congrats on the FL promotion. Apologies for the belated reply; I was busy elsewhere, meant to get there yesterday and got caught up with RL stuff. Just wanted to tell you that you did a impressive job in the period between the PR and the FL. Truthkeeper (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Annoying talk page stalker I think it's spelled: Supercallafragilisticexpialidocious! Go   Phightins  !  02:35, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations and thanks
Congratulations on your first featured list, and thanks so much for the barnstar. Keep up the good work! Yours, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

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oops indeed
I'm guessing you were trying for this? Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:00, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You are correct, my error, and thanks for the catchCoal town guy (talk) 15:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I see you have a few more to add, above; let me add my congratulations as well. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  15:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanksCoal town guy (talk) 15:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

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West Virginia Counties FL
Congratulations on the FL, great work! Let me know if there's anything more you need in the future, I'd be glad to help. Jujutacular (talk) 04:29, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Re: Ohio counties list
It would be nice to get that one back at FLC. Luckily, it doesn't need all that much work, just a retooling of the lead and figuring how how to best explain the strangeness with Wayne County. Wizardman 17:10, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Laning's the second listed ref of the two book sources currently; i'll split them out and make the refs clearer soon enough. I believe NCA/NCT are the same thing; I'd be surprised if they weren't but I could be wrong. Wizardman  04:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar Thanks!
Wow Coal town guy,

Thank you so incredibly much for this tremendous honor! After writing and editing countless West Virginia-related articles and categories since 2005, I'd never received a barnstar award, so it means a great deal to me and is greatly appreciated for your acknowledgment! Thank you again for all your contributions to Wikipedia and for making West Virginia and its heritage, culture, and communities accessible to the world! Congratulations again on your featured list, sir! --Caponer (talk) 01:15, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Scrip
Coal town guy, thank you for sharing the interesting topic of coal scrip with me, especially since I've never heard of it before! My absences from Wikipedia will be increasing slightly in the weeks to come as I take on more projects and prepare for a move in the real world, but I will continue to have as much presence here as possible and hope to coordinate on this article when the pace slows down. I'll do some digging in the meantime. Take care, sir! --Caponer (talk) 01:20, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Re Guyan River
I'm using Openstreetmap; Google maps; DeLorme atlas; and I'm clicking the coordinates link in the upper right of the page so as to get a pin on a Google map in cases where it's not clear. (I'm looking at a map and aerial photo of, say, Itmann, which you say isn't on the river; it sure looks like it is! Are you meaning that the coordinates assigned to the place by the GNIS are incorrect?) -- Malepheasant (talk) 02:21, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * When you say on the river, what do you mean? IF you mean, I get up, open a window and see it, no, not so. If you mean on a map it looks close. Sure. By that logic, McLean VA is on the Potomac, and well, its not. I could drive 4 + miles to Great Falls and see it sure. BUT I am not on itCoal town guy (talk) 02:41, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Kentucky coal camps
I just created Kettle Island, Kentucky and noticed that you wrote Kettle Island Coal Camp, Kentucky a while back. The two places have separate GNIS entries, but their coordinates are in the same area, and Kettle Island is also a coal town. The GNIS entry for Kettle Island Coal Camp cites Robert Rennick's research and says the coal camp no longer exists, but Rennick's book of Kentucky place names only seems to mention Kettle Island, which he says is an existing coal town. So do you think these are duplicate entries for the same place, or is this another case of a settlement moving (albeit not that far)? A similar situation seems to exist for Arjay and Arjay Coal Camp, and I want to figure out what's going on here before I write the Arjay article. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 01:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * From what I can gather, they are seperate. The "coal camp" coal town was the inhabited area closest to the mine, then you had a town area of the same name, further away which lead to the camp. Additionally, it is a time consideration. Almost without exception, they will list the coal camp as being defunct. This is in some instances fact, but it is also political. Lets face it, if you were a municipality, having a coal town in your area was roughly equivalent to having a leper nudist beach. I chose the coal town because I want to populate the category as much as I can before I start to break it down by state and county. I very much appreciate you asking by the way. Let me know how you want to proceedCoal town guy (talk) 02:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems like a reasonable explanation to me. I figured if they were separate, it would be for some reason like that. That would explain why only the coal camp would be listed as defunct, too. If they weren't separate for political reasons, my guess would be that the mine closed after the coal ran out, so the coal camp either died out or got absorbed into the rest of the town (though of course it's speculation either way). I could probably be convinced either way about merging the articles or leaving them separate; for now they can probably be left as separate articles, but if there turns out not to be anything more to add about the coal camp merging them might be appropriate. I'll go ahead and start the article for Arjay. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 04:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

County lists work
Hey there! I just wanted to mention that I'm pretty busy IRL. I already feel like I'm not putting enough work into these lists! Haha. I can't promise I will have a ton of time, but whatever time I do have for Wikipedia, I will try to concentrate on these lists. Jujutacular (talk) 05:30, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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Kanawha County, West Virginia
Counties roughly follow the order of sections in this guideline Wikipedia USCITY because there isn't a county guideline. You shouldn't include phones numbers, because "wikipedia isn't the yellow pages". I think you broke some fields in the infobox. • Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 10:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I placed no phone numbers and never ever have. We have a new user KanawahCo who is having a field day telling the world about the new Walmart, swell people, family fun etc etc. Are you telling me you want a county article to have the phrases fun places and swell people with their phone numbers??? I could have a ball with alot of counties if thats the case.Coal town guy (talk) 14:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Looks like an energetic newbie, perhaps having something to do with the Chamber of Commerce, who could use a little guidance. Perhaps also a pointer to Wikivoyage, which within reason, might be a better place for some of this material.   Acroterion   (talk)   15:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm, last night the "diff" looked like you did it. Now that I check it through the history link...it doesn't it.  Maybe the newer diff has some quirks?  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  •
 * I did a roll back, and then, you guessed it, rolled that back as well. There is some good data, and I tried to manually edit out the other data. However, it is difficult to go therough all of the changes this user has done. It is sadly common to WV county pages. I do however believe that this was a newby, and I hope their user name does not mean a county rep did the work.....Coal town guy (talk)
 * Double checked the residents. A majority are indeed from Kanawha County. I have wiki linked them and they are back on the page. We need to be as careful as possible with the newby and their inputCoal town guy (talk) 20:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

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Red link
Just ran across a red link for Tyrone, Kentucky in the new article Young's High Bridge. It's not my article, but I thought you might want to turn it blue anyway. Always nice to know you'll have an incoming link when you create an article. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:44, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Many thanks, it is very appreciatedCoal town guy (talk) 01:43, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Minor edits
I guess that you may not have read WP:MINOR? When you are adding content, as in some of your recent edits, then it's not a minor edit. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:18, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * My error and thank youCoal town guy (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Your question at Teahouse regarding map references
i would suggest contacting Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads. They have more experience with using maps as references than just about anyone. You might try to reach someone on their IRC channel, which I don't have, but you can find it at their project page. That way, they can talk to you about their practices, and not be too hung up on policy. Gtwfan52 (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * GROOVYCoal town guy (talk) 18:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

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Citing a primary constitutional source
Its a complicated issue but, you may make clearly descriptive prose or text that anyone, without expertise can understand to be straightforward. For example, in the article United States Constitution under "National government/ Legislature" you will see that there is some prose about individual lines from the document such as:

So, basicly you just begin with a starightforward description of the text in a particular section and then add the anaysis/interpretation from your RS source, summerized directly below it. i hope this helps.--Amadscientist (talk) 02:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This article used to have a Feature status but has been dropped to a B status. Best to seek a higher rated article of a similar nature to double check how such highly reviewed article handle this, but I think the above is what is generally done. Sorry for the "Happy edit" confusion. They want us to end with that to be as nice as possible or begin with a "Welcome to the Teahouse". I agree, it can sometimes make editors feel like they are being kissed off, but I assure you it is just something that we do at the Teahouse. But...we also attempt to follow through so if this still does not help you may always seek further input at my talkpage.--Amadscientist (talk) 02:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Photo
Hi-I like the photo on your user page-thank you for posting it-RFD (talk) 18:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thats Jenkinjones WV......that place is rather cool. I plan on doing a gallery for the place here, HOWEVER, I need to of course be schooled in what is appropriate for a gallery.

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Article Feedback deployment
Hey Coal town guy; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:32, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * GROOOVYCoal town guy (talk) 01:18, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

"U.S. state of"
HI. I guess we are in the middle of a WP:BRD action. Can you point me to any place where it is required to use such a phrase as "the U.S. state of California" or the "U.S. state of West Virginia"? Thank you. GeorgeLouis (talk) 00:45, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know if we have a policy mandating it, but I know a lot of non-U.S. readers appreciate it, either because they genuinely don't know all 50 U.S. states or because they appreciate us not assuming that they do. Per comments on some of my FACs, I usually begin all my political biographies with some variant of "John Doe was a lawyer and politician from the U.S. state of Kentucky." Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:22, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I concur, BUT there is a wicked bad logic thing here. The code. not what you read, but rather what we edit reads,

Gilmer County''' is a county located in the U.S. state of West Virginia I get why we have the US county ref because the othert county article is a wreck. BUT look at that phrase. Its a US county in the US state of etc etc etc. BUT, WP:LOC only nails the title, not the lead. We do indeed need to let folks know its inthe US, it is I agree, presumptive to think, the other near 7 billion people on the planet would know that, BUT, WOW, that is some ugly code....I have a new porposed county template (has humor) here...ANY comments would be welcomed, and I do mean ANYCoal town guy (talk) 13:29, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

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Nomination of Hazel Kirk, Pennsylvania for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Hazel Kirk, Pennsylvania is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Hazel Kirk, Pennsylvania until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Nomination of Good Intent, Pennsylvania for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Good Intent, Pennsylvania is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Weyanoke, W.Va
As you are the resident expert on obscure Appalachian coal towns, I was going through an old trade magazine and found reference to "Weyanoke, West Virginia" and the Weyanoke Coal and Coke Co. I can't seem to find quick online information on the town (mostly out of curiosity), but it may be a missing article, or the very least a redirect to the county/nearest town, etc. Know of it? Morgan Riley (talk) 15:39, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * (stalker edit) It's in Mercer County; I started Weyanoke, West Virginia. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 09:03, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi guys, back from the beach, no coal there. Weyanoke Coal and Coke was HUGE at its zenith. Check out Arista, West Virginia and Hiawatha, West Virginia as well. Both of those were in Mercer County as well. While yes, there was a Weyanoke WV, its greater presence was probably in Hiawatha. Hope this helps and thanks Catalyst my manCoal town guy (talk) 20:32, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently you didn't go to New Zealand :-) Thanks for the notes on Alaska; I've never done much with our articles up there.  Nyttend (talk) 21:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Anytime, my brother lived in New Zealand for a bit, great people wonderful culture..I have always been fascinated by remote placesCoal town guy (talk) 01:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

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Merge Penile, Jefferson County, Kentucky and Penile, Louisville?
Do these refer to the same place?

Penile, Jefferson County, Kentucky and Penile, Louisville.

Regards, Gilliam (talk) 18:00, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, they are now that I am looking. Their hometoen locator is incorrect. Please use the GNIS entry article. Good catch. The one in Jefferson County was also called PenialCoal town guy (talk) 18:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Nyttend/ZIP
Just a reminder — before you remove a blue link that goes directly to an article, please check to make sure that the article has (and is linked by) the appropriate county template. I've not checked (and am not planning to check) the pages you removed, so please don't think that I'm objecting to what you're doing; this is simply a reminder to do what you may already be doing consistently. Of course, it's going to be different if the link is a redirect to an established article (e.g. Akers, Louisiana, an alternate name for an established place) or a link to a disambiguation page. Nyttend (talk) 19:36, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! The county templates used to be my biggest single activity (I created most of them nationwide), but it's been a long time now since I paid much attention to them.  You may find it gets boring as you get into far western Kentucky — having been there last week, I can testify that the small communities of Fulton County and other parts of the Purchase are culturally as far away as you can get from Appalachia while still remaining rural.  On the other hand, you may find them interesting for the same reason as these coal towns: they're withering away because of the surrounding geography, at least partly because they're so susceptible to flooding.  It's somewhat eerie driving through places like Sassafras Ridge (36.55333°N, -89.32861°W), perhaps even more than it would be if they were in the hills: a few abandoned businesses, a few abandoned houses and trailers, and a few still-inhabited houses and trailers, all surrounded by miles of wide-open fields with the only elevation change being the Mississippi River levees that you can dimly see a few miles away, and you know that they burst in 1993 and might again.  As you gaze across the massive floodplain fields, you realise that they were once home to lots of small farmers, and now they're abandoned because modern machinery enables farmers to cultivate wide areas while living up on the bluffs away from the floodwaters.  It's even emptier and lonelier than it would be if it were in the hills: if you're in a remote hilly area for the first time, you can always imagine that there's a house just over the ridgeline, but out there you know that there are no other humans within several miles.  Nyttend (talk) 23:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Good observations. I am going on another great trek in the end of May in McDowell County WV. I get my hiking clothes, and start driving. I usually stop at any static yellowed grass paths proceeding in a perfect line. Thats creasote, killing grass buried underneath bad reclamation and thats where I find places. They are at times, just stair cases in the woods. Other times, I get lucky and there is an actual passable road. ALWAYS have my cameras. No Big Foot sightings, BUT, good people and placesCoal town guy (talk) 01:31, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I normally don't talk with the locals — not because I have something against them, but because I have lots of places to go, and people always wonder how my Ohio license plate ended up in a little town so far from Ohio, and it takes a bit of explaining to satisfy their curiosity about the out-of-town guy who's taking pictures of the neighbor's house. I do enjoy talking with people when I have the time (on Friday I met a lovely old lady in Blytheville, Arkansas, who was delighted to learn that I found her city interesting), but when you have hundreds of miles to drive and you want to get lots of photos, talking can become distracting.  Of course, I often find myself starting conversations with "Help, I'm from out of town; can you tell me how to get to ____?"  Eastern Kentucky is a place I really don't know; except for places on the Ohio River, I've almost never been east of I-75 in the state, so most of what I've learned is from a former roommate who worked for an archaeology firm in Harlan and nearby counties.  Even that is more than my knowledge of West Virginia; other than the Ohio River counties, I've not been to any part of WV except for a couple of interstate trips as a child and a single US 50 trip (when a teen) from Capon Bridge to I-79 at Clarksburg — nothing of southern areas like McDowell County.  Nyttend (talk) 01:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, reading the McDowell County article, I see that floods aren't outlandish in that area either — I'm somewhat familiar with flood slike this, and definitely familiar with floods like this, but flash floods aren't something I think of very much. Nyttend (talk) 02:02, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Totally understood. I have the luck, I guess, of being more local myself, but I am now 30 years and 300+ miles removed, its tough, but what I can recall, helps alot with local people because most of the places I go are rather, shall we say, remote. Most coal towns are anyway. What I did discover is that when interviewing people, they can tell you ALOT about an area, and together you learn so much that the photos become easier. I MUST get to Algoma and Caretta and Jenkinjones and if you ever, and I do mean ever make it CR8, at Jenkinjones, there is no way on earth a person accidentally gets there. WOW, its far out. Flooding there is an issue because of the soil. Its been overmined for decades. Hence a flashflood there wipes out silt almost instantly. It can be quick and fast, and leave alot of a town, goneCoal town guy (talk) 02:08, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I'll let you know of any disambiguation issues as I go.

I live in Northern KY so I'm glad to help on issues relating to the bluegrass state.

Some of the towns remind me of Jason Aldean's song Fly Over States, "Miles and miles of back roads and highways, Connecting little towns with funny names."

-Gilliam (talk) 21:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Many many thanks! I know the siong well.Coal town guy (talk) 23:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Prosperity, West Virginia
Both of these communities of the same name appear to be in Raleigh County, WV. Might they refer to the same place?
 * Prosperity, West Virginia
 * Prosperity, Raleigh County, West Virginia - Gilliam (talk) 01:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * WOW, I made an erro there for sure. The CDP entry is correct.Coal town guy (talk) 02:04, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation
These articles appear to refer to the same place and should be merged:
 * Brown, West Virginia
 * Nuttallburg, West Virginia

If Brown became Nuttallburg, you could mention this in Nuttalburg's history (?) section. Gilliam (talk) 08:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I left a detailed reply on your talk page. Each town had its own PO. Hence why I uploaded a postmark of each town to each article. They are disctinct coal towns and yes, I have been to both. When Brown went under, SOME not all of their mines were used by Nuttallburg which was a town proper at that time as well. While GNIS did not do the job right, and I cant blame them, I can provide links to mine maps showing the diffs which will help, I think. BUT, let me know. AND again, many thanks for the keen eye.Please DO NOT merge these. It would NOT be correct to do so Coal town guy (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

County Templates
Could you tell me what you want me to explain, and to whom I should explain it? You've fixed the problem well. Nyttend (talk) 12:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, explain it to you — I thought you meant I was supposed to instruct Gilliam or someone else. I'm not sure that a navbox for coal towns would be helpful: first off, the 900+ means that one navbox for all of them would be ridiculously big, and secondly the criteria for inclusion would be unclear.  County templates are easy, since we include every municipality and every unincorporated locality that's counted as a populated place as long as they're within the specific legal boundaries of the county.  Simply being a coal town isn't really enough of a defining characteristic; I'm afraid that a navbox for coal towns would go against the advice given in the "Do we really need this template at all?" section of the WP:ATC essay.  Meanwhile, I really don't know how they're made; when I went around creating these templates, I started with one created by someone else and simply changed county name, county seat, and community names.  I think you might do better to create something like National Register of Historic Places — rather than creating navboxes, I think it would help to put together a short list of some common topics (e.g. coal town, coal scrip, company town, coal mining), link all of them in a small box, and place the template on many articles as a footer.  Nyttend (talk) 14:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

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Fireco postage stamp
Thanks for writing. You're so right about the stamp. I thought a picture would be better, but both images are best. Cheers! Richard Apple (talk) 23:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

County government in the United States
Hi. To defuse the edit war that has started at Category:County government in the United States, I'm hoping for some additional input on the topic of whether U.S. counties are (1) a level of local government or (2) an arm of state government. I think this is a topic that you might be able to comment productively on. Discussion thus far is on my User talk page at User_talk:Orlady, but we could move it to a content-oriented talk page if desired. --Orlady (talk) 00:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Greetings, Orlady has posted this question to about a dozen places already, and at this point, I think we need to look into the whole canvassing policy. Perhaps we should take this question to WP:United States, and WP:Politics and leave it at that. I am perfectly willing to enter into a discussion or two about the matter, BUT NOT 50! My claim is that although county officials may be elected or appointed locally (i.e. not statewide), the actual county government itself is an arm of the state government. This is consistent with the powers they exercise (elections, law enforcement, etc.). If we could have some academically informed input, I would appreciate it, because the general impression and intuition that people have is that county government is "local government," but to those who actually study political science formally, the difference is known. The compromise that I propose is the persons should be categorized under "local politicians" while the offices should be categorized under "state government." Greg Bard (talk) 8:39 pm, Today (UTC−4)
 * Howdy, I stopped 2 years into my Phd program for Appalachian studies with a grad degree in Econ and law as it pertained t commerce and states rights. I am rather familiar with thi concept and would STRONGLY suggest we do indeed get a singkle discussion and STRONGLY suggest we place the politics aside ESPECIALLY if you choose Connecticut as an example. Thats slippery slope, and its all a hacked political POV. Not neutral and NOT hereCoal town guy (talk) 01:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

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CDPs and census data
I probably haven't taken the time to get back with you on your recent replies. My laptop was stolen about three weeks ago, which means I'm back to either working from my phone or wherever I can find a real computer out on the road.

The 1980 data may take a little time to fully transcribe. I had to photocopy it from a book. The remaining censuses are available online (you have to go to Gazetteer, not FactFinder, to find it). There are missing files. However, it should be easier going, between the data being online and mainly looking for differences rather than starting a list from scratch.

Like with the list of legislator articles, this is to establish notable subjects which need articles. It may be prudent in the future to move the information to a requested articles page, if the articles aren't all created first. Speaking of which, the 2010 Census CDP articles are found on es-wiki (here's just a few examples). I just haven't had the time yet to translate the articles, because it requires a little more attention to detail than automagically relying upon Google Translate. RadioKAOS –&#32; Talk to me, Billy  19:15, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Comment
I hate wikidrama!!! The category warring and the Gibraltar WikiProject!!! I wanted to get that out of my system. Thank you for what you for Wikipedia-RFD (talk) 23:20, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Netherlands municipalities list
I am swamped in real life and have a few peer reviews I said I would do and am way overdue on here already - I can probably take a look at the list in May. Sorry, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

State Line, Kentucky
A pity I didn't know about this place a few weeks ago; I drove through there on the trip I mentioned to you, but I didn't take any photos between Hickman and Woodland Mills. Nyttend (talk) 05:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I often take old topo maps and a compass when I decide to do some photos in an area that is not so well populated anymore. It is amazing what you can find if you look closely.Coal town guy (talk) 17:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The Center Line: Spring 2013

 * —EdwardsBot (talk) 22:26, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the encouragement.. I am taking a break for a few hours but remain committed to finishing the KY Place Names guide on Google books.- Gilliam (talk) 13:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * As of recently, I have added quite a few red links to disambiguation pages for Kentucky towns in my book but not in Wikipedia, as maps and infoboxes is not really my thing. Thanks again for adding your touch to those articles.= Gilliam (talk) 13:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

New article.
Here's something new that needs worked on: Grace, Kentucky. It needs an infoboox, map, the works.

Grace is an unincorporated community located in Clay County, Kentucky, United States.

A post office was established in the community in 1898. Grace is said to be named for the favorite housekeeper of a local congressman.
 * Many thanks, got it doneCoal town guy (talk) 03:29, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the Barnstar. I hope someone can make use of the information that I gathered. Or just take the list whole (but eliminate the first column). → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 03:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Gulston and Pansy
Please don't do this — the list really shouldn't be changed except by removing blue links. This kind of situation is better addressed by creating the old name as a redirect to the new name, and then deleting the old name because it's a good blue link. Nyttend (talk) 17:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I will make sure to follow that to the letter. At least the list is getting shorter.Coal town guy (talk) 17:54, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, I wasn't complaining and wasn't expecting an apology; I'm sorry that I made you think that. Feel free to append comments to entries; I meant that the links themselves shouldn't be changed.  Post offices generally mean some sort of community, so these situations probably mean that GNIS is missing the place — like Wikipedia, they're nowhere near complete.  However, the lack of information means that I'd suggest you not create any articles for these places unless you get additional information.  Look for online published county histories, or try to find applicable historical markers, or check your Kentucky Atlas and Gazetteer if you have it.  I have the atlas, so if you don't have it, let me know which communities need to be looked up in it.  Perhaps you could add a marker (e.g. ‡) next to the names of the communities that aren't in GNIS?  Meanwhile, since you're doing all of this writing of local history, I strongly suggest that you obtain a copy of A Bibliography of American County Histories (library catalogue link) if you don't already have one.  Nyttend (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Believe it or not, its on my Birthday list....The County History book, that is........Coal town guy (talk) 18:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Found (by accident) a good example of a no-GNIS situation. Sassafras Ridge, which I mentioned up above, is absent from GNIS, but it's in the Atlas and Gazetteer, and GNIS has the ridge itself (ID #502999) and a nearby church (ID #503000), and it definitely exists, so we'll presumably be able to find sourcing somewhere.  Nyttend (talk) 19:21, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * A VERY cool thing, (KY Atlas and Gazetteer which I found online) many thanks. I have a Gazetteer question for you which I will post on your pageCoal town guy (talk) 20:28, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The coordinates for #502999 point to the community, which is on a road and isn't part of a noticeable ridge, so I think the GNIS misclassified Sassafras Ridge as a ridge instead of a populated place. In my experience, the GNIS does that a lot when it comes to places that have a geographic term like "Ridge" or "Valley" or "Bay" in the name; usually if you tell them about it they'll correct it. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 20:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point; that reminds me of Mount Jefferson (Ohio) and its AFD, which was the result of someone relying purely on the GNIS. What do you mean about it being online and giving you an ID number?  I'm talking about this, which is much more portable and much more useful without Internet access than any online service :-)  I'm suggesting that you use it to give the article a little geographic context.  See what I did at Branchville, Indiana, where I used the Indiana atlas to specify (1) the road on which it's located, and (2) where it lies compared to a larger community, in this case the county seat.  Nyttend (talk) 21:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * AHA, I misunderstood you Nyttend, Yes, I have KY and TN and WV and OH and WY and VA road altas and Gazetteer. There is of course an online KY Gazetteer which gives the GNIS numbers you provided. I thought you had gotten those from an Atlas or Gazetteer. I mixed that up with a ref number in the Atlas. Yeah I know. I said I was a very very literal personCoal town guy (talk) 21:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

The GNIS is quicker than usual today; they've already responded to my question about Sassafras Ridge. It's now classified as a populated place, and it's also marked as historical now since the person handling the request noticed that the community's abandoned. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 21:31, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

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Thank you-RFD (talk) 09:48, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

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Rayburn, Alabama
Hi-Could you do an information box for Rayburn, Alabama please? Also Baden, West Virginia needs an article. Thank you for your help.RFD (talk) 12:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Got them both. Thanks for the data for letting me know about BAden!Coal town guy (talk) 13:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Rangely
I was just wondering if someone could add a detailed history section and mabee add to the attractions section I made. If you can't I will just have to ask a few people around town this summer. SmerkInYourEyes (talk) 19:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, there are a few sources, county govet offices, and talking to folks is great, BUT, be certain to get references. Not, because the guy who lives there said so. Good luck!!Coal town guy (talk) 22:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Lucerne, West Virginia
Hi-Lucerne, West Virginia in Gilmer County-GNIS-1549802-thank you-RFD (talk) 20:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Got it! Many thanks!!Coal town guy (talk) 21:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 May 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for May 23
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Ai, Georgia, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Georgia (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Thanks
Thank you for your constructive criticism in the list article and for the barnstar you gave me. CRwikiCA <i style="color:navy">talk</i> 13:29, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem, it was deserved. Besides, it was my Dutch room mate who improved my German, how can I forget. My dialect at that time was what a person would call NOT high German...Coal town guy (talk) 13:48, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I have always found it odd that it is called high German haha. CRwikiCA  <i style="color:navy">talk</i> 16:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ditto, especially when we heard Platt alotCoal town guy (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 May 2013
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State Line KY
Do you still have access to the envelope that you scanned to produce File:State Line KY postmark.jpg? The image doesn't look like a normal scan; to me, it looks as if you photographed the envelope at an angle instead of photographing or scanning it from directly above. Meanwhile, it really should be retagged as PD-USGov, since the image is an unoriginal reproduction of stamps and a postmark created by a US Government agency. Nyttend (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nyttend, I sure do. I took a pic from a borrowed camera, BUT I can make certain to get a good scan within the week. Would that suffice?Coal town guy (talk) 19:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure; thanks. A different camera angle will work fine; just be careful to be directly above (or very close to directly above) when you get the picture.  When doing this kind of thing, I typically turn off all the lights except a desk lamp; sunlight can cause funny shadows and overhead lighting will often put your head's shadow and the camera's shadow on top of the subject, but a desk lamp is low enough that you should have an easy time making all shadows end up well to the side.  Nyttend (talk) 02:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I just did just over 1000 miles of driving in WV and came back home and promptly collapsed. This is my first full week back. I was FINALLY able to update a few of the National Historic pics on lists for more remote places, McDowell County, Fayette, and of course Raleigh (not remote BUT fun)Coal town guy (talk) 13:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice! I'm just starting to collapse, too; I just got back a few minutes ago from an all-day photo trip to the farther-out Indiana suburbs of Chicago.  The direct Bloomington-Michigan City-Crown Point-Bloomington trip is 400+ miles, and getting photos of remote historic sites means that I took a decent number of detours.  I've already gotten all of the remote Indiana historic sites; pretty much all of the ones I don't have are in the state's northern cities, which are far enough away that I simply can't visit them under normal conditions.  Nyttend (talk) 03:28, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

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Wheat, West Virginia
Hi-I came across Wheat, West Virginia and wanted to help out. Thanks-RFD (talk) 21:22, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Got it. The real world is still hip deep, but I did manage to update it, many thanks for the catchCoal town guy (talk) 14:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Maybe of interest to you
Ran across this article on the Lexington Herald-Leader web site today and thought you might be interested. http://www.kentucky.com/2013/06/22/2688769/pineville-attorneys-scrip-collection.html If you are, I recommend you try to get a copy (electronic or otherwise) ASAP, because LHL articles tend to disappear behind the paywall. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 20:32, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * GROOVY....ALMOST ready to start editing more again, crazy real world time constarints. However, MUCH appreciated.

Thanks
Thank you for the barnstar. It is nice to see that the list article finally made it to FL! CRwikiCA  <i style="color:navy">talk</i> 18:41, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

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TemplateData is here
Hey Coal town guy

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:08, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hahn, Texas
Hi, CTG! Hey, since you write more about towns that are pretty much gone than anyone I know, would you mind taking a look at the above article? I find the roadmap approach the editor is taking to be a bit silly. Gtwfan52 (talk) 04:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Its a tad extreme, and in some instances, misleading. I can make some edits, BUT it wil be nice to have your feedback as well, JUST IN CASE there is a less then pleasant reaction.Coal town guy (talk) 18:15, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Please do. I will start a discussion on the TP and if you could make any edits you see as appropriate, that would be great.  I'll get at it around 10pm MDT today. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I left a comment/defense at the Hahn talk page. When WP called for photos of places my response was to travel to many small towns within driving distance. I upload my photos to existing articles and write new articles about other places that don't yet have any. I'm having fun. Anyone is welcome to improve the articles as per the common understanding. But removal of all geography data except GNIS coordinates seems like too much, especially since I can find many examples in WP of non-GNIS data being included. I think this disagreement boils down to a difference of opinion about what is considered "useful information" and who gets to decide. If there is a WP standard for articles about small and ghost towns, please let me know and I will try to follow it. My WP writing is always evolving. Thanks. Djmaschek (talk) 00:12, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Djmaschek, whoah whoah. I am on your side and have fun as well. The only contention I would have is the levelk of detail. I am painfully aware of amller places and remote loications on the map and I am 100% with you. The only specific questions I would have are do you think its needed to include data about which quad this place is located in? AND do you think its needed to tell folks which road and if its a right or left. I think, its fantastic to have the level of detail especially for smaloler places. We all evolve and I certainly hope to do so as well. The reason I would even ask this is given the level of detail, do you think it would help or hinder? For example, the quad data could go in a geography section, and stating the geo coordibates in the article itself, is over kill, you have an info box and a title abopve the map image, how many more do you need? Again, this is a great article, love the cemetery data, however, on a lark as it were, is the cemetery populated by a famous family or persons? How many are a few oil wells? How about a section on what the oil industry meant to that place? Just some thoughts and by no means were my words meant as a challenge and most of all, to deter fun, it is funCoal town guy (talk) 13:15, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I left a response at the Hahn, Texas talk page. To change the subject: Do you think Hahn qualifies as a ghost town? I've been wrestling with this. It might be insulting to the few remaining residents. There are some objective criteria (no identifying road sign, source refers to it in the past tense, few or no homes) for labeling a ghost town but no hard and fast rules. Of course if a source states explicitly that it is a ghost town, it makes it easy. In Hahn's case this was not stated. Djmaschek (talk) 03:52, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Believe it or not, it is totally possible to be classified a ghost town and have a population. I had a bit of a time with that as well. The main thing to keep in mind, and this is my experience, your mileage may vary, IF and I will again state IF you find yourself considering the emotions of the people there, try to look at the place as if it were in an encyclopedia from the view of a person saying, oh look, here is a town named Hahn in Texas, I wonder what it was etc etc I am VERY guilty of being emotive on certain topics and there are times when hell yes, its hard to watch what others write about certain places. I have, no exaggeration, walked away from major editing efforts because, I would not remain non emotive OR, it would be a confrontational feel, and thats just not an option for me. Its NOT easy at times but again, consider what an encyclopedia is, and go from thereCoal town guy (talk) 04:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * CTG gives great advice. I edit a lot of high school articles and the attachment the kids have to their school's article is not really conducive to effective editing.  A prom is a prom; every school has one so they are not really worth discussing in a high school article.  But try to tell a schoolkid that about his or her school's prom, and look out!  My very first edit on Wikipedia was to an article about a friend from high school, the next was to my high school's article.  I pretty much have left it and my hometown alone since except to revert vandalism, just simply because it is hard to separate what I know, what I feel, what I can prove and what others might care about.  I went round and around with a guy about the importance of a commercial campground in his hometown.  Generally, Wiki articles about places don't discuss specific businesses unless they have notability on their own. (The best indicator of that is an article existing on them.)  He felt since the campground was the only thing in the town he should talk about it in specifics in the article.  It took me quite a while to convince him that just because the campground was important to the town, that didn't make it important to the world.


 * The article looks much better now. I found a website that actually mentioned that no census data exists for Hahn, so there goes that idea.  There are simply some places that all you can say about them is they exist or existed.  I too hope you continue to edit Wikipedia and am more than willing to help you in any way I can.  Feel free to drop me a note anytime. Just an aside; the last time I was in Texas, about 40 years ago (I have family in Taylor), Hutto was just a crossroad, quite like Hahn is today.  Now, Hutto is a thriving small city.  Things change.Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is a census data set that would mention Hahn, BUT you would need to know what district of the county it was in. You will see names, but no population totals.Coal town guy (talk) 14:02, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter
Hey Coal town guy. We've just rolled out a new version of the VisualEditor :). Changes and patches include:


 * Newly added templates now list their available parameters if TemplateData is available;
 * The load for the VisualEditor on apages is now 4 KiB, down from 119 KiB;
 * Feedback dialog is no longer chased off the screen by typing (bug 50538)
 * Fixed the Monobook issues around z-indexes (bug 50241)
 * Undoing an image resize doesn't make everything look bad
 * In the image dialog, "Caption content" is now just "Caption"
 * Tweaked tooltip references to VisualEditor to instead talk about "source mode"

Those are the big ones; more coming at the end of this week or early next week :). It's a short list, but the load issue took up a lot of time, as did TemplateData, and are both pretty big changes. If you've got any questions, drop them on my talkpage. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 01:20, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 July 2013
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Fairview, West Virginia
I came across the disambiguation page for Fairview, West Virginia. Articles for Fairview, Mingo County, West Virginia and Fairview, Wetzel County, West Virginia are redlinked and need articles-thanks-RFD (talk) 23:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * GROOVY!, Many thanksCoal town guy (talk) 02:00, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter
Hey Coal town guy! We've just deployed some fixes to the VisualEditor. These include:
 * "Edit" will load the latest version, not the version you're looking at (bug 49943)
 * "Edit" will load the latest version, not the version you edited last time if this is your second edit (bug 50441)
 * VE edit section links will load the latest, not original, version in diff view preview (bug 50925)
 * Foo and similar repeated tags will not get corrupted any more (bug 49755)

In the meantime, testing is proceeding well, and hopefully we can get some more fixes out over the next couple of days. If you're interested in helping out, we have a set of open tasks we'd really appreciate your assistance with :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 07:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

VE newsletter
Hey Coal town guy

We just deployed another VisualEditor release; bugs fixed include:
 * Firefox 13/14 has been temporarily blacklisted, to avoid the insertion of broken links ./that look like this (50720)
 * Changing a reference in a template should no longer produce the bright red "you don't have a references block!" error (50423)
 * Notices are now shown if you're editing a protected or semi-protected page (50415)
 * The template inspector will no longer invite you to insert parameters that are already being used (50715)
 * Same as above, but with aliases (50717)
 * Parameter names in the template dialogue now word-wrap (50800)
 * The link inspector will not show in the top left if you hit the return key while opening it (49941)
 * Hitting return twice in the link editor will no longer introduce a new line that overwrites the link (51075)
 * Oddly-named categories no longer cause corruption (50702)
 * The toolbar no longer occasionally covers the cursor (48787)
 * Changing the formatting of text no longer occasionally scrolls you upwards (50792)

Not specific bugs, but other things; cacheing is now improved, so people should stop seeing temporary breaking when the VisualEditor updates, and RTL support has received some patches. I hope this newsletter is helpful to people; I'll send out another one with the next deployment :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:07, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 July 2013
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VE newsletter
Hey Coal town guy! Another set of patches :). Today we have:


 * Required template parameters are now automatically added to new templates (50747)
 * Templates with piped links now display correctly when you alter them (50801)
 * If your edit token expires, you're now informed of it (50424).
 * You still won't be able to save - that's due to be fixed on Monday :).

More on Monday, I suspect. Hope you have a good weekend :). I should also have some news about the IP launch pretty soon. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 13:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

(if you're seeing this and aren't the newsletter recipient - please do sign up here)

VE newsletter
Hey Coal town guy; hope you had a decent weekend :). We've got a pile of patches, some of which went out on Monday, some yesterday:


 * If you insert wikitext such as links or section headers, you get a notice in the top right corner (over the save button). It doesn't go away until click, though once dismissed you don't get another one that edit. (49820)
 * If your edit token expires, VE fetches a new one for you so you can save. (50424)
 * If the page is empty of content but does have something non-content (like a category or an HTML comment), VE no longer crashes on load - (50289)
 * sub tags are no longer removed ((49873)
 * If you type at the end of links, they now extend
 * Templates now only take a single click to insert
 * Clear annotations clears links (50461)
 * The link inspector stays open when you click to another item (50895)
 * Typing after multi-byte characters no longer creats pawn icons (51140)
 * Resizing thumbnails that have a default size set now works (50645)
 * References made by tag:ref now display properly (50978)
 * The VE is integrated with the spam blacklist (50826)
 * Feedbacl link goes to the right language (47730)

There are a lot more improvements coming, but that's it for Monday and Tuesday. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 08:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 July 2013
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Cornelison Pottery
I was waiting for you to create an article over it(or list it at RFD) before blanking it, but seems you made a nice article at a quick pace, cheers. --AshFR (talk) 00:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * See my response at WT:NRHP; there were a couple of minor formatting notes that I mentioned there. Please don't include substantial quotes from the nomination forms; they're copyrighted, so we can't use text itself from them except for minimal significant quotes, and it's just about always easy to rewrite the same thing in our own words.  I've performed all the changes that I suggested; just check back to see what I was talking about.  Nyttend (talk) 02:01, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, learning alot hereCoal town guy (talk) 02:03, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Page number. We should always include the page number when citing a multi-page document.  Sometimes that's easy — for example, if one page from the nomination has all the information you want.  In such a case, include the page number in the citation: ""This is a good way to cite page 2 from the nomination.  If you want to cite different pages in different citations, you have two choices: either provide a completely new citation for each different page (thus making the reflist look rather redundant, since you're giving the complete citation multiple times), or use the ref name= feature and don't include the page number inside the ref tags at all, instead using rp.  This way, the citation only appears once, but by including the page number with the rp template, you're still making the page number accessible.  You're free to give separate full citations to the same document if you feel like it, but I don't because I don't feel like it.  Look at the reference lists for Ellerbusch Site and Sair Tjerita Siti Akbari, for example.  The latter article contains tons of separate entries with citations to different pages from the different sources, while the former includes just a few entries despite tons of citations to the same source.  If I'd followed the STSA article's style with Thomas Green's dissertation in the Ellerbusch article, I would have had fifty entries with citations to the same work, rather than just one.  Nyttend (talk) 02:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, if you want to write about sites in that part of Kentucky, you could get places with photos by writing about sites in Jessamine and Mercer Counties — I attended church conferences at Wilmore in 2009 and 2010, and several afternoons I spent getting pictures. Nyttend (talk) 02:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * GROOVYCoal town guy (talk) 03:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Thurmond
In response to your struck-through question, Thurmond, West Virginia (which I largely wrote) is pretty much the same as the historic district. Where the town and the HD are substantially the same, the practice has been to include the HD as a section in the town's article, and Thurmond is a good example of this. It's not very ling, and I don 't think it serves the reader to make them go to a stub on the town and then to an article on the HD to read about what is essentially the same place.  Acroterion   (talk)   12:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Have to agree, hence the strike through. Its a cool place, if you can, try to get there. I will of course be putting up more pics of HDs in the area.Coal town guy (talk) 21:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

VE newsletter
Hey Coal town guy. The newest updates: Along with some miscellaneous language support fixes. That's all for today; as always, let us know if you spot more bugs. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Links now don't extend over space/punctuation/workbreaks when you type (51463)
 * Users with the "minoredit" preference set get working functionality (51515)
 * You can tab to buttons in dialogs, including the save dialog (50047)
 * We now show the (or ) message as an edit notice (51459)
 * You can scroll dialog panels like in transclusions' templates' parameter listings (51739)
 * Templates that only create meta-data and no display content at all (like Template:Use dmy dates) now can't be deleted accidentally or deliberately, but still don't show up (51322)
 * FlaggedRevisions integration (49699)
 * Edit summary will get the section title pre-added if you launched from a section edit link (50872)

The Signpost: 24 July 2013
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Gilberton controversy
Sorry, I don't think that the section about videos made by Gilberton, Pennsylvania's police chief should be blanked. The videos made national news and the section is sourced by numerous third party sources. If you have suggestions, please make them on the talk page rather than blanking the section. Respectfully, Athene cunicularia (talk) 18:31, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I replied on the article talk page, I am uninvolved in that processCoal town guy (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 July 2013
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Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

 * Hi! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
 * The Teahouse new editor help space
 * Wikipedia Help pages
 * -- 19:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

 * Hi! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
 * The Teahouse new editor help space
 * Wikipedia Help pages
 * -- 19:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Names of unincorporated communities
Hi-I just saw your article about Possum Kingdom, Kentucky. It would interesting to know what the history of the community and why it got the name. Pole Cat Crossing, Wisconsin is another one. Polecat is an animal but it is also a slang term for skunk. Another one: Ubet, Wisconsin. Many thanks for the articles-RFD (talk) 18:56, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There's also a Possum Kingdom Lake in Texas, though its origin story appears to have nothing to do with Kentucky. For my own amusement, I'm going to assume the community was founded by a bunch of Toadies fans. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 22:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That is probably more pleasant, BUT, I think there is a piublished source that describes this as a vast food source and many formerly hungry people. Recall also that when you have been in that wilderness, and trying to create a place of habitation, the level of hunger drives a person to dine on literally ANYTHING. I recall reading a letter from that time period where the explorer was considering eating the ass off of dead mules without cooking. Hardwork, and hunger drive peopleCoal town guy (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter for 06 August 2013
It's been almost two weeks since the last newsletter, and a lot of improvements have been made during that time. The main things that people have noticed are significant improvements to speed for typing into long pages, scrolling and deleting  on large pages. There have also been improvements to references, with the latest being support for list-defined references, which are s defined inside a
 * colspan=3 style="background-color:#FCD116; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; border-bottom: 1px black solid"| Volume 6, Issue 3 • Summer 2013 • About the Newsletter
 * - style="vertical-align: top;"
 * Departments
 * Assessment roundup
 * Portal selected articles and pictures
 * Features
 * Rewriting Infobox road and incorporating Wikidata
 * Driving around the Pearl of the Orient
 * Fixing our shields licensing
 * State and national updates
 * Project news in brief
 * Task force reports for CA, GA, MI, MN and WI
 * colspan=3 style="background-color: #FCD116; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; border-top:1px black solid;" | Archives • Newsroom • Full Issue • Shortcut: WP:USRD/NEWS
 * }
 * —EdwardsBot (talk) 22:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Task force reports for CA, GA, MI, MN and WI
 * colspan=3 style="background-color: #FCD116; text-align:center; font-weight:bold; border-top:1px black solid;" | Archives • Newsroom • Full Issue • Shortcut: WP:USRD/NEWS
 * }
 * —EdwardsBot (talk) 22:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * —EdwardsBot (talk) 22:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 11
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Talkback
ww2censor (talk) 13:59, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Again ww2censor (talk) 14:17, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 August 2013
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Milburn
Infoboxes really shouldn't contain anything except (1) things already in the article, or (2) minor/trivial things that still probably ought to appear, like ZIP codes or telephone area codes. Location is a critical component of any article's text, and the coordinates are at least as important as a written description of the location: both written descriptions and coordinates enable readers to understand where the place is located, but the coordinates' obvious link makes it easier to get access to the location on a map. Yes, readers can go to the infobox or the top right corner of the article to get coordinates, but presumably not everyone notices that those coordinates are there. Even for people who do realise that they're in the corner and the infobox, providing the coordinates in the text helps because they won't need to jump back and forth between text and infobox. Elevation is less of a critical thing, of course, but it's still enough of a locative thing that it does well in the text; it's not so trivial that I think it belongs only in the infobox. We normally don't provide elevations for larger communities, but that's purely a matter of applicability; saying a city of twenty thousand people is at a certain elevation is unrealistic unless it sits in very flat terrain, but tiny communities like Milburn can reasonably be said to sit at a certain elevation. Nyttend (talk) 13:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Understood.Coal town guy (talk) 14:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Your response sounds like what I say what my boss tells me what to do. Don't treat me like a boss :-)  What do you think of my comments?  Note that the east-west mixup with Bardwell was my fault; I'd just added the text some minutes before.  Nyttend (talk) 17:34, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree yuou are not the boss, BUT you have alot more experince and I will tend to follow that lead. I have learned quite a bit from you and others here so for me, it was more as respect or defference (sp?). However, no worries. there are a few articles where I am most certainly having to be bold. See see this I think the edits you performed with Milburn specifically make sense as there is alot of very specific locational chat etc etc. Many of the places I do document, I try to properly indicate where they are by using the info box. That being said, I am a tad leary given the NRHP rating scenario and restating data from an info box in the body of an article. I am starting NOTE, starting to get the method to the madness of wikipedia, there are however some articles where ANY ref seems to propel people to believe a FA is just one more ref away and that aint so.Coal town guy (talk) 17:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but no deference is needed :-) The thing with the WP:NRHP ratings is basically that Doncram's been trying to game the system for quite a while; simply trying to expand an article with useful information is helpful.  Some of the issues whence the controversy has arisen are basically attempts to bloat articles with large amounts of text on trivial things (e.g. devoting lots more text to the fact of a site being NR-listed than to anything about the site itself), and other problems have arisen from extensive quotation that goes far beyond the limits of fair use.  Nyttend (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter for 21 August 2013
Both VisualEditor and MediaWiki were upgraded recently. For VisualEditor, this is the long-awaited post-Wikimania update with many bug fixes and enhancements. Work also continues on speed at opening and during use, as well as on the bugs reported here and at other Wikipedias. The full report is at Mediawiki.

References are displaying properly, even when nested or in image captions (.  Reference lists are now always fully populated with references (bug 50094).  Firefox users can insert an existing reference in the first paragraph .  Opera users no longer see corruption of categories when a reference was added (bug 50385).

Stray spaces are being stripped from the start of paragraphs to end one of the common  problems. We also fixed a round-tripping bug that caused desirable whitespace in templates (used to make templates more legible, e.g., by putting each parameter in an infobox on a separate line) to get corrupted (bug 51150).

Wikilink handling was improved. Users are not allowed to create internal links to invalid titles (titles that are actually impossible due to limits on acceptable character combinations in titles, not redlinks). You can extend wikilinks, but it won't do so over a wordbreak (like a space) (bugs 49931 and 51463).

A handful of fixes to the user interface were made. The toolbar doesn't float over personal tools after opening a dialog or the inspector. Toolbars were also re-written to be collapsible/expandable, with room for more icons. Buttons in dialogs can now be activated using the Tab and Shift key commands (bug 50047). This saves time for editors, because you don't need to take your hands off the keyboard to click a button. We fixed a handful of bugs that affected only certain articles or certain browsers, including toolbar buttons in Firefox (bug 51986) and dialog panels that didn't always scroll correctly (bug 51739). Bugs with undo/redo getting confused have been fixed.

Images, in addition to getting references displaying correctly, also saw improvements with a set-empty link parameter no longer corrupted (51963). We corrected thumbnail images' display so that they look don't wrong in some contexts (bug 51995). Inserted images no longer explicitly set their alignment, but instead inherit the default position in compliance with the Manual of Style (bug 51851).

More edit notices, warnings, and metadata like information about Pending Changes on an article now appear as appropriate (bug 49699). When new articles are created, users are now shown the   message (bug 51459). VisualEditor now handles templates that set "meta" items (like a category) and nothing else better (bug 51322). If the database is locked when a user tries to save with VisualEditor, they now get a message telling them as such and an opportunity to try again, rather than a silent failure (bug 51636).

When you save the page, having the default preference set to "mark all my edits as minor by default" no longer overrides the setting in the save dialog (bug 51515). If you open VisualEditor from a section edit link, the section's title will be pre-filled in in the edit summary box when you go to save it (bug 50872). The size of the save dialog box in the Monobook skin has been fixed (bug 50058). Also, wikipage content handlers like sortable tables are re-run automatically after saving.

A very early version of the mathematics equation editor is now available for testing on mw:Mediawiki. If you would like to help improve the user interface for math editor, please test out the extension at mw:Mediawiki:Sandbox and leave your comments directly at the discussion page for the Math Node User Interface at Mediawiki. You should be able to use your regular username and password should to login to Mediawiki.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 17:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 August 2013
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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 08:16, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Dab headers
It's simple Wikipedia policy that we need to dab places with the same name clearly; it's most common to do that as tersely as possible; and, no, you can't just only worry about present-day names, because you have historic documents to consider (all the more so since usually the renamed city is much bigger and more important than whatever hamlet still carries the name). So, no, don't blank good and valid content; at most, just fact tag it if you need to know where the data came from.

But... if you really want to take all the hatnotes I made and instead create tens or scores of X, Kentucky (disambiguation) pages between (usually) only two places instead of using direct hatnotes, I suppose that's fine... but you're still going to end up with an (uglier) hatnote and a needless dab page in the end anyway, so I wouldn't advocate it. (In some marginal cases like Leesburg with that red link, I could see moving the dab down to a See also section, but that's not standard.) —  Llywelyn II   20:43, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I very much appreciate the reply and I follow the logic, I however would profer that it is an incredibly slippery slope. Consider a town named Red Dragon, which is now named Blue Pennant. It was also known as Mordu. So, does this mean that every bad martial art film, every novel about serial killers, (Recall Red Dragon ) or every movie gets this tag. Good luck on that fella, thats about a hundred years of dabbingCoal town guy (talk) 23:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Cello
I saw your note about wanting to get this article back to GA status. After seeing the call to arms to get more widely read articles up to GA status, I said I would tackle a more specific instrument article after taking Hammond organ to GA, which has now been done. Saxophone was my first choice to work on next, but I'm happy to work with cello provided somebody can help with sources.

From a quick skim through the article, it looks like your biggest problem is with the referencing and sourcing. I note it was delisted for this reason way back in 2006. The problem I've found is that it's very hard to retrofit sources around text somebody else has written, as unless you get really lucky with a Google Books search, you won't be able to find what the original author based their writing on. Indeed, the relevant sources may be offline and they may have just written up what they happened to know. I would suggest Grove's Dictionary of Music is a good place to start - Antandrus has an offline copy and might be amenable to providing specific cites of information.

Elsewhere, the coverage looks broad in scope (thus meeting GA criteria 3), but I'd have to look in more depth to confirm this. The text could do with a thorough copyedit - the first sentence of "Etymology" takes up three lines on a 1280x1024 monitor and combines multiple clauses. Tony1's self-help writing exercises are good to take a look at - although these are geared towards FAC, there's no reason they can't be applied at GAN. If I've got time, I can tackle some of this. Ritchie333 <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F;">(cont)   09:55, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I want to say thanks for your patience. I have located some books and will be updating the cello article. My main contention is that many of the dates and assertions in the article were incorrect in reegards to Strads, the dates etc etc and the overall purpose behind the Strad designs and proportions to the said instrument. Also, Hoiw about some of the external links being yanked? They are for folks who sell higher end celli, thats swell, but we do not advertise here and honestly, would you trust all of the data a salesperson provides you on anything? ESPECIALLY a piece of wood that can go for WAAAY over 50 grand? Secondly, as I have played for some years, I find it VERY difficult to believe that we actually have artiucles here about rosin, being "better" when it s dark or light. My own daughter came home and told me her teacher wanted her to buy violin rosin...yes, I said violin rosin. WTF is violin rosin? Do you know? I dont. I have made my own rosin and I can assure you, there is no violin, or bass or cello or viola rosin. Lets chat about rosin color shall we? I mean this was a GA article right? The color of the rosin is a marketing tool. Its exactly the same thing merchants used to do when they bought the same cigars wholesale. They change the wrappers and hope its all good. Lasltly, until I looked, there were no conversions for measurements via the tool provided here which was far more accurate than the math someone else had done in the measurement table. As this is a cello article, I thought I would live on the wild side and actually insert a pic of a chart showing the parts of the cello, radical huh? Coal town guy (talk) 13:50, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Other avenues
In response to this comment, the other avenues are best left undiscussed because Arbcom is not a place any of us wants to be -- and anyway questions about minimum standards for stubs were remanded to "the community". --Orlady (talk) 19:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I would usually rejoin with, "are you shitting me", but I can see that you are not. OKEY DOKEY, the bot request would still be within the reason and discussion, per the suggestion of being remanded to the community, right?Coal town guy (talk) 20:49, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Re: AWWW SNAP
Hello, sorry for being late. I was going through a bad situation. I'm afraid I didn't undertand you question. (It might be my poor English knowdlege) <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [zootalk]  13:20, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries, I am glad you are staying. We were at one point at the Teahouse discussing small populated places. Hence why I mention Spotted Horse, Wyoming. Curiosity makes you a better editor, stick around.Coal town guy (talk) 13:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeah! It very curious, how does a town only have 2 people living in it? lol :) <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [zootalk]  16:17, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Chaplin, West Virginia
Hi there. I wanted to write a Wiki article about Chaplin, West Virginia, but found myself completely lost. It's not listed on GNIS, yet there are a lot of NARA photos in the Commons which feature the town by that name. I was able to find an old map which located it here 39.64997°N, -80.00244°W. It was sometimes called a town, and other times a coal company. Sometimes it's identified as being part of Scotts Run. Both of these red links are ok and have other articles linking to them. I wouldn't mind filling in these two articles, and maybe adding some of the great pictures. Any suggestions? Thanks! Richard Apple (talk) 14:25, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Chaplin was for sure a coal town, I believe I recall seeing it on an older county map. There is a lady at GNIS who has helped me before, IF I can get her a map showing the town named Chaplin, it should not be an issue. Morbid curiosity, when you did the GNIS serach, did you happen to use all possible returns or just a populated place??Coal town guy (talk) 14:41, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Found itit was west of Osage. However, I need a map of Monongalia County preceding 1938, cant find one yetCoal town guy (talk) 15:05, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Found a map [LOOK next to southwest of Maidsville], It appears to me, that Pursglove, replaces Chaplin, BUT other sources said it was NEAR, Scotts Run, a coal town also, to the south! I can get a copy of this to the GNIS folks and see what they thinkCoal town guy (talk) 15:18, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 August 2013
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VisualEditor newsletter for September 5
This Thursday's VisualEditor update was mostly about stability and performance improvements, and some preparatory work for major planned improvements, along with bug fixes for non-English language support and right-to-left text. Everything that the English Wikipedia received today has been running on Mediawiki for a week already.

Officially, the problem with the link inspector not linking to a specific section on a page (bug 53219) was fixed in this release, although that critical patch actually appeared here earlier.

A number of bugs related to copy-and-paste functionality were fixed (48604, bug 50043, bug 53362, bug 51538, among others). Full rich copy-and-paste from external sources into VisualEditor is expected "soon".

In other fixes, you can no longer add empty ref tags (bug 53345). Selecting both an image and some text, and then trying to add a link, previously deleted the selected image and the text. This was fixed in bug 50127. There was another problem related to using arrow keys to move the cursor next to an inline image that was fixed (bug 53507).

Looking ahead: The next planned upgrade is scheduled for next Thursday, and you should expect to find a redesigned toolbar with drop-down menus that include room for references, templates, underline, strikethrough, superscript, subscript, and code formatting. There will also be keyboard shortcuts for setting the format (paragraph vs section headings).

If you are active at other Wikipedias, the next group of Wikipedias to have VisualEditor offered to all users is being determined at this time. Generally speaking, languages that depend on the input method editor are not going to receive VisualEditor this month. The current target date is Tuesday, September 24 for logged-in users only. You can help with translating the documentation. In several cases, most of the translation is already done, and it only needs to be copied over to the relevant Wikipedia. If you are interested in finding out whether a particular Wikipedia is currently on the list, you can leave a message for me at my talk page.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 September 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for September 11
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Three Legs Town, Ohio, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Native American (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Found Message I Believe Was Directed To Me
Hey there, looking at the WV pop updates thus far, good job on the info boxes and data., However, the article space reflects a differentr count than the infop box. As WV has 55 counties, I am willing to do them. I just did Hardy County and indicated in the article space that the pop figure is based on a 2012 estimate from the 2010 census. Let me know if this is in keeping with the update. ThanksCoal town guy (talk) 15:06, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Above is a message that was a reply to one of mine on another users page, I stumbled across it today and I was wondering if you could clarify what you mean by article space? Also it's best to contact me on my actual talk page rather than replying to a comment I make elsewhere I'm not all that active at the moment so I'm not really monitoring my watched list. Jamo2008 (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't plan on updating the intro's it's a nightmare from a automation point of view since there are so many variations to how those intros are written, and I never standardized them since most where updated before I got to them, I just used some regex expressions to catch unupdated ones and leave updated ones alone. Also having the official 2010 value there is no big, after all it is the official population value of the location until 2020. Also I applaud your work on counties, I don't do them so most states are still on 2000 data there. Jamo2008 (talk) 15:10, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

McDowell County Courthouse
Looks good; the problem with the previous content (in my eyes) was that it was clearly copied from somewhere on Wikipedia, because the [2] wouldn't appear otherwise. Nyttend (talk) 22:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 September 2013
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AE discussion
Your name is mentioned at Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. You may not want to comment, but I felt obliged to inform you. --Orlady (talk) 03:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter for September 19, 2013
VisualEditor has been updated twice in the last two weeks. As usual, what is now running on the English Wikipedia had a test run at Mediawiki during the previous week.

As announced, the toolbar was redesigned to be simpler, shorter, and to have the ability to have drop-down groups with descriptions. What you see now is the initial configuration and is expected to change in response to feedback from the English Wikipedia and other Wikipedias. The controls to add  (underline),   (subscript), and   (superscript),   (strikethrough) and   (computer code/monospace font) annotations to text are available to all users in the drop-down menu. At the moment, all but the most basic tools have been moved into a single drop-down menu, including the tools for inserting media, references, reference lists, and templates. The current location of all of the items in the toolbar is temporary, and your opinions about the best order are needed! Please offer suggestions at VisualEditor/Feedback/Toolbar.

In an eagerly anticipated upgrade to the reference dialog, newly added references or reference groups no longer need the page to be saved before they can be re-used (bugs 51689 and 52000). The 'Use existing reference' button is now disabled on pages which don't yet have any references (bug 51848). The template parameter filter in the transclusion dialog now searches both parameter name and label (bug 51670).

In response to several requests, there are some new keyboard shortcuts. You can now set the block/paragraph formatting from the keyboard: Ctrl sets a block as a regular paragraph; Ctrl up to Ctrl sets it as a Heading 1 ("Page title") to Heading 6 ("Sub-heading 4"); Ctrl sets it as pre-formatted (bug 33512). Ctrl, which creates level 2 section headings, may be the most useful.

Some improvements were made to capitalization for links, so typing in "iPhone" will offer a link to "iPhone" as well as "IPhone" (bug 50452).

Copying and pasting within the same document should work better as of today's update, as should copying from VisualEditor into a third-party application (bug 53364, bug 52271, bug 52460). Work on copying and pasting between VisualEditor instances (for example, between two articles) and retaining formatting when copying from an external source into VisualEditor is progressing.

Major improvements to editing with input method editors (IMEs; mostly used for Indic and East Asian languages) are being deployed today. This is a complex change, so it may produce unexpected errors. On a related point, the names of languages listed in the "languages" (langlinks) panel in the Page settings dialog now display as RTL when appropriate (bug 53503).

Looking ahead: The help/'beta' menu will soon expose the build number next to the "Leave feedback" link, so users can give more specific reports about issues they encounter (bug 53050). This change will make it easier for developers to identify any cacheing issues, once it starts reporting the build number (currently, it says "Version false"). Also, inserting a link, reference or media file will put the cursor after the new content again (bug 53560). Next week’s update will likely improve how dropdowns and other selection menus behave when they do not fit on the screen, with things scrolling so the selected item is always in view.

If you are active at other Wikipedias, the next group of Wikipedias to have VisualEditor offered to all users is being finalized. About two dozen Wikipedias are on the list for Tuesday, September 24 for logged-in users only, and on Monday, September 30 for unregistered editors. You can help with translating the documentation. In several cases, most of the translation is already done, and it only needs to be copied over to the relevant Wikipedia. If you are interested in finding out whether a particular Wikipedia is currently on the list, you can leave a message for me at my talk page.

For other questions or suggestions, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting problem reports at VisualEditor/Feedback and other ideas at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 September 2013
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Locust Grove, King and Queen County, Virginia
You may be interested in Articles for deletion/Locust Grove, King and Queen County, Virginia: I've linked to a section on this talk page as part of my rationale. Nyttend (talk) 05:02, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 September 2013
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Close paraphrase issue
You've indicated here that much of the history section of McDowell County, West Virginia is a close paraphrase, but I am unclear about the source. I checked out the Lewis book, and see that it is a source, but that doesn't appear to be the one copied or paraphrased.

Can you identify the source? Is it online? if not, would you be willing to remove the material? Ideally rewrite, but removal would be a good first step.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:41, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * (BTW, if you care about football, nice rebound against OK State).-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:42, 30 September 2013 (UTC)