User talk:Vexations/Archive 6

Wikidata weekly summary #217
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.  Read the full report &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 15:33, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Events/Blogs/Press
 * Connecting OpenStreetMap and Wikidata, blog post by Mapbox
 * Past: office hour on IRC (log)
 * Now: ISMB 2016 Editathon
 * Upcoming: Viquimarató de Wikidata sobre Ramon Llull
 * Upcoming: OpenSym
 * Monitoring the Gender Gap with Wikidata Human Gender Indicators
 * An Empirical Evaluation of Property Recommender Systems for Wikidata and Collaborative Knowledge Bases
 * Mapping street names to Wikidata entities they refer to and enriching OpenStreetMap with linked data
 * Other Noteworthy Stuff
 * The removal of Persondata from the English Wikipedia is completed. There are still much information to migrate to Wikidata at KasparBot's tool.
 * Tour de France data is coming from Wikidata in at least 3 Wikipedias
 * Freebase API will be shut down on August 31
 * TXT Werk is now using Wikidata to identify entities (previously Freebase)
 * Magnus' reference drag and drop script is now a gadget
 * Got an idea for a cool project around Wikidata but need some funding? A project grant might be an option.
 * There are several full PhD/postdoc positions available at TU Dresden with Markus including work on Wikidata
 * Magnus' Wiki Loves Monuments tool now also reads cultural identifiers from Wikidata and was switched to use SPARQL
 * Did you know?
 * Newest properties: archive date, permanent duplicated item, throughput, NAIF ID, point of penalty, Transferred Account Data Interchange Group Code, Estonian Research Portal person ID, bateau d'intérêt patrimonial, Cultural heritage database in Austria ObjektID, Nomisma ID, WikiTree ID, Estonian cultural monument ID, BacDive ID
 * Query examples: timeline of space probes (source), countries with most UNESCO World Heritage Sites (source), places in America named after places in England (source), emergency number by country size (source)
 * Development
 * Working on an infographic to represent the flow of data in Wikidata
 * Work on multi-content revisions in order to be able to store an entity (item, property, mediainfo) and wiki text in the same page (This is needed for Commons) (T107595)
 * Did more interviews with editors as preparation for the work on automated list generation for Wikipedia and co based on Wikidata data
 * Fixed a bug with data parsing in Korean and a few other languages (T139509)
 * Added "non" as a language code for monolingual text values (T137115)
 * Removed display of calendar model for dates with precision of 10 years or larger (T133973)
 * Fixed issues in some of the forms on special pages on mobile (T138413)
 * Disabled PDF export in item and property pages (T136814)
 * Worked on making it possible to have quantities with no bounds set (T115270)
 * Monthly Tasks
 * Hack on one of these.
 * Help develop the next summary here!
 * Contribute to a Showcase item
 * Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
 * Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
 * Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.

Wikidata weekly summary #218
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.  Read the full report &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 17:06, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Events/Blogs/Press
 * From Damascus to Berlin: A very special internship at Wikimedia Deutschland
 * Wikidata als Universalbibliographie: ein Kommentar
 * First image, good image?
 * Other Noteworthy Stuff
 * Since Pokémon is all the rage at the moment here is a short reminder that we have WikiProject Pokémon for them
 * TIB is looking for a Wikimedian in Residence in the Open Science Lab
 * The code for the Primary Sources Tool has been moved from the Google to the Wikidata organisation on github.
 * The ISCB competition for 2016 has been announced
 * Use Wikipedia “article main images” to find candidate images for Wikidata
 * StrepHit fact extraction agent v.1.1-beta has been released
 * Did you know?
 * Newest properties: GCatholic church ID, GoodReads book ID, QUDT unit ID, Queensland Heritage Register ID, National Library of Wales Archives and Manuscripts, EU River Basin District code, right to vote, GoodReads author ID, title of chess player, BVPH ID
 * Query examples: letters with more than two forms (source), metro stations (source), railway incidents (source), pyramids in Egypt (source), women described as wife and men described as husband (source), neuroinformatics coauthor network (source), nationalities of people with an article in the Bavarian Wikipedia (source), Irish general elections and their winners (source), types of historical monuments (source), Alpine four-thousanders (source), Alpine peaks (source), language statements that point to a country instead of a language (source)
 * Newest database reports: list of people who died on their birthday
 * Development
 * Map layers are coming soon to the Query Service
 * A lot of clean-up under the hood for the user interface
 * More interviews with editors in preparation for automated list generation
 * Fixed a bug where forms on the mobile site looked broken (T138413)
 * More work on Citoid integration for easier reference adding
 * Added Cape Verdean Creole (T127435)
 * Monthly Tasks
 * Hack on one of these.
 * Help develop the next summary here!
 * Contribute to a Showcase item
 * Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
 * Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
 * Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.

Use of thumbnails in Infoboxes
Hello! Thank you for your recent contributions to Ronnie Woo. I did have one note for you. I am working on a maintenance project to clean up Category:Pages using infoboxes with thumbnail images. In the future, please do not use thumbnails when adding images to an infobox (see WP:INFOBOXIMAGE). If you have any questions, let me know! :-) You can respond on my talk page, or here. If you respond here, please include  in your response so I am notified. -- Zackmann08  (Talk to me/What I been doing) 16:37, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I had missed that one, . Thanks for catching it. Mduvekot (talk) 16:44, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You bet! -- Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:09, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

King Kong Article
Hey there Mduvekot. You disapproved my article for King Kong Agency because of "few" citations. I have added more citations that content. Citation from Inc, HuffPost, Elite Daily, Engadget and more. This is quite confusing because I can point you to hundreds of pages with much less citations that the one that I provided.

Can you please explain to me more clear what you mean by reliable sources? The domains that I am adding are probably the most reliable pages there are out there.

King Regards Tolkinas (talk) 12:07, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, I declined to move the draft into mainspace because I didn't think that the subject was notable. In reviewing the sources I found that:
 * http://anthillonline.com/straight-outta-anthill-australias-coolest-companies-2015/ is about Blamey Saunders Hears
 * http://www.inc.com/aj-agrawal/6-ways-young-entrepreneurs-can-finance-business-ideas.html is about financing a startup
 * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charmaine-belonio/6-ways-to-make-your-custo_b_9741344.html is about customer retention
 * http://elitedaily.com/news/politics/donald-trumps-manipulation-social-media-made-gop-frontrunner/1477616/ is about Donald Trump
 * https://www.engadget.com/2016/06/22/where-digital-advertising-is-going-next-user-experience-and-spyi/ doesn't mention King Kong at all
 * https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/274314 has a quote from Suby, but nothing about King Kong
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBsVUlgxjQU is a primary source
 * http://www.topgunba.com.au/top-gun-webtv-eye-on-the-future/ is a primary source
 * http://kingkong.com.au/blog/ is a primary source
 * In summary, the sources do not support the content of the article and there is no significant coverage of King Kong in reliable sources that are independent of the topic. A mention, even in a typically reliable source is not enough, it isn't significant coverage. Primary sources are not acceptable. You don't have too few citations, they don't meet our requirements. All the best,Mduvekot (talk) 12:43, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Jimmy Lifton filmography
It is the same person I just forgot my password and forgot to attach and email so had to make a new name. Thank you for your advice. Chadwick Berk (talk) 02:30, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Request on 15:40:07, 24 July 2016 for assistance on AfC submission by Avanangel
Avanangel (talk) 15:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I need to know how to prove this artist is notable, as he is a very famous artist globally in the world of Impressionism. He won the prestigious Fountainbleu award, and has been in many galleries, books, and magazines. He trained under two very famous artists. Was the article turned down because I am not well known? If that is the case, I can get another person to be the author of the article - someone notable. Please be specific as to why he is not considered notable. Thanks. Avanangel (talk) 15:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Firstly, It has nothing to do with your notability, anyone can contribute to Wikipedia. Secondly, please let me know if you have read and understood Help:Referencing_for_beginners. I declined to publish (move from Draft: into Article: namespace) the article because I could not check the references you provided. They are so vague that they're not usable. For example, you cite "Oil Painting with the Masters". I can't tell which book that is. It could be this one:, but I have no way of knowing that. I also can't tell which statement it is supposed to provide a source for. For example, you write that he was born and raised in Konstanz. Is that claim supported by Salaski's book? If so, you should have cited that, using an inline citation as follows:

Frick was born and raised in Konstanz. .
 * That renders as:
 * Frick was born and raised in Konstanz.
 * Please rewrite the article so that all claims about Frick can be verified. A couple of other things: The Prix de Salon in Fontainebleau (you misspelled Fontainebleau as Fontainbleau BTW) is not notable to my knowledge. Do not uppercase nouns, as you would in German. Support vague claims like "His works have shown in exhibits in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, and England" with facts (which museum, solo or group, date, a reference to a review of that exhibition, etc.) Avoid peacock terms like "master painter" and "very famous", they add nothing to the article but sounds impressive. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. In other words, if I write an article about an artist, you should not be able to tell if I like that artist's work or not.
 * Please rewrite the article so that all claims about Frick can be verified. A couple of other things: The Prix de Salon in Fontainebleau (you misspelled Fontainebleau as Fontainbleau BTW) is not notable to my knowledge. Do not uppercase nouns, as you would in German. Support vague claims like "His works have shown in exhibits in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, and England" with facts (which museum, solo or group, date, a reference to a review of that exhibition, etc.) Avoid peacock terms like "master painter" and "very famous", they add nothing to the article but sounds impressive. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. In other words, if I write an article about an artist, you should not be able to tell if I like that artist's work or not.

All the best, Mduvekot (talk) 17:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Request on 15:40:07, 24 July 2016 for assistance on AfC submission by Avanangel
Avanangel (talk) 15:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I need to know how to prove this artist is notable, as he is a very famous artist globally in the world of Impressionism. He won the prestigious Fountainbleu award, and has been in many galleries, books, and magazines. He trained under two very famous artists. Was the article turned down because I am not well known? If that is the case, I can get another person to be the author of the article - someone notable. Please be specific as to why he is not considered notable. Thanks. Avanangel (talk) 15:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Firstly, It has nothing to do with your notability, anyone can contribute to Wikipedia. Secondly, please let me know if you have read and understood Help:Referencing_for_beginners. I declined to publish (move from Draft: into Article: namespace) the article because I could not check the references you provided. They are so vague that they're not usable. For example, you cite "Oil Painting with the Masters". I can't tell which book that is. It could be this one:, but I have no way of knowing that. I also can't tell which statement it is supposed to provide a source for. For example, you write that he was born and raised in Konstanz. Is that claim supported by Salaski's book? If so, you should have cited that, using an inline citation as follows:

Frick was born and raised in Konstanz. .
 * That renders as:
 * Frick was born and raised in Konstanz.
 * Please rewrite the article so that all claims about Frick can be verified. A couple of other things: The Prix de Salon in Fontainebleau (you misspelled Fontainebleau as Fontainbleau BTW) is not notable to my knowledge. Do not uppercase nouns, as you would in German. Support vague claims like "His works have shown in exhibits in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, and England" with facts (which museum, solo or group, date, a reference to a review of that exhibition, etc.) Avoid peacock terms like "master painter" and "very famous", they add nothing to the article but sounds impressive. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. In other words, if I write an article about an artist, you should not be able to tell if I like that artist's work or not.
 * Please rewrite the article so that all claims about Frick can be verified. A couple of other things: The Prix de Salon in Fontainebleau (you misspelled Fontainebleau as Fontainbleau BTW) is not notable to my knowledge. Do not uppercase nouns, as you would in German. Support vague claims like "His works have shown in exhibits in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, and England" with facts (which museum, solo or group, date, a reference to a review of that exhibition, etc.) Avoid peacock terms like "master painter" and "very famous", they add nothing to the article but sounds impressive. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. In other words, if I write an article about an artist, you should not be able to tell if I like that artist's work or not.

All the best, Mduvekot (talk) 17:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #219
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.  Read the full report &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 08:33, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Events/Blogs/Press
 * Playing with Wikidata: communities over water
 * Interview with Lydia for her upcoming keynote at the DBpedia conference
 * Other Noteworthy Stuff
 * The Olympic Games are coming up soon. Let's make Wikidata a good place to get open data about the Olympics!
 * StrepHit's grant is up for renewal and could use your endorsement
 * There is a sub-reddit for Wikidata
 * We now have P3000 and Q26000000!
 * Did you know?
 * Newest properties: marriageable age, age of consent, age of candidacy, age of majority, partition coefficient water/octanol, software quality assurance, IBSF ID, FIL ID, has grammatical case, GOST 7.67 cyrillic, Taekwondo Data ID, aircraft registration prefix, DSBE ID, Snapchat username, UNDP country code, UIC numerical country code, UIC alphabetical country code, ARLHS Lighthouse ID, Maritime identification digits, wheel arrangement, LBT person ID, patronym or matronym, host, habitat, Spenserians person ID, SNAP ID
 * Query examples: most cited Danish people (source), most self-citing authors (source), topics of series (source), human settlements, north of the Arctic Circle (source), poles of inaccessibility (source), people with the same family and given name (source), compositions for organ and orchestra/compositions for organ and anything else (source), people with a statement with start time / end time qualifiers over 100 years apart (source), causes of death for noble people (source), long-running noble families (source)
 * Numbers on Database reports/without claims by site for some projects decreased (e.g. dewiki), remained consistently low (e.g. nlwiki), or recently increased to new highs (e.g. enwiki).
 * Development
 * Finished first rough prototype for structured data on Commons. Wanted to sent out announcement on Friday but one configuration issue is still unsolved. Should be solved in the next 1 or 2 days.
 * We are adding a "no match found" message to the suggester that you get when selecting an item or property while adding a new statement for example (T140085)
 * When a query result contains a mathematical expression it will soon be rendered correctly (T137784)
 * Added support for Haida (hai) for monolingual text values (T138131)
 * Finalized the infographic on data flow. [[Media:Infographic on the flow of Wikidata (for offWiki usage).svg|For off-wiki usage]] and [[Media:Infographic on the flow of Wikidata (for onWiki usage).svg|For on- wiki usage]].
 * Monthly Tasks
 * Hack on one of these.
 * Help develop the next summary here!
 * Contribute to a Showcase item
 * Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
 * Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
 * Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.

Thank you
Hi! I don't know if you like stars or not, but wanted in any case to thank you for your careful and convincing analysis at Articles for deletion/Joan Melnick. Excellent, thank you! Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:35, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi! I don't know if you like stars or not, but wanted in any case to thank you for your careful and convincing analysis at Articles for deletion/Joan Melnick. Excellent, thank you! Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:35, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #220
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.  Read the full report &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 21:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Discussions
 * Notability of items for templates
 * One or more property examples?
 * Events/Blogs/Press
 * Ongoing: Repository Fringe
 * Ongoing: ICBO (slides)
 * Upcoming: CCBWIKI
 * Localités au fil de l'eau
 * WDQ, obsolete?
 * BigQuery, Wikidata & AgreeList — idea
 * Other Noteworthy Stuff
 * You can now see the very first steps towards structured data support for Wikimedia Commons.
 * You can now translate all sister project pages to your language, like Wikidata:Wikipedia. Please, link to them from your projects to give your fellow users chance to learn Wikidata basics.
 * You can now enable the CoordinateDiffMap Gadget in your preferences to get a map for coordinate changes.
 * There is a new command line tool to extract taxonomies from Wikidata
 * Simple guide to help Wikipedia editors find Wikidata IDs. In English - please translate into other languages!
 * You can now use Wikidata to do cool things in Mapbox with the Mapbox iOS SDK
 * IPTC's NewsCodes Working Group has mapped the top two levels of hierarchical terms of Media Topics to Wikidata
 * WMDE's progress report for the annual plan grant with a focus on Wikidata has been published
 * Need to query Wikidata, but lack SPARQL skills? There is now Wikidata:Request a query for you!
 * Did you know?
 * Newest properties: residence time of water, railway signalling system, located in protected area, Rolling Stone artist ID, French national research structure identifier, backup or reserve team or crew, laws applied, surface tension, Standard Geographical Classification code, World Archery ID, Conservatoire du littoral ID, Australian Heritage Database Place ID, Cadw Monument ID, Marine Regions Geographic ID, valid in place, Galiciana ID, zanikleobce.cz abandoned objects ID, Untappd brewery ID, retirement age
 * Query examples: frequency of Romans' praenomen (source), movies by number of actors who studied at RADA (source), actors directed by Tony Scott + number of appearances (source), actors directed more than 20 times by the same director (source), actors directed more than 20 times by the same director with years (source)
 * Newest database reports: list of Romans, minimum ages by country
 * Development
 * Got the demo system for structured data on Commons ready for first show (see above)
 * Wikipedia editors will soon get a notification when an article they created was connected to a Wikidata item. Thanks Matej! (T110604)
 * Worked on improving handling of +-1 etc in quantities (T115269)
 * Added a message to the suggester that pops up when you search for items or properties. When no matching property or item is found it will now tell you. (T140085)
 * Considerably improved our browser tests to find more issues before You ever see them.
 * Added Haida as a language available for monolingual text properties (T138131)
 * Monthly Tasks
 * Hack on one of these.
 * Help develop the next summary here!
 * Contribute to a Showcase item
 * Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
 * Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
 * Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.

Wikidata weekly summary #221
Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.  Read the full report &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 09:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Events/Blogs/Press
 * Past: Repository Fringe (slides)
 * Past: WikiConference India 2016
 * Upcoming: Wikidata-Hackathon (topic is SPARQL) in München on 11th of August
 * Upcoming: SMWCon (call for contributions)
 * Visualizing the DNC vs RNC conventions with Wikipedia+Wikidata+BigQuery
 * Livin’ on the edge
 * Communes orphelines?
 * Paper: Getting the units right: inferring identifier units from a corpus of formulae in Wikipedia and Wikidata
 * Paper: Querying Wikidata: Comparing SPARQL, Relational and Graph Databases
 * Paper: WIKIREADING: A Novel Large-scale Language Understanding Task over Wikipedia
 * Other Noteworthy Stuff
 * We now have two new pages to find property proposal discussions that need input: Property proposal/Overview, Property proposal/Attention needed
 * WSDM2017 Cup on knowledge base quality and search including tasks about vandalism detection in Wikidata (announcement)
 * Sitelinks for the new Tulu Wikipedia can be added
 * Wikidata Toolkit 0.7.0 has been released
 * Several grant proposals that could use endorsements or discussion: Wikidata module, StrepHit IEG renewal, Librarybase, WikiFactMine
 * 15% of items connected to articles on Japanese Wikipedia have no statements (report with categories on these pages)
 * Wikidata descriptions on mobile web version of Wikipedia
 * Job opening at TIB
 * Did you know?
 * Newest properties: wheelbase, IWM memorial ID, spatial reference system, precipitation height, ISBN publisher prefix, Indonesian ethnicity code, package management system, adjacent building, EPPO Code, sheet music, UK National Archives ID, open period to, open period from, closed on, open days, ITU letter code, Legacies of British Slave-ownership person ID, flag bearer, Iranica ID
 * Query examples: places of worship in France (source), former capitals (source), Edinburgh-born authors and their notable works (source), movies by David Lynch by duration (source), descendants of Gustav Vasa, people sharing the same name, the other way around, Tony awards nominees and winners (source)
 * Newest WikiProjects: Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece
 * Newest database reports: List of Roman dictators
 * Development
 * Glorian joins the team for 6 months as a product management intern
 * Example dialog on query.wikidata.org now shows categories (T140576)
 * Map result view now allows layers and multi colored dots (preview)
 * Made the tatus bar messages in the Query Service translatable (T140383)
 * Made it easier to notice that embedded Query Service results can be edited and are coming from Wikidata (T138766)
 * Improved the way error messages are displayed while editing items (T141880, T141879)
 * Worked on layout improvements to have a better visual separation of qualifiers and references (T141862)
 * Added a line to the suggester to indicate when no matching item or property was found (T142034)
 * Fixed and issue with scroll bars in the logo section of the ArticlePlaceholder (T139977)
 * Worked more on making it possible to translate an article in the ArticlePlaceholder (T124036)
 * Worked on fixing link in in other languages section for ArticlePlaceholder (T137933)
 * Worked more on groundwork for multi content revisions which we need for structured data support for Commons in order to have structured and unstructured data on the file page at the same time (T141878)
 * Worked on automatically creating a mediainfo entity when adding a statement - so far it is only possible by adding a label or description (T140760)
 * Monthly Tasks
 * Hack on one of these.
 * Help develop the next summary here!
 * Contribute to a Showcase item
 * Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
 * Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
 * Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.

Hi from David Senater
Hi there,

Thanks for looking at my profile, I added some links. The is a link to my run for effected office on Wikipedia already. Tell me what I need to do to post my info.

Regards,

David — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Senater (talk • contribs) 19:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi, since you refer to it as your "profile", I would suggest that an appropriate place for a profile is LinkedIn, not Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a social network. Your autobiography cited no independent, reliable sources. You need to find and cite such sources, but even if you did, we still strongly discourage writing autobiographies. Mduvekot (talk) 20:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Alex Deans AfD
Hi there, please do let me know if I've inaccurately represented, or just plain misunderstood your views, or both! It can certainly happen and I'd like to fix it when I have, as I have no desire to misstate the opinions of other editors--I'm really only interested in how the opinion lines up with guidelines. Thanks! Innisfree987 (talk) 00:07, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for stopping by. I have the impression that you have tried to argue that my position at the AfD is untenable because you think that it necessarily follows from the premises "The CBC and the Globe and Mail are usually reliable sources" and "The problem is not the number of sources" that Deans is notable per WP:Notability_people and that I have somehow violated the rules of inference by not arriving at the same conclusion. I also can't escape the impression that you think that I am second-guessing the sources, and that in doing so, I may be at odds with WP:NPOV. Then you go on to say that you are trying to assume good faith, and refer to "someone" (who, me?) who changes their mind (again, me?) and say that it begins to feel like IDONTLIKEIT. I have the impression that you are trying to imply that it is difficult for you to AGF with regards to my edits because I am inconsistent (I change my mind) and biased (IDONTLIKEIT). I hope you agree that such arguments have no place in an AfD.


 * Now, I think that your argument goes something like this; If independent, reliable sources exist, and if no exclusionary criteria apply then it is possible to create a balanced article about a subject, thus the article, regardless of the state it is in, can be improved and it follows that the article passes AfD.


 * I almost agree, but would like to add that coverage must be significant, and that sources ought to be evaluated each time they are used. Not everything the New York Times writes automatically confers notability on the subject.


 * My argument hinges on two reasons from the deletion policy;
 * Articles for which thorough attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed
 * Articles whose subjects fail to meet the relevant notability guideline


 * I argue that some of the claims, like the ones that Deans is a public speaker, scientist or an artist, cannot be verified and that the subject fails to meet the relevant notability guidelines.


 * I wanted to point out that the claim from first sentence in the the lead and replicated in the infobox that Deans is an inventor, artist and public speaker is not supported by the sources. The first source used to support that statement is the Windsor Star, http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/inventive-windsor-teen-named-future-leader-by-macleans-magazine who calls him a scientist but does not elaborate on his research, doesn't mention his public speaking, and has this to say about his art: "he’s been teaching himself the art of portraiture", and shows a picture of Deans posing by some of his work. The second source http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/alex-deans-wins-ontario-science-centre-award-for-iaid-device-1.3090751 makes no mention of him either being an inventor, artist or a public speaker. They do refer to him as an award-winning scientist, but, like the Windsor Star, do not elaborate on just what kind of scientist he is, and what his area of research is.


 * I don't see any evidence that Deans is notable as what the article claims he is: a scientist, artist and public speaker. He might be notable as a science fair winner, if we agreed with the sources that high school science fair winners are notable. I don't think that's the case.


 * I hope this clarifies my position for you. All the best, Mduvekot (talk) 06:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi there, thanks for your message.


 * So to start with the easiest thing to clear up: the "someone" was me, not you (i.e. "I, Innisfree, pointed out to you, Mduvekot, and then..."). I should have just said that--very sorry to have added to difficulties with straight-up poor phrasing.


 * We agree that "coverage must be significant, and that sources ought to be evaluated each time they are used. Not everything the New York Times writes automatically confers notability on the subject."


 * I think we disagree a bit about the relevance of the special notability guidelines (SNGs), but I don't have much to add that I haven't already said in the AfD.


 * As for changing one's mind. This is not in itself a problem to me. It's commonplace--I myself have done it often!--to change one's mind if another editor points out a policy that I was either not aware of at all or hadn't thought to apply to the situation at hand.


 * What concerns me is moving the goalposts. I understood your statement "The problem is not the number of sources" to mean you believed there were enough sources to meet the principles of GNG (i.e. "substantial coverage," as we agree--essentially the same wording in WP:BASIC), but that you simply didn't think that standard applied ("I'm not convinced that WP:GNG applies") and instead you described the ways the subjects doesn't meet the SNGs. I pointed out my understanding of consensus that if a subject meets GNG/BASIC, then the subject need not meet any SNGs. At that point, you said there wasn't a sufficient number of sources to constitute "substantial coverage". But of course the number of sources has not changed. Had your understanding of policy changed? I could totally understand if an editor hadn't previously been aware of, say, the requirement for "substantial coverage" and then in retrospect revised their opinion to something like, "I misunderstood how many sources were necessary, and so in fact the number of sources is a problem." In absence of such an explanation for why you previously thought the number of sources was not a problem, and now you do, and in light of the vehemence of your first comment, I thought and continue to think it was appropriate to raise the concerns I did, with the caveat that maybe there's more to your argument and that I hope you'd add it if I was missing something. That latter gesture was intended to raise the concern as WP:CIVILly as possible. But I definitely could not agree that rigorously interrogating for consistency and bias in how we apply our guidelines is anything other than entirely appropriate, even essential discussion for AfD. I personally hope that the same rigor will always be applied to my analysis!


 * As I think about it, it's seeming to me my mistake was in suggesting that issues of consistency or bias necessarily strained the assumption of good faith. While I continue to think they could be errors in the application of guidelines (I still don't quite understand why you previously thought the number of sources wasn't a problem, but now you do), I think those are potential errors a person could make while still being in good faith. So I'll go strike that comment now, from the AfD. I apologize for suggesting you might not be in good faith, I should not have done. I sincerely hope you can accept my apology and I thank you for being willing to discuss with me even after I said that.


 * Thanks much. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:22, 11 August 2016 (UTC)