User talk:Voceditenore/Archive 18

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page

yet more past topics...

Polysilicon depletion effect
Hello Voceditenore, I noticed the drawbacks you mentioned regarding the article Polysilicon depletion effect created by me. I would like to state here that I am constantly working on to improve the article. I have removed multiple use of 'We' & also did some edits. Can I request you to keep that article in your watch-list & suggest improvements. Thanks, Deepon (talk) 17:31, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied on your talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

thanks!
For adding a ref. It's no fun for anyone, but it is (at least by me) appreciated. --joe deckertalk to me 06:33, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! :) Actually, I find adding references sort of fun. I just stumbled across that article because the creator's talk page was on my watch list. I know zero about lacrosse, but I guess I know a tiny bit more now. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:40, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That was one of the brilliant things about working at WP:URBLPR, I think my favorite find was sourcing a winner of the Kassel Prize for Grotesque Literature. You can't buy entertainment like that! --joe deckertalk to me 06:51, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

WP Women's Project
I am also sending this message to User:Cynwolfe. I'm not sure who is actually in charge over at WP Women's Project, and I'm sure you've read This Post on the talk page. I have no vested interest in this idea, except to say that for monitoring the progress of the project, this is a valuable tool. All Tedder needs to set up the bot is Search terms. Anybody else can set up the project page and link, by just adapting what the Hawaii project has. I adapted the Hawaii model for the Texas project - piece of cake to set up and link to. Given that the project can be somewhat specific about which articles it wants included, I personally feel out of my depth to communicate the Search terms to Tedder. Perhaps no one over there really knows how to respond to this. Or maybe each individual thinks somebody else will take care of it. But I really hope the project doesn't pass up this valuable tool. Do you have any suggestions? Maile66 (talk) 11:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's History here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:03, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Just wanted to say thank you for your kind words and encouragement. It's made a difference to my WP experience. I've changed my user name, I don't feel quite so exposed now. I wouldn't have got this far with support form Yunshui, so thanks go to him too. I also want to thank you for tidying up the work I did on the CReSTeD article, it looks a lot better now.Peskyperson (talk) 07:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Remote diagnostics
I did a light copy edit and left the tag in place for someone to check to make sure I added the references correctly. Also, I disagree with the copyright violation comments as stock statements usually are not copyrightable. Check the US Copyright Office for details. I learned this tip from rewriting recipes. Quill and Pen (talk) 20:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, Many thanks for the copyediting! I've responded to the referencing and copyright issues at Talk:Remote diagnostics. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:56, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Removal of material also used on an editor's own blog
Talkback – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:29, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at Talk:Affordable housing. – Voceditenore (talk) 18:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had not found FAQ/Copyright before, and suggest that it be added to Template:Wikipedia copyright, and perhaps also shown very prominently at the top of copyright. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Good idea! I'll see what can be done. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Cordiali Saluti da Campora San Giovanni...
... ringraziamenti e gentilissima richiesta di miglioria e ampliamento per Radio Studio 54 Network, grazie come sempre di vero cuore --Lodewijk Vadacchino (talk) 12:11, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Buon Pomeriggio a Lei,

la scrivo per salutarla e sapere come sta, e per augurarle un eccellente weekend qualora non ci sentissimo prima. Oltre a questo le chiedo una cortesia, quella cioé se può migliorare l'articolo sulla radio ammiraglia di Calabria: Radio Studio 54 Network. finalmente è abbastanza completa in italiano, e dopo che l'Owner in persona mi ha scritto e telefonato pregandomi di chiedere a chi ha collaborato con me nella stesura dell'articolo nelle varie lingue, se potessimo attenerci al testo in italiano che finora è quello più corpulento e pieno di contenuti. Le chiedo se può farmi la cortesia di tradurlo secondo l'articolo in italiano, con la cortese la ringrazio per aiutarmi sempre nei momenti di dubbio e nelle traduzioni, la ringrazio per tutto quello che ha fatto, fa e farà per me. se ha bisogno di qualche traduzione in calabrese chieda pure. Le mando un fraterno abbraccio da Campora San Giovanni, grazie ancora. Luigi--Lodewijk Vadacchino (talk) 12:11, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ciao, Luigi. Purtoppo, per il momento non ho tempo per tradurre il testo dalla Wikipedia Italiana, magari dopo l'estate. Ma c'è un' altra problema. Da dove viene tutta quella informazione sulla storia di Radio Studio 54 Network? Certamente, non è nella fonte che apparisce alla fine di quella sezione. Non posso aggiungere l'informazione qui se non c'è una fonte giusta per verificarla. Cordiali saluti, Voceditenore (talk) 09:46, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note to non-Italian speakers: User:Lodewijk Vadacchino was asking me if I could expand the English version of Radio Studio 54 Network by translating the information in the Italian Wikipedia version. I explained that I might be able to get to it after the summer, but that I couldn't add it here until there is a reliable source for the History section in the Italian Wikipedia article. Voceditenore (talk) 09:46, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

YLS
I was just about to work on the YLS article, had http://www.law.yale.edu/about/historyofyls.htm open and the Yale Law School from last night. Luckily I refreshed, to see you had already taken care of it. Nice work.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  16:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Bloody Knife
On Bloody Knife, I tend to agree. I think the GA reviewers are tough, as they ought to be, and it might not have even been noticed had it not been for the GA review. This isn't to diminish the GA comments, but given the backlog, and more serious cases, I support relisting, and maybe someone else will take that one on. On the one hand, it's a little more work than some others to get it right. I had hoped someone might see it as an opportunity to get a GA credit, making the effort worthwhile.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  16:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for relisting this. I think it's the best solution, and frankly, I doubt if it even rises to the level of actual copyvio—very, very borderline. Re the YLS article, I had to laugh since I'm sure it was added either by a student or an alumnus. I wonder if they passed their course on copyright law. I wonder if YLS even has courses on copyright law. ;-) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Kitty archived at User talk:Voceditenore/Archive 3


 * Thank you!. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:53, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Article guidelines
I added a link to WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats to the Template:WPO menu. If this isn't OK, please revert. (I had some trouble locating that particular page, although I guess it should have been obvious. I didn't realize how much things had been reorganized recently. I think you greatly improved the overall organization, but got confused at first.) Also, I'm wondering why WikiProject Opera is not a subcategory of WikiProject Classical music rather than WikiProject Music. Thanks in advance for feedback! --Robert.Allen (talk) 17:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Adding a link to it in the nav template was fine, although I reformatted it. I completely revamped the project's main page last September. It had become an unfriendly monster. See discussions here and here.


 * As for the project category, do you mean "parent project"? Our parent is WikiProject Arts. This was done deliberately when the OP was founded because opera is a multiple art form (primarily theatre and music). See also Category:WikiProject Arts. For ease of navigation by people looking for WikiProjects (as opposed to articles), we are also listed as sub-cats of Category:WikiProject Music and Category:WikiProject Theatre but it doesn't mean they are our parents. Nor is WikiProject Classical Music. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I see why I was confused now. --Robert.Allen (talk) 11:16, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

National Youth Music Theatre
Thank you Voceditenore for your explanation of your concerns regarding the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Youth_Music_Theatre. I appreciate the difficulties here but I had, subsequent to previous advice, entirely rewritten my own contributions to this article, ensuring that it was properly referenced and attributed, objective and entirely factual. These passages have also been completely re-worded and the article bears no similarity to the website history besides some of the key facts illustrated and their presentation in chronological order. Much of the original Wikipedia article pre-dates the website version, which first appeared, I think, in January 2011. I am unclear as to the simplest and most effective way to resolve this issue but, as previously stated elsewehere, I am eager to ensure that the page is acceptable. Please advise. With thanks Jezza264 (talk) 18:29, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I've left advice on the way forward and more detailed explanations at Talk:National Youth Music Theatre. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Terrific work in cleaning this up, and taking the time to write an acceptable version . I was the IP editor who stumbled on this and tagged it a few weeks back, and am duly impressed with your follow-through. Thanks and best wishes, 99.11.4.60 (talk) 23:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

References sub-headings
Many thanks for your note and the linked explanation as to why this is detrimental to non-sighted readers. Clearly, we have to take this into account, but the situation begs the question as to whether the same issue applies to the subheadings "Cited sources" et al?

I wonder whether there is the possibility of a special automated program to run through and make the changes?

As time goes on, I'll be happy to make corrections, especially when I'm in the Refs sections of articles for any reason, but, in future, it's clear as to how we should proceed. Viva-Verdi (talk) 18:17, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/John Delaney (businessman)
Your opinion here, whatever it is, would be appriciated.4meter4 (talk) 03:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Carbon Recycling International
Sigh. Well, is there any way to keep the article as a stub or something along those lines? It would be nice to keep it as a vehicle for future growth. I may also be able to find a few references from Icelandic sources. What are your suggestions? Cktt13 (talk) 16:37, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I know it's disappointing, but I think that if you work more on the article by having it moved to your user space to continue drafting there, it may eventually be ready for publication with a much better chance of being kept. Stuartyeates and I have left some suggestions about this at the article's talk page. It sounds like an interesting company. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Antony Polonsky
Hi Voceditenore, This allegation about Polonsky leaving LSE under a cloud has re-appeared in his article, with a so-called cite. Is this worth challenging? Your opinion welcome. Mick gold (talk) 09:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Mick. I'm in Italy without my usual speedy internet access, but I did notice those additions. I'd suggest contacting WikiProject Resource Exchange for someone with access to the Times Higher Education Supplement to check the exact contents of the source listed:
 * "Rebuked professor hopes for new job," The Times Higher Education Supplement, 5 July 1991

With BLP articles, and especially with an allegation like this, it's important to know if the actual source bears out the interpretation put on it in the WP article. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I removed the criticism of Goska's review on NPOV grounds - legitimate, I think. I'll try to look at THES in library. Mick gold (talk) 06:49, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked at the THES, 1991. The story is there as paraphrased in WP article. Mick gold (talk) 13:03, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Lalla
No problem! Glad to help out, if I can. BTW, have a great trip! --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problems
Hi Voceditenore, I see that you're fairly active dealing with copyright issues. Could I ask you to take a look at the John D. Caputo bibliography entry at Copyright problems/2012 September 12? It would be much appreciated. Thanks, 21:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Parent revocation
Thanks for catching that: I was going to close the AfD after the deletion, but got called away before I could do so, and forgot to go back and finish. -- The Anome (talk) 15:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Le Laudi
Work in progress, ja..♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:29, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * This is great. I'm going to have a massive barnstar collection soon SMirC-smile.svg. I've answered your question on your talk page and let you know how to contact me here without the barnstars (lovely as they are). Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:08, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Yahan Main Ghar Ghar Kheli
Thanks for your message. Psychonaut managed to edit-conflict me both at Copyright problems/2012 October 24 and at my talk page. I am still working on this: see my talk page. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Using Opera Carolina Website as a source for James Meena...
Hi. First of all, I should disclose that I know James Meena and therefore my goal is not to damage the article, but improve it as to not make it a target for the wiki-nazis. That being said, using the Opera Carolina website as a cite for James Meena could appear as a self-published cite as I am guessing that Jim's bio on that site was written either by or for him. However, I cannot believe that Opera Carolina would risk its or Jim's reputation by publishing anything on that page that is not true. So my suggestion would be to try to find third-party sources such as newspaper articles, etc. for the info that used the Opera Carolina website as its source. Cheers! Eric Cable |  Talk  12:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. I don't think you have to worry about the "Wiki-Nazis". It's OK to use official bios like that as long as the claim they're referencing isn't "unduly self-serving" and as long as there are plenty of other independent references in the article. Using it to reference "He also studied conducting with Thomas Mihalak, who was Music Director of the New Jersey Symphony for six seasons; the opera conductor Rudolph Fellner; and Boris Halip, a former conductor of the Bolshoi Ballet who had emigrated to Cleveland and with whom Meena also studied violin." seems fine. If I eventually find another source I'll use it instead. Frankly, I'd suggest you remove that tag as it has now placed the article in Category:Accuracy disputes from October 2012, and for pretty minor reason, but it's up to you. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:34, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh, I guess you're right. Although, you never know what the Wiki-Nazis will get their panties in a wad over. Eric Cable  |  Talk  14:21, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Hellmut G. Haasis
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Civility enforcement
I have a horrible feeling  that  while trying with  my  sticky  Internet connection to  concur with  an edit/vote you  made, I  may  have accidentally  deleted your vote. I coundn't  get  my  vote to  register, and roblem is I just  can't  find your vote again. If this is so  please understand that  this was a genuine accident  and if you  can find it, please restore your comment. Sorry again, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:46, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. It wasn't  deleted. Sorry to  have bothered you. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:43, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Always nice to hear from you Kudpung! Take care, Voceditenore (talk) 12:43, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Template:Franz Lehár
Regarding Template:Franz Lehár, I am not often in opera space, but in most stage/theatrical content, the more normal template is the navbox at the bottom of the page. The same is true for popular music. I created this as part of a batch of such templates. Let me know if you want to TFD it or what you know about derivatives of his work. I have already created Template:The Merry Widow. Does he have other works in need of such templates?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Above was in response to this message. Voceditenore (talk) 06:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think he has other works which have been as extensively adapted as The Merry Widow. I'm wondering if instead you could expand Template:Franz Lehár to include adaptations and songs (if they have their own articles). Some candidates which spring to mind are The Count of Luxembourg (an adaptation of Der Graf von Luxemburg as a musical), The Count of Luxemburg (1972 film), The Count of Luxemburg (1957 film), Dein ist mein ganzes Herz (a song from The Land of Smiles), and Where the Lark Sings (film). Possibly also Vienna Waltzes (a ballet choreographed to waltzes by Lehár, Richard Strauss and Johann Strauss). Voceditenore (talk) 06:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You obviously know the subject better than I. You don't need my permission to lend your expertise. I can expand though if you don't want to or you can try your hand and I will assist.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * In its current form, the content of Franz Lehár is identical to Lehár operas and thus redundant. Note that the latter via Composer navbox adds Italic title, which is useful. Either Franz Lehár gets expanded as Voceditenore suggests, or it should not be used for articles in Category:Operas by Franz Lehár. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:28, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with my tp stalker :). Tony, do go ahead and expand the template. They are not one of my strong points and I'd rather not fiddle with them myself. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank You
I just wanted to thank you very much for you input in the ANI discussion about vocal ranges. It is a very frustrating issue because it affects literally thousands of articles. You are the first person in the dicussion to understand and address some of the big concerns I have about what Tribal44 is doing. The problem is so widespread now (because it involves so many articles) that I don't even know where to begin to try to get the mess cleaned up. I'm sure her initial intentions were good when she thought it would be a good idea to put singers' vocal ranges into their articles, but when editors started reverting over and over again, and she kept reverting back, she obviously realized there was a problem. I can't get her to understand that even though a particular fact can be sourced, doesn't mean it's worthy of being included in a Wikipedia article. (However, many/most of her sourcing fails the reliability test.) Since this involves a huge number of articles, and not just a couple articles, how do you get Tribal to stop doing this in articles? Again, thanks for your great comments. --76.189.121.57 (talk) 12:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. Well, edit warring is definitely the wrong thing to do. You're lucky both you and Tribal44 weren't blocked for it. Both of you were well-over 3 reverts each on Vibeke Stene alone. My suggestion is that when you encounter something like this, check the reference carefully. If it does not support the text in the article add failed verification after the reference. If it is in the source but it's an unreliable source add verify credibility. If it's the singer's own blog or the singer writing on one of their official forums, it's reliable enough since the claim isn't unduly self-serving, but what the singer says has to match what the Wikipedia text says. If it's completely unreferenced add citation needed. Then leave it at that. The reader is alerted that the claim is dubious or unsourced. If you feel strongly about it, also raise the issue on the article talk page, and wait for other editors to give an opinion. But make sure you do not couch your talk page comments in a way which could be construed as criticising the editor. Say something like "The claim that so-and-so is a such-and-such is not verified by the source ... It's inappropriate to use operatic voice types for singers in other genres because ... etc. etc." Don't say things like "So-and so keeps adding such-and-such" to this article and they don't know what they're talking about", even if you feel it to be true. Just talk about the element in the article's text that you think is wrong or inappropriate and why, not about the person who made it. If a discussion ensues, keep a really cool head, even if your "opponent" makes personal remarks or is uncivil, ignore it and continue in an objective, polite tone. If you feel that might be difficult for you to do, you should step away from the article for a while and find a more rewarding part of the encyclopedia to edit. At least your criticisms of the article will be on record and you will be on record as a civil, calm, and knowledgeable editor. Hope that helps. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Voceditenore, thanks a lot for the above comments and also for the newer comments that I saw you posted in the discussion. I really appreciate you taking the time to so meticulously look into the matter and see how things progressed, then posting your observations. That was really nice of you. I really felt ganged up on and that almost no one was really looking into what was going on and why I was so concerned about the content issue. So thanks again. :) --76.189.121.57 (talk) 20:08, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians
Thanks for listing the refs. But you didn't sign it, so it makes it look like I added it. So can you add a comment to let other editors know that you merged that into my comments? Also, your list only includes the refs (full cites), but it doesn't include the 21 external links to all the webpages. I just took exactly what was in the articles. Thanks! :) --76.189.121.57 (talk) 15:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Btw, I really enjoyed the comments you posted there. --76.189.121.57 (talk) 15:29, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I just did that temporarily so I could check some of the references that were in footnotes (the reflist markup still links the footnotes to the correct article). I've reverted it now. As I suspected, most of the sources were quite awful. It will be interesting to see how the discussion develops. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:06, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. The term you used for the sources ("appalling") was very accurate. I've looked at many more of the singer articles and they are no different than the ones I listed in the Musicians discussion. I put that list of articles because I want to give the other editors some perspective on the reality of this problem. The articles I listed are only the most recent ones, but it goes back years beyond that. Thanks. :) --76.189.121.57 (talk) 18:51, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Just a clarification on my statement at the project - if consensus is that poorly sourced vocal ranges shouldnt be in popular/non-classical artist's articles (as it looks to be heading that way), I will continue with my removal of the poorly sourced stuff. Anything with a decent source and good prose I will leave be with a note on the talk page to hopefully spark a discussion and go with local consensus there. No doubt I will get flack from certain parties and possibly accusations of stalk/hound but cross that river when I come to it. Will give it to the weekend, if you want me to hold off longer let me know on my talk page. Only in death does duty end (talk) 15:01, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't need consensus at that discussion to remove poorly sourced or unsourced material (including material where there is a source, but it doesn't remotely verify the assertion). That's a given with BLP articles, but frankly with any article. So, just go for it. I agree that discussing the sourced cases on the talk page is a good idea, though. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I dont see BLP as a club to remove info I disagree with like some other people on WP. (Not talking about yourself btw). I dont mind using the BLP policy for things that blatantly cross it, but I prefer to rely on RS and Undue/non-encyclopedic etc to make a case for removal. BLP tends to come across as heavy-handed when used as the primary reason. But by poorly sourced I mean sources that may be accurate, but are poor. Example - 'Katy Perry peformed at X location' from a blog/column. I would generally let that slide, easily verifiable. 'Katy Perry performed at X location as a contralto'... Not so good. Probably true if the columnist/blogger is half-decent, cant really be verified unless other people make mention of her voice specifically, and as I said before, its not an indication of total range. I'm giving it til weekend mainly so more people can join in at the project. Unless it changes drastically between now and Sat, I shall be hitting quite a few articles. I am surprised more metal fans have not piped up to be honest. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:05, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

House of Worth
A temporary page containing a re-write of the entire House of Worth article has been made for admin review. NightSt✷r (talk)  13:26, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at Talk:House of Worth. Voceditenore (talk) 04:40, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The Bartered Bride
Hi, I'd be glad if you could spare a moment to make a brief comment on a thread that has opened up, regarding the Bride, on my talkpage. Brianboulton (talk) 23:02, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Plinio Clabassi
Thank you for your help with the article on Plinio Clabassi - a singer of stature whom I thought deserved a mention - I admit I am not very good with references, I just don't seem to get the hang of it. Feel free to update any of my articles. Best Wishes. Michel. --Marleau (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Help? Copyright and notability issues at Symbiotic ORM (software)
Hi Voceditenore. Didn't know where to turn, and I remember seeing your name come up in copyright discussions. I hope you can help. The page at Symbiotic ORM (software) was put up by the software's creator, copied from his own website, and rightly tagged as a copyvio. The creator has since put a line on his website in an attempt to grant Wikipedia permission to use the content. So my first question would be, does that resolve the copyright issue?

The second problem is that I don't know how to handle the page's notability and COI issues. It seems to be a definite candidate for deletion. I've been trying to explain this to the creator on the talk page but I'm new to this game and I'm definitely not achieving anything. I don't want him to leave feeling snubbed, but the profusion of issues with this page has made the discussion confused and I'm feeling very out of my comfort zone. Sorry to drag you in; I understand if you're not interested. --Noiratsi (talk) 10:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I had a go at re-explaining at Talk:Symbiotic ORM (software). As you can see, he then started making legal threats and has managed to get himself blocked. You've been more than patient with him, and had explained the issues well, but there's only so much you can do. Some editors, particularly those with a personal COI can be extraordinarily tendentious and tenacious, until of course, they finally leave (or are sent on their way). Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:32, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help and for your comments! Shame he wasn't in the mood to listen. --Noiratsi (talk) 17:15, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

If you think Ishizawa's performance is authentic, give us the reason.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Iorijapan (talk • contribs) 14:38, 7 December 2012‎

Please take this discussion to Talk:Goldberg Variations. I am also leaving you warnings on you talk page concerning your edit-warring and other issues. I suggest you read them. Voceditenore (talk) 14:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Warning? You have to answer my question first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iorijapan (talk • contribs) 14:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Please take this discussion to Talk:Goldberg Variations. If you continue to edit war either with this name or the IP you've been using, you will probably end up blocked. Voceditenore (talk) 15:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * You threat me like this. You should answer first about this issue. Why not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iorijapan (talk • contribs) 15:22, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * For the last time, this is an issue concerning the content of a specific article. The appropriate place to discuss this is on the article's talk page where a consensus of all the editors involved can be reached. I will not respond to any more of your messages on this subject which are left on my talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 15:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

David Lloyd-Jones (conductor)
Just wondering why you zapped the WPO banner on his talk page? Category:Music directors (opera) includes conductors such as Charles Mackerras who have the banner - what's the difference between him and Lloyd-Jones, who was the founding music director of Opera North? I see also that John Pritchard, who was music director at Glyndebourne for a bit, and Paul Daniel (Opera North) don't have the banner but Richard Farnes does. There isn't a conductors project (I think), so I don't see why conductors who are or were in charge of opera companies shouldn't have the WPO banner - this reminds me of the recent discovery that Mozart, Tchaikovsky and several others were lacking the banner. Best. --GuillaumeTell 17:07, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My bad. I've just reverted myself and rated it start class. I was doing a blitz on all the unassessed opera articles yesterday, and removed the banner without reading the article carefully. I agree with you on the gneral principle, go ahead and add the banner wherever you think it's appropriate. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:19, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

NATIONAL YOUTH MUSIC THEATRE corrections & additions
Dear Voceditenore, I note that Richard Stilgoe has been added to the alumni list. He wrote Bodywork for the NYMT, as mentioned in the reference given, and he also served as a trustee, but he is not an alumnus. Please would you remove? It has also been brought to my attention that the following alumni are conspiciously missing from the list: Zoe Birkett, Robin Blaze, Stephen Graham (actor), Sally Hawkins, Toby Jones and Simon Thomas (television presenter). With many thanks. Jezza264 (talk) 23:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied at Talk:National Youth Music Theatre. - Voceditenore (talk) 20:01, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

BBC Radio 3 New Generation Artists scheme
Please could you look at this page (which I don't think is on your watchlist) and then see my question on the talk page please? If you agree with me then I'll get tidying up. almost -instinct 18:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied (at length) at Talk:BBC Radio 3 New Generation Artists scheme. Get your broom and dustpan.SMirC-smile.svg Best, Voceditenore (talk) 19:32, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Portal:Society nominated as Featured Portal candidate

 * Portal:Society

I've nominated Portal:Society for featured portal candidacy, discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Society.

Note: I'm notifying you because previously commented at the featured portal candidacy discussion for Portal:Arts at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Arts, and it'd be nice to have a relatively more prompt resolution on this particular one as it's also part of the Main Page Featured Portal drive.

Thank you for your time, &mdash; Cirt (talk) 06:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
...for handling Newmark family of Southern California. It was on my watchlist but obviously I didn't notice it had been unblanked. (I've been focusing on non-free images rather than copyvio text recently.) VernoWhitney (talk) 14:32, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Thaddäus Troll

 * He is now also featured (for a little longer) on Portal:Germany ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

WADR
I just came across WP:WADR and then remembered this exchange at Articles for deletion/Clustering of composers: call and response. Any intent? (Don't answer that.) -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:55, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, more a case of "right back atcha" :) Hilarious banner at the top of that page, by the way, and so true. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Conchita Badía
Dear Voceditenore, Thank you for your suggestions. My article about Talk:Conchita Badía is actually much longer, but I am finishing the translation into English. Conxita Badia was my great grandmother, and with the rest of the family we wrote the article in order to publish it in several languages (Catalan, Spanish, French, Italian and English). In some of them (Catalan and Spanish) it is already published. My sister Eulàlia Domènech is the film director of "Conxita Badia no existeix", which has been selected to participate into a documentary film festival in Barcelona next week and will soon be presented in other festivals and cinemas. That's why we want to have the same article in all the languages. Thank you. Mireiadb talk —Preceding undated comment added  18:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello, Mireiadb, thank you for getting in touch. But I'm afraid you cannot have a direct translation of [ the article on your sister's website. First of all, it is in violation of our copyright policy as the article does not have a compatible copyright license. I notice you also pasted it into the Catalan Wikipedia. Secondly, the tone is is not encyclopedic. If you wish to have an complete English translation published of the article to coincide with the premiere of the film, you must do it on your sister's website, not here. You cannot use Wikipedia or ask us to change our editorial guidelines and requirements as part of the publicity for the film. I'll write more to you about this issue tomorrow. Voceditenore (talk) 18:30, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Pirate discographies
Just see your note on the Opera Project talkpage. I am leaving a note to myself on my own talk to remind me to monitor this problem, not only for Tosca but for other opera discographies. I have been distracted recently by my efforts on Peter Warlock, who didn't get round to writing opera - though he did think about it. Brianboulton (talk) 08:01, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Brian. I'm about to update that notice to see if I can get even more eyes on it. The editor in question was initally socking using 3 different IPs. I was about to ask for semi-protection for these pages when they registered an account. Despite multiple messages on the "new" user's talk page, they simply refuse to discuss and continue to edit war over the pirates as well as making bizarre claims and using fake references to support spurious assertions. They're now extending their activity, e.g. . On a much more pleasant note, the Peter Warlock article is fabulous and beautifully written! I hang my head in shame that I'd never heard of him. What a life! Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:39, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * On the La bohème discography, I am dubious about the 2005 DVD entry - Daniel Oren and the Orchestra e Coro del Arena Di Verona. I can't find this in any of the mainstream catalogues. Does it ring any bells? Brianboulton (talk) 17:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Brian. I've never heard of this seemingly defunct "label". I assume you've seen this description of it. I'm almost sure it's a pirate. For one thing, it's also sold by Premiere Opera and advertised as having no subtitles, which indicates to me that it was recorded by an attending pirate, not even an off-air recording since the RAI broadcasts invariably have subtitles in Italian. Also. the Arena di Verona does release DVDs of many of their productions. Note that it's not listed here. I'd say take it off. 08:57, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Editor-Ed. Program interaction
Hey Voceditenore. Following up from our discussion at the RfC, I was wondering if you had any ideas for better mechanisms to bring together problem student editors/profs and the WP editor base. The Ed Noticeboard is relatively unknown, and currently has tumbleweeds blowing by. For it to be effective, editors need to know about it. I took from your comments that you didn't see a noticeboard as ideal, and I agree, so I was wondering if there were other ways you have thought of. Or indeed any ideas for improved interaction. I'd like to redesign the student article talk page template so it's more useful, i.e. links to EDUN and both the prof and the ambassadors talk. That would at least give frustrated editors a path when students aren't using the talk page (which they need to, but that's another area to work on). Anyways, if you have any ideas, even half-baked, I'd be interested. The Interior (Talk) 19:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! I think the EDUN is OK for non-USEP projects and can be useful, especially when editors spot what appears to be a problematic class project going on but no indication of what it is and who's running it. Its tumbleweed state at the moment may be that the Fall semester is only just now getting under way. For the US/Canada EP your suggested addtions to the template are a very good idea. But you might want a separate notice board/talk page dedicated to editor interaction specificially with US/Can project (the OA talk page isn't ideal for that) and perhaps specifically link to the talk page in the template. Just another observation... The talk pages of individual student projects are currently under-utilized by both the students and the Online Ambassadors. These could allow the mentors to give feedback that would be useful to more than one student and avoid singling out specific students, which can be awful for a newbie. See this page for an example of how I do this with the class that I mentor informally, although I also communicate on their individual talk pages. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:14, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I hadn't really thought about using the class talk page, but you're right, it is a good central spot for discussions.  We'd have to ask the students to watchlist it, but that could be done (or would happen already if part of the assignment was to make an edit to that page).  One drawback is that it creates a potential point of confusion - I notice that students are often confused as to when to post to article talk, their OA's talk, or their own talk.   An explanatory template for student talk pages might help.  I like how you go about communicating with classes in your link, I think giving examples of related, high-quality extant articles is very useful in helping students understand tone, style, and formatting.
 * On a completely unrelated note, I notice you have a linguistics background. I need a bit of help with an IPA conversion on one of my recent articles, Illecillewaet Glacier (IPA template is in first sentence).  I have a good reference for a (not sure what you call it) informal pronunciation, but I'd like to get the IPA done up proper.  I took one 300 level linguistics course, but it was too long ago and I"m afraid I'd mess it up.  Take a look if you have time :)
 * Thanks for your thoughtful participation in the RfC. I am bit confused as to what to take away from it so far, but there has been some excellent feedback on, and criticisms of, the proposal.   The Interior  (Talk) 16:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Faith Esham Verification
Since you added the verification tag, I made an entry in the talk page of Talk:Faith Esham.--Gciriani (talk) 14:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I saw that. I've now added an inline citation for it. However, the refimprove tag is there because the article needs more citations from sources which are entirely independent of the subject with full bibliographic information. See Anna Steiger for what's required in terms of citations. Over the next couple of days, I'll try to add more citations to Esham's article if someone else hasn't done it first. By the way, are you sure she was born in Portsmouth, Ohio? Baker’s Biographical Dictionary of Musicians says she was born in Vanceburg, Ky., Aug. 6, 1948.
 * I saw your changes, since I'm watching the page. All excellent improvements, and I'm learning just as I watch your updates. I'm not sure about Portsmouth, OH, I only copied it from ImDB. I have a friend in NYC with a ton of references on paper and he knows Faith personally. He promised additional references when he has a chance to look them up, but I'll ask him about birth place.--Gciriani (talk) 16:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * IMDB is very unreliable, as it has reader generated content, and we can't accept "word from a friend" either, I'm afraid. We have to use more reliable sources. I'll probably change it when I add the Baker reference. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 16:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * My friend, who co-edited a printed opera encyclopedia thought the same as you. He has Vanceburg, KY, as place of birth in that book, and he also thought as you that IMDB is unreliable because "Hollywood people wouldn't know". So I wrote an e-mail to Faith to verify, and she replied that she was born in Portsmouth, and raised in Vanceburg. These two places are across each other from the Ohio river. So I think we can leave the article the way you corrected it. (In this case it seems that IMDB has reader-generated content as much and as good as Wikipedia)--Gciriani (talk) 12:22, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Punta Ala
I saw the picture in your user page. Is that Isola del Giglio just underneath the sun?--Gciriani (talk) 16:11, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's Elba. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 16:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Suggested update to National Youth Music Theatre
Dear Voceditenore, in order to bring the chapter 2005 Relaunch to the Present Day up to the present day, please would you add that the American composer, lyricist and playwright Jason Robert Brown collaborated with the NYMT to produce the West End première of his musical 13, which Brown also directed at The Apollo, Shaftesbury Avenue in August 2012? The company also produced his first musical theatre piece, Songs for a New World at the Bridewell Theatre, directed by Sarah Redmond, who had appeared in the UK première of the work in the same theatre. For references, I'd suggest Mark Shenton's review of 13 and, for Songs for a New World, Ken Plummer's review here:. The poster image for 13 may be found here:. With many thanks Jezza264 (talk) 22:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Replied here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Gender
As a regular of DGG, I was led to the Cluster AfD, and while I'm not sure I have time to read that up enough to make an informed comment, I noticed this edit which has set me off on a side-track. Did you know that, for those willing to declare gender, the "User profile" tab under "My preferences" offers a drop-down menu? For those who like to get it right, there is a useful template Gender and other associated ones and, if you set the preference, where anyone writes or  it would return "she" or "her" rather than "he/she" or "his/hers". Regards, JohnCD (talk) 22:29, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Vocal range inflation in Wikipedia
Hello VdT, I am turning to you in semi-despair over several episodes of vocal range inflation in Wikipedia that seem out of control. Everywhere people are claiming that this or that singer has four, five, or six octaves, where there are no readily available sources to ascertain a more realistic claim. Two examples:David D'Or is currently "given" four octaves (he is trained as both tenor and counter-tenor, and he can reliably do C3 to G5, so three would be more appropriate), and I am pulling my hair with some incredibly stubborn fanboys giving Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan six octaves (I may be wrong but E2 to D6 seems very generous in his case, though this does not diminish from his stature). IMHO this is detrimental to Wikipedia and disrespectful to the singer.

I can do all the original research I want, but it won't cut it here, whereas the fanboys can cite 600 sites... that copied the original claim from Wikipedia, all of them. And they call that evidence. Any advice? elpincha (talk) 09:43, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually vocal range in general is not my forte and I know nothing about the kind of music that Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sings. In Western music people confuse the ability to make a very low/very high note for effect with the ability to sing consistently and competently the music composed for that vocal range. The current source for Khan's 6 octaves, which seems reasonably OK, claims "his range was greater than all the keys of a harmonium". It does not explictly say "6 octaves". How many octaves do those harmoniums cover? The source also claims that after much work, he could sing from bass to soprano, which I guess would make that 6 octaves?. My advice in these cases is to let it drop, unless you can find an equally (or even more) reliable published source that claims something different. However, the sources for David D'Or's vocal range are extremely dubious—his own website and press releases plus an inaccessible podcast. But frankly, I'd let that one drop too and simply register your objection on the talk page. D'Or's article reads like a fan page to any neutral observer and they would probably dismiss virtually all its contents, especially if they look at the sources. Voceditenore (talk) 09:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the very kind reply. Some considerations follows.


 * An Indian harmonium goes from C3 to E6, i.e. three and a quarter octaves (sources for this are everywhere; the relevant parts of "The Harmonium Handbook" by Satyaki Kraig Brockschmidt, are available for free on Google Books link).


 * Even if you could hit the entire range of feasible male singing, you'd have at most four octaves. Some people are known for making sounds below and above these extremes, but indeed, that is not "singing". The funny thing is, NFAK was not a vocal acrobat going for extremes; he was a husky tenor that could go a bit below the bottom end of harmonium (maybe G2, which is the low end of the tenor range anyway), hit a comfortable D5 as documented here), and maybe go a bit beyond that. Even if we grant him soprano powers, I'd cap that at a very optimistic C6 for, yes, three and change. What really irks me is that some misguided fans seem to think that an extreme range is an accomplishment per se, while even Plácido Domingo, who is great doing both baritone and tenor, will not make any such claims (3.5 octaves for him). Sorry for being this long. elpincha (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

List of operas by Donizetti
User:AlanPalgut, who doesn't respond to Talkpage messages, has been amending various lists of operas by ..., sometimes helpfully, sometimes not. Robert.Allen and I are wondering about his change from I piccioli virtuosi ambulanti to I piccoli virtuosi ambulanti. The second version looks to me like "The tiny strolling players", but "piccioli", though a genuine Italian word, seems to relate to either plants or small change ([]) - "The superior walking plants"?!? Any ideas? My Italian O-level hasn't been much used since 1971.
 * Changing the subject (sort of), I was approached by someone who would like a translation of the libretto of La Spinalba for a recording (see my Talk page near the bottom). I more or less managed a WP synopsis but that's about it, and I see that some corrections have already been made to it. Might this be of interest to you or could you suggest someone who could help?  Financial recompense doesn't seem to be involved, however....


 * Feel free to reply by email if you'd prefer. Best.--GuillaumeTell 21:34, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * How about The Little Perambulating Virtuosi? PS - I see someone (Jeremy Commons?) writing in the Journal of the Donizetti Society translates it as "The little wandering players" --Robert.Allen (talk) 22:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * First picciolo. It's simply an older and more poetic form of piccolo (little/small) and slightly endearing. Donizetti/Mayr's original form should be used, of course. The use of picciolo makes sense now that I see that Mayr assembled it for his choir school's end of term concert. Anyhow, Little wandering players is fine (although not literal), as is the more literal Little wandering virtuosi. I wouldn't use tiny in this context.


 * Nope, couldn't do the libretto—a HUGE amount of work. I've translated a few Neapolitan songs for a concert program booklet, and that was bad enough. No one who could do it immediately comes to mind. I hope they find someone, although if they're not willing to pay, that will narrow the field considerably. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 05:33, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Two minor procedural questions.
When I relisted, I removed it form the old date, thinking that when we closed a day, it should only contain completed items. However, I see that you relisted an item, and left it in both places. Is that the preferred action? Second, the page is busting at the seams, so I'm hoping to close some days (although the timing is poor, as I am on the road until Sunday, with limited internet time) I see notations that some items are at CCI. Can we treat them a closed for the purposes of CP, and close a day if the only open items are also at CCI, or should they be addressed before closing the day? SPhilbrick (Talk)  12:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, Sphilbrick. :) We don't remove them from the day they're listed on. If you want to use it, there's a couple of annotations we use to indicate that an item has been postponed, but you can also just add a note indicating that it was relisted and why. CCI items are marked to guide admins that a problem is part of a larger issue (for instance, if User:Foo has imported content from Source X but is listed at CCI, we have good reason to suspect that all the content by User:Foo in that article is a problem), but they are only listed at CP when they need to be handled at CP. So, yes, we need to address them before closing the day. :) Let's see if I can knock off a day myself. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:08, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi MRG! Lovely to see you here, but what about your vacation from CP, huh, huh? SMirC-smile.svg I must say the CP page is like the proverbial Hydra. While I was cleaning one article, I clicked on a link in it and found a whole load of copyvio (by someone else). Grrr. Voceditenore (talk) 13:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * PS I was a bit naughty and IAR-ed at CP. I know clerks aren't supposed to deal with listings newer than 5 days, but I saw this and knew I could deal with it quickly. Sooo... I did. Voceditenore (talk) 13:55, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks MRG, I replaced it in the 20 May listing, with a note that it has been relisted.
 * I hope you will not decide to knock off a day of CP. If the community cannot keep up when you are doing less than the lion's share of the work, it will be good to know. I hope and think we can keep up, but it won’t be a bad thing if we go through a little pain getting there. As an aside, do you have an easy way to know or guesstimate how many CP entries you've handled. I was thinking of a joke userbox, if for example, you've cleared out 500 (it's probably many more, now that I think about it), someone who cleared five items could add a "I've cleared a centi-MRG of CP items" userbox, which would simultaneously give them credit for contributing, while making it clear that there's a LOT more to do. SPhilbrick  (Talk)  15:14, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Anna Steiger
Thanks for all your work on the article.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) I'd never heard of her until she appeared on WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs last week. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:37, 14 July 2012 (UTC)