User talk:Vera, Chuck & Dave/Archive 2

Admin
Have a look at my user page, under “You've been nominated”. I hope I’m not “stuffing ballot boxes” by doing this, but everybody can have their say. (I only sent this message to two users, BTW.) andreasegde 22:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I thank you. andreasegde 22:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't forget to vote. It's open for all registered users. Ramsquire 23:59, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 5, September 2006

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Football
Bloody hell, Everton are giving it some stick. (I won´t talk about Leeds, ´cos it´s too embarrasing....) Have a look at this: --andreasegde 14:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It´s bloody unbelievable, but wait until the rain starts to fall and the snow sets in. That´ll sort out ´em out. (Don´t even think about Leeds - they´re looking down at the cellar position of the 2nd division.) Bugger. andreasegde 22:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I´m beginning to feel like an Oxford United fan...Bugger. My second team was always Liverpool, but I have always disliked Chelsea and Arsenal. (Too smarty-pants...) Hope the ´Pool do better. --andreasegde 21:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Look at this and weep (for a Leeds fan…)

HONOURS FOR LIVERPOOL:

Division One Champions (18) 1900-01, 1905-06, 1921-22, 1922-23, 1946-47, 1963-64, 1965-66, 1972-73, 1975-76, 1976-77, 1978-79, 1979-80, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1985-86, 1987-88, 1989-90

Division Two Champions (4) 1893-94, 1895-96, 1904-05, 1961-62

FA Cup Winners (7) 1965, 1974, 1986, 1989, 1992, 2001, 2006

League Cup Winners (7) 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1995, 2001, 2003

League Super Cup Winners (1) 1986

European Cup Winners (5) 1976-77, 1977-78, 1980-81, 1983-84, 2004-05

UEFA Cup Winners (3) 1972-73, 1975-76, 2000-01

European Super Cup Winners (2) 1977, 2001

Not bad, eh? “You’ll never walk alone” (without a trophy, that is…) --andreasegde 15:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

3-0 today. Mine´s a pint. --andreasegde 18:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The Beatles Newsletter 006
Hi. Er.... Are you able to pop over and add some "information" into a newsletter that only requires some news to make it viable? If you don't fancy editing it, then just a few suggestions on the talk page will suffice. I've not been around the project much so don't know too much about current events. Ta.LessHeard vanU 17:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 6, October 2006

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Liverpool
Sorry. I was't living in the UK back then, so I only got a smattering of news about it. Some journalists certainly know how to plumb the depths of depravity. I hereby acknowledge that I have shot myself in the foot. --andreasegde 10:26, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Macca article

 * Uhh... I can't bathe in the glory of Wikipedian respect just yet. I've rolled my sleeves up have got a jar of elbow grease out so I can work on the McCartney article. It's gonna get a GA class or my name's not Rumpelstiltskin. Do you want to join in? I'm up to his role in The Fabs so far. If you have a book other than those cited it would be great, la. Come on in - the water's lovely.


 * Did you know?... Macca used to kill frogs with a big stick and call them "Johnny Rebs". He had a collection of 10 or 11 down by the local beck. "Many Years From Now" book...


 * I'm only down to the end of The Beatles, but I don't have much on Wings, and later. You could take an piece from later, and work on that, if you want. (I'll know you're working on it because of the history section, so I'll keep me greasy fingers off it.) --andreasegde 15:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You think you've got problems with editors? Look at my page....--andreasegde 00:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I liked Wings a lot, but I was alway more interested in The Fabs. I am one of those "It´s a pity they stopped writing together" sad cases. Great work though, Vera, Chuck, and Dave. (BTW, I used to live in Abbey Wood, Clapham and Streatham (not at the same time, of course :) --andreasegde 18:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Macca article is up for GA review, (we'll see what happens) but the Wings article only has one in-line citation, which I put in. When you've got the books we can both attack that one, because it's only a B article. A few citations and it could easily be an A, or GA. Macca's article could do with a more meat on its bones, and then it might (just might) go for an FA. (Hope is the last thing to die, as they say.) --andreasegde 09:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Your edit about him being left-handed was brilliant. Nice one. --andreasegde 16:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I moved it down a bit. Where was the quote from? If you have any problems with in-line citations (which did me head in at first, until I very slowly worked it out) please tell me, and I will show you how effin' easy it is. (Don't look at the Wiki pages, they almost made me go blind...) Cheers... --andreasegde 17:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

References and citations from a book
Important: Read this on the editing page, or it won't make sense. Click on the "edit" icon. >->->->->->->

How to put a reference in an article:

Use a book, and start with this:

The name "Spitz" is the surname of the author.

Add this in the middle:

Spitz, Bob. The Beatles: The Biography, Little, Brown, and Company, New York, 2006. ISBN 1845131606

You will find this information in the book you have.

The whole thing looks like this:

When you want to repeat a reference from the same book in the same article, use this:

That’s all.

Note: Copy the information over to notepad, or Winword (and save it) and insert the information there, and then copy it back to the page. It will save time…

Any problems at all - don't hesitate to ask. You may find that you 'fcuk' it up a few times - as I very often did - because there is a space between one thing or another, but don't worry. Cheers, la.

P.S. Did you read that Kingboyk called us "the collaboration of the week"? Brilliant. --andreasegde 18:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Macca
Effin' Nora, Kingboyk's pushing it for a FA. It'd be marvellous to get one. "Hands off cocks - on socks" as they say...


 * Uhh, that's a good site. The guitars should go into his "early years", and In The Beatles section. Do you want to do it? (I'll put two lines in, and put the web site into Notes and references, then you only have to copy the shorter bit if you want to repeat it.) --andreasegde 19:24, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Done it. The only problem I have is this: Was the Framus his first, or the Zenith? Did he see a poster, or a picture in the paper? The site's not clear about it. --andreasegde 19:33, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Bugger.... It was a "Framus Zenith model 17" guitar. (I'll sleep easy tonight). I'll put some more in about his guitars. (I've already put in the in-line citations about the site and I'll move your external link, as it's in). --andreasegde 19:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Nice one. --andreasegde 21:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ooh, you spotted that did ya? Good work! I have no idea what his first guitar was and yes there's still work to be done on structure. --kingboyk 21:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey it's a long way off FA yet, but why not strive for it? It's not as if there's any shortage of material and it's not as if McCartney has lead a dull life! :) So, get stuck in chaps, it's great how much work has gone into this of late - sometimes 2 or 3 folks working on it at the same time! --kingboyk 21:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your question.

No, I'm effin' well cheesed off. The main aim (as you know) was to get the article a better rating than a B (B article). A GA (Good article) would have been great, and then it could have been improved and polished, with a view to getting an FA (Featured article). Unfortunately, the ‘big guns’ came in and wanted to push it for an FA, which it definitely wasn't ready for.

The problem stems from a point that I made which was this: Should the article be chronological? I was told that it should be "thematic", which I disagreed with. (Moving the meeting of Macca and Linda after the Liverpool Institute 'LIPA' section, is thematic, but not chronological. It's not even logical, to silly old me :)

I was even told that “it was a right old mess before”, and I “should be grateful” for someone helping me. As no comments were posted stating that before, it pissed me well and truly off.

It has just failed its GA (Good article) review, because "there has been some ‘heavy editing’ recently, and there are too many 'expand', and 'This is a stub' comments”. No surprise there. Take a look at it now... It looks like a 'Start' article.

Anybody that knows me knows that I don't like arguments, so I will take a break, and ponder awhile.... --andreasegde 14:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Now it is my turn to not understand; Why have you left the Project? You and Andreasedge worked very hard on this article, and A got a bit upset when it was significantly altered - but he is back working on it now. Unfortunately Kingboyk decided to leave the Project - possibly because of my meddling (a bit like this) - as a consequence also. I hope he returns, and I hope you do too. Different people react differently to negative events, but in the main everyone gets on with life. I really hope I see you back amongst the articles very soon.LessHeard vanU 18:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. Also, thanks for your contributions to the Project. Catch you around.LessHeard vanU 19:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I apologise to you, Vera, Chuck, and Dave, for me not standing my ground. You're totally right, because I always do in life outside Wikipedia. (I'm known for it...) I just didn't want to get into a "mothers' meeting" (as you once said) of rights and wrongs. They go on forever, and nothing is ever really decided.


 * I shilly-shallied, and dilly-dallied. We all fall out occasionally, but I didn't realise that by backing down it would lead to all this kerfuffle. P.S. I had a great laugh working with you. We were on a roll... --andreasegde 10:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

An open letter
I have some ideas that you should think about (and I will not back down about this... :)


 * Vera, Chuck, and Dave must be back on board, because he's great to work with and personally I need his help, and advice.
 * Kingboyk must also come back because of the above.
 * Prove to everybody on Wikipedia that it is possible for three (or more) editors to work together on one article. Now - that's a challenge. Are you up for it?
 * Finish the bloody article, and then we can decide what to do. "Don't leave a job half-finished."

We all have some stylistic questions (who doesn't?) but those can be resolved on the talk page - and I really mean resolved...

I want to get back to work. --andreasegde 15:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

To me mate, who's as mad as me, la.
So lovely to hear from you. Please come back, and let's finish it. (I was working on it when I got your message - I couldn't resist it..) If you don't come back and help me, I'm gonna knock yer lights out - lol... :) (I have been learning from you, BTW.)

As for the future, you will have to lend me your B.A., and light my fire, instead of me putting it out. I need your help. Let's be the first to get a new GA, FA, or whatever, for The Beatles.

(I have definitely been learning - so I can say) Fuck it, let's finish it. --andreasegde 17:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Blues and two's
What's "blues and two's"? My dad was a miner, so I think it's shift work. (Shit - of course it is...) but I have a question: How many days do you do "mornings - afternoons - or nights"? Is there an aricle called "Shift work" on Wkipedia? The steel workers over here work three days on mornings, three days on afternoons, and then three days on nights, and then they're knackered. (They have two days off.) --andreasegde 18:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Message
Right - I'm gonna take a few days off, and then I'm gonna get back on my Wiki-bike. I fully expect to see officer "Alfa Four One" on duty.

P.S. A mate of mine lived in Plumstead! The world is a small place. Steve Davis (snooker player) came from there....)

I'll see you soon... --andreasegde 18:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice
Great to see you back. Congrats on the 'pool win today, BTW. (Leeds won as well, but I'm still crossing my fingers...) --andreasegde 16:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

A man says to a chinese waiter, "This chicken is rubbery". The waiter says, "Fank you very much"... --andreasegde 11:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Next time...
...use the hatchet you are issued with, not your shoulder! I hope you are fit again, soon.LessHeard vanU 22:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hope you get better soon. I remember when I had flu once, and I was so off my head I couldn't stop laughing. I quite enjoyed it... --andreasegde 22:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Got to have the page numbers from the book. I put loads in without page numbers, so I'll go back and repair them. (New, but good directive from head office) After we've finished, the references section will need a page of its own!... Hope you're feeling better, la. --andreasegde 15:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The man is back! (with 'Poppy')
Yup, you're exactly right, but I did it because I looked at your message, and then looked at the "One of many love songs for Linda" and saw a "citation needed". I did the others you mentioned, but if I messed up, you can hit me with an old copy of The Yorkshire Evening Post. I'm absolutely at sea when dealing with Wings, so I'm really glad you're on it. No more shall my greasy fingers alight on the feathered ones again... :) --andreasegde 21:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * After second thoughts, I think that maybe I did do it, but I'm not sure. (Which one of us is on the drugs again?... :) --andreasegde 21:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * She's 9??? She writes better than a thousand editors I've read on Wiki. Poppy, you need to find a user name, start a Wiki account, and then you can talk to your heroic dad on these pages... (Only joking) Well done, Poppy. --andreasegde 21:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In-line citations
Look at this thing in brackets on your own edit page, over here ->->->->->->->->

That's all you have to do. Put in the page number twice, and drop the whole thing in the article where you want it. --andreasegde 21:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget to put the page number in twice, Poppy. ref name="Page88"> Lewisohn. p88</ref. (Say hello to your heroic Dad for me.) --andreasegde 19:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Football
Hope you are getting better, but Liverpool are still in the middle of the table, and Leeds are under threat of being relegated to the Third Division (I'm old-fashioned, and it's still called that, for me...) Best wishes. --andreasegde 19:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Class Report
The Macca class has been slowly improving over the last term, and this is to be congratulated. Pupil LuciferMorgan has been especially diligent in his efforts to 'rein in' the more unruly members of the class, and (as class Monitor) his work is highly appreciated (especially concerning the alphabetical order of the books in the school library). Pupil Kingboyk has made a steady (and sure) progress throughout the last term - as always - and his position as 'class leader' is, without doubt, highly regarded. Pupil Andreasegde has been industrious and hard-working, although his aggressive attitude about books and their relevance should be curbed. Vera, Chuck and Dave have all been absent during the last term (due to an unfortunate accident) but we all hope they will make a speedy recovery and return soon. (It must be noted that they have made a definite contribution during their illness.)

All-in-all a good term, and I wish all the pupils every success in the future. --Mr Hornby - The Macca School of Economics 23:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Good health
Thanks for your last post, Tony - it really made my day :) Don't forget that bones take a long time to heal (although I've never broken one myself - sound of knocking on wood, i.e. my head) so look after yourself, and we all hope to see/read that you are fit and well, and fighting-fit in the near future. Best wishes to you and your lovely family. --andreasegde 16:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 7, November 2006

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Timing
What a great sense of timing you have. There I was, all on me lonesome on the Macca page - Kingboyk and LuciferMorgan doing other things, and then you check in. Nice one. Have a look at Macca and see what you think. I'm stuck on it at the moment, because I can't think what to do. It's up for a GA review so it will get some comments. Lovely to see you back, BTW. --andreasegde 01:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You can watch Wingspan on youTube (to cheer you up) for free: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KH0lejCplk --andreasegde 18:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

"Mad" quote
I put it in fer ya, la. (322 citations so far - and it hasn't finished yet...) A few more page numbers would be fab. (I'll put 'em in.) Hope you're feeling better. --andreasegde 19:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the page numbers. I have nothing on the Wings years, so it really helps. Ta, la... I'm now gonna start reading through the Bob Spitz book, and 'John', by Cynthia, so the citations are gonna get heavier, but only for The Beatles Years. After Macca gets an FA, we're all gonna descend on the John Lennon page. Keep watching this channel, folks...

"You dream when your'e awake, and you don't dream when you're sleeping"? Bugger me, that sounds like a Lennon lyric. It must be in yer Liverpudlian (Levi) jeans/genes - you talented sods... :) Keep well. --andreasegde 18:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I put the citations in. --andreasegde 18:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Football
Thanks for the results. It still doesn't look good, but at least the 'pool are not in danger. BTW, if you've got any of those lyric-inspiring drugs left, you can send them to me. :)) P.S. Hello, Poppy & Sammie :) --andreasegde 19:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Help
I copied this over from Macca's page: "I'm not sure if the chart positions should be in, as they are on the discography page, and they look messy." What do you think? --andreasegde 17:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

GA
GA review coming soon. Gird your loins... --andreasegde 06:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

He's 'Weird Al Yankowitz' (I think) and he was slightly famous in the 80s because of his cover of 'Bad' by Jackko. BTW, your mail made me laugh a lot. Sounds like you're coming back to your old self. Good news. --andreasegde 19:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

GA review
Ay up, "our kid" (that made me laugh, and feel nostalgic, because I haven't heard anyone use that in a long time.)

Anyway; the GA review only mentioned the Lead, and nothing about the article, so that's a massive plus. I have really enjoyed working together with everybody concerned ('cos I'm a team player at heart, and I think you know about that - being a Fireman.) We'll get an FA soon, and then (hopefully) we can all work together on the Lennon article, but right now I'm gonnna celebrate with a beer... --andreasegde 21:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

De do dow dont de dow
Well, my grandad used "sin shifter" to refer to the chaplain they used to go to in WW1, and he was Irish. As for moggy, no etymology lists it as Scouse, and between the 80 years of me and my dad's Scouse living, neither of us have heard it regarded as such. You also provided no reference to the contrary so... SteveLamacq43 18:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Macca again
Can you get the page number, or a reference for this: " - jacket on the back cover photograph of his first solo album, McCartney, and was one of the producers of the documentary." --andreasegde 16:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 'Zimbo'. I did it - slap me with a wet fish. I've been looking at Featured Articles for photos (as I thought they would be readily accepted) but I think I went too far with that one. I'll take it out. (Sound of man being slapped with a wet fish...) --andreasegde 17:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for correcting that 'awarded' thingy on Macca. Why don't you mention the medal that you were awarded on your talk page anymore? It was the 'George Medal' wasn't it? Put it back in (and stop talking about my humility... or I'll slap you with a wet fish :)) Cheers, our kid... --andreasegde 18:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah-ha! I've just clicked on "Dragons Can be Defeated",, and it's there! (I never knew what you meant by that before - doh!) Don't hide your light under a bushel of Wiki-links (as the bishop said to the actress..) --andreasegde 19:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sod 'em - put it in. (I'm proud to know someone that has one).


 * Anyway - the 'pool have 25 points (as you know) which is close to the top. Nice one. --The person that does not come from (the third division next year)... 20:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Jonjdodd
Will do, added to my watchlist. Gwernol 00:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

'Acts of great bravery'
The person that this page belongs to (in a Wikpedia sense) earned, and was awarded, the George and Mildred Medal. --Andrew Edge 03:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Who the 'eff is 'Sean de Garde'? :) --Andrew Edge 14:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! I'm tempted to change it to that... Sounds continental as well. Yeah, why not? That'll confuse 'em all :))--Sir Sean de Garde, M.P. (CBE, OBE, MBE) 15:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I do rather think it suits me old boy, even if one does say so oneself, wot,wot... Cabbie, take me to my club in Mayfair, and don't spare the horses...! --Sir Sean de Garde 15:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Spare a copper so the old woman can feed the nippers Guv? Vera, Chuck &amp; Dave 15:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Be off with you, you bally ruffian, or I'll set the dogs on you... --Sir Sean de Garde 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Old woman in a church. She turns to a her husband and whispers, "I've just let a big one go, do you think anyone heard it?" He turns to her and shouts, "Turn your hearing aid on." --Sir Sean de Garde 17:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the birthday greetings Tony (and the manly handshake :)) I'm out on the town for a 'swift half', as they say, so this message is brought to you by 'The Chelsea' pub in Linz, Austria.

"I am now for ze drinking of ze warm English beer and zat fog zat zey haff in jolly old London town, so I am. What are you zinking of mine Englsih, you foreign-type of person Du?" --Sir Sean de Garde 22:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That was me! I wrote it when I was out on the town. (Hic.) It's my revenge for the terrible words I have to listen to like "informations, he has brown hairs, my two childs", ad nauseum... I'll be back properly tomorrow. Cheers, la. --Sir Sean de Garde 20:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter Issue 8, December 2006

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Flag
What's with this flag thingy? I notice you keep taking it out (and I agree) but some 'drop-ins' keep putting it back. Maybe we should leave an 'invisible' note next to it on the edit page? --Sir Sean de Garde 16:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe you should stop deleting the flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.189.73.131 (talk • contribs)


 * And maybe you should sign in, user 172.189.73.131. --andreasegde 20:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It seems alright now. It may have been a glitch in the server. Sometimes I sign in and it asks me to sign in again. --Sir Sean de Garde 19:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The honourable Vera, Chuck and Dave a bally vandal? I'll have you soundly whipped to within an inch of your life, you rascallian, you. Bah, humbug... :)) --Sir Sean de Garde 20:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Who used to say that? Bugger, it was that comedian... Err... no, not Mike Yarwood - bugger... Dick Emery! Ah-hah! 3 points for the home side, and "the crowd goes wild". (View of someone with a failing memory looking smug... :) --Sir Sean de Garde 20:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 'Cupie doll'? You've got me there. I've got one for you, though. Where did Ernie Wise's mother live until her death? In a block of council flats in Swarcliffe, Leeds. What a tight git he was... --Sir Sean de Garde 21:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * W.C Fields? "Never work with animals or children..." Q: "Mr Fields, why are you always drunk?" A: "Madam, tomorrow, I will be sober, but you will still be ugly..." :)) --Sir Sean de Garde 21:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Holiday
I have been instructed to go to Spain on the 20th by my brother, so I will not be around until January, but I may contribute through his computer. I wish all your family a wonderful Xmas. --andreasegde 00:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Lennon
A suggestion has been made on the John Lennon talk page about how much information should go in. It would be nice of you to add a comment, if you wish to... --andreasegde 14:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Phil Ochs
So, are you actually one of a rare group of discerning folk who are both Beatles and Ochs fans? I thought they were limited to members of my nuclear family. Tvoz 18:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Was it Billy Bragg? Amazing coincidence - and about the youtube clips - there are some incredible Ochs ones! DId you see the one (if it's still up) on the Murray the K tv show - I couldn't believe my eyes.  Make sure you see part 2 which is a totally amazing interview with Phil on the show. Ochs was a genius, an underrated one, and it is immensely sad to me that he died the way he did. It shouldn't have happened.  We need him now - I often have thought over the years how he would have had what to say about so many things. I saw Phil live in concert and at rallies many times, and one incredibly memorable time was right up close at the opening of an election-campaign (Eugene McCarthy's '68 campaign) cabaret called "Eugene" where Phil, and Paul Simon, and I forget now who else, performed and hobnobbed among the crowd.  I was young - didn't quite have the nerve to walk right up to him and talk to him (boy, I would now) - but it was incredible. His concerts were always fabulous, including the gold suit 2nd show which my husband (then boyfriend) and I were at - the one that went to 3AM.  I have many great memories, but I'd trade them all for another Phil OChs song. At least there are those of us who remember him, and talk about him, and get his music out there - I've had several disputes here about including youtube clips of him - he's dead, his family wants his music out there in the world.  One encouraging thing is that the kids of my generation - like mine, in their 20s - are discovering him as well, probably from thumbing through their parents' record collection, and they love him too.  So maybe he'll get his proper due after all.  Sorry for going on so long - Phil Ochs is one of the things I'm passionate about, and it's a pleasure to meet someone who combines Beatles with Ochs. You can see it on my User page, by the way.  I should add Radiohead so I don't seem hopelessly old. Great to meet you too! Tvoz 21:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Tony Blair is a prince (excuse the expression) compared to the unelected imbecile we have. Phil would have loved it, even while hating it.  Sorry about your accident - stop typing!  Let me know if you need the Murray the K youtube link.  Tvoz 22:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Arggggh... it looks like the Murray the K Ochs videos have been pulled down at the request of Murray's estate. These are two of the URLS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGv8vZijiA and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUFN0kHloI but it looks like they're gone. However, it happens that my husband worked with Murray in the 70s for several months, and has recently been in touch with his son who maintains his archives and is likely the one who asked for this to be pulled down, so I am going to see if I can convince them to make these available. If I get them, I'll let you know.  I just happened to come across them a couple of weeks ago when I was trolling around You Tube and couldn't believe my eyes.  Anyway, I'll keep a look out for them.    As for Harvey Andrews - I never heard of him before, so thanks for the lead. I already did a tiny edit on his wiki page of course... Sounds like a talented guy - I'd like to hear his "Hey Sandy" - Kent State still looms large as one of the worst days of my youth. I was on a different college campus protesting the war that day. It could have been me.  You can see why I love Ochs.  (Saw you added him to your user page - keep the flame burning!) Tvoz 03:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I didn't go to Kent State - I was in NY, at CCNY (City College of New York) - there were protests all around the country that day in response to Nixon's going into Cambodia. When we got home, we heard the news from Ohio and knew it could have been any of us. Except the only saving grace was that John Lindsay was mayor of NY at the time and he would not allow cops on campus, nor were the National Guard normally called out onto college campuses - that's why people felt, rightly I believe, that Nixon was responsible for the murders, as well as the governor of Ohio - they colluded and sent in young troops with live ammunition to "send a message" to the rest of us. Maybe didn;t "mean" for those 4 to be killed, but when you play with fire you  play with fire. And they never apologized (as if that would help), in fact the White House was very nonchalant about it all, while the next days just about every campus in America was closed down by protestors - high schools too - a massive student strike in horror and protest, now not only against the Cambodian "incursion", but about the murder of protesting students. America kills its young - in some ways never recovered from that. It all is as if it happened yesterday, and it could have - it could have been me then, it could have been one of my kids now.  Still makes me furious.  I do believe Phil performed in England - I'll look it up for you later, as I'm curious now too.   Gotta run Tvoz 18:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Phil definitely toured England in (I think) 1966. He met with Lennon for the first time then - Phil knew Peter Asher's wife which may have been how that came to pass. He toured all over England, including London. And he wrote "Crucifixion" - I believe his greatest song - while traveling from city to city in England. Tvoz 23:43, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

By George!
Does this mean I get to call you "Sir Vera, Chuck & Dave"? And while I'm on the subject, don't you agree that Stella or her sister could have given a nod to poor old Dad and named a kid V C or D? At least as a middle name? Today's kids have no respect. Now, back to tossing medals. Tvoz 23:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Calm Down, Calm Down
Been at Uni, no interweb. Back home for Christmas so I thought I'd help you out by making things ten times worse. I'm helping! Have a gold Chrimble Brave Scouse Man--Crestville 23:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Macca, MBE's & User:Proteus
Proteus has withdrawn from the debate and, seemingly, Wikipedia. However, it may be that he has a point and it will need to be researched. You and Andresedge put a lot of work into this article, so I am going to suggest that you decide if you want to do the work or if you feel someone else should do it. Nothing that can't wait. Any response to Macca's talk page, pretty please.LessHeard vanU 00:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC) ps. So, who has been reading other editors comments on Tvoz's talk page?LessHeard vanU 00:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)pps I do it all the time - not Tvoz's specifically, just a few editors talk pages - it is the best way of learning Wiki stuff!


 * Uh oh. Now I feel guilty. Tvoz 00:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * But if he's gone, feel free to remove the bending-over-backwards edit I just posted under "Awards". I don't care either way, really.  Just didn't like his attitude. (And if he really left Wikipedia because of this tiny little spat - I wonder, is he 12 years old?  Never mind.) Tvoz 00:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Too much hard work has occurred on the article to settle for "close enough". I felt that Proteus had a valid point - I checked his talkpage and noted he has a lot of nobility subjects - but his approach was deplorable. If Tvoz's solution is sufficient for the time being, then we can get back to the point when we have all had a good (K)nights kip and allowed our emotions time to settle and then check it out.
 * Yes, it is slow tonight - must be all those Christians that appear to have gone on holiday for some reason...LessHeard vanU 01:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)ps. Is it too late to try for "A Hard Days Knighthood" pun in here?

What was your source? If correct it strikes me that there is a very simple formula, if you get letters after your name GM, CBE, PhD, etc. then these are awards (your social/class status does not change) but if the letters - such as S I R, or R E V E R E N D, or D O C T O R - appear before your name then that is an Appointment (your status/class changes, you are no longer a commoner), providing the title is not hereditary.LessHeard vanU 21:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I ought to bow out of this one
Ok, fellas, I've about reached my limit of understanding "appointed" and "awarded" and all of this stuff - my American brain can't really process much more of it - it all sounds the same to me. So I leave it up to you to correct what I wrote however you see fit. I did have a look at the aforementioned talk page and - WITHOUT INTENDING TO INSULT ANYONE - I have to say it is one of the funniest things I've read on Wikipedia, and maybe anywhere.

Personal favorites and my responses:
 * "I would like to know your opinion on Prince Peter of Yugoslavia being a prince - is he?"  I've often wondered this.
 * "I'm coming round to the idea that the article should be at Susan Cunliffe-Lister, Baroness Masham of Ilton"    me too.
 * "the Duke of Wellington at his funeral was called by Garter "Most High, Mighty, and Most Noble Prince. This is halfway between the style of a Duke (The Most High, Potent and Noble Prince) and a Uk Prince (The Most High, Most Mighty and Illustrious Prince)."  I really like this one.
 * "The more I learn about this endless maze of artistocratic titling conventions, the higher my opinion of Robespierre." hahahaha
 * "The original title 'Lady Effingham' was incorrect. Her step-mother-in-law, Madeline, Countess of Effingham, could be addressed as 'Lady Effingham', but not the wife of the eldest son of the the Earl of Effingham. She was 'Lady Howard of Effingham', to show that she was not the wife of a peer, but the wife of his eldest son, who had the courtesy title of 'Lord Howard of Effingham'."   Right. I could have told you that.
 * And finally, the fall-down-hilarious sections "Lady Mountbatten" and "old woman". I cannot improve upon perfection.

AGAIN- THE ABOVE WAS ALL SAID IN GOOD FUN, WITH NO NAMES ATTACHED, NO INSULTS INTENDED TO ANYONE. TRULY. It is 2AM, and some things just strike me as amusing. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night. Tvoz 07:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I do so hope that the header for this section was a pun!LessHeard vanU 21:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup. As I said somewhere, I saw The Queen the other night and have bowing on the brain.... Tvoz 05:22, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

VC&D: just saw your note on my page - thank you! If a London firebobby thinks I'm dead cool and funny, I must be doing something right.... Just got Beatles Love - I'm usually a purist, but I like it. Tvoz | talk 06:25, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Wishing you a wonderful holiday. Steelbeard1 12:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Seasonable Greetings
Thanks! And a happy Chrimble to you too! Raymond Arritt 16:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you also! LuciferMorgan 13:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)