User talk:Vatiskaf

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Italian Army Ranks
You got it wrong. I'm a member of the Italian Army and what you insert is not a rank! The ranks are: Generale, Generale di corpo d'armata, Generale di divisione and Generale di brigata - everything else is only there to show if a General has some special duties (con incarichi speciali), BUT that is not a rank! It is used in the Italian Army for officers that hold a command position, which is higher than comparable Generals i.e. if there are two Brigadier Generals, the one with the red outlined star is the one in command BUT they have the same rank. So, please stop to insist to add wrong information to the articles. --noclador 21:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for comments. But I do not understand why Generale di corpo d'armata con incarichi speciali (Capo di S.M. Esercito) is written as a rank, not as special duties, in all sites, including an official site of the Ministry of Defence of Italy. If for you not difficultly, that explain to me it please. Still time, thanks--Vatiskaf 10:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I admit, that the Italian Army rank structure is very complicated and confusing, but I will try to explain:
 * first: non general officers: The ranks are Colonnello, Tenente Colonnello, Maggiore, Primo Capitano, Capitano, Tenente, Sottotenente. The yellow star symbolizes their rank. Now there are three variations of the yellow star: black star, red outlined star and white outlined star.
 * the white outlined yellow star is given as a honor rank - usually to officers, who are about to retire. These officers get this extra star on their last day in the Army - the reason is, that so they get higher pension payments. See here for an example (see "Colonnello a titolo onorifico" - only a Colonnello with honorific rank is shown, but all other ranks may get this white outlined star on their last days)
 * the black star is given to officers that command a unit that they are not allowed to command. an example: a company must be commanded by a Capitano, but if there is no Capitano around than a Tenente will command the company. The black star is added to the two stars of the Tenente to make everybody see that he commands a company, but only until a Capitano arrives. As soon as the Capitano is here he will loose the black star and return to have only two yellow stars. So, this is a temporary rank. Most often this black star will be used in war, when lots of officers die and it is difficult to get replacements to the front. This black star can be given to all officers that command units above their rank - i.e. a Tenente Colonnello can get the black star if he commands a regiment, or a Colonnello can get the black star (plus the silver symbol for generla) if he commands a Brigade. Remember: the black star is temporary and this will not change the pay a officer gets (Tenente with black star gets paid like a Tenente and not like a Capitano)
 * the red outlined yellow star now it gets really complicated. the meaning of this star changes with the number! if there is a officer (only Maggiore, Ten. Colonnello and Colonnello) with all his stars outlined in red, this means he commands a unit. see here so if there is a
 * one yellow star, than he is a Maggiore and does NOT command a battalion
 * one red outlined yellow star, than he is a Maggiore and DOES command a battalion
 * one yellow star and one red outlined yellow star, than he is a Maggiore, has the duties of a Tenente Colonnello, and DOES command a battalion
 * one yellow star and one black star, than he is a Maggiore, has temporarily the duties of a Tenente Colonnello but does NOT command a unit.
 * As you can see this is all extremly confusing. As it is different from the black star use of the Capitano and Tenente.
 * Further the same as above applies to Tenente Colonnello, but does NOT apply to Colonnello. Colonnello is insofar different as that he has already 3 star, he will not get a 4th star, but instead he will get the generals silver line and just one star in black or a silver star outlined in red.
 * Now to the Generals:
 * Black is for generals that do NOT command a unit, but have duties above their real rank.
 * Red is for generals that DO command a unit, but should not be allowed to do so, because of their current rank.
 * Also their are some exceptions, special rules for Generals that are assigned to the military staff of the president. But the most important thing to know is: there are only four general ranks: Generale, Generale di corpo d'armata, Generale di divisione and Generale di brigata. Everything else is temporary or special duty or special function or honorific or command symbols that do NOT change the rank. Also these colored stars are very, very seldom. I know that in the entire COMALP command there are 4 Generale di brigata, 1 Generale di divisione and Generale di corpo d'armata and about 20 Colonnelli and no one of them has a colored star.
 * As you can see the whole thing is extremly confusing and doesn't really make sense (no one in the Italian Army likes this "reform".) Also a little tip: if you look at the pdf with the ranks you will se that there are many ranks with something written in brackets - like (con incarichi speciali) - all these are not ranks and can be ignored when making a article about the ranks of the Italian Army. Only the ranks without brackets are REAL ranks and must be in the articles about the ranks.
 * I hope I could help :-) --noclador 12:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for absolutely detailed explanation. You may be will be surprised, but you managed to clear it to me and I have understood all. It is very good and interesting information for me. And you have very much helped me. Still time, thanks!!!--Vatiskaf 18:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No thanks needed, it was nice to explain it to you :-) --noclador 19:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No, thanks needed. It is very good and detailed explanation :-)--Vatiskaf 19:41, 3 October 2007 (UTC)