User talk:Virtualovertake

John B. Prescott
Best wishes, Pdfpdf (talk) 09:50, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contributions to the John B. Prescott. Despite how what I'm about to say may sound discouraging, they are appreciated.
 * For your information, wikipedia intends to, and tries to be, neutral and expresses facts, not opinions. Further, any such facts are supported by references from reliable sources. Several of your additions do not fulfill those requirements. In particular, a number of the sources you've supplied do not contain anything supporting the statements, and statements of opinion, that you've added.
 * And last, we have copyright issues. The photo you've supplied is very obviously a professional studio portrait, and therefore very obviously subject to the copyright of the professional photographer who took it. For you to say: "This is one of the latest pic we got for John B Prescott taken during one of his visits to University of New South Wales" is laughable. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously - some time soon someone will wake up to the fact that this photo was not taken on one of Prescott's "visits to University of New South Wales", and will delete the photo, and that will be sad. So:
 * if you do own the copyright to this photo, please provide more info which is not such an obvious lie;
 * if you don't, please get permission from the owner to use it on wikipedia.


 * With regards to the photo; The picture was commissioned by John Prescott and taken by Van Der Toorren, a prominent Melbourne Photographer. Their address is 20 The Block Arcade, Melbourne. Is this good to write in reference. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem is that Van Der Toorren owns the copyright, and for the photo to be able to be used on wikipedia, Van Der Toorren must give permission to wikipedia for wikipedia to use it. I'm afraid I'm not a copyright expert, so I can't give you the details, but I expect that it would be unlikely that Van Der Toorren would give away the copyright to a photo. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Is this good to write in reference. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I'm afraid it is not sufficient for solving the copyright issue. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * If you don't do something productive about the copyright issue soon, I'm afraid we're going to have to delete the photo. And as I've said several times, that would be sad. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:46, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

The following message was send by us. Virtualovertake (talk) 15:17, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Please wait for 2 more days, we are trying to get a supporting doc for the photograph. Or we will get a new photograph with another supporting doc.2405:205:411C:5BDD:B1D2:FD81:28B8:C03E (talk) 15:10, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Warning: Disruptive editing
I see you have ignored my advice regarding your copyright breach on the Prescott photo. If you don't do something relevant soon, the photo WILL be deleted. I have told you what you need to do. Please do something relevant soon. If you don't understand what I'm telling you, or the significance of what I'm telling you, please don't hesitate to ask - I'm more than happy to explain and help. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Next we come to your disruptive edits. I have gone to some considerable effort to politely point out to you that you are making unsupported claims. You have restored these unsupported claims, and not supplied any justification for doing so, nor supplied any supporting references. Were you an experienced editor this would be regarded as vandalism, and you would be blocked from editing wikipedia for vandalism.

However, I see you are new to wikipedia, so I see that I need to take off my "grumpy old man" hat and try to advise and help you. This will involve me in more effort than is required to simply block you, so I would like to see some sort of response from you that you are willing to learn how what you are doing is contrary to wikipedia practice and guidelines before I go to that effort. Please note that I'm happy to go to this effort, but only if I have some confidence that you are willing to learn how wikipedia works. And again I apologise for being such a grumpy old man. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

By-the-way: I have a short fuse. If you continue with disruptive editing without seeking advice, help and/or guidance, you WILL be prevented from further editing. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:15, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your prompt response. It is appreciated.
 * I have a few other things to deal with just at the moment, and will get back to you "soon". As I said, I'm happy to help - please relax, I'll get back to you soon. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:51, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

(Hopefully useful to you) Comments on your recent edits

 * Changed "John Barry Prescott" to "John B Prescot". Why? The man's name is John Barry Prescott, not John B Prescot


 * Bolded "AC". Why? That's not his name.
 * AC is a post-nominal – ie initials inserted after a person’s name when they have won particular awards, including an order of Australia, as John has. A reference for him winning an OA can be found at http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/4367817, and a reference for the fact that AC is inserted after your name in this instance can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post-nominal_letters_(Australia) Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a post-nominal. No, it's not his name. It is inserted after his name; it is not part of his name. (And yes, there's no doubt he's a Companion of the Order of Australia.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Removed link from "AC". Why?
 * This was to clarify the point made above, that AC is inserted after his name because that is the convention when you have won an order of Australia, as John has. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * How does removing the link clarify anything? Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Removed "FTSE" and link. Why?
 * Similarly, FTSE is the post nominal inserted after a person has been made a fellow of the Australian Academy of technological Sciences and Engineering, as John has. Evidence for him being a fellow can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fellows_of_the_Australian_Academy_of_Technological_Sciences_and_Engineering and a reference for FTSE being the post nominal is available at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post-nominal_letters_(Australia) Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * How does removing "FTSE" and the link clarify anything? (And yes, there's no doubt he's an FTSE.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Added "is a retired Australian business leader". Is he? Says who? i.e. you need to provide a reference from a reliable source that says he is/was a business leader.
 * This is fine – happy to say he is a retired businessman and leave it at that. I will make that change if you think that is fine. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * (No change from what's currently there is necessary.) Conversely, if you can find a reliable reference to support "business leader", that's fine too. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Removed "is a retired Australian businessman and corporate bureaucrat". Why?
 * there should be no problem with this change Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Removed "variously chairman of Queensland Rail and ASC Pty Ltd,[1] executive chairman of Newmont Mining Corporation,[2][3] and managing director and CEO of BHP Billiton from 1991 to 1998.[2]" Why?
 * The reason he is famous is because he has held these roles – this is what he is known for. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * That's exactly my point. This is what he's known for. Why did you remove it?


 * Replaced it with "who joined BHP, the world’s largest mining company[1]". Who cares?
 * The reason he is famous is because he was CEO of a massive global company. Please guide. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * a) Being CEO of BHP is only one of the reasons he's famous. b) BHP is currently the largest mining company. Was it when he was CEO? c) I'm unsure how this contributes to his fame. As I said, he's not famous just because BHP is a big company. d) I'll give this more thought. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * "as executive trainee and rose to become its Managing Director and CEO". Page 7 of quoted source doesn't mention Prescott, much less "as executive trainee and rose to become its Managing Director and CEO".
 * Footnote 37 directs you to page 2 please. Which reads: “1958. At BHP he joined another young trainee in industrial relations, John Prescott, who was eventually to become BHP’s chief executive officer”. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, which is footnote 37? Page 2 of what? (I'm afraid I can't locate the quote.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Also doesn't mention it was "as position which he held for seven years"
 * I will replace with this source (below), which states that he was Managing Director from 1991 – 1998 (Ie 7 years) Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * http://www.ausimm.com.au/content/docs/branch/2017/melbourne_2017_03_speaker_lunch_flyer.pdf
 * That's a really useful reference! Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * "Mr Prescott has wide experience across the public and private sector, particularly in manufacturing and transport. He has been CEO and Chair of publicly listed companies, and has advised Governments on defence, transport and manufacturing and as a Member of Australia's Remuneration Tribunal."
 * Who cares?
 * It is important because this is the reason Prescott is famous – the reason people know who he is, is because of his experience across these areas. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's one of the reasons. OK. Fair comment. (But the "supporting reference" is still an issue ... ) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * No supporting reference(s).
 * Is this reference good for this one. https://business.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/596501/John-Prescott-Lecture-Series-Flyer.pdf Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not ideal, but until we can find a better one, it will do. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Etc. Hope that's helpful. (If not, don't hesitate to ask me questions - happy to try to help.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:48, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Mr Prescott has held roles across the public and private sector, particularly in manufacturing and transport[1]. He has been CEO[2] and Chair of publicly listed companies[3], and has advised Governments on defence, transport and manufacturing[4] and as a Member of Australia's Remuneration Tribunal[5]. If this section is going to cause problems I can cut it.  However, as it is factual and adequately referenced. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm confused by the previous paragraph. What are you planning to do with it? What are you using as supporting references? Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

alternate means of communication
And also did you happen to look at my request for an alternate means of communication, unless it does not conform to wiki policies (however I did not find anything on wiki site which says it is a no) Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * What did you have in mind? (I'm happy to continue to communicate here, if that suits you.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

I mean being a rookie, it will be great if I can take guidance from you one on one.Virtualovertake (talk) 11:31, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought that's what you meant. How would you like that to happen? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:16, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, I couldn't be more indebted. Virtualovertake (talk) 13:32, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not a good idea to publicly put personal stuff on wikipedia. (You don't know who might misuse it, or how they might misuse it.) You can email me via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Pdfpdf Pdfpdf (talk) 14:02, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

A few other tips
More later, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * When you write something on a talk page, please finish it with ~  This will produce "Pdfpdf (talk) 12:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC)", which will tell people a) who said it and b) when they said it.
 * Don't express opinions; only express facts.
 * When you express facts, ALWAYS provide a supporting reference from a reliable, and in particular I draw to your attention, make sure that the reference actually does support the facts you are stating. (Far too many of the references you have supplied provide NOTHING of relevance to the statements you have made).

Initial question. ~
 * A common convention used in conversations on talk pages is for each subsequent contributor to indent their comments (and sign them with ~ ). Example:
 * Reply. ~
 * Further comments. ~
 * More comments. ~
 * Etc. ~

Pdfpdf (talk) 09:32, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Friendly advice
Regarding your recent addition to User:Virtualovertake Again, I'm not an expert on this subject either, but wikipedia is not a place to advertise a business. Although I have seen no evidence that doing so is your intention, your recent addition might be interpreted by some as an attempt to do that. The unintended consequence of this is that it may result in you experiencing negative reactions and negative feedback. On the other hand, it may not result in any reaction from anyone! I just thought you should be fore-warned. Best wishes, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:21, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I have to try and learn how it all works by doing some practical work. Hope I am not thwartedVirtualovertake (talk) 11:29, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I sent you an email Virtualovertake (talk) 03:19, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Errors in article
The current version that is on Wikipedia for Mr. Prescott has errors which we need to remove. - The page says he was Chairman of Newmont – he was not Chairman, he was a Non Executive Director - He was a Fellow of the Australian Institute of the company of Directors, not just a member. - Finally, he was not a “companion of engineers Australia”, he was a Fellow of the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering.
 * Regarding Newmont, I agree. This has now been fixed. The other errors were sourced from reliable sources; he was a member of AICD before he became a Fellow. As for “companion of engineers Australia”, well, that's just wrong! These have been previously fixed. Please review the latest version of the article. Pdfpdf (talk) 04:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Also his name is John B Prescott. Rather than “Barry”. He is known in the industry and referred to by prominent media publication in this way – for example - http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/aurizon-appoints-new-chairman/news-story/9efdc6bb0ff8e7b836c09a609743685f
 * http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/honour_roll/search.cfm?aus_award_id=871180&search_type=simple&showInd=true says his name is "PRESCOTT, John Barry". This is a somewhat more authoritative source than other sources. Generally he is referred to as John Prescott. "He is known in the industry" - Is he? What's your basis for saying that? For example, the ATSE refer to him as John Prescott. "and referred to by prominent media publications" - He's referred to as John B Prescott to distinguish him from the UK politician, the Australian geographer, and others - see John Prescott (disambiguation) Pdfpdf (talk) 04:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

His last name has to be spelled correctly – two ‘ts’ at the end
 * Where is it not spelled with two ‘ts’ at the end? Pdfpdf (talk) 04:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

and ideally he should be referred to as Mr. Prescott (rather than Prescott).
 * Not necessarily. I suggest you read some other wikipedia articles and become familiar with wikipedia style. List of Companions of the Order of Australia, List of Fellows of the Australian Academy of Science and List of Fellows of the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering will give you plenty to randomly choose from. Pdfpdf (talk)

By-the-way
"as executive trainee and rose to become its Managing Director and CEO". Page 7 of quoted source doesn't mention Prescott, much less "as executive trainee and rose to become its Managing Director and CEO".
 * Footnote 37 directs you to page 2 please. Which reads: “1958. At BHP he joined another young trainee in industrial relations, John Prescott, who was eventually to become BHP’s chief executive officer”. Virtualovertake (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, which is footnote 37? Page 2 of what? (I'm afraid I can't locate the quote.) Pdfpdf (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Also ...
If Prescott is/was such an important person to BHP, how come he doesn't rate a mention on the BHP page? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

September 2017
Welcome to Wikipedia. Because we have a policy against usernames which give the impression that the account represents a group, organization or website, I have blocked this account; please take a moment to create a new account with a username that represents only yourself as an individual and which complies with our username policy or request a change of username. You should also read our conflict of interest guideline and be aware that promotional editing is not acceptable regardless of the username you choose. If your username does not represent a group, organization or website, you may appeal this username block by adding the text at the bottom of your talk page. You may simply create a new account, but you may prefer to change your username to one that complies with our username policy, so that your past contributions are associated with your new username. If you would prefer to change your username, you may appeal this username block by adding the text at the bottom of your talk page. Thank you. De728631 (talk) 19:36, 4 September 2017 (UTC)