User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee/Archive 2

Re: Juve 2
Hi - carrying on here so I don't have to scroll as much! Yes, I saw Blatter stepped down, surprisingly; maybe some new information has surfaced. Hopefully the authorities can help clean FIFA up, and prevent someone whom Blatter has already lined up from taking over and carrying on running things in the same corrupt manner.

Yes, the bad news about Chiellini is a big blow, not just because of his quality defensively (especially up against Barcelona's front three), but also because of his leadership and the effect he has on motivating and carrying the team. He has been unfortunate with injuries prior to big finals; first Euro 2012, now the Champions League final, although it's probably better that he is left out if he isn't fit. I hope Barzagli is at least, so he can play alongside Bonucci. Such a shame that Caceres is also still out with an ankle injury, if not he might have been able to fill in as well; now only Ogbonna is available on the bench - unfortunately he hasn't quite lived up to expectations, but then again he is still quite young for a defender, and he is already quite quick, strong, and good on the ball, so if he improves defensively as he gains experience, then he will definitely be an excellent, well-rounded defender for us. Hopefully the team can pick it up in Chiellini's absence, but it really is a shame. I was also curious to see Luis Suarez and Chiellini face each other for the first time after the biting incident; even though Chiellini has played down the incident and has insisted he doesn't care about it anymore, I don't entirely believe that, and I think it would have been an interesting duel, as he probably would have wanted to get the best of Suarez. At the same time, he does get too physical, clumsy, and aggressive at times, and they have not been very lenient with him in Europe in that respect (sometimes quite unfairly and harshly actually, like with James Rodriguez's penalty...), so that could have been a worry due to the past incident, and the competitive nature of the match. That isolated aggressive challenge he made on Cristiano Ronaldo in Turin at least really seemed to indicate that he was still holding a grudge against him from Juve's match against Real last year, when Cristiano Ronaldo's dive got Chiellini unfairly sent off! Anyway, fingers crossed, and hopefully Juve can pull off a surprise win; it's been too long, and I miss our 90s dominance in the tournament (can't believe we only won it once back then; 3 consecutive finals and one semi-final!). We have too few titles compared to finals, and it would also be nice for Pirlo to win it as well, and go out with a bang, if the rumours are indeed true and he does decide to leave for MLS this summer. Forza Juve! Best, Messirulez (talk) 02:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, yes there are definitely moments when Chiellini can scare you because he is too aggressive and the risk of him getting a red card or giving a penalty is quite high. I think if Juve win the CL, Pirlo will be more likely to leave. I also heard that Juve are expecting to be revampted this summer with heavy linked departures of Tevez, Llorente, Pogba, and Vidal. With the influx of Dybala and Kehdera. In my opinion if all these players were to leave, I think it would be a big, big mistake. When your team is winning, I do not think you should mess with it much. I don't know, but it would be pretty upsetting to me if they all leave, and do not think they would be at the same caliber if they all leave at once. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 11:36, 5 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It's difficult because now certain players are getting older, so they do need to think about bringing in a new generation of players, although we already have some promising young players out on loan. Buffon, Barzagli and Evra will certainly need replacing soon, although it is sad to see seeing how great their careers have been. Caceres could possibly fill in for Lichsteiner in the future as a right back. Although Juve earned a lot this season from the progress made in the Champions League and through their own Stadium, I don't think we have the financial power to compete with other large European clubs yet, so Pogba might go soon if we get a very good offer (i.e. something similar to what Real paid for Bale, or even a top player and some cash in exchange for him), which is a shame, but then again, when we sold Zidane in 2001, we managed to rebuild our entire team, and in 2010, Inter did the same buy selling Ibra. I know Tevez had said in the passt that he would like to go to Boca next year, so he is someone we will need to replace up front, which won't be easy as he helps the team defensively, creatively and in terms of goals, but he is also getting older. I hadn't heard about Llorente - he hasn't been great this year but he's still a good player to have on the bench I suppose, although he is also getting up there with age. I didn't hear any rumours about Vidal either, but I don't think he will be leaving at this point, and I certainly hope not - it seemed like he would lave for Man United last year but in the end he didn't. Khedira is a good purchase, but he has been quite injury prone as of recent, which worries me, especially as his playing style is more based on physique and stamina, and he's not getting any younger, and he's not very quick. Dybala seems to be a talented player, but he was very expensive...and when players are that young it is hard to judge them based on one season (e.g. Iturbe), so I wish we hadn't spent quite that much on him, but hopefully he will live up to expectations and it will have been a worthwhile purchase. I also hope Berardi can carry on scoring in a consistent manner, because he seems to be one for the future both for Italy and Juve - hopefully he will do well at the under-21 European Championship this summer; we have a tough group. Messirulez (talk) 14:01, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, It is what I read from an article on Eurosport, who knows if it is true. I agree that Tevez needs to be replaced soon by younger talent like Dybala, etc., however with Pogba for example, he is already young talent, so why trade him? And even with Buffon, I think he could be able to stay for a few more years because he is a goalkeeper, and they can usually stay around longer and having someone as experienced as Buffon is just too good to give up, even if he is a bit older. Plus Buffon probably would not want to go anywhere else but Juventus. And when Inter sold Ibra to "rebuild", they were in 6th place a season or two after followed by ninth and then eighth this year. It will take time to rebuild if a powerhouse is sold like that. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 20:36, 5 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I saw the transfer rumours only now. Hmm...who knows! I usually don't believe anything anymore until it has been made official, because there have been so many disappointments in the past! I remember in 2011 when there were ridiculous rumours that Suarez or Rossi would go to Juve, and then we ended up with Vucinic, who was solid in Serie A, but not superstar quality... Regarding Pogba, the only reason to sell him would be if we received an exorbitant amount of money, which would then allow us to buy a player to replace him, as well as some other good players in other positions, in order to strengthen the squad, otherwise, yes, I agree, he's young talented, and well-rounded, so there would be no reason to sell him; I would probably wait until he's a bit older anyway, as I have a feeling he will do will at the Euro next summer, on home soil. Unlike teams such as Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Real, and Barcelona, however, we can't spend 40-70 million on a player each season, so unless we make some pre-meditated and intelligent gambles with players who were underrated (like we did with Vidal, Tevez, Pirlo, Pogba, Evra, Barzagli, etc.), I don't really see how we can compete financially at the moment, and attract star players, unless we manage to sell one of our players for a lot of money, although, then again, with our achievements in Europe this summer, and having our own stadium and a well-run club under this management team (also in terms of international publicity), I do feel that the club's financial situation is improving, and can improve further, so I might not be entirely correct there, but it's just an opinion. I find the general financial situation in Italy very frustrating, however, as in contemporary football, players are especially overpriced; there is no way that Bale was worth as much as Cristiano Ronaldo when he was sold to Real Madrid, and even James Rodriguez, as good as he is, to me that sum was also exaggerated, as was David Luiz's price tag; it makes me wonder how much defenders like Maldini, Cannavaro, Costacurta, Tassotti, Nesta, Baresi, Bergomi, Vierchowod would go for if they played now... Buffon could well play for a few more years if he stays at this level, but we need to have someone ready and gain experience from him for when he does actually retire, although hopefully Leali will continue to mature, and we won't have to look elsewhere for a replacement (even though, in reality, Buffon is impossible to replace, but there are still quite a few talented young Italian keepers around at the moment). The comparison with Inter in 2010 probably wasn't the best example of rebuilding on my part, yes, as that was merely a short-term solution, seeing as they bought Lucio, Milito, Thiago Motta, and Eto'o after selling Ibra, who were all reaching the end of their prime, but I just meant it was an example of efficient and intelligent management and use of funds, as they achieved the objective of winning the champions league. Unfortunately Inter had been heavily in debt for some time because they don't own the San Siro, and the club had been mismanaged, so that year, they didn't even buy anyone with all their treble winnings, which was a mistake because, as you pointed out, two seasons later, they turned into a mid-table side. Thoughts?


 * Messirulez Yeah, rebuilding can take along time to really work out after a few seasons. It just seems that when you have a team that has finally performed in Europe and as well as Serie A, it is hard to let the team break up from a fans perspective since you have been seeing them win. In the moment it could be a good decision to bring on new talent, but then again it is risky since they might not perform. It is a hit or miss sometimes, especially if they are only just realized. And James's signing with Madrid was obviously just a big "in the moment" signing just because he played well in a couple games at the World Cup. He is very good, but t was hype from the World Cup, just as the signing of Navas was. It is upsetting that such historic teams like Milan and Inter are now mid-table teams like you said. It would be a shame if that were to happen to Juventus, God forbid, a few years latter with some gamble signings they may make. And with Buffon, it is true that no one can replace him, but obviously it is inevitable. I just love the energy and presence he brings to the pitch, it is overwhelming, and hard to replace. I do not think Khedira would be able to replace half the quality Pirlo has, even though Pirlo is eight years older. As a type of midfielder Pirlo is all you need to do really is know how to pass the ball in every rendition there is, which he does so well. I would want Pirlo on the pitch just for the shear quality of his freekicks when he gets from good range :) I guess we will just have to wait and see. Things will be finalized sooner after tomorrows game. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I understand the concern; I don't think they will change the team all at once though, that would be very jarring, so hopefully just bit by bit; sports journalism is sensationalist these days, so some transfer rumours are more than likely exaggerated! I'm certain the whole Mess-Luis Enrique drama was all invented by the media, for example, just like the Baggio-Del Piero rivalry in 98. I might be wrong, but to me, what happened to Milan and Inter was different because the clubs were in such debt after the scandal, and hadn't really rebuilt. Milan all of a sudden lost their old guard (Gattuso, Ambrosini, Nesta, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Pirlo, etc.), as well as Ibra and Thiago Silva, in one go, so that was a drastic change, and they were left with young players who had no experience, and the environment seems to be quite negative, which must be why some players aren't performing well at the moment who looked promosing in the past (Poli, De Sciglio, Nocerino). Juventus already went through a dark period, and they seem to have overcome it (hopefully), and are in a better financial state thatn other Italian clubs, so I don't think we will face the same problems. Now Milan, Roma, and Inter slowly seem to be on the right track with their new owners, and the new stadia, so hopefully they can recover with time. Football teams also go in cycles, but Inter have always been a mystery to me. Up until the five years after the calciopoli scandal, they always had incredible teams, but never won anything; some former players said that it was just the environment which was awful and disorganised, so that must play a part. To think that in 2000, under Lippi, they had Peruzzi, Cordoba, Zanetti, Panucci, Blanc, Di Biagio, Seedorf, Baggio, Pirlo, Moriero, Recoba, Vieri, Ronaldo, Zamorano, Mutu... with a team like that, why were they so terrible?! Regarding Khedira, no, you're right, he definitely wouldn't be an actual replacement for Pirlo, as he is completely different in terms of his playing style, being a genuine defensive midfielder. He is a good player though, and we would just have to play in a different manner, which wasn't so dependent on one playmaker, which might also alleviate the pressure as well. Pirlo is probably the one player who is so difficult to replace because he is so unique; I've never seen anyone with his vision and long passing ability (not Xabi Alonso, not Albertini, not Koeman, not Guardiola, not Scholes, not Beckham...), plus he's good on the ball, and he is also one of the best free-kick takers I have ever seen. The closest player to him at the moment is possibly Verratti, but he is quite a different player already, more aggressive, hard-working, quicker, and just not quite as creative; he doesn't quite have Pirlo's passing range, but he is still extremely technical, and a great, inventive passer and playmaker. Rather than finding a literal replacement, it's a probably more a question of finding a good, well-rounded player to replace him, preferably who is creative, with good technique, vision and passing, and hopefully who is quick and hard-working, and the team would have to adapt to playing in a different style. Hopefully the Juve players give it their all tomorrow and can win the trophy; that would certain give the team confidence for the future and attract more players to the club! Avanti Juve! Best, Messirulez (talk) 02:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez, that game was very intense and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. When Rakatic got that early goal, I was like oh no, bad start, but I knew Juve could get back in it. When Morata scored that goal to tie it up, I was going insane with my buddies, but knew there was a lot of time left. After Morata's goal Juve were full of life and started to get good shots on. When I saw Messi bolting down the field, someone had to put a challenge on him no matter if it was worth getting a yellow, when you see him coming down with pace, you stop him. Then he strikes and a nice rebound to Suarez. I truly believed Juve could still get another goal to tie it up, even though there were just over 20 minutes left. Juve still played with a lot of passion, and the referee was definitely not helping us out a lot. A couple good chances in stoppage time, but just not enough. Then in the final seconds after our freekick, Barca comes on a counter attack, I think it was when it was 5 on 3, cannot remember, and then got the "salt in the wound" third goal. That was very upsetting as a 3-1 score line does not depict how well Juve actually played, and how close the game really was. The amount of attempts on target were fairly even, however Juve's ball possession was absolutely atrocious, around only 35%. I think our defence played fairly well, given the absence of Chiellini. However, I felt whenever we had possession, we would somehow make a stupid pass and give it up right away again. Very fustrating to finally get possession and then fritter it away. Buffon played marvelous and made some really nice saves. The only hick-up was when he stupidly passed it down the width of his box to Lichstiener I think, and one of the MSN picked up on the pass and cut it out and almost scored. Those little passes in your own area that Italian defence and Buffon love to do, make me very anxious. Very proud of Juve for making it this far, but you always want the cup, and is sad to see them get all the way to the finals and then be defeated. It showed the world what they "already" knew, which is sad. Everyone likes an underdog. Especially since Buffon was not able to lift the trophy since it is the only cup he virtually has not won. Very sad to see Pirlo cry at the end there :(, hopefully it is not his last game, and can be part of Juventus's squad next year when they try again to grasp the trophy. Hopefully Italy can get an all important win on Friday against Croatia for the 2016 Euro Qualifiers, as Norway are creeping up behind us. Le sconfitte possono capitare ma la Juve si puo solo amare, sempre Juventus! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm very disappointed; it always seemed like we would have needed a miracle to win, but it seemed like the odds were somehow in our favour, especially when Morata equalised - I was also hoping we could lift it 30 years after the Heysel tragedy, which would have been a very emotional win. It was annoying that the counter-attack for the second goal occurred almost right after the possible penalty call on Pogba which was waived (I wouldn't have given it personally, but at the same time, Sergio Ramos earned a penalty against us last season because Chiellini had his arm aroung him - Brazil also received a similar one against Croatia at the last World Cup, so they have been given...and you can be sure that if it had happened to Suarez or Neymar, they would have awarded it!). It was annoying that Suarez of all people had to score when he probably should have been banned for the whole season for his behaviour; it was also very frustrating when he was staying down for long stretches of time, feigning injury (same with Busquets). He's an outstanding footballer, but not a very likeable character. Seeing their players flop in general was annoying, although Vidal was doing the same I suppose! We had our chances even though they definitely dominated, and we could have even tied it, which is both unfortunate and frustrating; Tevez had a bad match and he wasted a few shots. Ball possession is something I usually ignore against Barcelona, because most of their possession occurred when we were sitting behind the ball with two narrow lines. We still used possession efficiently, and in the end, apart from their early goal, their other two came from counter-attacks. Buffon played really well and deserved to win it. That pass was risky, but at the same time, Barcelona always do that in their own half, so Lichsteiner should really have been quicker to go to the ball when I'm sure team-mates told him he had a man running onto him, and Buffon probably didn't want to waste possession with a long kick, especially as the team was stretched, so Barca would have had space to play. It's tricky to decide what to do when they are so quick at pressing you regardless, however. It was sad seeing Pirlo so upset, but it shows how passionate he is, although he has been past his best since his injury against Dortmund in my opinion; he's making more mistakes in possession, set-pieecs, and with passes which he would have never made in the past, although he is still a legend. Still, he made a good pass to Pogba, who wasted possession in a good area, and his corner created a good chance which was headed over unfortunately. Seeing Xavi come on for 10 minutes and not do anything, but then lift the trophy made me a bit bitter, as I have always felt that Pirlo was unfairly underrated, unlike Xavi, and has only gained attention in his 30s after dominating England at Euro 2012, when he was phenomenal for Milan for 10 years, and for Italy in 2006, and he didn't have Iniesta alongside him. But Xavi is still a phenomenal player, so no direspect to him. Bonucci and Barzagli were excellent as well I thought, even without Chiellini, and so was Marchisio; his backheel to start the play for the equaliser was fantastic, and it's a shame his late strike couldn't go in. Vidal was ok, but he made a mistake on the first goal; he was ball-watching, and should never have let Iniesta beat him, especially as he's faster than the Spaniard. I thought we kept the front-line quite quiet for the most part, which was quite impressive, and despite the amount of stars they have, I think no one individual really stood, but rather, they played well as a team, and the victory was a team effort more than anything. I was impressed with how well they did in defence today of all days, I must say. I guess it's a small consolation to think that they completely dominated teams like PSG, Man City, and Bayern, who are much richer and more well equipped than Juve, so we played very well. The third goal was a joke, and disrespectful on Neymar's part, which annoyed me even more; it was unnecessary, I don't see why the ref didn't just call time by then, as it was 2-1 and the match was over. And it annoys me how UEFA and FIFA are still always obsessed with Iniesta (naming him in the team of the year last season!? Player of the tournament at Euro 2012, when to me David Silva, although nowhere near as good a player, was more important. And Pirlo was obviously the star that tournament; I don't think Iniesta would have dragged Italy to the final on his own playing against England and Germany...). Iniesta played well, and he is an incredible player, one of the best ever in his position, but now, he's no longer the player he once was, so enough is enough sometimes (like when Messi won the ballon d'Or in 2010 over Sneijder, or Cristiano Ronaldo in 2013 over Ribery). To me Rakitic was more important to the win (he scored the first goal, Iniesta made an easy pass, and Rakitic's ball unleashed Messi for the second goal), and I would have probably given the man of the match award either to him or to Buffon, who kept us in the game with two phenomenal saves, but they rarely award it to a losing player, and as Juve fan I might be biased. I don't know if we can pick it up from here and try and do well next year; it won't be easy. I really hope to see us win the trophy sometime soon; it's ridiculous that with barca, we have made the fourth most finals (8), but we have lost six of them. I would almost forget Serie A, since we've won everything in Italy these past 4 years, and just focus completely on Europe next season (just as long as we finish in second place in Serie A to pick up an automatic UCL qualifying spot). Apparently the team have earned a lot this season, so hopefully we can make some important purchases and aim for the semi-finals at least, although I don't know if we will get as favourable a draw next year. Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, agree with all your points. To be honest, I truned the T.V. off when the game was over, I can never watch the other team hold the cup, makes me very emotional. I think there should have been a call when Dani Alves took Pogba down in the box, Alves was literally ontop of Pogba! And it would have been nice to commemorate the lives lost in the Heysel tragedy as well like you said. It is also frustrating to see that we have gone to the finals 8 times and only won 2, more than any European club! That third goal really made me tick more than anything though. With the transfers that can go on this season, it is never a guarantee that the team will be able to reach this feat again, and like you said, our draw next year good be a lot worse than who we drew this year. But we did give a good run to Real Madrid, and think that we could have done it against PSG or Bayern as well. Barca was the best of them all, and probably the toughest draw. On the upside, Canada won their opener in the Women's World Cup yesterday, and TFC won over D.C. United with Giovinco getting 2 goals! Again, looking forward to the Italy game on Friday as well. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 15:02, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Ha, maybe Giovinco would have scored yesterday over Tevez...that is certainly a kick in the teeth, but good for him, I'm glad he's been playing well, and I hope he and TFC do well together; it's a shame as he always was very talented. I saw that during the last match he scored a very nice goal as well! Well, fingers crossed for next season, at least it's been a great season this year. And well done to the Canadian female team; I hope they can do well after the scandalous Olympic semi-final in 2012; what terrible refereeing! I still can't believe that they are playing their World Cup on artificial turf though! How awful that FIFA are allowing this, why!? It's different to play on, and they risk getting injured. If that happened in the men's tournament then it would have probably have been boycotted! Also sorry again about entirely deleting the other thread accidentally...I'm still trying to figure out how I did that exactly, I apologise, it was unintentional, and I wouldn't purposely ever delete something on your page! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 15:14, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, no worries, I know you wouldn't do something like that on purpose, wrong mouse click or something! ;) The turf is very bad. I hate playing on it myself, as I always get rash burns from sliding on it. We need a player like Giovinco on the bench so that in the dying moments we can sub on a guy that has lots of pace and can cause trouble for a tired defence. Llorente did not provide that yesterday. I was hearing rumours that Juve offerd Robin van Persie 5 million euros. There are even talks about Cavani! I think Cavani would be better as he is decently fast and has a good shot. We need someone like that. van Persie on the other hand is the same age as Tevez and buying him would be a waste of time and money in my opinion. I also saw an article that Buffon said he wants 3 more years at Juventus! I would like to see Buffon here as long as possible, even though he is older now. As I have said before, I just love his presence and he still makes great saves! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 15:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree with Cavani, and I think he could rediscover his form at Juve, and he has already played in Italy, so he knows the league and the environment. He's a well-rounded forward, and I think he needs a new start, and he has usually been quite prolific in Europe. Van Persie would have made sense when he went to United, and there were rumours that he was going to go to Juve...now, he's a bit too old, I agree, although he is definitely one of the top forwards of his generation, without a doubt, but not the player he used to be; also he's always struggled with injuries. Llorente came in too late; I didn't really see the point of the substitution. It would have been one thing to bring him in earlier to try and push up and win aerial balls and hold up the ball, but at that stage, there wasn't much time left. The one time he did well, he ended up losing the ball trying to take it past the whole team, which annoyed me as he could have passed it or drawn a foul. I saw that Buffon wants to stay, and if he keeps it up, then I would be happy to see him as he is important for the team, not just because of his saves, but for his leadership, determination, and motivation as well, as you said. Maybe he could also mentor a young back-up goalkeeper for the future these next few seasons, and if he ever can't keep up with age or fitness, an option might also be to play him in cup matches, and rotate him in Serie A a bit (sort of like Barca did with Bravo and Ter Stegen, or Real with Casillas and Diego Lopez - although that was also because Casillas has unfortunately sufferred a sever dip in form with age), and maybe in the Coppa Italia, but if he plays as he has been playing these past few seasons, then I don't think we need to worry, although I would like to get a younger keeper in with him to gain experience, who can be sent out on loan at first, and gradually introduced. Have a good weekend! Messirulez (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, I agree that if a younger keeper were to come in a a back up, Buffon could mentor him well, so when he does leave, the young keeper would be well trained. However Storari is there.. He has been there for a while, and is older than Buffon! He is a decent keeper as well though, especially when he made that terrific double save on Palacio and then Icardi against Inter. That was amazing! His passion is almost as big as Buffon's as well! One of them needs to go if they really want to mentor a young keeper properly. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I feel sorry for Storari, because he has shown himself to be a very capable keeper, who was overlooked in the past, and who could probably still start in a side competing for Europe, despite his advancing age; as you said, he played extremely well in the Coppa Italia, and even in Serie A when he has been used; even during the 2010-11 season, when Buffon was injured, he played well, despite the team doing so poorly that season. Certainly playing back-up to Buffon must not be easy; many good keepers have sufferred as a result, such as Toldo, Abbiati, Cudicini, Amelia, Marchetti, De Sanctis, and now even Sirigu, but at the same time, they have usually always been gracious, emphasising that Buffon is the greatest keeper of the past 30 years, and he is still performing at a world class level. Storari has always been very positive, however, and hard-working, and passionat as you have said, which is extremely important to the team; indeed in interviews many Juventus players have said that he is an important of the team, as a motivator, and for the morale of the group, etc. One keeper who I also believe was overlooked in the past was Sebastien Frey; I really think he should have been starting ahead of Barthez, and later Coupet, for France during the 2000s. I always thought Barthez was talented, reactive, and athletic (and very good with the ball at his feet), but highly overrated, due to his inconsistency and eccentricity, which made him unreliable, but I suppose he was an important part of the team, who had played together for a long time, and France's team during that period was so strong (defensively as well), that they didn't need to worry much about the keeper! Messirulez (talk) 01:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez, what did you think about Italia's performance today against Croatia? "Offside" goal by El Shaawary, and next play Croatia scores? The amount of opportunities Italia had, but just could not finish as they kept hitting it straight at the keeper? Canadreva played very well and played some good crosses where Pirlo, El Shaarawy, Pelle, and Marchisio should have done better. The Panenka penalty was so cheeky! :) Crotia sit at top with 14 points, Italy 12, Norway not far with 10, Bulgaria 8... Interested to hear what you think! ;) Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 01:31, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi! Well...since we are often unfarily stereotyped as fans who continually complain about refereeing decisions, I don't want to make it seem that I'm doing the same! Haha. Admittedly, although it was a valid goal, I was also initially unsure about El Shaarawy's goal, and it was difficult to see in real time as he was just in line; until they finally introduce video replay into the game, these mistakes will keep happening unfortunately, which is very annoying. What annoys me more is how after a controversial decision, an international referee can let play continue in that situation, when half of Italy's players were in Croatia's half, and when the resulting counter attack led to a goal. He should have stopped the play when that happened; after all, in the second half, he stopped Italy from taking a quick free kick to let Croatia bring on a substitute, so there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same. To make things worse, Mandzukic then accidentally clipped Buffon's knee when he scored, so Buffon got injured as a result - it was just frustrating overall. You can't blame the Croatian players for carrying on the play though, as any team would have done that; for me the ref should have stopped the play, and that was his responsibility. Having said that, although we got the equaliser, our performance was inconsistent, as it has often been recently. At times Croatia were given too much space, and we failed to take advantage of chances, of which we had plenty, as you have rightly said, and I'm annoyed we weren't able to win it. El Shaarawy still looks out of form unfortunately; poor guy, he's been so unfortunate with injuries, which is a shame as he has potential. His exchanges where inaccurate, he looked slower and less mobile then usual, and he struggled to beat opponents; he also missed a few good chances. Yes, we are missing a really good striker, like a Vieri, or Toni, Inzaghi, Rossi, Schillaci type player, who can just put it into the back of the net; Pellè isn't quite that, unfortunately, and I feel that our attack is our weakest point as we have continually dominated possession against most teams these past 5 years, but we have failed to score many goals, and then we have often conceded silly goals on one of the few occasions we gave the opposition a chance (i.e. 2014 World Cup...). I think our midfield is quite good, and definitely our strong point, and I also really like Candreva a lot (such an audacious penalty, especially when he had already done a chip against Casillas at the 2013 Confederations Cup in the semi-final shootout!). As much as I love Marchisio as a player, I feel he's a bit inconsistent for Italy at times (maybe it's just a temporary thing), but he works hard, is well-rounded and can still provide that creative spark, or take a good chance. Pirlo has definitely aged, and the injury this season has affected him, but he still helped on set pieces and he can put in an incredible pass out of nowhere still, but I think Verratti should be given more space once he is fit again. Parolo has had a good season, has a good shot, is quic, and works hard, but I'm not convinced by him and I like Florenzi better; I'm concerned De Rossi is getting old, and hopefully Poli will be able to regain form; I used to like him a lot as well, and he could be another option. This defence wasn't great, although we were missing both Chiellini and Barzagli; with them on the pitch, I think things would have have been better. Our full-backs aren't what they used to be, but then again Darmian and De Sciglio are still both quite young and have potential. They were inconsistent tonight, but despite a few mistakes they did do some positive things as well; I hope De Silvestri is ok - he didn't really have a chance to show much. Astori's challenge which gave away the penalty was ridiculous, however; I doubt he would have even been able to keep the ball in, what was the need to go in for a challenge!? Thankfully Buffon read the penalty well, if not we might have ended up losing the match, which would have put us in a difficult situation in the group, and apparently we would have been unseeded for the World Cup qualifying draw if we had lost this match. Croatia were quite quick upfront, which surprised me, and definitely gave us a lot trouble in the first half in partiular. That's my opinion at least, sorry for the usual excessive essay! haha. Messirulez (talk) 04:04, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, Don't worry, it is very interesting to hear your opinions and thoughts. I also heard that if they lost the game they would be put into the second pot instead of the first. Hopefully when we play teams like Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, and Malta again in the near future, we can get the necessary points and not only win by a slim margin! If you look at Croatia's goal difference it is +13, then ours is only +4! To me that says a lot to how the attack of a team performs, especially against lower tier teams that we have only beaten by one goal! Very frustrating as you said. Did you hear about the swastika that was etched into the field!? That was crazy and they are looking into it now... Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 14:31, 13 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree. It's very annoying to see how inefficient we are in front of goal, when we create chances and usually control possession and the attacking flow of most of the games we play, but we are missing great strikers; hopefully some promosing young Italian strikers can come to the forefront soon. It's ironic, because after Bearzot and Vicini's offensive Italy sides, Sacchi, Maldini and Il Trap didn't want to play offensive football, when we had many excellent strikers, as well as supporting forwards who could also find the back of the net (thankfully Zoff was there for Euro 2000 and Lippi in 2006)...now we had Prandelli first, and currently Conte who want to return to a more stylish brand of football, and we are lacking good strikers! To be fair to Sacchi, he did have an exciting, offensive style in mind, but he was being too restrictive on the team, and by the time he coached Italy, I think his tactics were more widely adopted and as a result less innovative than they had been with Milan, so I think his stubbornness was his downfall in that case (furthermore, he isn't the most likeable person, and he doesn't help himself by saying controversial things in interview), plus we didn't have a Van Vasten to compliment Baggio, and Signori was played out of position. Yes, that's horrible about the swastika...I'm not sure who is responsible for that but that is truly disgusting. I really don't like it when these things come into football, it ruins the game, just as when the fans become violent, and offensive, and make racist chants; I hope these terrible things, among many others, can soon be cut out of football entirely. Will you be watching the Copa America as well as the Women's World Cup this spring/summer? Messirulez (talk) 01:22, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, yes I hope that these racist and violent acts can soon be cut out of football as well. However, you always have crazy unruly and disrespectful fans, especially in calcio for some reason. I haven't really seen any Copa America games this year yet airing on T.V. When the tournament is near the semis and the finals, that is usually when they start airing it. I heard about Chile's win and Uruguay's win though. Did you hear what Cavani said in an interview about Jamaica? "Like any African team they will come out strong" Hahaha, that was funny as Jamaica are in the Caribbean, not Africa, which Cavani obviously did not know his geography. Apparently they are a "guest" in the Copa America, doesn't really make sense to me though... As for the Women's World Cup, I am mostly watching just the Canada games. Canada vs. New Zealand the other night was frustrating as Nayler, the New Zealand keeper played very well ending in a goalless draw. I heard about Germany demolishing Ivory Coast however, those highlights were exciting. Canada's group is pretty tight and we need a result against the Netherlands. Surprising that Italy's women's national team did not qualify for the World Cup since 1999, even though they last to Netherlands in the finals of the playoff qualifications. I am also looking forward to the U-21 Euros, even though Italy are in a tough group as you've said before. Hopefully they will air most of the games where I am from. I even noticed the U-20 World Cup currently taking place. Italy did not qualify I guess, as I do not see them in it. Not very promising. There are teams like Mali in the tournament which I find odd, but I don't know much about this tournament. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 03:49, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, you can't always do much about people that have a violent or disrespectful disposition (except ban them from later entering the stadium), but I think in some places it is especially serious, compared to say the UK or North America, where fans seem to be quite respectful. Yes, I heard about Cavani's blunder; I know that in the past some Northern and Central American teams have played in the Copa America as guests, as there simply aren't enough teams to make four groups of four otherwise. Mexico almost always take part, which is also nice because they are a good team, and they help make it a better tournament. I remember that Japan even took part once, which was quite surprising, as they aren't even an American team! It's a shame the Italian team didn't qualify for the Women's World Cup; I hope Women's football gets more exposure in future. I really hope Italy can do well in the Under-21 Euros, and yes, we have a very tough group, but we have some promosing players; I hope Berardi can shine. I don't know how great a coach Di Biagio is, but he was a very good, smart player, quite similar to De Rossi, very well-rounded defensively and also as a playmaker, and he was also good in the air and at shooting from distance, so I could see him having a good understanding of the game. Regarding the under-20 world Cup, I'm not 100% sure on this, so don't take my word, but I think that the Italy under-20 team and the under-20 world cup isn't really considered to be important, for some reason (don't ask me why, as almost every other country takes it seriously!), but most of the best young players always play in the under-21 side, regardless of their age group, and they take part in the under-21 European Championship instead; I don't know why, as other European teams still take part and do well in both. Then if they end up being really good, they get called up to the senior team; I know this happened with Buffon, Nesta, Maldini, Albertini, Del Piero in the past. Messirulez (talk) 04:21, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, today's game against Portugal was even more frustrating than the Croatia game! Even though it was just a friendly, it does count towards the world rankings. Italy is really struggling on their finishing. In the end there Portugal's goalie had to make some nice stops, but earlier in the game we were not getting enough of our shots on net. Eder's goal was a great goal however, beautiful sprint and footwork up the pitch by Quaresima and then that outside boot cross into the middle with Eder's finish was an excellent goal. Too bad Conte's unbeaten record as Italy manager is now tarnished. Off that corner in the dying minutes when it just fell to Ranocchia and he shot that wide, I was just like: HOW!? Ahh, finishing, finishing, finishing. Thoughts? Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 20:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, very frustrating; even though it's a friendly, I'm annoyed about the defeat. We didn't play particularly well (we rarely do in friendlies, after all!), and Portugal, aside from Ronaldo, are nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be (especially Cristiano Ronaldo...they have a good defence, a decent keeper, some decent midfielders and wingers), but we still dominated overall but couldn't convert, and should have done better considering they lacked a persistent goal-threat like him (to think that even in 2008, with an inexperienced Donadoni and an ageing, declining side, we managed to completely nullify him). I really think friendlies should count for almost nothing towards the ranking; apparently the defeat caused us to lose the top-seeded position for the WOrld Cup qualifying draw, which is ridiculous. It's a shame Candreva's throughball didn't quite make it through in the first half; that was an amazing pass! And it's too bad that Bonucci hit the post and El SHaaraway couldn't hit the target. Bonucci didn't play well, apart from the post; he didn't defend well on the goal (no-one did, especially in the build-up and on the flank, even though that is Quaresma's trademark cross with the outside of the right boot to Eder - great finish), and he made a poor decision in passing it back to Sirigu when he was under pressure and needed to take a touch because it was on the side of his left foot - thankfully the resulting shot was cleared. I thought Pirlo did quite well considering his age; he had some nice set piece deliveries and the pass to Darmian was fantastic. Unfortunately the game has evolved in a way that there are not many traditional centre-forwards; in a way, it is good that these forwards have developed, as they were notorious for having a poor workrate and lacking technique in the past (although there are several notable exceptions, like Ronaldo, Vieri, Van Basten, Weah, Eto'o, Morientes, Nuno Gomes, etc.), but at the same time, they same to be less capable of converting, and lacking a notable aerial threat and avoiding crossing hinders wing play, and makes it more difficult to score goals in general against defensive teams; at least, that seems to be Italy's problem, as other teams have strikers that put chances away well, although even Brazil lack a true striker. Messirulez (talk) 11:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez Yes, Pirlo played well, and thought we played decent and dominated Portugal like you said, however the lack of finishing got the better of us. Hopefully they can take a nice rest over the summer and be ready to open the Euro 2016 qualifiers again with some oomph in September. In regards to the seeding I really think that this loss in a friendly after all should not have an impact. It is true that Italy missed out on the seeding because of it since the draw is very close in 25 July. Take a look at this article: http://www.espnfc.us/world-cup-qualifying-uefa/story/2494280/italy-miss-out-on-world-cup-qualifying-seeding  ..... "It means that Italy, who will be joined in pot 2 by France, could be drawn with one of their fellow European heavyweights in either Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, England, Portugal or Spain. They will hope to get lucky and be in a group with either Romania or Wales, who are the other nations in pot 1." I actually find it laughable that Romania has made it into pot 1 when Italy and France did not. Now we will have to play with another strong team, but think that it is still bearable if we do not get Germany (even though Italy usually wins against Germany for some reason!). We are battling with Croatia in the Euro qualifying now and think that they are a really good team as well almost as good in quality as England, Portugal, or Belgium for example. We will have to wait for the draw on 25 July, however it is really disappointing that we could not pull it together to get the job done.. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 14:33, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, it's like when we always chat about Italy, it is always disappointing... Today's under-21 match against Sweden, thought we started out dominating, the play to draw the penalty was really good and Berardi finished it off nicely sending the goile the other way. Even with the red card to Sweden in the 30th minute, we did not play like we were up a man and capitalize on the situation. Bad corner given to Sweden, with a man not picked up on the far side and just a ball played into the box to be cleaned up by Guidetti (ironic he has Italian roots!) Then that penalty Italy gave in the last four minutes was very costly, and sent Bardi the wrong way. What a shame, Sweden given a crucial win and Italy still have to face off Portugal and England. Does not look good at the moment. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 18:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, very disappointing indeed! Not a very convincing performance, and a very poor result, considering we still need to play two strong teams like England and Portugal (although I still think on paper we have a team that can qualify for the next round). Well done to Sweden who deserved the win in the end, and made a comeback with a man less for most the match. We didn't play as a team (a few players were quite individualistic), and even though we controlled possession well, as you said, we didn't really create all that much. I thougth that once they got the equaliser (which we shouldn't have conceded - poor defending - and we should have been covering their best player!), we started making even more mistakes and became nervous and frustrated. And I agree, cConsidering we were ahead and a man up for most of the match, we should have done much better. Berardi was a bit inconsistent and I expected more from him considering his previous performances and experience, although in his defence he is still one of the younger players in the tournament, and he did well to convert the penalty; furthermore he didn't have much support from his team-mates, and he hasn't really played that often with this side. I am disappointed at Sturaro for his behaviour; considering his performances this season and his experience compared to his team-mates, he made a very poor decision, although I thought a red card was possibly a bit harsh, and I was a bit annoyed the ref didn't caution the Swedish player for kicking the ball in his face; I am probably biased here, but I thought it was deliberate, and that he wasn't merely trying to gain a throw-in, as he used excessive force. Having said that, it was certainly very foolish, immature, irresponsible, and unsportsmanlike for Sturaro to react in that manner, and that might have cost us the game, as the decision certainly excited the Swedish fans, who are known for their support and always providing a great atmostphere (I was fortunate enough to see Italy-Sweden live at Euro 2004, and the Swedish fans are certainly very fun to be around, loud, vibrant, and good humoured), and shifted the momentum further - we also lost one of our best players as a result. There was also no need for him to do that when we were a man up and he knew it would have cost him to react in that way, and I still believe that players should keep their hands down no matter what; after all, he only had the ball kicked at him, it wasn't a vicious two-footed challenge from behind or a high kick off the ball! Considering his experience, I thought Bardi also made a poor decision to rush out like that; I initially thought he would reach the ball first, but he must have realised he wasn't going to and by then I think he would have put the striker in a difficult position as it wasn't the easiest angle, although in his defence, we defender terribly and allowed the lobbed pass to be played to the on-rushing, unmarked striker. What do you think? Regardless, things are certainly uphill from here, and it won't be easy! Oh well, Fingers crossed... Messirulez (talk) 02:28, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, Yes I thought that Sturaro's actions were very wrong and most likely caused us to lose the match as it gave Sweden life as you said. Especially since Sturaro made a few apps this year for Juventus and played well, he is one of the best players on the u-21 team as you said which will be a big blow since he will be suspended for the match against Portugal on Sunday. I think when he was walking off the pitch he felt a little disappointed in himself, but too little too late. Yes and the Sweden fans were very present and loud, especially when they were behind Sweden's net in the first half to boo Berardi at the penalty spot, which added to his pressure, which made it such a good finish since he kept cool in front of all those opposing supporters. It definitely will not be easy from here, but who knows. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 11:39, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, hopefully they make it through to the semi-finals at least! Best, Messirulez (talk) 20:04, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez, now with the tie today Italy must win against England and hope Portugal beat Sweden. Very hard when your destiny is controlled by the results of other teams... Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 23:41, 21 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez, well Italy played very well against England, however still did not make it through. It goes to show that giving away that late goal for Sweden to win really came back to bite them in the a**. But what I do not get is how Italy did not make it through? Can you explain the process to me? I mean Italy and Sweden both had 4 points, Italy had 4 goals for while Sweden only 3 and both had 3 goals against and Italy's goal difference was +1 while Sweden's was 0... There must be a rule I do not know about because to me it seems like Italy's stats are slightly better? Thanks for your time because I am really confused. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 15:41, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Not very happy about this! I also think we could have gotten a lot more than 40 million Euros for him considering the year he had, both in Europe and in the Copa America, and considering that other players of lesser quality are often purchased for exhorbitant sums (David Luiz perhaps?)...oh well. Hopefully we can get someone else with the sum gained transfer fee, although it's not all that much money anymore (we basically bought Dybala for a similar amount) and I didn't want him to go as he is a permanent member of the starting line-up, and I'm concerned it might confuse things a bit, although it's a good thing we have been getting some young players. I didn't want Pogba to leave, but when we discussed the possibility, I thought that if he went at least we would have more than twice the amount we have to spend on rebuilding the team. It's quite a blow to have Pirlo and Tevez leave and Vidal get sold as well. I'm also annoyed we sold Berardi to Sassuolo instead of just renewing his loan; I know we have the option to buy him back, but if he has another good year, he will probably go for 20 million by then at least, like Immobile. Zaza is ok as a backup, but I don't think he's good enough if Juve want to do well in Europe; hopefully Mandzukic will do well, as he has in the past. Thoughts? Messirulez (talk) 20:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez, to my knowledge the Vidal deal has not gone through quite yet, although there is much speculation. I also heard that if the deal is seriously legit, Juve may be keen to buy Gotze in return to replace Vidal. And you are right, 40 million is not enough. I think we could have gotten another 5-10 million at least. Also selling Berardi has you have said was also a bad idea IMO. he will definitely be worth more in the near future just as Pogba's price had gotten, not as much as him though of course. Zaza is good too but obviously does not compare to Berardi. The legends that Juve are giving up this year are really annoying me as they are to you as well. Mandzukic is no where near as good as Tevez. Although Mandzukic is still a great player, it is still upsetting as I do not think they are as strong as lat year and will not win the scudetto by a landslide this year and must be careful and not be complacent in the following season. If Juve do sell Vidal and do not get Gotze, I think with Vidal and Pirlo gone, and with only Khaderia to replace them both, it will be tough in the midfield and will be lacking composure. Hope for the best I guess, but I really want Juve to be another powerhouse this season, especially in Europe at the UCL. It would be a real feat to make it far again. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I suppose it isn't official yet; La Gazzetta dello Sport always make things sound finalised before they actually are (one headline said that Dzeko and Jovetic were going to Inter, but the actual article stated that Inter are merely interested in acquiring them...) We will see what happens, I suppose, but if Vidal does go, I will be quite annoyed it was for so little; in the past, 40 million would have been fair I think, but after the season he had in Europe and in the Copa America, I wouldn't think that 50+ would be that outrageous to ask, especially if we want to use the money to replace him and buy another player. Bayern have the money as well, so I don't see why we couldn't get them to go higher if they really wanted him in the squad. Best, Messirulez (talk) 04:19, 18 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez Very true about La Gazzetta, Football Italia, Eurosport, etc. always have misleading headlines... And I also agree that since Vidal had a terrific season and a terrific Copa America run,that we definitely could be asking 50 million, especially if they want to buy Gotze in return. Maybe with the drunken crash he got into during the Copa America lowered his value a bit. You never know. Because there was speculation when Suarez bit Chiellini in the World Cup that Barca might not have signed him anymore, but the deal still went through in the end... Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 13:18, 18 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that is certainly possible, but I don't think that should have made a big difference to his market value in the end, as Suárez still went for a lot, and other players who have attracted controversy have also gone for large sums in the past, so if that were in fact the reason, it would be ridiculous, as I'm sure several big teams would have been interested in him. To be honest, as much as I admire Vidal's playing ability and fighting spirit, I think he should have been suspended for the remainder of the tournament at least, because what he did was extremely stupid, dangerous, and irresponsible, and he should pay for his actions, in my opinion at least, instead of going unpunished. That would have been an extremely controversial decision, however, as he was such an important player for the hosts, that I don't know if Chile would have been able to win it without him, and usually what happens off the pitch is often disregarded, unless it involves taking illegal substances.

Totally agree. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 12:45, 19 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Messirulez, Vidal officially out. Very worrisome, as I honestly do not believe Juve are as strong as last year... Plus they sold him too cheap like you said! Especially since Sterling sold for 49 million POUNDS! Vidal is probably in the top 5 current best midfielders and surely better than Sterling at the moment! I don't know what Juve are doing? Not pleased. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 16:06, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, at least hopefully they will be able to buy some good players to try and rebuild the team with the earnings from the sale and last year's winnings, bonuses, and ticket sales. Sterling is very young, and has talent (and he plays in the Premier League which is marketed as the best league in the world), so he naturally will go for a lot, but then again he hasn't had an amazing season yet that warrented so large a fee in my opinion, so I agree that he was definitely overpriced; the same goes for Bale, who had one good season in the Premier League. Vidal is in his prime right now, so he's not that young anymore, and sometimes that can affect the value of a player (also, he plays in Serie A, and our players seem to be going for less, generally...), but he has been consistently good, is well rounded, and scores goals as well as creating them and breaking down plays; furthermore he had an incredible year, and he will last a while longer, and he knows the bundesliga, so I'm sure Bayern would have given us 50 if we had asked, especially as many average players have been going for ridiculous fees. Whoever was in charge of the transfer made a big mistake, and I'm annoyed, because last year a very rich club like Chelsea, who don't need the money, made a ridiculous amount on David Luiz, who doesn't really inspire defensive confidence, and instead we undersell one of our best players to a big, rich club, when we could use the money. I suppose we can't complain as we have gotten some quality players for free or for very little these past few years (Vidal, Tevez, Barzagli, Pirlo, Evra, Pogba, Llorente...), although, then again, we have also overspent slightly on certain players (Diego, Isla, Matri, Vucinic, Quagliarella, Giovinco, Ogbonna, Asamoah...). In all honesty, even though we don't look as strong, the rest of the Serie A sides are still too weak to compete with Juve in my opinion, even though Inter have bought some interesting players, and Milan had one or two good purchases as well, so I'm not too worried about what happens in Serie A, especially as we've won it four times in a row now, and it has lacked quality and competition. I am concerned that I we won't be able to be competitive in Europe next year, which is what we need to aim for, but hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised like last year! Messirulez (talk) 19:48, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Messirulez Yes, it is annoying how "average" players have been going for a lot lately. And a rich club like Bayern as you have said could have spent a bit more. And I totally forgot about last years winnings from the CL haha, They need to spend it on some more quality players! Because the replacements we are getting for Tevez, Vidal, and Pirlo --> Manzukich, Zaza, Kehderia - are just not cutting it in my opinion to be compete and get far in Europe. Last year we were a little lucky with drawing our opponents and hopefully the calcio gods will be on our side again! For Serie A, i think Juve are good again, but I hope it is closer this year to get to the top because it is always nice to see a good challenge and competition. I am tired of people saying that Serie A is a garbage league compared to BBVA, Bundisliga, etc. just becuase there is "no competition" because Juve win by a landslide each year. Maybe you have not heard as much of that ridicule since you are in Italy with other Italians but here where it is multicultural and especially on social media, the Serie A takes some hard flack... People acting like Barca or Real won't win Liga like they do every year, not much different... Haha, I realize I am getting salty now but it is just annoying ;) Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 20:20, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have definitely heard the criticism towards Serie A, and although there is truth in it, I find it irritating as well, because Italy still produces talented local players, and has helped to develop young foreign stars as well. Furthermore, in the 90s, the Premier League was inferior in quality, tactics, and gameplay, yet it was still broadcasted all over the world and highly regarded, even though most of the foreign stars were older players from Serie A (e.g. Zola), or players that were unsuccessful in Italy (e.g. Bergkamp). Credit goes to the English for being so clever in marketing the league overseas, and also at ensuring the atmosphere be more family oriented and safe, which led to its huge surge in popularity and success in the 2000s. In Italy people are also very critical of the quality of the Italian league at the moment, because it lacks money, superstars, and also because of the corrpution, match-fixing, the poor state of the stadia, and the safety, hooliganism, violence, and racism issues. In my opinion, in terms of quality, the Serie A of the late 80s, 90s and early 2000s was the best league I've ever seen, however, and it probably didn't get enough recognition at the time because of limited broadcasting, and as football wasn't as popular as it is now outside of Europe and South America. To think that Platini, Van Basten, Maradona, and Baggio, among others, all played in Serie A during the late 80s, against defenders like Maldini, Bergomi, and Baresi. Regarding the lack of competition in the current Serie A, it is also true that in each of the top leagues, in the past five years there have been at most two, possibly three teams at times, that were contending for their respective league titles, and I think this demonstrates that there is a bigger problem in football today in terms of the disparity in quality between richer clubs/leagues and the weaker ones. I think that from a technical, physical, gameplaying, and tactical standpoint, the median quality of football actually has improved, and this can be seen with the weaker teams, but at the same time, I feel that currently the very top level of football isn't as good as it was between the late 80s and the early 2000s. Maybe I'm just nostalgic, but I found this particularly evident during the 2014 World Cup, when comparing the current national sides to those from the 1998 World Cup. Generally I feel that the defenders were also better back then, and that there was more competition for the title of best player, whereas now there seem to be fewer incoming superstars that compete with Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo (although at times they were awarded individual prizes unfairly). Messirulez (talk) 22:27, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Once again, very good points, and I totally agree. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:42, 29 July 2015 (UTC)