User talk:Verities

''Hi everyone, I am new at this. I noticed there were suggestions for “Dusting, updating, and a balance of criticism” in the Talk:Prem Rawat/Archive 46. I agree that there is plenty of criticism in the body of the article, that so much does not need to be restated in the lead. So, below is a mock-up of my proposed updated lead to the Prem Rawat page; followed by a few miscellaneous revisions to the body. It is in Word format, to be converted into Wiki format once agreed upon and the footnote numbers will then rearrange themselves. A new, approved lead photo will also be coming forth in the future.'' Verities (talk) 22:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

PROPOSED WIKIPEDIA – PREM RAWAT “LEAD” – EDITS

!!! (italics = now omit, since it occurs in the body already; & bold = newly added, except for normal headings shown) !!!

Prem Pal Singh Rawat (Hindi: _____ ___ ____ ____; born 10 December 1957), also known as by the honorary title Maharaji, and formerly known as Guru Maharaj Ji, and Balyogeshwar, teaches a meditation practice he calls Knowledge.[1]

At the age of eight, he succeeded his father Hans Ji Maharaj as leader of the Divine Light Mission (Divya Sandesh Parishad) and as the new Satguru (English: Perfect Master) to millions of Indian followers.[2][3][4][5] '''Despite his youth, for the next five years he travelled across India during school breaks, often addressing vast audiences. [143]''' Rawat gained further prominence when he traveled to the West at age 13 to spread his message.[4][5][6] His claimed ability to impart direct knowledge of God attracted a great deal of interest from young adults, and many saw him as an incarnation of the divine. Under his inspired guidance charismatic leadership, the Divine Light Mission (DLM) “Knowledge” became the fastest growing new religious spiritual movement in the West, ''though it was sometimes described as a cult. Rawat also attracted media attention, being ridiculed in the US for his youth and his supposed divine status, with journalists noting luxury automobiles and multiple residences made available to him by his followers''.

When Rawat turned sixteen in 1973 he took administrative control of the American Divine Light Mission (DLM) organisation and became more active in guiding the movement.[7] The following May, against his mother's wishes, he married an American.[7] His mother disowned him and appointed his eldest brother as head of the Indian DLM.[8] Rawat retained control of the movement outside India and later abandoned the Indian aspects of his teachings to make his message more widely acceptable.[9][10][11] The Divine Light Mission was disbanded in the West in the early 1980s, succeeded by the organizations Elan Vital (1983) and later with The Prem Rawat Foundation (2001).[12] and Words of Peace Global (2008) [144].

The core of Rawat's teaching is that the human need for fulfillment can be satisfied by turning within to a constant source of peace and joy. Rather than a body of dogma, he emphasizes a direct experience of transcendence, which he claims is accessible through the techniques of meditation which he teaches. Prem Rawat has been criticized for a lack of intellectual content in his public discourses.


 * "There are two kinds of people in this world – those who have asked the questions and those who have not yet asked the questions: Who am I?  …  What is the purpose of my life?”  Where do these questions come from?  The answer is not written in any book.  It’s not in words.  It lies in a feeling.  Contentment, peace, understanding – these are important to us." -- Prem Rawat, Potenza, Italy 2009 [143]

'''In the last four decades, Prem Rawat has crossed the globe countless times addressing over 12 million people, on every continent. He has a physically grueling schedule. As a private airplane and helicopter pilot, he regularly tallies 100,000 miles and attends over two events a week, in an average year. [143]'''

PROPOSED WIKIPEDIA - PREM RAWAT “BODY” – EDITS

• under 1960s, move this to beginning of 1970-1973

In 1970, many of his new Western followers flew to India to see him, and were present at the India Gate, Delhi event when where on November 8 1970, still only twelve years old, he delivered an address known as the "Peace Bomb", which marked the start of his international work.[24][25]

• under 1983–2000s

Elan Vital states that the only effective way of reaching out to the over 80 countries where his message is now promoted is by leased private jet, which Rawat self-pilots, flying around a quarter million miles a year.[20]


 * (add 3 paragraphs: rearrange into chronological order 2005 – 2010, with the last 2 paragraphs)

'''Besides public events, he is increasingly asked to speak as an honorary guest at smaller formal gatherings, including the United Nations’ Day of Peace at the Australian Parliament House and the United Nations’ 60th Annivarsary in 2005, as well as the Italian and Argentine Senates in 2006. [143]'''

'''Over the last three decades, Prem Rawat has been honored by state governors and city mayors across the United States and Europe, and has received the keys and seals of cities in North America, South America and Japan. In 2006, he was awarded the title “Ambassador of Peace” by the Rector of the International University of Peace (UNIPAZ) in Brazil. [143]'''

'''In 2008, Words of Peace Global (WOPG) was incorporated as an international charitable foundation, registered in the Netherlands. It is funded entirely by donations from supporters and all its activities are free of charge. WOPG is composed largely of volunteers. WOPG hosts events with Prem Rawat ranging from small, intimate talks to international tours. They also host television programs on a wide range of channels across the world, and put out regular LiveStream broadcasts and webcasts of Prem Rawat’s talks. [145]'''

• under Teachings

… These techniques are known as the ‘Knowledge’. In his public talks he does not quote from Hindu, Muslim, and Christian scriptures, but he relies on this inner experience for his inspiration and guidance, and emphasizes that this Knowledge is ‘universal’, not Indian in nature. [105] [106] [107][108]


 * (add last paragraph)

'''Introduced in 2005, The Keys, a multimedia presentation available in nine languages, is a program of five DVD packs which Rawat says prepares the student for receiving Knowledge. Knowledge is attained through initiation, with a special session of the sixth Key, which teaches the four techniques of meditation, and is claimed to then allow the practitioner to "go within". [140]'''

• add new section Personal

'''Prem Rawat lives with his wife Marolyn in Malibu, California. They have four grown children. He holds an Airline Transport Pilot License and has type ratings for a number of fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters.[141] His résumé lists skills in computer graphics, computer-aided design and the development of aviation software. He is listed as co-inventor on a U.S. patent for a world-time aviational watch.'''

• under Footnotes (new)

140. ^ The Keys - Exploring The Keys (http://www.wopg.org/en/exploring-the-keys-intro) at the Words of Peace Global website (2011)

141. ^ Cagan, A., Peace is Possible: The Life and Message of Prem Rawat, pp.228

143. ^ About - Prem Rawat (http://www.wopg.org/en/about-words-of-peace/prem-rawat) at the Words of Peace Global website (2011)

144. ^ About TPRF – About Prem Rawat (http://www.tprf.org/en/about-tprf/about-prem-rawat) at The Prem Rawat Foundation website (2011)

145. ^ About - Words of Peace Global (http://www.wopg.org/en/about-words-of-peace) at the Words of Peace Global website (2011)

• under External links (new)

• Words of Peace Global

Verities (talk) 22:49, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello Verities, welcome to Wikipedia. I don't want to discourage you and I hope I don't, but you have started out on one of the most hotly contested articles on Wikipedia. We can only work with what reputable sources say about the subject, so the fact that you are "very familiar with the subject" may not actually be a positive qualification. What is needed is more high quality sources, especially ones that tell us about the last 30 years of Prem Rawat's life. I earnestly suggest you start working on a less contested article first. Just pick a topic that interests you and go for it. Especially learn more about reputable sources. If I can help at any time, please ask, either on my talk page or by e-mail. Rumiton (talk) 13:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Rumiton, thank you for your reply. Queston, about your comment "We can only work with what reputable sources say about the subject".  I just read your link "Especially learn more about reputable sources". So sources like the websites Words of Peace Global or The Prem Rawat Foundation, are primary and not reputable/reliable?  I would think a primary source would be good since they do not want to give false information.  So I need a third party, secondary sources instead, like the secondary source book Peace is Possible by A. Cagan?  Any other comments about what I proposed above?
 * Verities (talk) 17:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * WoPG and TPRF are certainly primary sources, so can only be used for information that is uncontroversial and "not unduly self-serving." These definitions are applied strictly. You would do well to reconsider your statement that a primary source would be good since they do not want to give false information. Primary sources are often full of self-serving and false information. If you think about the publications put out by controversial religious groups (Mormons, Scientologists, Catholics etc) you will see what I mean. Wikipedia can not become a voice for advertising any particular person or philosophy. Peace is Possible has been considered as a source, but the lack of reputation of the author as a biographer and the publishing house (Cagan and Mighty River Press) and also the generally adulatory tone of the book, have gone against them. Please take the time (it might be quite a few hours) to look through the article archives where these questions will be answered more fully. Thanks for your interest. Rumiton (talk) 17:57, 19 November 2011 (UTC)