User talk:Variegate

Speedy deletion of OutCentral
A tag has been placed on OutCentral, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read our the guidelines on spam as well as the Business' FAQ for more information.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Booglamay (talk) 00:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edit to American Nurses Association was reversed
We don't insert external links into the body of an article. If the organization is not notable enough to have its own Wikipedia article, then don't link its name to an outside website. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  18:58, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Was trying to create that page, and could not find the option.  So, stuck that in until I could figure it out. Besides, I thought the whole point of Wikipedia was to share information, not to force users to stay and read only in Wikepedia.  In the meantime, it would be helpful to get a series of pages set up for all the state and other nursing organizations that can be expanded on, especially if we can't link out to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Variegate (talk • contribs)
 * All you have to do is put two square brackets on each side of the name of the group, click on the red link, and start typing. We don't link to outside websites because they are not subject to our control (including our quality control) and thus are not suitable hyperlinks. See WP:EL for a much lengthier explanation of our rules and the reasoning behind them. As to the organizations: many of them are not going to meet our standards for notability among organizations. If you know of groups that are, of course, I encourage you to create such articles. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  20:03, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the rapid feedback. You might note from the history that I tried this one other time, and was told the group was self-promoting.  But, the point is to create the pages and under wiki guidelines to get discussion going and users filling in the history. The first group I want to put out there is the Tennessee Nurses Association, which will be providing me with a lengthy history.  We want to document how it was formed, who was involved, how they have affected legislation and practice, especially in regards to racial history, advanced practice nursing, and so on.  Do you feel that will meet Wiki standards?  The guidelines are extremely vague, and seem to be a matter of political perspective between educating the public on the value of organizations and their history from an individual perspective versus a communal one.   However, these group strongly impact the sociological, political, and cultural perspective, especially in the US.  If you could also point me to a formatting guide, I'd appreciate that. --[User:Variegate] 15:12, 13 July 2011 (CST)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tennessee Nurses Association


A tag has been placed on Tennessee Nurses Association requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. PTJoshua (talk) 21:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tennessee Nurses Association


A tag has been placed on Tennessee Nurses Association requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. PTJoshua (talk) 21:14, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Why the article was deleted
You said : I am a representative of this organization, an ANCC Board Certified Informatics Nurse Specialist, and hoping to set up web pages to inform on the history of all state nursing organizations and their PAC work, how it has affected healthcare and patients in the US. The TNA will be providing me a more extensive history in the next 36 hours, which I can add. We hope to show all past presidents and others. As you may know, the ARRA/HITECH act among other changes has affected practice and climate in the US. The point is to document this ongoing activity for history and research, not to create debate. All information will be of an informative nature. BTW, this page was templated off the Texas Nursing Association, which also stands without deletion, so if this one goes, that one should too along with other PACS. I looked for an article called "Texas Nursing Association" but I didn't find it. If you can point me to it, I will delete that as well, if it is in violation of copyright. It could be great if there were an article on the Tennessee Nurses Association, but we cannot use material under copyright unless it is specifically licensed for Wikipedia use. -- SPhilbrick  T  21:40, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. FYI, the speedy deletion in less than an hour makes it impossible for someone working a full-time job to contribute to Wiki, and is harming Wiki more than helping, IMHO. So, how am I supposed to go about creating the page now? What do you need to verify that I have TNA authority to copy their materials and history for Wiki posterity? After you moved all the note on the talk, all the links went away, btw. So, it made it appear accepted until I searched. Toward that, may I ask you to PLEASE slow down, give people a chance, and talk and help first? If you had given me enough time and direction on what you feel is unfairly copyrighted, I could have save us both time, fixed it, and brought something to the Wiki community. Agreed? No one is going to sue Wiki in less than an hour, and your notes would be enough to defend an investigation. I encourage you not to take this personally, and understand you're trying to be a community monitor, but such haste does that a disservice. Feel free to email to verify my claims. Otherwise, if you want to kindly restore the page, I'll simply rewrite in my own words. Or, do you want one of them to create an account, log in, and start it? Surely there is a method for valid organizations to document their history, and allow volunteers to help them? Thank you understanding and helping. I have looked over the page now on license permission and asked the organization to submit the formal form. In the meantime, am happy to rewrite if you restore. Variegate (talk) 22:30, 13 July 2011 (UTC)Variegate Additional Note: The Texas Nurses Association page, which I bookmarked, was apparently spotted by someone else and deleted in the interim as well, including links to it from a couple of other pages. I noted that the majority of nursing pages seem to be getting deleted, or are not created, such as here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nurses_Credentialing_Center. There is a LOT of room to improve in this area. And, again, I want to do this. Please provide guidance on getting there in clear terms. I note copyright allows this "place OTRS pending on the article's discussion page," pending receipt of the email confirming permission as well. TNA is going to send this (one of the three people I sent you the email for). It is going to make it darned near impossible to do this for every state organization, which is really ashame because it will deprive the Wiki community of a lot of history if I can't get anyone at those orgs to help. But, I guess I take the long route then of rewriting all of the material to avoid copyright rules, correct? Thank you again. Variegate (talk) 22:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no deadline; Wikipedia is not harmed by having an article not appear for a day or two while we make sure we are in accordance with statutes. You would be better off trying to find reliable sources of information about these organizations, since their own publications lack the requisite neutral point of view. Otherwise, the articles will be deleted anyway. After all, if nobody else writes about these organizations, that's prima facie evidence that they are not notable. Also: a minor formatting tip: omit all honorifics and vanity initials from these articles: Dr., M.D., RN, CN, MSW, Ph.D., etc.; they are not in accordance with our manual of style, and will be purged mercilessly. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  23:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC) (a Tennessee native and former union public health worker his own self)
 * I appreciate your patience as I work on this. But, I do have to disagree with your note that "After all, if nobody else writes about these organizations, that's prima facie evidence that they are not notable."  It just means that either no one has had the time or interest, or couldn't spend the extraordinary amount of time it takes to get things developed, especially these days with all the debate.  But, as an adjunct professor at two different colleges (one national, one TN), I can tell you my students have looked and have a need of this information.  And, that my fellow nurses need to know this information for many reasons, which I hope to flush out if we can survive these "merciless purges." I did also find the Nurses documentation group and hope to enlist their help in building out other state organizations.  What did you do as a TN union public health worker, btw?  Have you written on it?  Thinking if I saw your writings on it, it could be a guide.  Where also can I find information on use of honorifics and what you term "vanity initials," which I understand may be policy, but serve a purpose to distinguish education, training, and certifications of expertise, especially when telling a history of the progression of such. In an encyclopaedic knowledge base, as a way to convey information about the profession, I'd even say they're crucial.  Thank you again.Variegate (talk) 01:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * 1. Our very definition of notability, means that somebody other than the subject must have written a substantial amount about the subject.
 * 2. "It's useful" is not a valid argument for creating or retaining an article in Wikipedia.
 * 3. I was a Tennessee public worker, and later was a proudly union public health worker (State of Wisconsin), before moving on to another agency.
 * 4. We don't "do" honorifics here in Wikipedia; we just don't. You may describe a specific job title or degree, but no "Dr. Alice Smith, Ph.D., RN, MSW, CDI, FMLA" is permitted. "Alice Smith" is how we do it. -- Orange Mike   &#x007C;   Talk  02:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)