User talk:Viriditas/Archive 8

Mattisse
I will try not to respond to Mattisse. But it's hard to sit back when three editors are triple-teaming you.

BTW, doesn't this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMatthew_Abelson indicate that User:Whpq is a sock-puppet? Rosencomet (talk) 19:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse and Rosencomet - a suggestion
Hi, Viriditas. I appreciate your efforts to informally mediate between these two. It's a contentious situation with a lot of history. However, having looked over your comments on Mattisse's page, I am a bit concerned. I think you need to look over the Starwood-related RfCs, Mediations, and Arbitration. A number of people (myself included) have posted the links in exchanges with you, so you should have them at hand. I think Mattisse is getting frustrated because you are asking her to explain things that have already been gone over extensively and repeatedly, and I don't think she should have to repeat herself again because you haven't read up on the history. Again, I appreciate your efforts, but I don't think asking people to restate the history for you will make people feel cooperative. I would also suggest that you don't tell one party in the discussion that you think they're being harrassed, and then expect the other editor to treat you as a neutral party. I thank you for trying to help with this, but I'd appreciate you taking these points into consideration. -  Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫ ♦ ♫ 01:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, this edit summary is very troubling: It no longer looks like you are attempting mediation, rather it appears you are advocating for Rosencomet and making personal attacks on Mattisse, calling her a "troll" and a "fool". This is unacceptable. -  Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫ ♦ ♫ 02:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas


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Re:Cuisine of Hawaii
Wow, thanks for your long post. You're welcome to remove/edit any paragraph or source you find inappropriate or irrelevant. After you complete your removal, I will let you know if I think the removal is too excessive. I think it is the fastest way to settle the issue. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:06, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No, wait, I just found that another editor has been involved in this?! Perhaps you would need to contact this editor as well, or state your objections on the talk page of the article, if you think the sources are not the best. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I commented it out again. Please join the discussion on the talk page of the article, so Jeff could listen to what you have to say. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:22, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with your changing of Kava to Oceania, and I don't mean to quibble, but if Kava is still consumed by Melanesians in Vanuatu, could it really be considered a traditional Polynesian beverage? Not all of Polynesia had it, nor all of Melanesia. Again, I agree with the Oceania designation as most accurate historically and descriptively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffmcneill (talk • contribs) 05:36, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: Kauai photos
Hi, yes, I got your messages. It took me a while to figure out how to reply to you. Never had anyone ask me a question before in Wiki. It's fine that you moved my images to the Commons. I will look into posting images there in the future. Polihale (talk) 18:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC) Yes, still on Kauai. I have a large stockpile of photos, many aerial photos, also of other islands. Anything in particular you're looking for? Here's a small sample... http://kauaiblue.com/kb/610200/2

Category Food Related Lists
What type of categorization are you referring to? As for arranging the list, there are still inconsistencies between the list articles that have been creating as none of us have come up with a template yet. The one consistancy is the regional lists that are in some of the other lists that have been created. I however do not know if any of the dishes listed are regional, or are they are dishes found throughout the entire state?--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 16:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm kinda taking a break over the next few days, going on vacation to Atlantic City, NJ. I'll consider what I think might be appropriate for a cuisine "dish" list article.  To be appropriate I will have to submit it to the Food and Drink Project to get a consensus.  I agree with many of the books that people use for historical research, they are badly researched, they are not confined to Hawaiian cuisine.  The good thing that has been happening over the last 5 years is that there are people studying food history and gastronomy now which will add to food research, not just in the aspect of cooking.  I should be back from Atlantic City around the 5th, I will get back to you then.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 06:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

WinterStar Symposium Deletion
A nomination for deletion has opened on WinterStar Symposium. Since you commented on a previous one, I thought I would inform you about it. Rosencomet (talk) 22:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

"Problem" at my talkpage
Replied there. Cheers. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Kardashev Scale
Hi, recently the Kardashev scale entry has gone through some major reverts, I'd like to talk about the reinstatement of the material. I've looked around and have seen that you've made some major contributions to the article and are interested in it's progress. I feel we need to talk about the reverts and reinstatement and talk about whether either are justified. Talk:Kardashev scale If you could help or add your two cents I'd really appreciate it. Thanks--Sparkygravity (talk) 01:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

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Your comment
I am completely blown away by your assumption of bad faith.

You wrote:


 * "The unblock is relevant because SV has been engaged in a previous dispute with SandyGeorgia over the FAR process, and the unblock allowed Zeraeph to continue attacking SandyGeorgia."

You really think I would unblock someone so that they could continue to attack another editor? Please check through my block log and tell me whether you've seen anything remotely like that from me in the three years I've been an admin.

It's starting to look as though the only reason you got involved in this was to use it as a stick to beat me with. No one who knows me would consider for a minute that I'd do that. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 05:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Talk about an assumption of bad faith... SlimVirgin you're the only one projecting motives onto others. -- M P er el  07:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Past incivility
Hi. I should be interested in receiving a diff of this instance. Thanks. LessHeard vanU (talk) 10:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Human rights and the United States
Your edits for Human rights and the United States have bypassed the Talk page and were made without consensus. I suggest that you participate in TALK before editing. Raggz (talk) 00:22, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Please engage in the ongoing talk discussions. You have reverted without discussion, and are only now attempting to correct your error (without apology). I accept your new committment to Talk rather than reverting. I accept your new decision to work for consensus rather than arbitrary editing. Please review the sections, and participate.


 * I challenge you to offer ONE reliable source that establishes that one human rights violation has occured in the past decade. I can, and will, if you do not. Oddly our article focuses upon speculative allegations rather than proven violations. Why is this? Will you agree that we should shift our focus to those actually supported by reliable sources that establish actual violations. Raggz (talk) 01:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Your comments are false and absurd. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 01:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * From the talk page: Please present a particular aspect of the lead section that you find troublesome and I will help you improve it. Removing NPOV is not acceptable. —Viriditas | Talk 23:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viriditas (talk • contribs)


 * I suggest using the TALK page for the article. There are a number of ongoing discussions that you have not contributed to yet, please consider joining these? There is a section there for the NPOV tag. You and I are united in opposing the removal of this tag.


 * Please address my challenge (above) there. "Your comments are false and absurd" is not all that useful because merely stating your opinion doesn't help advance the article at all. I challenge you to offer ONE reliable source that establishes that one human rights violation has occured in the past decade. If there are no reliable sources for actual human rights violations, then do you agree that the Article should state this? Raggz (talk) 01:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Your misunderstanding of basic Wikipedia policies and guidelines has been addressed on your talk page. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 01:33, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Violation of Consensus
Working for consensus is important, and you presently seem to not be working in good faith for Consensus at Rationale for the Iraq war. Please read Consensus.

Tacit consensus may be attained when any debate settles down. You employ a strategy of stating something like: There is no consensus. ''User:Ryder Spearmann is a single-purpose account created on January 5th. &mdash;''Viriditas | Talk 00:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

This type of statement does not mean that there is no consensus, it is a meaningless obstruction that does not preclude consensus. If you really want an effective obstructive strategy you need to offer some argument on the question, no matter how silly and insincere. That will work for a while, what you do now does not. You are obliged by Consensus to work for consensus. This doesn't mean that you need agree to anything, but it does mean that IF you participate you need to say more than there is no consensus. You are then obliged by policy to explain why - or to withdraw. Refusal to do either is (in my opinion) a violation of Consensus Raggz (talk) 08:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You are again invited to engage in the Consensus process. Raggz (talk) 10:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikilawyering
Please review and familiarize yourself with the concept of "wikilawyering". It is unacceptable behavior. —Viriditas | Talk 09:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I happened to read it last night. I do not see that I am engaged in Wikilawyering, but I'm open to your claim? Could you be more specific? Raggz (talk) 09:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The section you left on my talk page "Violation of Consensus", is an example of Wikilawyering. Your continued attempts to avoid discussing the topic while continuously changing the subject and misinterpreting policies and guidelines is noted.  Please stop, as your behavior is disruptive. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 09:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I read some of the key policies you refer to, there is a LOT in there.


 * Might you share an example of what you mean by: "Your continued attempts to avoid discussing the topic while continuously changing the subject and misinterpreting policies and guidelines is noted"? I really have no idea of what you actually mean. Raggz (talk) 09:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Yo-Yo Ma edit
Hello, you made this edit which eliminated the assertion that "Ma Yo-yo" is the musician's actual name in the Chinese language, replacing with the standard template which claims that Yo-Yo Ma is a "Chinese name", even though native speakers would not refer to him as such. In case this is an error caused by the process of reverting a previous edit, could you please modify this information, or did you have a reason for this change? Shawnc (talk) 01:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. I have made the necessary edit. Regards. Shawnc (talk) 01:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Input at AN/I
Hi, I'm just letting you know that some input has been requested at the administrators noticeboard regarding your complaint about User:Raggz. Silly rabbit (talk) 04:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

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AGF
Hello again. I'm just writing to let you know that you should please remember to assume good faith over at Rationale for the Iraq War regarding the potential sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry of User:Raggz and User:Ryder Spearmann. While I agree that they seem to show the same modus operandi and POV as each other &mdash; and also allegedly with a recent cabal of editors who were involved in some rather dodgy behavior a short while ago &mdash; leveling accusations of sockpuppetry on the article talk page is counterproductive, and is likely to taint your attempts to pursue administrative action against User:Raggz. Nevertheless, I am quite sympathetic to you, since I know first-hand how frustrating it is to get in these discussions which just go round and round without ever reaching any satisfactory conclusion. If the matter continues further, may I suggest moving the accusatory discussion out of the article talk space: it is of somewhat marginal importance to the discussion of progress on the article itself. Best regards, Silly rabbit (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * (Re: dodgy behavior) To be honest, I wasn't keeping track of all the goings on at the time.  But I do remember quite a few threads at AN/I last spring regarding MONGO and cohorts.  See, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive204#MONGO User:Stone put to sky was closer to the issue at the time than I was, so he/she would be a better one to comment.  Silly rabbit (talk) 21:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Yo
I suggest you peruse WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. You are following neither where Raggz is concerned and this needs to change. Jtrainor (talk) 05:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment from Stone put to sky
Hello, Viriditas -- i notice you're from Hawaii. I have a close friend who is also from there and very much an admirer of the native culture. He's currently living in the south of Taiwan, living with and learning the language of the Ami. He's an informal scholar who never graduated University but, through his travels, has become familiar with enough Indonesian, Ami, Japanese and Chinese to be able to hold up his end of a" hearth-side chat", so to speak. He's also teaching himself how to build Ukeleles, which -- unlike his linguistic interests -- i'm able to help him with, as a result of the luthier work i did as a youth. Ciao -- Stone put to sky (talk) 04:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment on Category Redirect template
Because you are a member of WikiProject Categories, your input is invited on some proposed changes to the design of the Category redirect template. Please feel free to view the proposals and comment on the template talk page. --Russ (talk) 21:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Waterboarding
I have just gone through the process of setting up the categories and assessments pages for WikiProject Human rights. Unfortunately there are not yet any criteria for importance in the WikiProject. I'm sure I've got some of the assessments wrong - I was hoping it would lead to some discussion rather than everything just staying unassessed. I put articles about global human rights law, human rights concepts etc as top; similar national articles, and significant organisations, people etc as high; smaller organisations and others as mid. I put articles on individual forms of torture, individual human rights abuses etc as low, because they on their own have a relatively small impact on human rights discourse. Waterboarding is of course more topical - so it should probably be more important. I will put it as unassessed until there is a consensus. If you have views on this - it might be very helpful to start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Human rights? Tkn20 (talk) 11:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Your suggestion re template and mediation
This seems to me to be an excellent suggestion. Is it being implemented? Where? Thanks. --Coppertwig (talk) 14:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Reconsideration
Viriditas, I don't know if you have been going through the massive about of info/links I listed over the sock puppet issue, but if you have, I thought I would let you off the hook. (I can't stand to go through the mind-boggling mess myself.)

After the results of the Zeraeph Arbitration, I am being to get a better handle on what to do when I am harassed again. And also, having gone two Arbitrations in which I was one of the named parties (and in Starwood Arbitration the major party) only to have the arbitrators disregard negative evidence pertaining to me in both cases, I see that I just have to become more sophisticated at defending myself rather than worrying about the past.

Thank you so much for your offer though. And I do hope you and I can interact productively in the future. Sincerely,  Mattisse  14:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Leads of articles


This is somewhat of a moot point, but my lead was MUCH better than the existing one.

One of THE most important parts of Wikipedia is the encyclopedic style. The style that was used prior to me coming did not sound encyclopedia-like at all. It gave me the feeling of some manual or guide. Read WP:NOT - And it makes it clear that Wikipedia is not a manual.

AFAIK the sentence that we have now is good. :) WhisperToMe (talk) 10:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the stub feedback
Thanks for the rapid response - I'm used to the Mediawiki install at work, where I can pretty well do what I please, and I'm learning all kinds of Wikipedia procedural details. I responded to your comments...I think you've got a much better idea for how to organize all of the stub-class articles. Oh goody, now I get to learn how to clean up the mess I made. :-) Davidlwilliamson (talk) 08:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Rationale for the Iraq war
In Rationale for the Iraq war you deleted the following text: "The government of Iraq was alleged to have committed innumerable serious human rights abuses. Amnesty International made serious allegations in 1991 that Iraq was children were the victims of a policy of political repression that denied their human rights, and that they were were often executed or held as government hostages. 

Why did you delete well supported and relevant text? Raggz (talk) 11:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Silky Sullivan
Generally I'd like to avoid stepping on the TB racing folks' toes. And WPEQ is just getting off the ground, we're still trying to tag articles. And our next big task after that one is to sort out the Horse categories, which are an absolute mess. So I'm afraid we wouldn't be very fast on clean up. Sorry! Ealdgyth | Talk 00:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If the horse is in one of the TB racehorse cats, go ahead and remove the WPEQ tag. If for some reason EQ has to step in and take over the TB project (say if TB project went inactive) we could find the article that way. Our biggest problem at EQ right now is that we have no idea where all the horse articles might be lurking. Some are out there that aren't in cats or at least not in logical cats. If you find lurking horse cats or orphan horse articles, feel free to drop a note on the EQ project page or on mine, and we'll try to see that the stray gets home!Ealdgyth | Talk 01:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii
I'm in Florida competing in a culinary competition at the moment. I should be back to New York (home) on Monday, I will try to catch up with you then, I've been very busy lately.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 03:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive
Yes, it had to be done, if only for the reason of keeping discussions focused. I didn't mean to come off as irritated, but it just happened at a rather awkward time. Silly rabbit (talk) 11:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No, I don't need diffs. At some point or another, I may have asked Raggz for some diffs to support some allegation or another, but I don't need any of my own.  Thanks for the offer, though.  Cheers, Silly rabbit (talk) 11:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The archiving happened just at a time when the mediation cabal was researching the case. The mediator asked me to bring her/him up to speed on things, and I couldn't point to the right sections anymore because so much of it had been absorbed into the archives.  It really was just bad timing is all.  Silly rabbit (talk) 11:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the Reginald Wilson note. Actually, I had seen the article already, but I immediately disregarded it. Your note made me take a closer look. Silly rabbit (talk) 12:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Micronation template
Hello. Yes I noticed that too - and now I know why. I added a border around the "full name" - that is mprobably what has done this, but unfortunately I can't think of a way to solve this - I haven't really edited many templates. I'll ask some of the editors who are template coders. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate 14:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not have proper information for some of the fields, what should be placed in those fields? Onecanadasquarebishopsgate  16:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Principality of Sealand is fixed, but Atlantium isn't. Onecanadasquarebishopsgate  16:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A template coder has helped fixed the problem - thanks for notifying us about it and helping us with it. - Onecanadasquarebishopsgate  16:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: proposal on AN/Pump
Hey there Viriditas, I don't want to clog up the AN with this little section, feel free to move this if you feel that it belongs there. One of your statements, specifically, "Multilpe AN/I reports followed by an RfC, then formal mediation, and finally, an arbitration case lasting a month involving only a select group of people discussing a very specific set of circumstances. Now compare that with a term limit that comes due once a year for a period of seven days giving the entire community a chance to comment", fails to address something that I would like to add. Let's say I'm a new admin. (I am). Let's say that I royally screw up something, with or without malice (I haven't - or at least not brought to my attention). With a term limit in place, I could easily say "Bugger off, bring it up at my reconfirmation a year from now" and then continue on my merry way. Certainly, if I've screwed up that badly, I would probably have pitchforks and torches at my door, and rightfully. Meaning, the "old way" of doing things can't go away (the part you listed as AN/I, RfC, mediation, arbitration). So if the "old way" isn't going away, how is adding the "new way" (term limits) not adding a new layer of bureaucracy? With a term limit that replaces the current bureaucracy, I can do what I want while people foam at the mouth to get rid of me - waiting for my anniversary RfA. Am I missing something here? Keeper  |   76  18:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Charles Reed Bishop
Hi, I got your note re: Bishop. Since the article is only one paragraph long, and all of the information is in the External Link I provided (which is extremely detailed), I declined to source the info inline for now. I basically expanded the article for the benefit of anyone tooling around the internet curious as to who he was; what was there previously had no information to speak of, not even his birth date.

A 30-minute documentary on Bishop just aired on TV here in Hawaii. As I understand it, you can also, for a limited time, obtain a free DVD of the documentary from First Hawaiian Bank, possibly at any branch. Softlavender (talk)

EDIT: Speaking of which, how would one source a documentary film? Softlavender (talk) 03:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. Since my CMS was lost when I moved to Hawaii, thanks for providing the online style link for video referencing. :) Question: If perchance I wanted to develop a long article, on whatever subject, and wanted to write it piecemeal while I wrote and developed and researched it, where or how can I do that outside of the encyclopedia proper but on this site (so that I can use the Wikicodes and links that would require translating/redoing if I did it in a Word document)? I can't figure out how to make a separate page on my own account or Talk page, or alternatively how to make a "hidden" page on this site. Any suggestions? Softlavender (talk) 07:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Manson and Counterculture
Thanks for your help on my reference desk question. Yes, I did notice the Bugliosi footnote; I guess I'm just not sure how reliable a source he is regarding the counterculture, since he was pretty clearly a (relative) outsider to the movement. But thank you for your help, and for that link to the John Lennon interview. You've been extremely helpful. --Brasswatchman (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Re: my talk page - yes, that would be great! Again, if you can just point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. Thank you! --Brasswatchman (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Jeff Gannon
Re: your edit summary

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, but in this case, we're arguing over whether a category should be there or not. In this case, it should be incumbent upon those who wish to add the category to provide a justification for its inclusion, not the other way around. If I was trying to add Category:Journalists, I'd have to prove it. I suggest the same should be required to add Category:Impostors.  Horologium  (talk) 01:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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Britney Spears
Hello. I delete material from that article according to WP:NOT, particular the 5th point: And the policy of WP:NPOV, particularly the 3rd paragraph, indicates that we should not put too much emphasis on the latest Britney news that lack encyclopedic merit. Thank you. Oidia (talk) 06:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone or something that has been in the news for a brief period is not necessarily a suitable subject for an article in their own right. While Wikipedia strives to be comprehensive, the policies on biographies of living persons and neutral point of view should lead us to contextualize events appropriately, which may preclude a biography about someone who is not an encyclopedic subject, despite a brief appearance in the news.[5] Routine news coverage and matters lacking encyclopedic substance, such as announcements, sports, gossip, and tabloid journalism, are not sufficient basis for an article.
 * Yep, let's discuss it on the actual talk page. Oidia (talk) 06:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
He he, I was beginning to think that no one noticed my absence, but you apparently did. Happy Lunar New Year to you. --BorgQueen (talk) 07:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

just sayin ...
-- M P er el 05:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

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Whoa!
So I've been down and out for most of the past couple of weeks due to a huge project at work combined with some personal obligations, but I just took a look at the history of Hawaiian sovereignty movement and scanned through User talk:Yosemitesam25 and, well, "whoa" is the only word that comes to mind. In other words, I just wanted to stop by and let you know I support you 100% and will jump in once I've done the required reading. -- jonny - m t  07:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Although just so you know, I don't think WP:RFCU likes fishing expeditions, so we might want to leave that off the table for the time being :) I would, however, suggest a request for full protection at WP:RFPP if it continues to escalate. -- jonny - m  t  07:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thought you might like to know that the page has now been fully protected, so hopefully we'll have a bit of a breather and a chance to hash out some sort of conclusion on this. Thanks! -- jonny - m  t  05:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Viriditas, I just noticed all this hoo-ha today as well, and I echo jonny-mt's comments. I'll keep an eye out for inappropriate edits as well, but feel free to give me a shout if needs be. This article is admittedly a mess, but YS (or whomever s/he is -- saw some of the discussion thread on that as well as to their identity) is not helping ameliorate that situation. Cheers, Arjuna (talk) 02:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Btw, any progress on the Niihau article front? Arjuna (talk) 02:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Aloha Viriditas, as you might have noticed Yosemitesam25 and I have had a disagreement on the Overthrow article (discussion on my talk page, which I have pasted to the article talk page for the record). Just asking if you could help keep an eye on it and keep everyone (including me) honest. Btw, s/he went over 3RR, which I reported. Mahalo. Arjuna (talk) 21:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome template
Hi, I saw you welcomed User talk:KAVEBEAR, and that was a really nice welcome. What template did you use? By the way, thanks for your contributions to Hawaii related articles. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at Chantilly cake and Kalapana. Aloha! — Cuyler  91093  -  Соитяівцтіоиѕ  09:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Kalapana
Hey, thanks for that! Are you a local, too? — Cuyler  91093  -  Соитяівцтіоиѕ  08:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? I need to see what's wrong with the code. — Cuyler  91093  -  Соитяівцтіоиѕ  08:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Overthrow article (again)
Hi Viriditas, as you might have noticed, Yosemitesam is up to usual tricks. You may wish to refer to the back and forth discussion on the | article's talk page. The potential COI issue was also discussed there and on YS's talk page. I don't know how you feel about these issues, but your input would be much appreciated. He just reverted again, and frankly, I feel a re-revert is entirely justified, but I think given where things are (YS seems unamenable to logic if you ask me) it would have more weight if the reverts had the consensus of other editors, so I'm loathe to do it myself (I'm already at 2RR today). Cheers and mahalo, Arjuna (talk) 02:00, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for weighing in on this. YS removed the state flag? Assuming it was not accidental, that is disturbing indeed. As I have stated elsewhere on numerous occasions, I do not have a problem with an editor trying to fairly represent a certain perspective with which I do not agree, but this and other recent edits do not suggest this is the case. If this pattern of behavior continues, it's possible that what we are looking at is starting to fit a definition of vandalism. I do not make such charges lightly, and I'm not there yet, but this raises a real red flag. Arjuna (talk) 08:39, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Yosemitesam25
One more thought. Assuming JK and YS are one and the same, there is a sockpuppet issue. YS has indicated a lack of familiarity with Wikipedia editing on his userpage and in his edits. Clearly JK was fluent in coding, and so if they are the same person then this is classic disingenous sockpuppeting. Arjuna (talk) 09:42, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting on the sockpuppet issue. I've got to sign off for the night, but will be back and available at various points tomorrow to assist in the COI submission. Cheers, Arjuna (talk) 10:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films February 2008 Newsletter
The February 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:01, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

On being a chump
It would explain why so many people are complacent about "mere" double-voting. An admin seems to have been recently desysopped for non-proxy socking with three accounts. That's the most blatant and unskilled kind of sockpuppeteering; surely there must be many others who are a bit more discrete. Durova is worried about what would happen if 10-15% of established users maintain socks. I suspect that's already the reality on the ground. Cool Hand Luke 03:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

burrito
There are several Mexican joints around here that can make a pretty boss burrito. I just think this entire dialog about burritos and pictures of burritos is funny. The next time I order a burrito or am in the general vicinity of someone eating a burrito made in Jersey, I will take a snap shot. lol --Endless Dan 13:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Woah... You are true connoisseur of burritos. When I get a pic, I will post it here first. --Endless Dan 13:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ...a documented lifestyle, the lifestyle of burritophilia, Wikipedians Interested in Burrito Studies... This is a fascinating subculture I was completely unfamiliar with. I almost feel guilty for posting such a meager burrito pic as a representation of burritos made in Jersey. Seeing as how Jersey cuisine is top notch. Question: Do you prefer your burrito grilled or au naturel?--Endless Dan 13:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeeeah, well food made on the East coast is second to none... but fortunately you live in friggin Hawaii!--Endless Dan 15:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Around and around it goes
Hello again. Milo is up to his old essay-writing-to-confound-the-discussion trick again. Would you mind attempting to inject some sanity into the latest discussion please? --Gene_poole (talk) 21:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback and thoughtful discussion comments, as always. Bruno Sanfilippo is almost constantly on rotation on my music system these days. Listen to "Piano Textures" if you haven't already done so - it's brilliant. It's on one of the shows I did towards the end of last year. :-) --Gene_poole (talk) 02:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right - he is an obvious troll. Every response he posts to my comments provides us with further evidence to use to have the account blocked. If you think it better that I cease running rings around him, I'll do so. --Gene_poole (talk) 06:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been taking a look into the "spacemusic is different from ambient" original research theory that a certain individual has been trying to have written into WP for the past few years, and I cannot see anyone listed in the spacemusic article who is not also listed at List of ambient artists. This does rather tend to support the view that "ambient" and "spacemusic" are largely (albeit not entirely) synonymous - or at the very least that there's at least a very significant overlap between the two. What are your thoughts on how we should best ensure that the relevant articles properly reflect this - without getting bogged down in the usual endless petty arguments intended to confound consensus? --Gene_poole (talk) 01:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I've listed a notice on the wikiproject music noticeboard, and am also formulating an RFC on the subject - so hopefuly we'll start to see some outside opinions in the not too distant future. The cleanup of these articles is long overdue, and now is as good a time as any to get the job done. --Gene_poole (talk) 00:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:British Pakistanis
I have nominated british pakistanis for renaming to pakistani britons. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 15:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Made of Bricks
There was nothing wrong with the edit and nothing to suggest it was done in bad faith. It removed a number of non professional reviews from the article in accordance with guidelines at WP:ALBUM which you wrongly reverted as vandalism. Please remember to assume good faith with all editors and only reverts edits as vandalism that are obviously done to harm the article. -- neon white user page talk 16:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I know what you wrote thank you very much. you made a poor revert, that removed good faith edits by User:172.203.139.152. This was poor editing. In future make sure you only remove the bad faith edits. Removing good edits is just as damaging to the article as the vandalism you were trying to remove. Also brush up on your civility, you condescending attitude towards other editors is not helpful. -- neon white user page talk 01:10, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It is utterly irrelevant how many edits the user had, the edits were good. I have edited wikipedia for a considerable amount of time and contributed alot to the encyclopedia. You made a mistake with an edit and i reverted it, in responce you have been grossly uncivil and launching condescending personal attacks about my editing skills. I suggest you cease this pettiness, admit that you made a mistake in reverting good edits rather than simply removing the small piece of vandalism and issue an apology on my talk page for your rudeness and remember in future that interacting with other editors in a civil manner is more productive. -- neon white user page talk 15:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I know how to remove vandalism, especially when it is several edits back. There is no need to revert all the edits since the vandalism occured. As i said, considering these contained good edits, this just eqaully damages the page and does not improve it which should be the aim of every edit. I admit i did not see the vandalism at first as it was so small compared to the large edits you reverted in error. Reverting to the last good version is only appropriate when there has been a considerable amount of vandalism that cannot be easily removed. This was not the case here, it was one line only and could easily have been and should have been removed manually. I do not need any help i have been positively involved in wikipedia for long enough. My talk pages shows no evidence to the contrary. I believe it is time for you to apologize for this condescending and incivil attitude that you have adopted from the start. -- neon white user page talk 15:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You have adopted a condescending tone from the start and have not assumed good faith. WP:AGF says When you can reasonably assume that a mistake someone made was a well-intentioned attempt to further the goals of the project, correct it without criticizing. When you disagree with people, remember that they probably believe that they are helping the project. I did not criticise your edit and have never made any suggestions that your edits were not done in good faith you however responded with accusations about me not looking at the edit history and have continually made baseless criticisms of my editing practices. I have never claimed you wrongly reverted vandalism, i said in reverting to the version you did, you also reverted a significant good edit for the sake of removing a single line of vandalism. I also clearly stated in the edit summary the reason for my edits so it should have been clear. I can see no purpose whatever to take this an administrator. This is not a content dispute, there is no edit warring here. I am merely asking for you to assume good faith, appreciate other editors contributions regardless of how many edits they have. I am sorry but i cannot accept that it is good practice to disregard someone's contribution. -- neon white user page talk 15:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I can only conclude that you are having some kind of difficulty understanding the English language. This is a personal attack. Personal attacks are not helpful to the wikipedia community. Please apologize for this and the earlier rudeness. I have already admitted that i did not see the line of vandalism and this was an oversight on my part. I have never doubted that your edits were in good faith and accept that different editors have different editing practices and apologize for any offense caused but i feel you could be a little more civil and careful to reinstate good edits when reverting multiple edits. -- neon white  user page talk 15:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

About the ukulele
You know Hawaii, right? I need some backup here. Apparently, another user believes it is right to spell ukulele "ukelele". Am I wrong in saying that "ukelele" is entirely incorrect? Cuyler 91093  ( Contribs ) 18:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for backing me up. :) Cuyler  91093  ( Contribs ) 04:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, actually it would seem Viriditas supports my position. ukulele *is* the correct spelling in the hawaiian language, as he posted on your talk page. but we're not talking about hawaii, we're talking about english as it is written around the world, where the accepted spelling varies. i did not say "it is right to spell the word ukelele" i mearly said "it is not wrong to spell it that way". please stop thinking in such a closed-minded manner. — Nicholas (reply) @ 06:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Guys, come on. Let's try to work together, ok? &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 06:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * what do you think of this? — Nicholas (reply) @ 17:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian_Trail_and_Mountain_Club
Thank you for your message - I'm not sure whether you're effectively complaining about (a) the deletion itself, (b) the lack of notifaction or (c) both. On (b), no, I didn't, and if you feel that I should have done then my apologies for that. As for the deletion, however, the article didn't assert any notability at all - you, yourself, flagged it with notability concerns on 15 June 2007, and the article was in almost exactly the same state when it was flagged for speedy, so I feel the deletion was merited. The public face of GBT/C 11:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Noted, and I'll bear it in mind in the future. The public face of GBT/C 11:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Moses
I must admit that I am unfamiliar with this material, which is surprising, since I was raised as an orthodox jew, have been involved with entheogenic studies and prominent researchers in the field, and am familiar with the "Jesus was a mushroom" material. I'll have to check into it, though I can't see including it in any article in any way except to mention it as a theory that exists among some scholars. (I seem to recall someone expressing such a theory about ephedra, though, although I always considered the ephedra/soma link to be overblowing ephedra's value as a psychoactive.)

The folks that taught me my religion would cringe at this theory, calling it just another attempt to discredit the miracles of the bible. I, personally, don't see a difference between a revelation had under the influence of a power plant and one had after days of social and/or sensory deprivation, fasting, physical trials, chanting and prayer, fear, or any other practice or condition used to alter one's state of consciousness. I'm not sure there's much point in theorizing that an individual used psychedelics, however, when you can't even prove the individual existed. I don't think you can demonstrate that the bible SAYS Moses did, the way you can cite the cocaine use of the fictional character Sherlock Holmes in the works of Arthur Conan Doyle.

But who am I to say? There's a whole section in the Terence McKenna article about unnamed prehistoric primates using psilocybin, and he bases it primarily on having seen apes eat mushrooms growing out of cowpies.Rosencomet (talk) 17:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXII - March 2008
The March 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot --18:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Wilderness articles
Viriditas, thanks for the note about linking from the parent articles. I've done this for a lot of the wilderness articles I've worked on, but some inevitably fall through the cracks. I'll be sure to double check in the future. Thanks! Axcordion (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Non-deletionism
(From the Talk: List of progressive metal artists)

Since this discussion isn't really appropriate for that talk page, I decided to respond here. I personally approach Wikipedia as a matter of improvement or deletion. If it can't be improved, it should be deleted. To be honest, despite my work on the page, I hadn't really considered the category page (amateurish error, really). I was simply curious how you would approach the issue with respect to precisely what an article would need to be more than just a category article. Is it even feasible to, without changing the nature of the list, make the article worth keeping? --Anon 67.187.38.109 (talk) 03:33, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, but the great part: the logistical nightmare of interpreting a user's wishes. --Anon 67.187.38.109 (talk) 05:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

List of indie pop artists
I noticed you have proposed a merge with Category:Indie pop groups but there is no mention on the talk page. Can you detailing your reasons so it can be discussed? -- neon white user page talk 18:19, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Block.
I've replied to that message. Scarian Call me Pat 02:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yosemite
Hey viriditas, I've been on wiki break, and will continue for at least a few more months. Looking up some stuff on Charlie Maxwell I wanted to reference, I saw the recent edit war going on.

Just wanted to let you know that I am NOT yosemite, and he is NOT Ken Conklin, and he is NOT Grassroot Institute, and I do NOT advocate in any way for his edit warring. If you need anything more than my word on this, I'm more than happy to help verify that this is true. My guess is that, like with all points of view, we have a zealot on our hands. I assure you I have never feared attributing my opinions and edits to my own name.

Mahalo for all your wikiwork, and I'll enjoy being back later this year. If you think it would help for me to leave a message for yosemite asking him to be a bit more polite and reasonable, I'd be more than happy to do so - but please email me, since I don't check wikipedia often for messages anymore. --JereKrischel (talk) 03:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Berkeley in the Sixties (film).jpg
Thank you for uploading Image:Berkeley in the Sixties (film).jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 12:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The People's Park Comment
Firstly, what do you mean by the stones+glass houses comment? Secondly, you point my towards and useful sources you know of for the peoples park (there is a dirth of sources to be found through google, and I'm not exactly sure of what direction to go in for finding more material)? --CalPaterson (talk) 19:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

FYI
Milo 13:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels - 1st Coordinators Election
An election has been proposed and has been set up for this project. Description of the roles etc., can be found at WikiProject Novels/Coordinators. If you wish to stand, enter your candidacy before the end of March and ask your questions of anyone already standing at WikiProject Novels/Coordinators/May 2008. Voting will start on the 1st April and close at the end of April. The intention is for the appointments to last from May - November 2008. For other details check out the pages or ask. KevinalewisBot (talk) 14:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm....
Any thoughts? -- jonny - m t  08:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

In reference to mushroom clouds
Thanks. Oh by the way, the swiss cheese comment on your user page made me spit up my coffee all over my laptop. It was worth it. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 16:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films coordinator elections
The WikiProject Films coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect five coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by March 28! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 09:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:HAWAII Newsletter!
Hi, I am inviting you to participate in the WikiProject Hawaii newsletter. I would appreciate it if you helped! See you around! – The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 06:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply to the Reply of The WikiProject Newsletter
Wow, I'm glad that you are able to help! I think I need all the help I can get, considering this is the first newsletter on Wikipedia I've created! Cheers! – The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 01:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Not sure where to leave this, but...
Happy editing, Sean MD80 talk 21:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure
I don't know anything about Hawaiian Music, so I won't be of any use there, but I would definitely help out with the Hawaiian Wikiproject, seeing as I am already a member. Most of my contributions have been to the NWHI articles, so I could surely be of help to the National Monument's article and Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.

And, I don't know how to donate it to you, but if you need it you can take my reserve sign award. Sean MD80 talk 03:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Hawaii Newsletter
Thank you for your amazing suggestions! I have incorporated some of them into the newsletter (see it at User:The Obento Musubi/Sandbox). I have officially designated you editor of the newsletter, because your ideas have shown that you can spice up the newsletter a lot. Happy editing! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 04:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think I'm going to touch it anymore for now. All feedback is welcome! By the way, I didn't know how to effectively merge SeanMD80's commentary to the first paragraph. :) –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 05:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I'm leaving you so many messages. It's nearly done, and I added an image of a Laysan Duck mother with her little ducklings. Kawaii!! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 06:00, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Will do. Hey, try not to make it too short, because I want it to be as it is now; both columns meet at the same place. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 07:47, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Done! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 07:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it would be very helpful if you could give me more examples. By the way, you can see the current current one at WP:WikiProject Hawaii/Outreach/Newsletter/April 2008. I decided it shall be for April; May is too far in the future, and I know we can get it done by April. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

The Newsletter Again
Hey, feel free to make any changes you want. I'm going to be busy today, so I won't have time to make all of the edits, but please do whatever you feel is necessary. Cheers!

By the way, please remind me to make the awards for the collaborators. Thanks! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 18:01, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

RfA
 The Obento Musubi would like to nominate you to become an administrator. Please visit Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then contact The Obento Musubi to accept or decline the nomination. A page for your nomination at Requests for adminship/ . If you accept the nomination, you must formally state and sign your acceptance and answer the questions on that page. Once you have answered the questions, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.

Hmm...
I guess I must respect your wishes. My, you are very humble! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 00:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * So, who's going to interview Mr. Jonny? You or me? I certainly know you know what you're doing. You know, if you ever did want to become an admin, you could... easily. And, plus, adminship is not a big deal, right? –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * AND... I updated the whole template. The empty space on the first column will be dedicated to the interview. I am going to move the left column to the right column, and vice versa. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Whoa... wait. Featured portal status? We need to try hard for that, but I know we can do it. So, do you like it better now? The big empty text on the right side will be replaced with the interview with Jonny. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I might get to that tomorrow or tonight. It depends. I'm glad you have so many great suggestions! It's under construction, but I think it's coming along great. :) –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:08, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you know, but I have you, Jonny, and Sean all credited as editors, although I think I'm going to move you up to an editor-in-chief. Of course, without your help, this could not have been at all possible. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you like the lines? I think it adds something to the whole thing, but I'm not sure. If not, the only lines I'll keep will be under "Members' Corner" and the second panel thingy. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, puh-leez! You are way too humble. I swear, if I had to guess, I'd guess that you either lived in Hawaii, or are currently living here. OR... you probably have ties to Hawaii. Am I right? –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I refuse to let you be anything less than editor in chief. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you insist, I must follow your wishes. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 20:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

List of English words of Hawaiian origin
Hi, Viriditas, I think that this article should be the focus (or part of a focus) for May's issue. I've been working on it, and I would like your help. I think May can be dedicated to lists of WikiProject Hawaii. You? –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 00:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Laysan
Well, I brought good old Laysan up to B-status recently, and I plan to submit it for GA status after a few tweaks tomorrow. For the record, Laysan is now longer than Oahu. Sean MD80 talk 03:39, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Psiphon.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Psiphon.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:


 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 05:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Computer problems
My computer is broken until I can get it fixed over the weekend, so I won't be available to edit quite as much, but I will still be able to do tstuff. Juts not as much. Sean MD80 talk 12:00, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Mahalo
Well, if that's not beating the buzzer then I don't know what is. Thank you for your kind words--I just hope I'll be able to live up to your expectations :) -- jonny - m t  16:19, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric Hawaii
Native Hawaiian oral histories mostly only provide us with information about the latest periods of Hawaiian pre-history and I am not intending to replace Ancient Hawaii with Prehistoric Hawaii actually I want to keep ancient Hawaii on this wiki because it describes the culture of the Native Hawaiians just before European contact in depth while as the future article Prehistoric Hawaii does not focus on any particular time in Pre contact Hawaii and gives a brief summary of each period - maybe in the future when I am done working on Paleolithic and Prehistoric Hawaii I can do articles on the other periods as well.--Fang 23 (talk) 13:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I changed the sentence to Due to a lack of written records from this time period, nearly all of our knowledge of prehistoric Hawaiian society comes from archeology and Native Hawaiian oral histories to make it more accurate also i might not be able to join WikiProject Hawaii any time soon because I am currently busy in both real life and in improving the article Paleolithic (I’ve improved the article Paleolithic from this to its current state and I still am working on it).--Fang 23 (talk) 17:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC

A little while, no see!
Hello again! Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner; I had no internet connection from the 23rd to now because I was on vacation. How are you? How is the newsletter coming? Is it ready to be sent out to all of the members? –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 01:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii WikiProject Newsletter - Issue I - April 2008
Aloha. The April 2008 issue of the Hawaii WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaii 15:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric Hawaii
I changed the sentence to Due to a lack of written records from this time period, nearly all of our knowledge of prehistoric Hawaiian society comes from archeology and Native Hawaiian oral histories to make it more accurate also i might not be able to join WikiProject Hawaii any time soon because I am currently busy in both real life and in improving the article Paleolithic (I’ve improved the article Paleolithic from this to its current state and I still am working on it).--Fang 23 (talk) 17:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Cuisine of Hawaii
Sorry for the long break from the article - due to my DYK work - but now I am staring at the article again. Are you still interested in it? --BorgQueen (talk) 11:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I wasn't aware of the good chef's idea. Can you tell me a bit more? Actually the dish section has been a real headache to me; I don't know what to do with it. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, now I just refreshed my memory by looking at the old comments on the article's talk page. I think it is a good idea to split. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

re:Hippie
I was pleasantly surprised to see how good the hippie article was otherwise, so kudos on that. I would first suggest following the steps at Dispute resolution. If it's really only between the two of you, use Third opinion. If that fails, I would bring up the content to be removed via Request for Comment made before you attempt to remove it again. Remember, The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material! If at any time he violates either the 3RR or WP:NPA, you can bring it up at the forums talked about in those pages. The way to handle personal attacks is to be more civil than those who attack you. It will get things solved faster, and look much better if you have to bring it to the attention of administrators. Van Tucky 21:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not really how it works, unless you reach the point of filing for Mediation, which somewhat of a last resort. Van Tucky 03:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the important thing to understand that acting like a victim, and saying things like "why is the system made to penalize me?" makes an admin who you might ask for help (fyi: I'm not one, or else I'd just step in) want to up-chuck. They get people like that every day, and it sounds like whining. Stick to the content in question. In a very similar dispute I had not long ago, admin Samir was extremely patient and helpful, facilitating a discussion. You might make a talk message to him about the article. If you make efforts to engage in a polite, consensus-building discussion, and all the other person does is make reverts and personal attacks, then admins will see this if you're persistent. I feel your pain, but you just need to be patient and remember it's still just a Wikipedia article, not the end of the world. Nothing is permanent on a wiki. Van Tucky 04:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind my butting in, I just noticed this discussion at VT's talk page. If there really is a conflict about content, the steps outlined in the dispute resolution process (explained very well by VT above, I won't repeat) really are the best and maybe only way to deal with it. I think you will find that people will be more willing to help if they see that someone is demonstrating a desire to work within the (very loose) confines of a system that has been set up precisely to deal with the kind of situation you describe. I wish you the best! -Pete (talk) 04:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films March 2008 Newsletter
The March 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

'Opaeka'a Falls
After using what material I could fine I wrote as much as I could on 'Opaeka'a Falls. (I'll tweek it some more). However, the DYK rules (last time I looked) were that a stub must be expanded five-fold (they have argued about this) within the five days to be eligible for DYK. This article was 1,134 bytes when I started and is now 3,728 bytes so I would have to get another 3,000 bytes. Don't know it that can be done. I might be able to expand the geology stuff. That article was interesting as I have been to than island and can really image it. Regards, Mattisse  (Talk) 23:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello there, WP:HAWAII
Hi there, I will work on WikiProject Hawaii stuff after the MfD stuff regarding secret pages closes. Please feel free to get started without me, but if you need my help, by all means, please let me know. What's the plan for May? I found someone who's willing to write a few things for us. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 07:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

AWB
Hey I meant to ask, did you ever unload all your AutoWiki plugins to see if that resolved the problem you were having? -- M P er el 05:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

DYK article
I think you should get your article submitted, It has to be a five-fold increase of the article within five days. If you get it submitted you can still improve it, but without worrying about the ticking clock. Regards,  Mattisse  (Talk) 15:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I added an alternative hoos suggestion to your DYK, but I thing yours is better. Once I started construction the hook, I realized the subject was way more complicated than I though!  Mattisse  (Talk) 21:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
I have an idea for June's. How about Hawaiian music? I started a page, Kalapana (not to be confused with the city on the Big Island), and another edited it extensively. I think I will submit it to DYK!! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I will try. I will do the blank template now. –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I haven't, but I'll probably take a look at it tomorrow. I'm very, very busy. Sorry! Goodnight! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 10:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject Hawaii requested photographs
Hi Viriditas. I appologize if I accidently depopulated a category that Wikiproject Hawaii was using to keep track of Hawaii topic related articles needing images. I would be happy to repopulate a categroy for that purpose. Photo requests for articles can be categorized as both topic specific (Wikiproject list tracking) and place specific (the counties of the United States). In fact, if you look at Requested pictures, article talk pages can include many multiple photo request categories, such as Architecture, The Arts, History, People, Places, Science, Society, Technology, and the subcategories listed there. "Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in ..." is used as a place photo matching service for Wikipedians living in a particular U.S. county to let them know that someone would like them to take a photo in that area. Category:Hawaii articles needing images is a great way to keep track Wikiproject Hawaii needs. Again, I appologize for editing Template:WPHawaii. I should not have made changes that impacted Wikiproject Hawaii. Best. GregManninLB (talk) 14:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, sorry for making the changes I did to Wikiproject Hawaii. I had no intent in doing that, I'm not sure what I was thinking at the time but, looking back, that's what I did by editing Wikiproject Hawaii's template. I fixed Template:WPHawaii Sidebar as well. GregManninLB (talk) 14:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Category:Hawaii articles needing images
The Category was tagged by GregManninLB for speedy deletion as housekeeping. As the category was depopulated when he tagged it, I assumed good faith that it was moved to a separate name, so I deleted it. Clearly that was a goof on my part. It doesn't seem like a category that would normally be empty though. In either case I'll be more careful next time. Wizardman 16:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Congrats!
Congrats on the DYK. Now you can take the pigweed out! – Mattisse (Talk) 12:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you know of online resources for Coconut Island? Everything I could find was either already in the article or on the Institute there. – Mattisse (Talk) 13:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Instead I wrote Hawai`i Institute of Marine Biology but I am confused about something. Is it in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands? Some sources say it is, but if it is near Honolulu how could it be? – Mattisse (Talk) 20:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello!
Hello! --Borris the Big Brown Buffalo (talk) 14:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Atyoida bisulcata
I looked at the plant references Do you think I could do an article on this subject? I don't know much about plants. Maybe I will look at the references you supplied for Coconut Island. I got my DYK. Does Hawaii keep a DYK count? (Karnataka, India does with a whole progression from DYK's to GA, To FA) – Mattisse  (Talk) 19:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Hawai`i Institute of Marine Biology
They had an argument on the DYK page if the Hawai`i Institute of Marine Biology was the only one in the world to be built on a coral. Some thought "in the world" was redundant! Well, maybe. I am going to finish Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary and then move on to Coconut Island. I should go over to your Hawaiian Portal. (I'm not Hawaiian). Do you have Hawaiian news there, etc.? – Mattisse (Talk) 00:34, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

your comment
On my talk page you refer to Mattisse as "Her" ... do you know for a fact that Mattisse is female or are you assuming? If so I have been mis attributing her (in this case) to being male ie "he" etc, making me wonder if she has been seeing that as an insult? Red thoreau (talk Redthoreau 01:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm ... do you think you could find out? I would ask him/her ... but I am sure he/she would interpret my question in the wrong way considering our "past history". In an odd/hard to explain/maybe sexist? way ... I guess it does make me feel bad if she/he were possibly a female in the way that some of our arguments have played out.       Red thoreau  (talk Redthoreau 02:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary
I nominated it for DYK for April 6. If you can fix it up, please do, as I am having trouble concentrating. – Mattisse (Talk) 00:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Categories
Hi I have read Editor2020 talk page. You made good points. Editor2020 has remove categories from New Thought, Unity and Religious Science. He has since convinced another user Harfn about the use of Categories. Can you take a look.JGG59 (talk) 14:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

About whales
Thank's for fixing the hook. Your's is much better. My brain got fried and still feels fried to day. Hope I gain regain my ability to edit. Maybe thats to you I will. Regards, – Mattisse  (Talk) 14:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Whales
Thanks for fixing up the article (although some of the wording moved it back to copyvio, probably not a big deak). I guess you can tell my heart is not in it any more, as I am too stressed out. Maybe the desire to edit again will return, perhaps. – Mattisse (Talk) 22:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIII - April 2008
The April 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 23:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

399 to go
We are almost done, Category:Articles lacking sources from June 2006 is down to less the 400 articles to find references for. I would like to thank you for listing yourself as a volunteer at Unreferenced articles and would like to take this opportunity to invite you to visit the project again and work on getting the last few articles referenced. We started with 5,572 and we are in the home stretch, please come and try to do a couple a day and we can finish it up in no time. Jeepday (talk) 02:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric Hawaii
Hi Viriditas, been on a Wikibreak for a bit but saw your message on my talk page. Is your question about the Prehistoric Hawaii article still active or has it been resolved satisfactorily? I've only spent about 2 minutes looking (and thinking) about this, but my first reaction is that I don't have an issue with it. I think a separate treatment of what is known from archaeological evidence, versus another that perhaps combines that with the oral tradition side of the story seems acceptable -- i.e. they complement rather than clash if you ask me, esp. since sometimes it's hard to separate out what statement comes from what tradition, and they both have claims to authority. Sometimes you feel like a Coke, sometimes a Pepsi... My two cents. Cheers, Arjuna (talk) 10:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Response at my talk
Response at my talk Jeepday (talk) 13:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Coconut Isltnd
I though you sent me a link to sources on Coconut Island for an article but I can't seem to find that link. Was it on your talk page, maybe? – Mattisse (Talk) 19:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Flicters
Maybe you could explain FlickerS to me. Can a person just join and use the pictures, or do you have to give photos in return? – Mattisse (Talk) 23:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Mahalo
Viriditas, thanks again for your help with the archiving on my talk page. Much appreciated! Aloha, Arjuna (talk) 02:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It's that time of the month again
We should start the next edition now. I'm a bit free-er now, so I can help you and everybody else with the newsletter. What should I start with? – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 02:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I started a sketch template for next month's newsletter, and you can see it at WP:WikiProject Hawaii/Outreach/Newsletter/May 2008. Message me back about what's happening, and I'd love feedback! – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your edits to Durian... I found it disturbing that many weblinks go dead quickly. Another reason why I prefer offline sources. --BorgQueen (talk) 01:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Joined WP Hawaii
Mahalo for asking me to join. Not sure how much extra I can do but at least most of what I have been doing will fall under this. Mahalo too for all your good work here. Makana Chai (talk) 19:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

List of islets of Caroline Island
You suggested that I nominate List of islets of Caroline Island as a featured list candidate; after some improvements, I've done so. Thanks! -- Sethant (talk) 20:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
My old friend, Viri, thank you very much for continuing to keep an eye on my userspace and for reverting the vandalism so quickly. You've been watching my back for nearly three years now and I do appreciate it very much. I hope that you and your family are well, Viri. All the best my friend. Cheers, Sarah 17:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

My Hawaiian Watch List
Thanks for asking! Here's what I'm watching right now: Ali'i, Cuisine of Hawaii, Duke Kahanamoku, Haole, Hawaiian language, Heiau, Ho'oponopono, Hula, Huna, Kahuna, Lomilomi massage, Makana Risser Chai, Mary Kawena Pukui, Massage (for lomilomi only - the whole thing is too much), Max Freedom Long, Morrnah Simeona, Rima Morrell, Types of massage (lomilomi)

Let me know if there is anything else I should be watching or anything else I should know. Mahalo Makana Chai (talk) 05:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all the info. Auwe! Plenty work! I'm adding Hawaiian religion and virtually all the Hawaiiana sub-categories to my watchlist. As for cuisine, I just know a little about pre-contact, and that section is pretty good now. I cant help with current - I don't recognize half the food at any pa'ina. Makana Chai (talk) 02:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I started in on a couple of things. I looked at the newsletter and had a thought. If you're including tapu, then how about tattoo? Also, not sure how to change what is listed in a category. Liberty House and Shirokiya should not be in Hawaiiana, IMHO. Makana Chai (talk) 06:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

personal comments removed
I removed a comment that you made about other editor. Your comment borders on a personal attack, which is not allowed by policy WP:NPA and guideline TALK. Please try to keep your cool and discuss the other editor's edits and not their personalities --Enric Naval (talk) 09:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Notability
Notability is a policy not a guideline. Please ensure all articles without notability have the tag. If notability cannot be established, the article is more likely to be considered for redirection, merge or ultimately deletion, per Wikipedia:Guide to deletion. SunCreator (talk) 23:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Notability is a guideline not a policy. Try actually reading it: WP:N. Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You are correct, as was checking WP:NOT rather then WP:N by mistake! SunCreator (talk) 23:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Klaatu baraada nikto
My issue was whether the phrase was notable enough to have its own article. Merely being mentioned lots of times in the media doesn't make a phrase notable enough for its own article. I still wonder whether or not it should have its own article, but seeing that you're making an effort to improve the article and show that the phrase is notable and encyclopedic, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and not pursue the matter for now. However, I'm hoping that this article will become soemthing more than just a list of all the times the phrase has ever been uttered because, as the article stands right now, it's worthy of being nominated for deletion. Thanks for understanding! --Hnsampat (talk) 01:37, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I don't like the article or that I want to see it deleted. (FYI, the result of the AfD was "no consensus," not "keep," which does make a difference.) What I am saying is that the article has no real content other than a long list of everytime the phrase has ever been uttered. So, right now, it can be argued that the article is nothing more than an indiscriminate list. However, I think you're on the right track and the article can be improved. So, I'm encouraging you to keep doing what you're doing. :) --Hnsampat (talk) 01:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, I'll go ahead and restore the "unencyclopedic" and "notability" tags (since I dispute whether the phrase is encyclopedic or notable enough to have its own article) and we'll let other editors who have a stronger interest in the article address those concerns. If the article doesn't improve after some time, it may get nominated for deletion. We'll take things slowly. --Hnsampat (talk) 02:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)