User talk:Venu62/Archive 1

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History of India
Thanks for joining the History of India project! Please add the project talk page to your watchlist to keep in touch with what's happening on the project. Cheers! deeptrivia (talk) 03:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Tamil wikipedia
Hi Venu, Good to see your contributions to Cholas. You should also consider contributing to the Tamil Wikipedia. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 04:55, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Thanjavur_temple.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Thanjavur_temple.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or ask for help at Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. Thank you. -- Carnildo 06:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't reliably ascertain the copyright for that image. That is why I haven't used it anywhere. Please delete the image. Thanks

Venu62 09:11, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

YOu are doing a very nice work in the Chola and other section Keep it up Doctor Bruno 19:59, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Open tasks in History of India project
Just to update you on the current status of the project, here's a list of the current open tasks. Please contribute towards completing them, and feel free to add more to this list. deeptrivia (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Greetings, the holi-hangover continues! --Bhadani 07:43, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya map
Hi Parthi. Please refer to Dr. Jyotsna Kamats database on Chalukya rulers. Also " History of Karnataka" by Mr. Arthikaje will give you lots of details. It contains matter contributed by knowledgeable people. Chalukya territories included south Karnataka, Madhyapradesh upto the Narmada and Gujarat and Orissa, at their peak. Infact the Solanki's of Gujarat are decendents of the Badami Chalukyas, centuries later. The extent of the kingdom in the Kaveri region very likely swayed back and forth between the Chalukyas and Pallavas. Also, please correct the map for Chola Empire. The map shows the Cholas having captured virtually the whole of Karnataka. This is probably an exagerration. Please read my arguement with Mr Senthil Kumar on talk page for Chalukya. Its is the leangthy matter with some 12 points in it. Its is not fair to describe victories by Tamil Kings as glorious long lasting victories and those by Kannada Kings as mere "raids".

dinesh kannambadi

extent of chola government
Dear Venu, please refer to my chalukya talk page on vikramaditya-chola wars. Even in my latest edit where i claim the chola empire may have extended to Tungabhdra may also be over doing it. During the time from 1000-1118AD, The hoysalas ruled as subordinates of Kalyani chalukyas. My take is that the Cholas ruled mostly the bordering districts between Andhra and Karnataka like Tumkur, Kolar, Bellary. This is evidenced by the Kolaramma temple in Kolar, Nanjungudu temple near Mysore etc. The only temple north of here is the "choleshwara" temple in Bhatkal, Uttara Kannada district. I feel the cholas may have controlled coastal Karnataka for a few decades at most. The Cholas suffered two great losses at Talakad arounf 1120 to Hoysala Vishnuvardhana and 1118AD at Vengi to Vikramaditya VI. I hope you can see reason in this. dinesh


 * Dinesh, I did not make up any othe information in the Chola page. All informaiton came from the references cited here. I did not use my own theories or assumptions in the information. Wikipedia is not the place for it. You cannot write something based on what you think is right. You must have cited evidence from reputed publication. I will be introducing detailed citation and notes to the chola page during this weekend.


 * Parthi (Venu62) 22:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

question
The picture on the left site seems to be partitial wrong, according to the Kediri empire. They controlled at least eastern Jawa all the time this empire exist (till 1222). greetz --SoIssetEben! 19:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

According to the second picture - how do you define "subordinate" in case of the relationship to Srivijaya. Its important for an article in the German Wikipedia, thanks very much --SoIssetEben! 21:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks, but this doesn't describe why the editor of the picture thought that almost the whole territory of Srivijaya would be subordinated. Are you able to explain this? thank you again --SoIssetEben! 22:10, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The map is based on KAN Sastri's 'History of South India'. The king of Srivijaya Sangrama Vijayatunga Varman was defeated by Rajendra. Vijayatunga Varman was the king of both Kedah and Srivijaya. He subordinated to Rajendra. That's why the map shows the entire kingdom as subordinate to Chola. If you can point to me which areas came under Chola control, I will change the map
 * Parthi (Venu62) 23:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello Venu, I am not sure that you will find evidence of Chola control of the whole island of Sri Lanka. Local historians have always maintained that the Cholas obly controled Rajarata or Northern area.RaveenS 21:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Raveen, there is evidence that Rajendra did control the entire island of Lanka during his reign, albeit for a short duration. Sinhala king Mahinda V was taken prisoner and transported to the Chola country. He was held prisoner for over twelve years and died in captivity. Mahinda's son Kassapa started the resistance movement and eventually freed the Rohana region from the Chola occupation.


 * Parthi (Venu62) 22:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Quotation from the the Srivijaya article:
 * In 1025, Rajendra Chola, the Chola king of Coromandel, conquered Kedah from Srivijaya. The Cholas continued a series of raids and conquests throughout what is now Indonesia and Malaysia for the next 20 years. Although the Chola invasion was ultimately unsuccessful (...) ?--SoIssetEben! 00:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're right, but could you please document your assumption with an internet source? --SoIssetEben! 00:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * There are no reliable Internet sources for these things. You will find the Internet full of pages and articles pushing one POV or the other. That is why I intentionally stayed away from these and went straight to the reputed academic source for my articles. The references cited in my articles are widely awailable both new and used. Try ABEbooks.com
 * Parthi (Venu62) 01:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful work
You've done an amazing work with Category:Cholas. I think, with all those articles, we could even start a portal! -- Sundar \talk \contribs 06:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Sundar for your compliments. I have also been working on the Chalukya pages and intend contributing to the Pandya and Pallava bio pages. Then I have the unfinished Sangam Literature pages before I start on the Tamil authors Kalki Krishnamurthy and Devan. So much to do!


 * I also intend to make the Chola article a featured article. Can you please help me do that?


 * Thanks Parthi (Venu62) 06:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * With my available time, I can give you limited support. We should first start with a peer review. Then we need solid references. Once the writing is done, I can help you by copyediting. You should also try to get Tamil literature to featured status. Perhaps Arvind would help us. He helped bringing Tamil language and Tamil people to the mark. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 10:08, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes this is wonderful work on Cholas. With some necessary improvements, this article will soon become an FA. Seek the aid of FA masters like user:Saravask and user:Taxman. Rama&#39;s Arrow 07:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Chalukya Chola wars
Dear Mr Venu, dont try to just glorify Cholas by refering to history written by just one historian (Nilakhanta Sastry). There are many more historians who have written about these conflicts and i suggest you do more reading on this matter. Some historians especially of Tamil origin tend to be very Tamil centric and try to glorify every achievement of Tamils in history and downplay those by others. These edits will go on untill we find a balance somewhere. I also intend to start editing Chola pages to reflect correct history, not the one presented by Tamil Historians.

Dinesh

vandalism??
What makes you think that only my edits are vandalism?. www.ourKarnataka.com gets inputs from dozens of historians and reputed readers, not just one historian. You call my edits as Nationalism, but i get the same impression about your edits too.

Dinesh

Chalukya/Chola wars
Dear Mr Venu, All i am trying to impress you is that even world renowned historians are not free of biases and bigotry. Lets not forget Max Muller and his theory of "aryan invasion" and how it has hurt Tamil's more then anybody else. As a South India, Max Mullers contribution to history has changed our lives in more then one way. I am a proud Kannadiga and a proud South India. So we do share something. Its usefull to read web pages like www.karnataka.com because they do contain inputs from many people. You dont see phrases like "kicked out or drove out the chalukyas from a certain place". These are biased sentences. I am sure the Cholas have been driven out from their territories as many times as the Chalukyas have. I am sure Chola kings have entered into alliances with their feudatories to wage war against chalukyas just as the chalukyas have too. But you dont seem to mention this or may be Dr. Sastri does seem to mention this. There is no doubt in my mind the greatness of the Cholas, I just dont like weasel sentences that cover up Chola/Pallava defeats by giving excuses of age etc. I am not suggesting you are giving excuses either, just the material you have read. Please read web pages by Dr. Jyotsna Kamat who has won many awards for her work and you will get a better picture. Again, I congartulate you on

begining of end of chalukya/chola
Dear Mr Venu, your sentence

"This spelt the beginning of the end for both the Chalukyas and the Cholas. The unending wars had exhausted both the kingdoms and the feudatories such as the Hoysalas were preparing to defeat their masters" is absolutely right. I believe this is what happened. Thank you for your insight here. In a highly diverse (culturally) country like India, Its impossible for even the most successful empires to rule longer than 300 years, and that too only a portion of this period at the peak.

dinesh kannambadi

begining of end of chalukya/chola
Dear Mr Venu, your sentence,

"This spelt the beginning of the end for both the Chalukyas and the Cholas. The unending wars had exhausted both the kingdoms and the feudatories such as the Hoysalas were preparing to defeat their masters" is absolutely right. I believe this is what happened. Thank you for your insight here. In a highly diverse (culturally) country like India, Its impossible for even the most successful empires to rule longer than 300 years, and that too only a portion of this period at the peak.

dinesh kannambadi

Naming conventions (Indic)
Can you a make policy for transliterations for tamil on this? --Dangerous-Boy 00:24, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks
Hi - friend Sundar is not the only one who appreciates your wonderful work. Thank you sir, Rama&#39;s Arrow 05:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Btw - I think you may have shortened the contents box too much - I think the government section needs sub-sections, and different periods in Chola history should be subsections. Don't worry about FAC - any fresh criticism you encounter there can be easily fixed and won't hamper your efforts. No doubt you can rely on help from other editors. Rama&#39;s Arrow 05:13, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

History of Tamil Nadu
Nice to know that you're planning to work on those interesting articles. I would personally want to know more about the history of Tamil Nadu. Looking forward to help you out in whatever way I can. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 06:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, nice work. I'll do a round of copyediting on Chola dynasty today and I think you should move it to WP:FAC after that. We can take care of any objections by fixing issues as they're pointed out. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 05:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, now that Chola Dynasrt is in FAC, the peer review should be archived. Well, i see that in the talk page of the article, its saying that the peer review has been archived. However, the peer review is still active in Peer review. Please see. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've archived the peer review. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 06:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sundar - Parthi (Venu62) 09:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Thanjavur temple.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Thanjavur temple.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Jkelly 23:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Chola dynasty is now featured!
Your hardwork has paid off and Chola dynasty is now featured. Ignore Anwar's comments at the FAC as it's closed now. But take care of the copyright issue in the previous section. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 03:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure. History of Tamil Nadu, Tamil literature, Tamil script, ... and the queue is long. ;) -- Sundar \talk \contribs 03:55, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to Tamil History in Sangam
Your recent edit to Tamil History in Sangam was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // Tawkerbot2 03:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Tamil literature
Sir, you could use some ideas from Talk:Tamil literature. By the way, good work with History of Tamil Nadu as well. We should bring both these articles to FA status. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 13:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Contemporary Tamil Nadu politics
Sir, I've posted some potentially useful links to scholarly works here. Please have a look. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 11:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

some good India maps (?)
Hi Parthi / Venu62,

It's been useful corresponding with you, recently, about the Tamil Nadu etc. articles. I personally am very much in need of good maps, when I get into some of the detail shown in the articles, particularly in the history pieces. Anyone would be, I think: "'Delhi' keeps shifting locations!", "Where the heck is 'Vijayanagar'?", etc....

So I am going to suggest one, already at Wikimedia Commons and so no copyright or licensing problems:


 * Image:Madras_Prov_South_1909.jpg

-- and ask you both what you think of it and whether you know of any others?

This particular map is both a) antique (1909, very much "The Raj"), and b) British ("The Edinburgh Geographical Society"), but it nevertheless does a very good job -- for me, anyway -- of covering the generalities involved in getting a rough geographic feel for "South India". And the old Scots geographers were remarkably "exacting": you'll see they've even and impressively-I-believe shown "Hampi (Vijayanagar)", carefully locating and inscribing it up at the tip of their "Madras (Southern Section)", right on the Tungabhadra where it out to be... Here Chennai still is "Madras", on the other hand, and Pondicherry not only is prominently displayed but still is "(French)"...

It's a beautiful map, though, dated and politically-incorrect though it now may be. My own suggestion, then, would be that it be prominently featured on the various "south Indian" articles here, perhaps with a suitably-phrased caption warning users of the considerations above: i.e. a caption such as "South India of 'The Raj', Edinburgh Geographical Society 1909", or something like that?

Until we get better GIS for this purpose, though -- are you any good at drawing out such maps yourself, and / or do you know of anyone in the [Wikipedia:WikiProject History of India] who might be? -- perhaps I'll post this appeal there -- it seems to me that any sort of map, even qualified and oversize as this one is, would be better than showing none at all.

I'm adding georefs for GoogleEarth, too: that may help balance the "antique" problem of this and other printed maps.

--Kessler 16:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry to intrude. Nichalp draws good maps. There're more people doing that. See this discussion for example. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 07:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

OK many thanks. --Kessler 15:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

re: Ayyavazhi
Don't worry about those articles. Fanaticism shows itself up even to uninformed users. Let's concentrate on building better main articles. We'll deal with them appropriately if they try to introduce POV into main articles. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 04:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I realised the magnitude of the problem after seeing your reverts. I've warned him this time. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 05:31, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi
Hi! I'd like to award you a barnstar for your efforts at removing references to Ayyavazhi! Thanks Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, after reading DoctorBruno's corroborations at Talk:Thoothukudi I feel that it's OK to mention it in Tirunelveli and Thoothukudi. This along with mentions of "traditional" rural worship pactices might find a place in a separate article like religion in Tamil Nadu. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 06:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Hopefully, the issue gets resolved before it gets to baking soda stage. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 07:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

List of religions
Please stop removing Ayyavazhi from the List of religions page. The page is not about notability, but a list of religions, and denominations on Wikipedia. There are many less notable religions on that page. -- Jeff3000 01:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello, yes I have seen your Ayyavazhi removals from most pages, and while I don't know enough to say if is notable or not for those pages, the List of religions, is just that, a list, and does not present a point of view, and thus it doesn't fall under Wikipedia's Undue Weight policy. There are religions with much less adherents on that page; the page allows users to find them all. -- Jeff3000 02:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I second that. If it is a religion, it has to be mentioned in the list of religions as the page does not have any other criteria other than that.Doctor Bruno 12:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Duryodhanan and Ayyavazhi
While I appreciate your works, I feel that it was not proper to remove the reference of Duryodhanan in Ayyavazhi. If he is mentioned in Ayyavazhi, what is wrong in noting that in his pageDoctor Bruno 12:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't understand why people put Halumatha and ayyavazhi. Both are sects, of which I am unaware. But my ignorance should not prejudice me. As a Hindu, I believe that Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu and didn't learn about the Gaudiya Vaishnava view until later in life. For example, the Gaudiya Vaishnivite view of Krishna as supreme and Vishnu is inferior is unheard of in south India. Should my ignorance make me delete every reference to Gaudiya Vaishnavite view? No. I don't care one way or another, so long as it is not made up. Just to let you know, I am not a follower of ayyavazhi.

Raj2004 23:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't insist that every minor sect puts their own view. The Kuruba view of Halumatha is not known by Brahmins, for example.

Does that justify I delete it?

Raj2004 23:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi and Duryodhana
While there is nothing wrong in mentioning Duryodhana in the Ayyavazhi articles, it is not appropriate to insert it in the main Duryodhana article. Ayyavazhi is not notable enough to be mentioned there and in a number of places. It is the same as including Ayyavazhi in the Menstrual cycle article (see ). There is nothing wrong creating dozens of Ayyavazhi articles, but it is wrong creating links from every possible location on WP. - Parthi 20:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi
When you have * 13.1 Buddhism on menstruation * 13.2 Christianity on menstruation * 13.3 Hinduism on menstruation * 13.4 Islam on menstruation * 13.5 Judaism on menstruation * 13.6 Sikhism on menstruation * 13.7 Tribal societies and menstruation * 13.8 Mysticism

What is wrong in Having Ayyavazhi on Menstraution

Please note that I am not a follower of that religion, but I feel that we don't have any right to deny an existence of a religion. When you permit Tribal societies and Mysticism, I feel that Ayyavazhi has a place.

This is my opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong. I want a discussion and not argument Doctor Bruno 03:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Similarly, I feel that it should be included in the list of religions also Doctor Bruno 03:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Duryodhana
When you are mentioning "In Kumaon region of Uttranchal" in the page of Duryodhana and not limiting to mention Duryodhana in Kumaon (for example), I think the same logic should be followed for Ayyavazhi also

Again this is MY opinion and I would like to see a consensus Doctor Bruno 03:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC) Please correct me if I am wrong. I want a discussion and not an argument

ancient indian kingdoms and the adding of the hindu myth cat
The hindu mythology cat you added to all those indian kingdoms are unneeded. They are already under Category:Ancient Hindu kingdoms which a is a subcat of Hindu mythology. Could you please help in removing the cat from the articles you added to? --D-Boy 08:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think both stubs are since they relate to both subject. Also, you may be interested in improving Hinduism in Australia and maybe create Indian Australian.  SeeCategory:Overseas Indian groups

I am removing Kamarupa (History) from the Hindu Mythology category. The article Pragjyotisha Kingdom is the mythological article. Chaipau 13:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Appadurai Muttulingam up for deleion
For your information, the article Appadurai Muttulingam has been nominated for deletion; see Articles for deletion/Appadurai Muttulingam. In view of your interest in Tamil literature, you may have an opinion on this matter. --Lambiam Talk 08:45, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

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