User talk:Venturian

File copyright problem with File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg (WinCE).jpg
Thank you for uploading File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg (WinCE).jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock  (T ALK )  07:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Please be advised that ALL the images I have uploaded are free of copyright.

Venturian 18:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC) Re: Your latest message. What more can I say? There is no copyright on ALL the files I have uploaded, including [[:File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg (WinCE).jpg]

When, where, and how can I retrieve any part of the article on Frederick Abinger (Tom) Warder?

Venturian 16:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, Venturian, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
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 * For File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg (WinCE).jpg you say that you created this image by yourself. You must give out a license such as CC-BY-SA-3.0, it seems that there is nothing here.  If you did not take the photo, but got the picture from somewhere else then there may not be any permission to have the picture here. put  tag on the pages or images you uploaded if you want to remove them. For File:TomWarder 19.jpg we would like to see a license and a description of what the photo is of, and when it was really taken. For File:Tom Warder Mandolin.jpg did you really take this photo in 1964?  and if so what license would you like to grant? File:Tom Warder (Medium) (Medium) (2) (Large) (Large) (Large).jpg is on commons with different procedures.  This one has the CC tag, so you cannot revoke the license unless you had no right to grant it in the first place. The article you are looking for is on your user page: User:Venturian, it is not yet in article space. 00:11, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

All the pictures I have uploaded were photographs either found in an album which - among the rest of the assets which had belonged to my deceased husband - now belong to me, or, in the case of the Pop Top Machine,taken in our garage in South Africa by my husband - Tom Warder - in the late sixties. All the rest were were taken well before 1975.

I only want to remove the pictures - AND the article - if the latter is never going to be searchable on Wikipedia. Please check the info on the page for EUGENE BOYKO which lends credence to some of what I have written. Venturian 20:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Please note: It is no easy task to upload all this to Wikipedia when you are 82 years old!!! Venturian 20:41, 21 March 2010 (UTC) I have added a comment about the Machine that kept us awake at night.

Now I have another question: This article now appears on the Internet but the images do not show up as such. They have the same format at they have in my article at present.

(Confidential: What a pity I can't add the fact that the lawyer who was entrusted with the money derived from the sale of the registered name of the bottle top, is believed to have absconded with it!) Venturian 00:54, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 22:29, 21 March 2010 (UTC) Venturian 22:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC) http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

Venturian 22:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC) As I have now uploaded a jpg instead of the "WinCe" image, have posted the information that we took the picture ourselves, in our garage, and that it's been released into Creative Commons, I hope that the problem has now been resolved. if I can manage to access the info I uploaded to explain why I labeled the picture as "The machine that kept the family awake at night", I hope to do so, as it fits in between the image and the last paragraph of the article. Venturian 18:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC) --

As there seem to be so many problems concerning the inclusion of the images of the actual news clipping, I have removed them and have left only the headings and the picture of the PopTop nmachine - which we took in our garage and I have ALREADYreleased into the Commons. Venturian 14:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Tom Warder Mandolin.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Tom Warder Mandolin.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 01:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Article
Hi Venturian

you have uploaded pictures, but did not say what copyright you want to grant. The photos your husband took should be fine to have on Wikipedia as long as you grant a free licence such as CC-BY-SA-3.0 that lets people copy and change the picture as long as they attribute it to the name you specify. I think that Fastily has not read the text you typed above. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:39, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I have added three of your pictures into User:Venturian so you can see how it is done. You can probably add in the others. The picture takedn of your husband would have its copyright owned by the photographer. Let me know if you need more help with that wikiformatting! In Australia if you own the photograph hardcopy you can also have copyright in it, but this may not apply where you are. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:44, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Re:the picture to which you are referring. You won't believe this! It was taken in Malta, and neither Tom Warder nor his brother - who both had pictures taken that day for their folks back home - were aware of the fact that there was a bomb under the studio. As is recorded in the book, "wITH NO REMORSE..." the place blew up not long after they left!

I am confident that there is no copyright problem with my use of any of the pictures I have uploaded, and I don't mind others copying them, but I am concerned about the fact that those others are able to change them. (Does that mean "you" or anybody else, anywhere?) I trust you to do what you think best/

By the way, can one add sound?

Venturian 18:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC) Venturian 19:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I have since added more details regarding minor changes in the descrption of two images, and also a fewe other remarks, but unfortunateltt "lost" the rest as I was trying to complete the edit summary. By now I am so discoutaged by my lack of success in uiploading the rest of the images - including those of Tom Warder (the main image at the top of the page) The Bronze Killer, yjer Vneturians

Having a lot of problems with images like the "Venturians", which, I am told are now connected with the Commons or somrthing- which I thought was a good thing. Then I received the instruction that I should change the name. Tried that with no success. Perhaps I'm just not familiar enough with the terminology, but it's discouraging to find that the first of the iomages which was visible, saved, and look great, has now disappeared.

I actually succeeded in uploading and saving three images, moved one as intructed, was told that one was now no longer free for me to use, saved the ones that were - and then went back to find that I was back to square one! Venturian 23:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC) The Venturians and the Newsweek and other headlines. I quit!! Venturian 02:20, 23 March 2010 (UTC) By the way,I live in Canada' Love G.B's page. Venturian 02:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:The Bronze Killer.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:The Bronze Killer.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 02:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I wrote the book, I designed the cover and I own the copyright. The info is verifiable. If you need proof please check out www.dromedarisbooks.com and go to the BRONZE KILLER page. Venturian 06:16, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:TomWarder 19.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:TomWarder 19.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:27, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

As I have explained before, the pjoto was taken in Malta in 1944. And I as I also said, (I know it sounds like a tall story - but it's true) there was a bomb under studio, but fortunately it did not go off until after Tom and Selby Warder and the photographer had left there. Venturian 06:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I own the copyright, and the photo is in Commons 24.207.29.22 (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:The Band of 27 Squadron SAAF, WW2.JPG
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:The Band of 27 Squadron SAAF, WW2.JPG, has been listed at Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

When I tried to re-load the image in order to release it under the Creative Commons license, I was informed that it had already been released. Why then should it still be threatened with deletion?

Venturian 18:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I own the copyright and want it to be saved in Commons.

It is even on YouTube, where it was posted by Vimeo. 24.207.29.22 (talk) 00:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I wrote a long description of how the machine was used in our garage where we took the snapshot ourselves.

File copyright problem with File:Sunday Express,May17,1964 (Large) (WinCE) (2).jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Sunday Express,May17,1964 (Large) (WinCE) (2).jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I believe that this newspaper no longer exists, but I shall no be disappointed if you decide not to use it.

Venturian 18:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Am I interpreting todays's info correctly? I have reloaded and stipulated repeatedy that this image has been released into under the Creative Commons license. Why is there still a problem? And what does "Vector" mean? I did look it up but it meade no sense to me.

Venturian 22:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Sunday Express,May17,1964 (Large) (WinCE).jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Sunday Express,May17,1964 (Large) (WinCE).jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Scraps of newspapers found after my husband's papers after his death in 1992. I have own them ever since.

Possibly unfree File:Tom Warder.jpg
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Tom Warder.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:30, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Taken by a friend in about 1963. It belongs to me and, as was the case with everything I have provided, I stupulated that was free from restricted use. Venturian 06:31, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

As I have stated in the summary, I have added two links which both refer to my reference and will hopefully show proof of the fact that every image I have added belongs to me.

Venturian 04:26, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyrights
For the pictures that you or your husband took, you clearly own the copyright on. What this means is that you can grant a licence, and we need you to do so, no just upload the pictures. We would like you to grant a CC-BY-SA-3.0 licence. This lets anyone copy and modify the picture as long as credit is given to you or your husband, or your choice of name. To grant this license please add this text to the images you have uploaded: You can replace Venturian by a name of your choice, this is the attribution. This will resolve lots of the problems mentioned above. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your message and all your help. I really thought that I had already granted the free licence at the time of uploading the pictures. In fact I'm sure I did, and I am willing to do so once more - but where do I start? You are an expert, but am a possibly the most clueless contributor with whom you have ever had to worl.

I have written 21 books - some as long a 675 pages - but this is the most difficult task I have ever tackled. This whole enterprise has been exhausting! First of all, if I decided to do this under a diffeerent name, how do I do that? And can you please tell me how to insert a link to Eugene Boyko's page where I have used his announcement about Tom's death?

Venturian 15:22, 23 March 2010 (UTC) How do I go about changing the name Venturian, and if I so so, how to I access my user account? I have permission to use the name Elaine Murray.
 * If this is a link on a web site, you put a [ then the url, then a space character, then the text you want visible, the an a ].  For example: report of a reference produces this: report of a reference Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 15:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The article you wrote at User:Venturian can have its name changed by clicking on the "move" tab. Put in the new name "Tom  Warder" or what ever is your choice for the new name.  Unclick the "Move associated talk page", as this is your own personal talk page, not the article talk page.  Then click the "move page" button again. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 16:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

How do I add the "Babel" info that I also speak Afrikaans? I have written books in that language - ssssome used in schools.


 * I hardly know, but the idea is that you go and edit someone else's user page, and see what they did and copy it. I could go and look it up for you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what else to do in order to assure you that there is no copyright problem with any of the pictures I have uploaded. Next to the one of the PopTop machine I had unwisely written that I retain the copyright, which gave the wrong impression and I have since deleted those words. I have tried to add a suffix to indicate that I RELEASE IT CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. and that I agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. To no avail. Venturian 15:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Please note that I have permenently removed the image of the PopTop machine because I am tired of the seemingly endless battle.
 * Your statemnt here has made it clear what copyright you are granting, so we can clean up some of the problems. The next problem is the newspaper image scans, Did you write the text in those articles, or some one else?  When does copyright expire in South Africa and go public domain (a possibility for old writings)?  The newspaper scans are actually so low res that you can't read them. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Can you now please put me out of my misery and tell me what has happened to the rest of the text on that page? Why has it been deleted? Venturian 17:21, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't give up the battle. You can look at the history tab to see what it was like in earlier versions. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The Bronze Killer cover which I have just uploaded is in the Public Domain, but I took it from the one included with the manuscript Venturian 22:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC) I have just checked Google images via THE VENTURIANS+ORAN The band of a SAAF 535 x 233 - 31k - jpg floatingpalacesshipsofhel.. All the images in my article are on Google and in the Public Domain.

Venturian


 * Just because the image is on Google does not make it public domain, so there needs to be more justification so that others can understand why it is public domain. Has the original photographer released it to public domain?  Is it so because of age? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your detailed and very helpful responses. If you are able to correct some of the images so that they can be visible, I don't need to change the name "Venturian" do I?

As far as the Bronze Killer book cover is concerned, that book was self-published, has been updated, and, to my amazemetn, has become a best-seller because Hemochromatosis has now been proved to be the most common genetic disorder. I own all rights to it and and can therefor release under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL.

Now concerning the newspaper cuttings. I don't mind if you delete the ones about the PopTops (just retaining the lines referring to publication references) but the headlines about the Gyro brake from the Kempton News do not pose any problem whatsoever. That newspaper has not existed for more than 20 years. And I also release my picture of it CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. I agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. I sincerely appreciate all you help. Venturian 16:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 16:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC) I have also just discovered that the Johannesburg Sunday Express also ceased publication nearly thirty years ago, so that heading is also no longer subject to copyright, and I release my picture of it for publication. The only reason I posted those refernces at all, was because of the Wikipedia stipulation that the content of my article must be verifiable.

Venturian 16:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello again, for File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg the picture is very tiny, but this is one that you said you took. Can you get a much bigger scan or reproduction of the image?.

Please rename them, Graeme. They show up as Wince for some reason when they are "re-sized" in an attempt to make them larger.
 * Some of your picture names are unusual (with thing like WinCE) attached) I can rename them for you if you like. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I seem to have too many pictures where the machine is supposed to go, but unforunately (and to my embarassment) I'm not clued up enough to check on which is which.

Venturian 22:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC) Venturian 22:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

As I have stated in the summary, I have added two links which both refer to my reference and will hopefully show proof of the fact that every image I have added belongs to me and all are released under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL

Venturian 04:26, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 04:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC) Venturian 22:47, 26 March 2010 (UTC) Please note the the label attached to one image - namely Sunday Express - should be Johannesburg Sunday Express. This will indicate that this is the now defunct newspaper and the refernce will not refer to the British paper of that name. Venturian 22:55, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Re: your message re the Incubator: *Hello again, for File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg the picture is very tiny, but this is one that you said you took. Can you get a much bigger scan or reproduction of the image?

I have today uploaded a better image of the incubator and I hope that I did the replacement correctly.

I do not know how to delelete the smller image and the description which already appears in that segment.

Venturian 21:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 21:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The recently uploaded image of the jpg image of the incubator is not the same as File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg which I uploade some time ago. (WinCE indicates that it was resized and is smaller) and I have tried to provide a slightly larger one as requested by Graeme, but I am still unable to delete the WinCE file that is already on my page.

Venturian 01:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Question One: Now that all my submitted images have been released into Wikipedia Commons, where do I go from here? How long does it normally take for an article to be accepted and pronounced suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia? The reason I ask is that the article,in it's present state, appears to be on Google etc. already, and it disturbs me that some of the "queries" and other exchanges are visible and can be read.

Question Two The lady who provided most of the background text for my website, is of the opinion that it would be a pity to leave the article in the air, as it were. She believes that what happened after that "disappoinment" was far from negative, and is prepared to add sort of postscript, herself. - Can she do that (using her own name) if I give her my password etc?

Last question: If so, does she just scroll down, provide a further sub-heading,and upload her text?

Venturian 00:28, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * answer to Q1: you asked this below already, and I will move the article to Tom Warder.


 * answer to Q2: you must not give her your password, but you can show her how to register and she can enter her additions under her own username. This is for attribution purposes, it would confuse you and her to bot use the same name.


 * Q3: She should add text any where where it logically belongs. She can edit your sentences or totally replace them by her own. The article history will remember all the changes. Remember that we are writing an encyclopedia entry that is supposed to be easy to understand.  Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Tom Malta.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Tom Malta.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Salavat (talk) 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand why it should be a problem. It dates back to WW2. Probably taken by his brother, who has also been deceased for nearly 20 years, it has been in my photo album for more than 50 years (and the very faint writing on it shows that it was given to me. I irrevocably agree to release this contribution under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. I don't think I can do any more than I have already done to provide reassurance. I am 82 years old and this is making me sick. In fact I am egretting that I ever embarked on this project!

Venturian 16:12, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Tom Warder (Large).jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Tom Warder (Large).jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Salavat (talk) 15:35, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

As I have stated repeatedly, I own the copyright to all these photos and have marked them as "released contributions under the  CC-BY-SA 3.0" This is an informal snapshot from our family album, and was probably taken by someone now long deceased.

Sorry I confused it, in my last response with the one taken in Malta.

Venturian 15:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC) Re: the new image of the PopTop machine,trying out a diffferent scanner, I think I have managed toprovide a better picture, as suggested by Graeme

Venturian 21:26, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I'll see if I can figure out how to do that. as explained earlier, my husband took it (he was the "someone else I specified when i uploaded the "poor image") I'll go back to my article and check the Johannesburg Sunday date to make sure when it was taken.
 * Now we need you to go and edit File:The PopTop Machine.jpg to say where the pciture came from (say you took the photo with the author) and the date should really be when the original photo was taken. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:08, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 23:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC) Okay. I see, by the caption that the Newsweek reference came well before the Johannesburg Sunday Express one - and now I recall that Tom and his brother had to go to the States at the request of Coke (NY) and Continental Can in Chicago, and it was when they returned to South Africa, glowing with success that the Johannesburg paper picked up the story. I also uploaded the story of how it kept us (and frequently our long-suffering neighbours) awake at night, but I don't see that paragraph on the article any more. Tom took the picture in our garage.

Venturian 23:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 00:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:TOM WARDER.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:TOM WARDER.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 02:59, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I am so confused now that I may just have uploaded information for the wrong image,and I don't know where to look to see it. How can I check. I was confident that I had provided info to the effect that ALL the images have been released your contributed under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL.

Where can I find a link to ascertain to which image you refer?

Venturian 04:37, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I finally found the image, but now can't find a link to where I shouls insert the descriptiton. It's an informal snapshot taken in about 1954 (before his diagnosis) and belongs with with the title to the article -  Frederick Abinger Tom) Warder - the world's best-known Hemochromatosis patient.

I originally had it right up at the top, before the title to the article, but moved it as instructed.

Venturian 05:32, 28 March 2010 (UTC) I noticed that the image of the PopTop machine has been deleted despite my explaining that we took it in our own garage - with our own camera - and repeated that I was releasing it under the correct license. I uploaded a better version yesterday, because I think is's important - expaining again that I am free to do this as the sole beneficiary of my deceased husband's assets.

Venturian 20:17, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 20:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC) Corrected the link to the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society

Image recently uploaded. I have just noticed that, since I am playng the piano in this particular picture of Tom Warder playing the mandolin,it must be the photo taken by my brother-in-law (now long deceased)at the same function. This will in no way detract from the copyright because he took it for me. Venturian 18:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Saw that the image of the PopTo machine had been deleted so I uploaded the jpg version. We I click on Edit, there is a descriptive paragraph relating to the image but I don't know how to retrieve that and add it to the image.

Venturian 05:26, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

File source and copyright licensing problem with File:Tom Warder Mandolin.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Tom Warder Mandolin.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, we also need to know the terms of the license that the copyright holder has published the file under, usually done by adding a licensing tag. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged files may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the file will be deleted 48 hours after 04:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ww2censor (talk) 04:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I thought I had corrected this earlier today. The picture was taken (at my request) by my brother-in-law, Selby Warder (now deceased). I own it, I scanned it ( which is why I said I that had "created" it) and as I indicated I have released this contribution

Help! I have inadvertently uploades the PopTop Machine where the Incubator should be. NOw do I undo that?

I hope that this explanation will be acceptable as it is the illustration for the segment TOM WARDER THE MUSICIAN

Venturian 05:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, the idea is to put this explanation on the text accompanying the picture rather than your talk page. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Graeme. I am very new at this, and find the "back and forth" clicking very confusing. I write for an online magazine on a regular basis, and I guess I have been trying to "arrange" the page in the same way as I am required to do for that. All I can say now is that there are times when I wish that I had never embarked on this project, and when I feel like just deleting the whole thing - but it has been another learning experience, and  too much time and effort have been invested by you and everyone  else who has helped me,for me to scrap it now.

Have just re-uploaded the image of Tom Warder aged 19, Malta 1944. I have owned it since I was given it in 1944, and, as described in my book, "With no remorse..." Tom and his brother, who went to a private studio, togther, to have their pictures were flabergasted with they learnt that, all the time they were there, a bomb was ticking away in the basement. Many, many buildings in Malta were destroyed during the siege of Malta, and the sabotage continued once the war spread to italy. I would be very sad if the image were permanently deleted. Venturian 15:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Venturian 16:12, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I am so pleased to see that the image of Tom Warder aged 19 is now visible, but I can't understand why it is not in the first segment. I really thought that I had uploaded under the title of the article but, in my ignorance I must have done something wrong. How can I get to see which images are waiting there?

Venturian 18:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Does this mean that the Marathon is finally coming to an end? I'm really sad about the Tom Warder in Malta picture.
Happy Easter everyone! How will I know when all this is done? Venturian 18:03, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

I reloaded Tom Warder.jpg again. in desperation, because every time I have done so previously, trying to stress that I agree that a "hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license," this seems to have been ignored. I will keep trying until I get it right - for a very special reason. On YouTube under "Hemochromatotis Awareness", in a segment attributed to the CBC program "Market Place" there is a tragic picture of this man taken 5 weeks before his death; a sharp contrast to the one I have uploaded and, to my mind, the most striking image of the toll taken by Hemochromatosis, which, is after all, part of the heading of my article.


 * Hi,, you have to go to the picture and add on your license as it does not say anything there at the moment.

File copyright problem with File:TOM WARDER.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:TOM WARDER.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. — ξ xplicit  01:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I have just tried to post this on my contributions page. File:The Band of 27 Squadron SAAF, WW2.JPG From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to:navigation, search

No file by this name exists, but you can upload it.

How do I contact the deleting administrator? And what is meant by "unfree"?

What more can I do to convince him that there is no problem with the picture of the band of 27 Squadron? Without that the description and the rest of the paragraph are useless. Everyone in the picture has long since passed away,and I did try to insert the word "unofficial" to convince all concerned that that was not the band of the South African Airforce, per se. The Venturians were simply a group of musicians (men of various ranks who got together to "jam" when things were bad.) Furthermore I have repeatedly explained why rthe words "THE VENTURIANS" appear on the photo. It's in my book which is set in Malta during WW2.

As to the image of Tom Warder.jpg. For heavens sake! He was my husband and I played in the band with him. What can be copyright about a man squatting down to chat with friends at a party? Without that snapshot (now many,many years old) my page would be a great disappointment to me. Furthermore, with SA in the turmoil it is in at the moment, I doubt if anyone would take time out to protest against the use of a snapshot - even if it were one of the president!

However I find that, where I posted the message, I find that no such page exists. - I give up!

Venturian 15:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

File:The PopTop Machine.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:The PopTop Machine.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 05:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Trying to solve your problems with images
Hi Venturian. For images without copyright complications, Commons is a better place then the English wikipedia. Then also other projects can use them, like for example the wikipedia in Afrikaans. You already uploaded two images on Commons, and you can use them on any wikipedia like the example to the right. I hope this helps (I am not really a regular on enwp). /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 16:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the good advice. All I need to do now is to find out how to access the images that are on Commons. I see that there is a link below this page relating to Terms of Use

Venturian 19:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I do not quite understand your question, what you mean by "accessing" images on Commons. The example in this paragraph shows that the computer code to include an image is just the same as if it were here on English wikipedia. But maybe you mean how to transfer the images to Commons? It is probably easiest to upload your image to commons from your computer. If there is trouble, just holler, and I will get the permissions stuff in order for you. Which is generally not so urgent - usually, you have a week to fix things. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 06:15, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed image of Newspaper heading in segment headed GYRO BRAKE

Venturian 22:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

File:Name.ext listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Name.ext, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Venturian 05:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

How do I repeat the procedure as I do not know what has happened to the other image

Venturian 05:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I have now uploaded a better version of the machine which is licensed under Creative Commons

Venturian 07:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, when I checked the link in discussion I was unable to find the image. Venturian 23:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

When I released the image into Commons I was instructed to change the heading which I did, so maybe what is being threatened with deletion was an older version.

Uploaded a picture formerly rejected. When I first released it, I was unfamiliar with releasing inpages under CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. I agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. I am hoping that the message on is still clear enough to offer proof of my ownership.

Dankie vir al die hulp tot dusver.

Venturian 05:03, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 23:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

File:Tom Warder (Large).jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Tom Warder (Large).jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted.  F ASTILYsock (T ALK ) 07:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

There is definitely a serious misunderstanding here! Although I am delighted beyond measure to see that the image "Tom Warder (Large).jpg" is finally on my page, no matter where, it was certainly not the one taken on Malta. It is the one (the deletion of which I have repeatedly contested) of Tom Warder chatting to guests at a party for which his band (including myself) happened to be playing. PLEASE DON'T DELELTE IT!! Its been relased into Commons, and is the best photo I have of him.

When I started writing the article, it was the very first image I uploaded, and I was instructed to move it as it could not appear before the actual text. Venturian 16:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Venturian, it can be deleted; it is now a duplicate of commons:File:Tom Warder (Medium) (Medium) (2) (Large) (Large) (Large).jpg. But you uploaded on top the photo with the banjo. It is probably best to use Commons for your uploads, and to let these ones be deleted. Alles van die beste! /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 17:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Pieter. At the outset, Tom playing that instrument was in the section headed THE MUSICIAN,and that image, too was refused.

The one that now appears in its place, was associated with the introduction of the "main character." However, since you assure me that the existing picture is "safe" I'm satisfied. Just one more thing. Since I am now over to you once more, are you able to tell me whether or not the larger picture of the Incubator is going to be okay? Graeme had asked me to try and rescan it and that was the best I could do.

Sorry I don't respond more promptly. I am extremely sick at the moment. (Not asking for sympathy; only offering an explanation for my tardiness. I plan to write about this condition,some time, since there's little if any worth about it on the Net, but my fingers won't always go where I want them to be.

Venturian 18:24, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * A response after two hours is fast! But I am sorry to hear that you are not well. Yes, your images on commons have been kept. In principle, you could upload a higher resolution on top if that one, but right now their are software problems with that. Which may take a few days to solve. I hope you will feel better soon, /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Dankie vir the aanmoediging. Eendracht maakt macht! (Is my spelling correct?) En aanhou wen!

Venturian 19:50, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Alles sal reg kom! /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 06:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Left a message re another image I have uploaded, but in the wrong place - Thinking I was reponding to you!

Venturian 05:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Now that all my submitted images have been released into Wikipedia Commons, where do I go from here? How long does it normally take for an article to be accepted and pronounced suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia?

Venturian 16:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, this is not how Wikipedia works. No one will accept your article proposal unless you ask them.  It is like writing a letter, but never posting it.  Anyway I will help clean up and move your article to a named one in article space as Tom Warder. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:33, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Graeme,I have posted another article and came to check on what you said above in order to ask for that "accepttance" but, I now recall that you did it for me, and so don't know how to proceed.

Venturian 19:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Primrose, South Africa
Hi, I noticed that you referred to Primrose, South Africa but there is no article on the topic. I remember this as the largest suburb in the southern hemisphere. So it must be famous! Are you able to write an article on the subject? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:49, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

As I remember it, it was just a small suburb of Germiston, but I'll see what I can do. Maybe it has grown since last I saw it, or perhaps there's a city by that name now. I was contacted on Skype by a priest who is very interested in what we have been doing, and is very knowledgeable, so I 'll start with him.

While I am on site this morning,I aim to add a link to the HSSA (http://www.haemochromatosisza.org/) as I have provided one for the Canadian CHS, and also an image for the book cover of "With no remorse..." (the book about Malta in which the Venturians are mentioned) but I don't want to provide you with more problems in doing so.

Venturian 15:27, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Tried to upload a better image of the book cover, "With no remorse..." but as usual I messed it up!!! Venturian 16:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * When you add a url link to another web site you can put it in single square brackets [ ] with description after the url. The double square brackets are to link things on Wikipedia. I looked at the map, and there is a place called Primrose Hill, South Africa there too, and you are correct the suburb does not look big at all. For references like books, we need to know title, author, date of publication, place of publication, and a publisher also ISBN if it has one.  Don't be scared of making more work.  Others are helping out too, like Phil Knight. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Once again I have to thank you for your reponse to my numerous question. Primrose Hill is a beautiful area, high up on a hill, and was, as I recall, much "posher" and closer to Johannesburg - whioh means it's certainly not where I would care to live in these days of the unspekable violence, anywhere near that city!

By an amazing coincidence I received an email today from the daughter of the man who was the drummer in our band, and what she told me makes me even more fanatical about promoting awareness of HH. Three of the musicians (not all related) have since died of Hemochromatosis, and the other two (of which I am one)are "heterozygotes" (carriers one gene).My daughter has the full-blown thing. Fortunately the intervention was timely in her case, but she offered proof that it was hereditary. There must be hundreds and thousands in Australia!

Venturian 01:23, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I was tested but I don't have that condition or genes. Is it worth you improving Hemochromatosis?  And do the Hemochromatosis societies count as notable?  Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

This is going to be a LENGHTY reponse as I can only provide it by copying and pasting from The Bronze Killer.

"It was gratifying to receive a request for information on iron overload and an application for membership from a scientist in England.However, as radio and television publicity had already been sparking enquiries from doctors and patients not resident in Canada, thus bringing the CHS its first foreign members, I was concerned about the possibility of overlapping and perhaps offending organizations which might already exist in other countries. It was this possibility which led to the establishment in 1983 of what, for want of a better title, I have called THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF HAEMOCHROMSTOSIS SOCIETIES.

"I have decided to start a card index, using different colours to denote the countries in which the new members are resident, and Tom maintains the data base set up by Shaun in such a way that we can co-ordinate family histories and screening. It is my hope and dream that, wherever there is not yet a Hemochromatosis Society, one will someday be established. In the fledgling stage new groups will be welcome to operate under the umbrella of the IAHS, to be monitored by the Canadian society until they become autonomous. At that stage their records will be transferred to become the nucleus of their incorporated organizations. A copy of the data accumulated during the “protectorate period” will be retained by the Canadian Society, with the object of making available to researchers a valuable resource; one which will, I hope, provide a wider view of the disorder, its treatment and related problems than is possible when research is limited to one area.*

"It is my dream that we will have a representative or “contact person” in every part of the world and their mandate will be to promote awareness and disseminate information, but not to obtrude in any way where other organized groups, if any, already exist. They will endeavour to make contact with and to co-operate with established organizations, as the objectives of all Hemochromatosis associations will surely be the same: to achieve timely diagnosis for those at risk and to assist those already afflicted.

"As I see it, because genetic disorders recognize no boundaries, one of the first projects to be undertaken by these representatives will be to assist us in the compilation of a directory of hemochromatosis societies (both affliated and non-affilated) as they become established throughout the world.

-*Editor’s note: Today a network exists around the world. Not all the societies and support groups which have sprung up in recent years are necessarily members of the IAHS, but their goals are the same. The “different coloured” cards have long since gone to the societies for whom they were kept in trust; the “data” which was so carefully stored to provide researchers with that “wider view of the problem” is now only a small part of the wider, ever-growing international picture. New information is shared at international conferences and on the Internet by experts from every country in which research is being conducted.

"It would seem that all that should be done is now being done—but, according to Marie, “not much has changed because what research has revealed for more than a century, is still not getting out to where it is most needed - to the family physician and his patient!”

That is how the Australian Society began, and the lady who heads it up has been awarded the Order of Australia. For example, Tom and I went to help the British set up their computer base and when their society was registered I was honoured be a signatory to the documents. Check out HH societies around the world on Google. Most are autonomous now, but doctors and heads of such groups get together for periodic BioIron conferences. The venue for this year's is to be Vancouver, but sadly I don't think I shall be well enough to be the "keynote" speaker.

Does this answer your question? By the way, Peter Kuiper is familiar with the Swedish researcher who taught me - so many years ago - how to recognize HH by looking at knuckles! PS. The "carrier" rate in Ireland is 1 in 3! I don't know what the figures are in Australia.

Venturian 23:23, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi this gives some background, but the definition of notable means that other people have written about it. If a person gets an order of Australia then we count that person as notable. Are there newspaper or magazine articles on the societies, not just the condition? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:03, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have no way of finding out, but I'll see what I can do. The Aussie one seems to have changed horses since it was first established. When I went to meet with the WHO in Israel in 1993, I stayed on in Jerusalem to attend the first BioIron Conference, and met some of the Australisn ladies who constituted a "group" instead of a society at that stage, but they were very enthusiastic and the society emerged from that. The men who were running the society in France (long and very precious story about how they first became interested but I won't bore you with that now) travelled with me and I was permitted to invite Janet Fernau of the society in Britain to be my guest as an "observer." - She later took over as the head of the IAHS, as, by the end of 1994 I had developed a serious heart problem from sheer stress and could only look after the ones in Canada and South Africa.

I started writing this at 5:30 am, so I can't phone the people at the CHS office, but later today I'll call them and ask them to do some checking. By the way, none of the "heads" of the other societies have written very much more tha just their newsletters, but I see on Amazon that one of them has - and, of course, it's a popular subject these days. I know because I write for an online magazine, and I always try to attach an image of a bookcover if I consider the material to be good  - but so often it is not! If you search for me on Google you will find some of those blogritics.org articles. Since 1993 I have been obsessed with the subject of "Iron on the brain" and now it's "headline news" everywhere.

How I wish this were email. I simply loathe having to write all this where it is so easily visible to the world at large. If that were not the case, I could also tell you the tragic story of what happened to my dear Tom before his death.

You say you were "tested." I hope you had the correct tests and that you were required to fast before having them.

Venturian 13:20, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Just found this reference: Not every representative had Hemochromatosis —although many of them did either sufferer from the disease or had an afflicted family member; some volunteered “just because they cared” and others were “talked into it”. During Tom’s airline days he and Marie had made friends in many places and they soon found that, among those friends, there were those who—having witnessed the havoc that Hemochromatosis had wrought in the Warder family—were more than willing to act as “contact people” or representatives in their own countries. One such person was Jean Guerin who, assisted by his wife Jacky, was active in “sounding the alarm” in France many years before the establishment of a society there. In due course he would become even more enthusiastic as a volunteer with the outstandingly successful Association Hémochromatose France (President: Pierre-Marie Morel) which the IAHS welcomed to its ranks in 1992, together with the Australian group founded by Margaret Rankin in Coopers Plains, Queensland (now known as the Haemochromatosis Society Australia Inc). Venturian 13:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I have checked on the list of societies etc. to provide you with the names of "notables, but because so many change or split into other groups it's difficult to find the names of executives. But I can supply you with some really "notable" people who,over the years and because of Tom, came to be diagnosed, eg.http://www.nancysteinbeck.com/links.html

I have a list including the Hemingways, Jacky Kennedy's father, "Black Jack Bouvier" etc.

Should I add that info, perhaps as a reference and then Wikipedia would automatially provide links as they are all there.? http://blogcritics.org/scitech/article/even-celebrities-are-not-immune-to/ Venturian 16:25, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I managed to insert the link and I think I can now consider the job done.

File:Bestrem cover.jpg
Hi Marie, for this image, do you own the copyright, or did you assign it to a publisher?

What license do you want to grant? A CC-BY-SA-3.0 license?

If this is the case please go and edit File:Bestrem cover.jpg and add text to indicate that. Copyright law means that permissions have to be assigned in writing not assumed or spoken. It is not too badly stuffed up yet. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I own the copyright and would grant a CC-BY-SA-3.0 license, but maybe this al all overkill. Too many images!

When I indicated the spot in which I wished to post it, I thought that the text that followed could replace a heading.

The ISBN is 0-921966-03-2

Venturian 01:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Please don't go to too much trouble - deciding whether or not this image should be included. It really isn't all that important!

Venturian 15:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC) I believe that this image is now also in Commons. I have been approached by someone who wishes to use this and that of The Bronze Killer in an article she is writing, and she would like to know how she should indicate that they have been released into Commons.

Venturian 16:06, 1 May 2010 (UTC) Attempted to insert this image into article without success.

Venturian 19:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello, You seem to keep uploading it over and over again. Instead you click on File:Bestrem cover.jpg, "choose edit this page" and put in or change the text you want.  There is a special template to say it is on commons, and if it is the same thing it can be deleted here if links are all fixed up. On Wikipedia commons it is called File:WNR cover.jpg but this is a much smaller version than the en.Wikipedia version. At the top of this section you can see the Wikipedia markup text to include this picture. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:43, 1 May 2010 (UTC)



I know that I kept uploading it (beeg batttle to get it right but, thanks to you, it is not only exactly where I wanted it, but the size is perfect too! I kept assuring you that I was done with all this, but I'm so glad that I gave it one more go!

01:03, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I did make it very small, but you can change that number before the px to change the size. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

It would be great if the image was just big enough to read the text on the cover, but wouldn'tthat spoil the layout of the page after you've beem to co much trouble?

Bu the way, I know one can't include music videos because of copyrights etc. but is it permitted to upload ones that are purely visual? I really like the size shown on right of this page.

Venturian 04:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 04:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC) I have just uploaded and saved a new article about the Monarch of Bermuda, to be linked to, but separated from,  the TOM WARDER story, but can't locate it in order to post the rest of it.

File source and copyright licensing problem with File:Venttura images.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Venttura images.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, we also need to know the terms of the license that the copyright holder has published the file under, usually done by adding a licensing tag. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log]. Unsourced and untagged files may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the file will be deleted 48 hours after 14:27, 8 May 2010 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Salavat (talk) 14:27, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

The new article is not copyrighted. I agree to release all my contributions under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL.

I would like to be able to use "Commons" pictures of the Monarch of Bermuda and the PV1 Ventura aircrafr in both articles, but don't know how to that.

Venturian 22:00, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Take a look at http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Ventura+PV1&go=Go which lists some images of the PV1. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:25, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

The Monarch of Bermuda
Hello, your new page is at From Floating Palace to Ship of Hell - A Ship Called The Monarch of Bermuda. Really it should be called The Monarch of Bermuda. In future to find where you put things you can look at Special:Contributions/Venturian to see everything you did. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Graeme. That was what I called it orginally, Then I stupidly committed a typo by using quotes at the behinning of the title, and not closing them, and then, trying to move it, I thought that I had to change the name. I would much rather have it as The Monarch of Bermuda but it can't be changed now, can it?

Venturian 05:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Or maybe the Monarch of Bermuda, I can move the article to this name, but I suspect that you can change it too, using the move button. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I would much rather you, did it Graeme. PLEASE! The Monarch of Bermuda - From Floating Palace to Ship of Hell. And I'd really appreciate it if you would tell me how to use images that are in the Commons. I read the instructions over and over again, but I just don't seem to get it right.

Oops! Have just noticed your advice re the images.

Venturian 13:07, 9 May 2010 (UTC) Venturian 13:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC) Venturian 13:12, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Still unable to upload image of book cover, "With no remorse..." and the "Monarch of Bermuda" Venturian 13:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, you tagged Monarch of Bermuda for deletion per db-g7 (sole author's request), so it's gone, but it can be restored if you meant to keep that one while removing the longer titles and userspace pages which redirected to it. I'll watch this page for your reply.  Thanks.  – Athaenara  ✉  01:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I want to retain the article TOM WARDER, but I was so sick of the criticism of the MONARCH OF BERMUDA article, that I decided to scrap it. It was the truth, but not worth the hassle!

Venturian 05:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * OK! – Athaenara ✉  05:32, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Marie, how come you requested the deletion of The Monarch of Bermuda? Just because it was tagged with suggestions on how to improve it. Are you annoyed when others do things to an article you wrote? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:37, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Not at all, Graeme. After being a writer/journalist since I was 11 years old (literally) I am inured to criticism, but not to publicly displayed criticism that is visible to the world at large. Furthermore, it is Hemochromatosis Awareness month in Canada, involving much "speech-making" etc. and I am tired already. I asked myself whether the Monarch story was really of any value to the world, and decided it was not. But you have no idea how much I apreciate your asking.

Venturian 14:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I may extract a few paragraphs of the Monarch and insert them into the story about Tom. Venturian 14:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm receiving numerous complaints - among them one from the editor of a national newspaper - to the effect that it is virtually impossible to "search" as they would previously have been able to do. Hemochromatosis is the MOST common genetic disease afflicting caucasians,, the Candian Government has declared May as National Hemochromatosis Awareness month, and there is no mention of it in the Wikipedia list of diseases. Try clicking on H! Venturian 23:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

New development: Difficulty in "searching" for Wikipedia articles.
I'm receiving numerous complaints - among them one from the editor of a national newspaper - to the effect that it is virtually impossible to "search" as they would previously have been able to do. Hemochromatosis is the MOST common genetic disease afflicting caucasians, the Candian Government has declared May as National Hemochromatosis Awareness month, and there is no mention of it in the Wikipedia list of diseases. Try clicking on H! Venturian 23:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 23:28, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Well you can edit List of diseases (H) and add it in along with a link. It is already in List of genetic disorders. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Graham. By the way, I wasn't trying to find fault. Sadly there are still doctors who don't know that it is genetic, and, because of this, first-degree family members are left unchecked. Going back to the days when the word was not even in a medical dictionary, I just want the Wikipedia info to be readily accessible. Venturian 21:31, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

FYI, I have just posted this in reponse to the remarks inserted by PAUL A in the TOM WARDER article - and this time assure you tha it is not because my feelinhs are hurt. I think he has just wrecked it All I can say is that you must be very ignorant if you don't yet know that Hemochromatosis is the most common genetic disease of all - in fact Australia's distinguised researcher, Laurie Powell, would be the first to confirm this. It affects people of certain descent more that others (eg. in Ireland 1 person in every 3 carries one of the genes which, if any of those "carriers" were to marry another, which is not unlikely, their offspring would at risk of developing the full-blown disease. This is how HHC is compounded among Caucasians. As for celebrities, did you check out the link to the Steinbecks? Now go to Ernest Hemingway right here on Wikipedia etc. etc., where the English spelling "Haemochromatosis" is used. (During his final years, Hemingway's behavior was similar to his father's before he committed suicide;[145]  his father may have had the genetic disease haemochromatosis, in which the inability to metabolize iron culminates in mental and physical deterioration.[146]  Medical records made available in 1991 confirm that Hemingway's haemochromatosis had been diagnosed in early 1961.[147])  His sister Ursula and his brother Leicester also committed suicide.[148]   Furthermore, Marie Warder's citation for the Canada Medal of Honour, mentions her book, the Bronze Killer, and lauds her for bringing this information (and proof  of it) to the attention of the world. You may even be at risk, yourself and not know it! (Would you like me to have that citation and the article in THe Reader's Digest scanned for you?)

As to the article reading like an obituary! - It is, Mate! What a tragedy that this extraordinary human being should have had to go from physisican to physician for 8 yeras without any of the "experts" being able to diagnose him! Now millions of families will live because of what happened to him! If you have the courage, go to the Bronze Killer page on and watch the video at the bottom of that page. There you will hear the famous geneticist -- Michael Hayden(discoverer of the gene for Huntington's) state categorically how common HHC is!

Why do you think that the World Health Organization invited Marie Warder to meet with them, thus including her in the first board to study the "Prevention and Control of Hemochromatosis"?

Mr. Paul A., you may have done a very tragic thing by inserting you caustic observations into the Tom Warder story without first checking out your own knowledge of the subject. Furthermore, do you think that all the other Wikipedia editors who went over and over the article many times, fell down on the job? I assure you that every statement made in the article was verified Venturian 06:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC) Venturian 06:25, 24 May 2010 (UTC) Venturian 06:49, 24 May 2010 (UTC) Venturian 06:55, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello Marie, You will have to edit User talk:Paul A to communicate with this user. Paul was only trying to draw attention to things that could be improved, this is called tagging. Don't think that the Tom Warder article is in a final state. There are many more improvements that could happen. Your attention was drawn to some style issues. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia style here. So please respond positively. The guideline on this is assume good faith. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC) I understand that, but, having already furnished Paul with much new info (for instance that concerning The Hemingways) and as there is a link to the Steinbecks (provided by Nancy Steinbeck, herself) I don't see any changes at all. I also followed the link to the Eugene Boyko article (which after having been on Wikipedia for ages, is now also considered questionable) despite the fact that the info appears to have been provided by the Canadian National Filmboard.

This article was written to honor Tom - not me - but, on going red-facedly, into some of what Murells has written about me, I found much that substantiates some of what Paul is now disputing, and can use some of it, but I don't know how to get back to him in order to communicate with him directly. i shall try the link you provided in your response. Venturian 16:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC) I hope that the references I have inserted will satisfy Paul and convince him that Tom was - and is - indeed the world's best-known HHC patient.

Venturian 05:49, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Tom Warder
I have nominated Tom Warder, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Tom Warder. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I still cannot understand why the article was deleted, and nor can the numerous people who owe their lives to him,. Venturian 19:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikianswers
Regarding this edit to Tom Warder: WikiAnswers is not considered to be a reliable source. Anyone can come and post any information they want there -- there is no telling whether the information is true or false. If you cannot find a better reference for the conjecture that Steve McQueen suffered from hemochromatosis, that fact should be removed from the article (should the article be permitted to remain after its AFD discussion). WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 22:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I have long known, and am supported by the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society that McQueen actually did die of Hemochromatosis, but as the CEO is busy doing TV and radio interviews as the annual Awareness month comes to a close, and only volunteers are in the office at the moment I cannot provide the link immediately. As to how I know that HH is the most common - well, I am the one who finally proved it and the Canadian Goverment - as well as most of the world's experts agree. I have met with the WHO and some of the world's experts on a regular basis, and all will tell you the same thing. A brochure put out by the Dept. of Health of the B.C. goverment actually adds the words "most common inherited disease of all."

Genetic studies done by the Cape Town GeneCare team have shown that approximately 17% of the Caucasian population of SA (i.e. up to 1 out of 6 people) are carriers of the HH gene mutation C282Y.Furthermore up to 1 out of 115 could have inherited it from both parents and as homozygotes for the mutation they are at serious risk of loading iron.

According to the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, US, Haemochromatosis is THE MOST COMMON Genetic Disease to affect the Caucasian population, yet it continues to be largely unrecognised, misdiagnosed and considered to be rare by many GPs.

WHO IS AT RISK? Most of the suffering associated with HH is PREVENTABLE if potential victims are detected at a young age or before organ damage occurs. Those at risk are persons of European descent, particularly the Irish, Scots, French and English; as well as those who have a family history of arthritis, diabetes, liver disease or heart failure. In particular ALL relatives of an HH sufferer should be tested. As carriers do not necessarily develop symptoms. HH can be passed on in a family unnoticed. However, the offspring of 2 carriers will have a 25% (1 in 4) chance of being homozygous. (Many rural South Africans may also be affected by Acquired Iron Overload through eating food cooked in, and drinking beer brewed in, iron (potjie) pots. This condition is not genetic (ie: not inherited).)

Venturian 22:45, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Point 1: Steve McQueen -- your personal knowledge, or that of the CHS, is not really the point. If the fact has not been disclosed in a reliable source, it is not verifiable.  Supposition about McQueen's conditions based on an arm's length (or camera's length) examination of his symptoms really isn't verifiable proof.  If the proof exists, then your office staff can provide it when they have the chance.  The fact has been tagged, and will remain tagged until it can be verified or until it is removed for having been tagged for too long.
 * Point 2: If you proved that HH is the most common inherited disease, you should have no trouble citing the peer-reviewed paper which you published establishing that fact. According to the CDC, the figure you quote (1 in 6 people) refers to a single symptom (elevated transferrin saturation (TS)).  Of that 16% (we'll take the high end of the CDC's estimate), only 35%-50% exhibit elevated TS persistently, and only a small percentage of those with persistently elevated TS also exhibit elevated serum ferritin (SF) levels -- it is only these latter individuals who are likely to suffer the ill effects of hemochromatosis.  Calling this "the most common inherited disease" appears to depend on one's definitions.  If you can provide a citation to a website or publication of the CDC that calls this "the most common inherited disease", please do so.

I would have thought that, by now, everyone would be aware of the fact that HHC is THE most common genetic disorder. I have numerous articles that deal with the prevalence of the disorder and shall endeavour to provide proof. As for Steve McQueen,I would be quite happy to delete his name. Venturian 17:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I can find citations for the following conditions being called "the most common genetic disorder":
 * Cystic fibrosis
 * Down syndrome
 * Color blindness
 * so clearly, everyone isn't aware of your facts. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

HHC is now known to be ten times more common than Cystic Fibrosis and most of the refernces on the Net are OLD, OLD,Bold textOLD! In this article (1998) experts were already using the word "probably." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9784832?ordinalpos=1&itool=PPMCLayout.PPMCAppController.PPMCArticlePage.PPMCPubmedRA&linkpos=1 Now we know, without a doubt, that is is the most common. www.toomuchiron.ca

Venturian 01:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC) Please note that in the first of these two articles, the authors still talke about "HLA" - which was a "primitive" test for famioy members. Now, that the gene has been mapped, the test for "At Risk" relatives has replaced the former, and since experts from all over the world meet regularly to compare notes at the BioIron conferences, we know that it is THE MOST COMMON INHERITED  disorder of all.

By the way elevated transferrin saturation (TS) is the litmus test for HHC.

Venturian 02:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Venturian 02:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC) More about Transferrin Saturation Plasma iron fluctuates and, by itself, is not a good index of iron loading; the ratio of plasma iron to the iron binding protein, transferrin, is known to be a better indicator of the disordered iron metabolism in the disease, but that is NOT what seems. That is NOT what is meant by TRANSFERRIN PERCENTAGE. And it is doubtful whether relatives of diagnosed individuals are always given the correct blood tests to determine whether or not they are at risk.

Patients have their serum iron stores checked, (but these fluctuate – depending on what they had for breakfast) and their transferrin is also checked, but it is only when all the tests are multiplied together to obtain the percentage of saturation that a conclusion can be reached.

Picture transferrin (the protein that carries iron around in the body) as a series of tiny railway trucks going round and round in the body, and someday one gets to be so full that it tips over, and wherever it deposits that load, that is the organ first affected. When ALL the little trucks are full, that means that the transferrin has reached SATURATION POINT. If the iron is not removed, the effects are LETHAL!

Internationally, family doctors in general, still apply the same test for iron overload as they do for iron deficiency; mistakenly expecting that hemoglobin levels would be elevated, whereas, in Hemochromatosis, they are normal. Most disheartening of all is the tragedy of interrupted or discontinued therapy. Once bloodletting has commenced, iron stores re-accumulate at a faster rate than before, and — in order to avoid tissue damage — the removal of excess iron by venesection (or blood-letting) must take place at a rate calculated to remove the iron more quickly that reloading can occur. If it is distressing that many people are not being bled on a regular basis, it is horrifying to learn of some of the consequences of patients being told that they were cured or in “remission”.

In hereditary Hemochromatosis (HH), treatment is ongoing for life, although there comes a time when perhaps three or four phlebotomies a year will suffice. One woman whom I studied was found to be in such poor health after a whole year without therapy that her doctor, trying to compensate for twelve months of neglect, bled her until she went into shock.

Venturian 05:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Adding images to articles
You seem to be having some trouble adding images to Marie Warder. You do realise, don't you, that if you just copy the example code directly, it will display the example image? To display the image you want to display, you have to replace "Example.jpg" in the code with the name of the actual image. (And, preferably, replace "Caption1" with an actual caption.) —Paul A (talk) 02:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC) Thank you, Paul. I will check after I have added some info which I consider relevant to the article about TOM WARDER. Hopefully it will save that article from deletion.

PS. I am really sad to see that the photo of him has been deleted from the Marie Warder article.

Venturian 16:05, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality
Please conform your edits to the guidelines of neutrality. Edits such as this one that you made to Tom Warder are not neutral and are to be avoided. It is precisely for this reason that you, as an acknowledged relative of Warder, should avoid further edits to this article. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I knew that you would say this, but I also knew that you would discredit the addition to the first paragraph - namely "whose expertise in the field of mechanical, electrical, and gyroscopic instrumentation was acknowledged internationally," so I went into the rest of it hoping to prevent deletion of that statement.

Venturian 17:47, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * When you claim that someone's expertise in a field is internationally acknowledged, you really have to provide a reference indicating that international acknowledgement. A list of training courses that he attended around the world does not count as "international acknowledgement of expertise"; it only shows that he studied a lot.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I have spent the last two hours pondering our recent exchanges, and I have to admit that I have been trying too hard to defend the retention of the article. I must, however, be permitted to explain why I have gone to such lengths to expound on the training and preparation that went into into Tom Warder's short-lived success. I find much of what has been written about Hemochromatosis - even here on Wikipedia - to be hopelessly inadequate, and only a month or two ago had to point out to a leading authority in our government, that not to stress the significance of iron overload was an oversight in his article about Listeriosis and Salmonella. (He agreed!) I have tried to hi-light the tragedy of untold suffering and unnecessarily short-lived success in the lives of people like Tom Warder; like the Steinbecks, the Hemingways and sooo many others like them.

Venturian 19:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If you think the coverage of hemochromatosis is inadequate, expand it. Edit that article.  But please, remember that references are always required.  In all of your edits, you do not seem to keep in mind that we are building an encyclopedia here, not a personal scrapbook.


 * I'd like to add that I'm sorry if you feel that our exchanges are somehow unfair. Please feel free to ask any of the other editors or administrator to review our interchange and see if there is anything they believe I have done wrong.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course I don't think that you are, or have been doing wrong, and I don't want another editor. I just feel that sometimes my postings are misinterpreted. For instance, I pointed out how long ago Marie Warder and the CHS had already been providing undisputed info about Hemochromatosis because they had access to "Exhibit A",and that 20 years had elapsed by the time the authors referred to in this discussion started writing. Thousands and thousands of case histories have been recorded by all the groups which became part of the IAHS during that time, and that I believe the there is room for both articles. I have just been diagnosed with a progressive and incurable disease (not necessarily fatal - ha,ha ha! - and it is of great interest to me to know when I how it was first recorded, and if there are any books and personal accounts I should be reading... I can't find that on Wikipedia, but if this article is retained, at least that won't be the case with Hemochromatosis.

Venturian 22:06, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Yours is a noble sentiment, but it is not the stated aim of Wikipedia. If a user with "disease x" comes to Wikipedia, what they should find are facts about disease x, and links to significant websites regarding that disease.  In the case of HHC, the links to the CHS, HSSA and IAHS would be appropriate at the hemochromatosis page.  Personal accounts are not an intended part of Wikipedia; such accounts can be useful to patients and should be provided by the relevant websites.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I "read you" Dan. Is that also why the picture I tried to upload last night was scrapped?

Venturian 16:25, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't actually know what picture you're talking about, but I do know that uploading images to Wikipedia is one of the most confusing aspects of the site for newcomers. The requirements to prove that you own the photo and are releasing it to the public domain are complicated.  I have never tried to upload an image but I know many of them get deleted as possible copyright infringements because of lack of proper documentation.  You should look at Help:Files for a good starting point for this process.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

The picture in question was one showing five members of Tom Warder's band (not by any means all related) playing for a wedding in the Germiston City Hall (SA), in 1955. In due course 3 died of Hemochromatosis, the other were carriers of the gene, and only one survives. I made it clear that copyright was unrestricted and that it was to be released into Commons, because I regard it as the definitive proof of how the menace of iron overload lay hidden, until Tom Warder's daughter was diagnosed and the family realized that much of what had hitherto been believed to be the case was hopelessly wrong. - That is when the campaign to make this known to the world, began.

Also, concerning the article itself. Of course I have a vested interest in it and would hate to have it deleted, but I need to have your opinion on the following: 1)Would it help to eliminate the "obituary" observation if I were to delete the EPILOGUE and, if so, could you do that for me? 2)The article is promininent on Google - when using every "search", from Hemochromatosis to Tom Warder, to The Bronze Killer, etc. In Canada alone, 3 million people are affected by Hemochromatosis and, during the 25 years since first "Iron...the other side of the Story!" and later "The Bronze Killer" were released, people who have become familiar with the name "Tom Warder" have obviously been interested in knowing more about him. That is why I wrote this.

Venturian 22:33, 7 June 2010 (UTC) When I logged in today I found a message from Paul which I can't understand, and I also can't find where to repond to him. It it is something about punctuation in connection with a book called "Iron...the other side of the Story!" I hope that you will get back to me on this,Paul, as I am really puzzled. Venturian 17:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If you'll check this link to your talk page's edit history, you'll see that Paul didn't leave you a message, but rather changed the spacing of a post you had made to make the page more readable. When you start a paragraph with one or more spaces, Wikipedia places that paragraph in a special box, which might look nice if the paragraph consists of short lines, but is rather unreadable for most paragraphs.   WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:20, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Dan. That makes sense. I thought that Paul was refering to all the dots in the title of the book, but that is precisely what is ptinted on its cover. I wonder if there is a university where one can study for a PhD in "wikipedia-ing". I have been at this for some weeks now and I am no more savy than I was when I began. As Omar Khayyam wrote, "I came out by the same door as in I went!" Venturian 19:07, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Incubator (WinCE).jpg
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If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log]. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 17:08, 8 September 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:08, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Sunday Express, May17,1964.jpg
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If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log]. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 17:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:TomWarder 19.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:TomWarder 19.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log]. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 01:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. dave pape (talk) 01:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems to me that copyright has expired according to South-African law, so I replaced the CC-BY license by PD-South-Africa. Best regards, /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 05:55, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

File:Tom home from Malta.jpg missing description details
Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as: is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors make better use of the image, and it will be more informative to readers.
 * File:Tom home from Malta.jpg

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If you have any questions, please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Theo's Little Bot (error?) 10:12, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tom Warder


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Tom Warder requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Ramaksoud2000 (Talk to me) 16:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

It was a great surprise to me to find myself on Wikipedia, and this triggered the compulsion to do the same for my husband --whom I considered to be far more worthy. I worked very hard on the original Wikipedia article about Frederick Abinger (better known as Tom) Warder -- the world's most famous Hemochromatosis patient. All HHC societies came about because of him, hundres of millions are alive because of him, and I only sent you that link to a blog written about him, in the hope that you would restore the Wikipedia article.

I am happy to waive all copyrights to the pictures used in that article, in fact I did so at the time I posted it.

Venturian 18:04, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I own the copyright to every picture. Venturian 18:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tom Warder


Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page that you created was tagged as a test page and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request test-notice --> Revolution1221 (talk · email · contributions) 01:22, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

1) I'm really getting discouraged! First my article about Tom Warder was deleted. Next I responded to queries about the copyright to all the pictures I had included, then someone offers to help me write an article about Tom Warder (which I have already done in the best-seller, The Bronze Killer (Amazon) and now there's another hold-up.

Someone tried to post a photo of Tom Warder on the page about Marie Warder, and we can't understand why the picture is being withheld, considering it is one of the many for which I have given Wikipedia the right to publish and add to Commons.

FINALLY: I am extremelysad about the deletion of the Tom Warder page - and would certainty contest it if that was possible -- but it has already disappeared into the twilight zone and I don't think that you are able to retrieve it!

Venturian 01:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC) On April 28 I did write, granting permission that a ALL the images - including the photo of the PopTop machine - could be sent to Commoms.

RE: THE TOM WARDER PAGE and you instruction, "If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request," I can't figure out how to do this, as I have to use a voice-recognition device to "write."

Here goes another attempt: Template:Db-csd-notice-custom FREDERICK ABINGER (TOM WARDER). May is International Hemochromatosis Awareness Month and millions around the world remember Tom Warder because they know that they are alive because of him! Even celebrities. (Nancy Steinbeck makes mention of this in her book, The Other Side of Eden." I could use some of the deleted info it is retrievable. Venturian 19:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Venturian,
 * I see you have found a way to get around the maze of wiki-rules. :-) Ottawahitech (talk) 20:01, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Primrose, South Africa
Hello Venturian,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Primrose, South Africa for deletion, because it doesn't seem to have any encyclopedic content.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Gbawden (talk) 12:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

You probably won't find it on a map as it is hardly more than a tiny village on the our skirts of the city of Germiston, near Johannesburg. Would you like me to find a you a map?

24.207.29.22 (talk) 03:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC) '''Found on Google Primrose Germiston, South Africa''' Primrose, Germiston, Gauteng, South Africa: Information, Business ... www.mbendi.com/a_sndmsg/place_view.asp?pid=1323‎ ... Add Event Venue listing for Primrose. loading map ... Facility Organisation/Company ... General Information about Primrose, Germiston, Gauteng, South Africa ... Primrose Map | South Africa Google Satellite Maps - Maplandia www.maplandia.com/south-africa/guateng/germiston/primrose/‎ Primrose google map. Satellite image of Primrose, South Africa and near destinations. Travel deals.

File source problem with File:TomWarder 19.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:TomWarder 19.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

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As Iam his widow, I own the copyright to all the pictures I have uploaded. Especially the one of Tom Warder 19jpg. He had just come home from active service in North Africa, The Middle East and Malta.

24.207.29.22 (talk) 03:55, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

24.207.29.22 (talk)

Speedy deletion nomination of Tom Warder


A tag has been placed on Tom Warder requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Fiddle  Faddle  22:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013
This is your only warning; if you create an inappropriate page again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Bbb23 (talk) 00:25, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

This is all very sad because the original article about Frederick Abinger (Tom ) Warder was excellent, and Peter Kuiper worked very hard to honor Tom Warder by perfecting it.

If my friends and I have upset anyone by blocking him or her from editing it, that was totally due to ignorance. When we log in to Wikipedia it is like coming into a dark house and not finding where to switch on the lights.By this I meant that newcomers don't always know where to post info.

Murella (talk) 04:10, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I have just received your email re Primrose and for the life of me I can't even recall how this started. There was a very good article about Frederick Abinger (Tom) Warder -- since deleted --- and in that article the writer mentioned that Tom Warder and his band had raised the money to build a church in Primose, near the city of Germiston. Somehow "Primrose" suddenly became an issue, and since I've been there and could find it on Google, I only thought I would be helpful and send you the info.

Unfortunately I could not "navigate" through all the pages and I probably wrote about this in the wrong place. I shan't be writing any more.

24.207.29.22 (talk) 13:07, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:The Machine that kept us awake as it pumped out poptops!jpg (WinCE).jpg


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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Iron – the monster with the grinning mask of virtue. A stark reminder of the prevalence of HHC.jpg


The file File:Iron – the monster with the grinning mask of virtue. A stark reminder of the prevalence of HHC.jpg has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "orphan, possibly was for deleted article Articles for deletion/Tom Warder, dubious licensing"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:00, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Bestrem cover.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Bestrem cover.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --Minorax &laquo;&brvbar;talk&brvbar;&raquo; 09:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)