User talk:Vbb-sk-mk

Hi Vbb. I'm afraid I'm the author of those edits you happen to disagree with. I see you are a very new editor, and while I greatly appreciate your dedication and your use of sources, you take the edits of others clearly too personally. Comments like yours violate two fundamental principles of WP, that is WP:CIV and WP:NPA. You must understand this isn't a forum, and strict rules of civility must govern discussions; as for calling me a fanatic Greek nationalist, I'm afraid I have to inform you I'm Italian, and have not been teached many Greek child stories when I was little. Quite the contrary, I've been accused for my edits on this article of being anti-Greek; and by the way, I did put the references tag before, but someone removed it, as I put a tag signalling pov problems, that was also removed. You only have to look the history of the article. I've kept what was sourced, but as for the other edits, they did not respect WP:NPOV. As for today's Macedonian position, I couldn't care less; the only one I'm interested in is that of international scholarship. Find good, reliable sources, possibly in English or French, if you wan't to be considered. As for giving importance to the positions of the Macedonians, do it; I've read that Hristo Tatarchev also wrote memoirs, it could be a useful source. And it's only an example.--Aldux 20:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The point you made on the misbehaviour that is often displayed is too sadly true; but they know the rules, and willingly ignore them, while I thought that you as a newbie may not yet know of them. But remember that your paradigm of behaviour should be the best, not the worst editors. Generally behaviour in wikipedia is far better, but Macedonia-related articles often trasform themselves in battlefields :-( As for "veteran" members, some editors like Asteraki have edited wikipedia for years, but since it was to promote an agenda, this has only damaged the encyclopedia, and articles like this one. Believe it or not, one of the reasons I modified your edits was to make harder a complete revert of your work, a thing pov-pushing Greek editors (like Asteraki) would have readily done.
 * Passing to your other objections, in order: 1) you note I put back some of the unveryfied stuff you removed; but I have to remember you that also the claim you made, i.e., that greek armed groups DIDN'T fight the Turkish army, was unverified and is potentially explosive; for this it has to be clearly sourced and you should consider also adding quotes (translated) from the sources (if more than a double, consider putting them in the footnotes). To be clear; don't be afraid of using too many footnotes. As for the two skirmishes, mention them; this will remove possible suspects that you are selecting the info. for your aims, making stronger and not weaker the article. And if Karavengelis thought the IMRO was master of the terrain, mention it with a note. As important is to provide sources that explicitely speak of a systematic Greek-Ottoman collaboration; or only occasional.
 * As for reliable sources, this is an easy question: give a look at WP:RS, it's a policy guideline regarding reliable sources. Obviously, a pure NPOV doesn't exist; but it's much more difficult to call "partisan" a book by a foreign author than a Macedonian or Greek one.
 * A final note; try not using words like "gang" "nationalist" "renegades", in general in wikipedia we prefer a more NPOV wording, and almost never use "dictator" or "tyrant".--Aldux 13:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Details
No on is obliged to give details about themselve and you do not have to. But, it seems to me, that many contributors like to say something about themselves rather than remain completely anonymous. It is up to you.Politis 12:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Details
No on is obliged to give details about themselve and you do not have to. But, it seems to me, that many contributors like to say something about themselves rather than remain completely anonymous. It is up to you.Politis 12:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I know the feeling; good luck with your efforts. But you can do a quick signature at the end of your texts by typing in four times this sign: ~ Of course, you do not sign your name after your edits of the main text, however, you can give a flavour of your comments in the 'Edit summary' box. If you have problems understanding the English explanations, I suppose there must be similar explanations in the Macedonian language wikipedia in, []. Good luck. Politis 13:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Bulgarian site
I put a note into the discussion page of the toponym article at Gernam wikipedia. Maybe you could do the same at the Bulgarian Wikipedia. A n d r e a s   (T) 22:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Your departure
Vbb, these are the Balkans, what did you expect? Don't protest how inadeguate wikipedia, simply add other sources, and remember, if you feel that what is written is false, that non-partisan sources (english, french or german academic works) are particularly valued. In controversial articles like these even the finest contributions can be opposed, as emotions run high here. I hope you won't leave us, and instead remain and try to build a better wikipedia. Consider also speaking to other Macedonian editors, like User:FlavrSavr (even if some may be in vacation now).--Aldux 11:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

How
How did you find this picture, I do not mean the picture itself, but how can find material on the upload.wikimedia sight? Blagodaram. Politis 14:50, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. By the way, Prespa is probably one of the most stunning places on earth, a natural paradise and, for that matter, it may be divided between 3 countries, but it was heartland of Slav Macedonians (even the Greek side from which, sadly, most had to leave after WWII). I hope the borders open up soon and that someone writes the real history of the place. Politis 10:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Vergina Sun
Hi Vbb, I'm sorry for not awnsering on the talk page, but you must understand that my watchlist covers three continents, and so I don't always interact on talks as much as I should.

First, just a small carrection, the text says: "Another version of the Vergina Sun, with 12 rays, was found on the larnax of Olympias" not "A 12-rayed star found in Olympias"; the reference is to the wife of Philip and mother of Alexander, not to the town in the Peloponnese. That said it's unsourced, but it probably refers also to Vergina. For now I'll speak of it with User:ChrisO, the main author of the article (I advise you to do the same, Chris is an admin and a fantastic editor (and isn't Greek, so don't worry )).

Second, the problem is that your paragraph requires at least some statement so it's not WP:OR; sort of "the archeologist Pasko Kuzman [or somebody else] believes.....". Also you right "the Ancient Macedonian sun/star symbol"; but the article makes clear that there is no consensus it was a Macedonian symbol, it could have been just a decorative design. As I just said before, try speaking with Chris, the foremost expert on the subject; if he agrees with you, I won't move any other objections.--Aldux 17:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.

You have already violated the rule, and if you revert once more you will be reported (this is in good faith that you will stop). Todor→Bozhinov 16:58, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * To begin with, I'd suggest that you refrain from nationalist editing and throughly read WP:NPOV. I really believe I'm trying to be neutral in every situation here in Wikipedia (although like every person I have my personal views on many topics), so accusing me of constantly breaking the rules is a bit extreme, to say the least.
 * As for the image, it being an original flag from 1903 is enough as a rationale: as the license clearly states, it is public domain "because it was first published in 1922 or earlier". Sometimes there's no need to write a whole page of rationale when things are clear, and although a source would be nice indeed, it is not required for PD images.
 * Dunno about "your" flag, it looks kind of too modern to me, having this contemporary map of Macedonia, that sun as a symbol (the Vergina Sun was discovered in 1977) and the date (why would one inscribe it?), so I'd say it's a modern flag or a replica, not an original, but I'm assuming good faith and I trust you it's an original flag.
 * As for the VMRO names, I guess it would have to be the reverse: "prepared and carried out by the Secret Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Organization (Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committee prior to 1902)", so it looks like you're partially right on that. But the way you changed it is inappropriate.
 * So, what can I say, don't be so extreme in your wordings, always discuss before editing on controversial topics, try to be neutral and you won't have so many disagreements with Bulgarian, Greek or other interested Wikipedians. I really believe FunkyFly is seeking neutrality, just like me and most other serious Bulgarian Wikipedians, and his edits are often very well sourced. It is clearly documented that Georgievski today has Bulgarian citizenship and Gligorov used to declare as a Bulgarian during WWII, this is totally relevant and true, so I don't see why these facts wouldn't be mentioned in Wikipedia, for example. Todor→Bozhinov 18:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

New wave
Ако те толико нервира чланак о новом валу, препиши га. Овде ми пишемо енциклопедију, не вреди чекати да ће неко тамо други то да уради. --estavisti 15:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Да, видио сам да си ти доста изменио чланак око 30 секунди после што сам послао поруку. Надам се да ми нећеш замерити грешку. :-) И ја често губим вољу, ал' ми све јасније да је Википедија све више озбиљан извор информација за медије, и зато ми је то до неке мере као нека обавеза. Иначе, ако ниси знао, можеш наћи изузетно квалитетно скениране старе бројеве Џубокс-а и Ритма на http://www.popboks.com/ -у, кликом на дугмиће изнад наслова. Успут, ја сам мушкарац, претпостављам да си и ти? Ако ниси, опрости што ме је мрзело да пишем "-ио (-ла)" :-) --estavisti 23:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Ilinden uprising krushevo flag.gif)
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3RR
You are in danger of violating 3RR on Multigroup and Kiro Gligorov. Refrain from further reverts or you might be blocked.  /FunkyFly.talk_  01:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to Kiro Gligorov
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Tekleni
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Image copyright problem with Image:French_postmodernist_avantguarde.jpg
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