User talk:Vivovida

Speedy deletion of Working Class Hero:Talk
A tag has been placed on Working Class Hero:Talk, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as at articles for deletion. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. benjicharlton (talk) 01:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

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September 2008
Please do not add unsourced or original content. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, your edits will be considered vandalism and you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. benjicharlton (talk) 02:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Please read the guidelines above - I have no doubt the information you have to give is great but you need to source it..it cannot be a personal opinion.... benjicharlton (talk) 02:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

All you have on that page is personal opinion. Why should my opinion count less than the guy who wrote a extremely poor introduction. Because you have a citation does not make his opinion more valueable than mine if they are the rules they suck and this is not a encylopidia for the masses for everyone to contribute this is an encyclopidia for those that wrote history and therefore and encyclopedia that removes the working class. Perhaps you spent so much time arguing if Lennon was working class because you would be afraid more people would cite him. Your reason for deletion is bullshit!!!!


 * If I can help you add the information you wish to add I will...what exactly is it that you wish to add? - place it here on your user page and we will try to improve it so that we can add it...

benjicharlton (talk) 02:38, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As a side note I just removed the entire section of interpretation as it was overly NON NEUTRAL IN POINT OF VIEW...benjicharlton (talk) 02:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Sign your posts

 * Also could you please sign all your edits on talk pages with ~ (four tildes) this will add your username and the time so we all know who said what.....benjicharlton (talk) 03:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Help on Article
I would appreciate help.... - - John Lennons "Working Class Hero" became an anthem for the workin class in the 1970's in the UK and Ireland. Describing a painfull journey from childhood to teenage years to adulthood and how circumstance and social status could limit your choices in life. Gaining controversy on release for the use of "fucking" Lennon sang how modern day distractions had combined with religion as a controlling factor of the working class. -   - "Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,    - And you think you're so clever and classless and free,    - But you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see," -   -    - In the songs final verse Lennon describes how the manipulation of your morality can be offered as the path to success. -   - "There's room at the top they are telling you still,    - But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,    - If you want to be like the folks on the hill,"

If you cant agree on what anyone says just print the lyrics they speak for themselves.

There is an an important point in all this though, I thought that wikipedia was a community project where everyone can contribute. Do not accuse me of spam and Vandalismn when I speak of my interpretation. To only include citation is displaying history only by the people in power. An old saying says "history is wrote by the victors". Are you telling me you would take the official version of from the Chineese goverment on what happened on Tiananmen Square rather than someone who was there because they weren't cited or the Khmer Rouge word against a survivors. Wikipedia is an should be a great project I know you have had problems with spam but taking a too hard a line where you delete and accuse someone who only cares about something and wrote willingly about it is wrong.

If we are to have a fair documentation of things people from every backgrounds opinions must be heard and accounted for.


 * Wikipedia is NOT the place for personal opinion. Could you please read WP:No Original Research  Anything you add to articles must have independent reliable sources. So with ref to Tienanmen square . The Chinese government's version is one, but enough independent sources reported the event, so we know what really happened...as I said they are Independent and Reliable .  Secondly...in Wikipedia it is generally considered bad form to edit articles were you have emotional involvement as statements or text my come across as decidely not Neutral in Point of view see WP:NPOV.  You can contribute ...its just that anything you add must be backed with independent research....

With reference to the changes...it is not possible for you to interpret Lennon's lyric because that is your point of view.. If Lennon stated that was what he meant in a later interview, then we could include the statement a ref to the interview ...do you see?

benjicharlton (talk) 03:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The original article stated an interpretation of lyrics and I added to that. Howether I will go away and try as best to find citations as this song is very important. Whats Clear is this song remains as contreversal today as in 1970 and I rekon John Lennon would be smiling about that, its not just us debating it have a look at youtube and a superb video to the song and a huge debate going on there.

I will go away and see what I can come back with supporting the true meaning of Lennons words.

My Best VivoVida.... Back soon

Can you allow the lyrics up while this is sorted please I'll edit for them

Once you have the info we can put up the lyrics under "Fair Use" see WP:Lyrics otherwise placing the lyrics breaches copyright.benjicharlton (talk) 04:16, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

There is nothing online to cite about "working class hero" its all opinion. Lennon never talked about the song.

The words speak from themself but the fact this song remains popular and contreversal to today is important.

Somethings can only be deault with by opinion or personal experience, both fail your rules.

If a survivor of Auswitch proved it and wrote about there experience they would not be published under your rules. Ann Frank would not be published under your rules. "The Killing Fields" would not be have been made under your rules.

Reason your rules Suck!!!!

If you want to record modern history you talk to people that experienced it felt it lived it not some prick in a bow tie asking for a citation.

To quote someone just because they had the power of the media is to me revolting.

Do you wish to quote The Sun in Hillsborough "We Pissed on the Dead" A headline that even today see's the Sun Newspaper on Merseyside Excluded. Or do you want the truth that wasn't at the time printed.

I say again history is determined by the victors.

I thought Wikipedia could change that but your relience on citation and failure to recognise popular opinion leads to an a elitist encyclopidia not a common one.
 * There are lots of reasons for the rules .... but its not as hard and fast as you may think...I would advise you to take the discussion to the articles "talk page" discuss it with the other editors of this article...many are avid beatles fans...see what they think. Maybe they can find sources for the opinions.  IF we allowed anyone to voice an opinion can you imagine the rubbish that would have to be published...  Its one rule for all...just not when an editor feels like it...  For example if we allowed personal opinion here... I could call anyone anything I liked citing opinion...benjicharlton (talk) 07:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)