User talk:Vrnparker

removed vandalism warnings S facets  01:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi I dont know what the problem is but I looked over all the regs and rules and the only one I can be faulted for is not giving a source for the image I added. My edits were reverted and as far as Im concerend as an Initiated disciple of Prabhupada who live dwith him in India I know what Im talking about in this reagrd. Pls let me know who I need to speak with in order to have my edits accepted. Thank you Below is a copy of my edits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._C._Bhaktivedanta_Swami_Prabhupada#Within_India

Within India


Initially, Srila Prabhupada began his public preaching mission in India. He founded the League of Devotees in Jhansi in 1953.



After three years only one disciple, Acharya Prabhakar Mishra, joined him in his efforts. Srila Prabhupada recognized that many Indians were enamored with the West and considered India's own traditions as an obstacle to modern progress. He therefore decided to bring his mission of spreading Krishna consciousness to the West and founded the International Society of Krishna Consciousness in New York City in 1966.

After his success in the United States and Europe, Srila Prabhupada returned to India in 1971. He was welcomed, in 1971, as a conquering hero and accorded a welcome befitting a head of state. He held many public programs which were attended by hundreds of thousands of people. However, India's Government attempted to discourage the growth of Prabhupada's movement as verified in a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and a former Canadian Ambassador to Iran.

"And the (Indian) government indirectly giving us so many hindrances in India. Yes. They do not like. One of the important member of the cabinet, he frankly said that "We do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India." Because they know it, Indira Gandhi and company, that India is naturally inclined to Krsna. And if the selected people of the world, combined together, they push this movement in India, then the whole program of the modern leaders will collapse. That's a fact. And that was my idea.........This is Indian government's policy. They think that this so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India's material degradation. So(the Indian Govt thinks)this (spirituality) must be killed....."

In response to a question as to whether India was the most important place to preach in the world, Srila Prabhupada declared that India is the most important place to preach in the universe. It is interesting to note that all of his building projects were carried out within the boundaries of India. Despite the Indian Government's policies, Srila Prabhupada's movement increased and has since become very popular.

In India, ISKCON has since become a very respected organization, and its temples are always filled with thousands of pilgrims daily. Many Indian people have been inspired by Prabhupada and ISKCON to practice a serious and dedicated approach to their own Hindu traditions. Thus, despite all of ISKCON's controversies, one of Prabhupada's main goals of re-inspiring Indians about their own culture has been achieved.


 * Hello Vrnparker, I appreciate your work in expanding this section in the Prabhupada article. I felt that some of the statements were not unanimously correct in what was being described or explained and so have condensed it down into a smaller form. For example did Srila Prabhupada leave India because he was not meeting with success there, or did he go to the West because that's what Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had asked him to do? I wasn't sure if what was being said made it particularly clear. Also I felt it best to avoid giving opinions on which country we believe Prabhupada felt was the "most important" (if any), as this seemed against the universal approach of his mission? Please forgive any offences in this regard. Hare Krishna, Gouranga(UK) 12:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear GourangaUKji, Dandavats. Of course no offense is taken because none was given. Because you are devotees and Prabhupad admirers editing I personally have no complaints. Its obvious you guys recognize his worth. That is the most important issue...is his legacy being presented nicely. As far as I can tell, in my humble opinion, it is. Thank you.

Historically, Prabhupada clearly stated the lack of interest in India was a major motivation for his preaching in the west. He stated repeatedly that if the Indians see the westerners following Krsna consciousness it would inspire the Indians and reawaken their natural krsna culture. he also is on video stating that India is the most important place in the universe to preach. So its not my opinion that was Prabhupada's direct statement.

That said I however completely agree that your point about Bhaktisiddhanta urging to preach was the initial impetus. My understanding is that when he began the League of Devotees in Jhansi it was to be the world HQ for preaching in the West and the world over. So even if he succeeded in gathering thousands of disciples in India, he would not have stopped there.

I also agree that its more effective to recognize the universal appeal beyond any national considerations in a public forum. My intent was in regard to Prabhupada and India thats why I put it in that section and I feel there is no harm to highlight the special relationship Prabhupada had with India in the India section. As a child in his gurukula Prabhupada chose his old friend Dr Sharma to run his school despite Dr Sharma being a Shankarite. asked why, he stated,"I want these boys to learn some culture." He was obviously refering to Indian-Hindu culture.

However if that were a page dedicated to Prabhupada and his relationship to India, his admiration for India, his experiences in India, his statements regarding India's unique place, it would be denying the public the historical reality that is easily verifiable by his repeated statements in this regard.We also may consider that Caitanya's Lila, Krsna's Lila, Rama's Lila all the Vaishnava Tirtha sites are all in India. There is no doubt something unique about India.

Is that important? It is as a historical point. is it in terms of preaching? Not really I guess.

Again, for me, the most important point is that Prabhupada followers are at the helm so all the above is just in the mood of sharing not an attempt to reinstate my edits. YS Vrndavan Parker

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 * Dear Vrindavan Prabhu - Obeisances & Hare Krishna! In regards to uploading images in Wikipedia, the general rule is that they either have to be copyright free (i.e 99 years old or greater), or that if you have created them yourself then you can upload them and release the rights for Wikipedia to use the image under GDFL or similar. Everything else is likely to be removed. Looking at this image, I would assume it is copyrighted to the original owner. Sometimes copyrighted images of historical importance can be used, but a strong case would have to be given in order to keep them. Best Regards, Gouranga(UK) 21:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

ISKCON and Prabhupada articles
Hey there, thank you for the nice addition to the Prabhupada article, it definitely needed expanding and I appreciate your efforts. You may want to look at adding to some of the other related articles such as ISKCON, Food For Life, and articles linked from those. Thanks again! Chopper Dave 01:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Prabhupada: India,the most sacred place within this universe etc
Haribol GourangaUK, I have been thinking about this issue and realize that you are not treating the subject of Prabhupada and India with historical accuracy. Beyond that it is woefully inadequate and by no means does justice to the issue. I also do not understand why you removed my referenced quote from Prabhupada about his experience with the Indian Govt?

I do not know all the rules of wiki, as of yet, but from my understanding if I have references than it is suitable. Then I must ask why you removed the referenced quote from Prabhupada about his experiences with the Indian govt in the section 'In India'? You also clearly suggested that I put my own feelings rather than Prabhupada's own words on the subject. you stated,"Also I felt it best to avoid giving opinions on which country we believe Prabhupada felt was the "most important" (if any)..." This is your opinion that is verifiable incorrect. Based on that you edit? I ask you Prabhu are you not editing based on yr own opinion instead of fact?

To me this shows a lack of familiarity with Prabhupada's views on India. As a Wiki newbie, I felt intimidated but now realize that as long as I have references, I have a duty to make the case as it is. In my earlier message about preaching and history I realized I had it backwards. Wikipedia is for historical facts and not for preaching. Below are direct Prabhupada quotes...some of many that clearly highlight his view that India is the most important place in the universe and other alleged opinions of mine.

I urge you to go to http://www.prabhupadavani.org/ and research Prabhupada's views. These are direct recordings, unedited and uncensored so you cant go wrong. Prabhupada also repeatedly stated that he intended to inspire Indians to revive their Krsna consciousness by making western devotees. I am actually surprised that this info isnt well known to all devotees and that Im even spending time defending it. The examples below are only some of many. 3 points you question directly or indirectly.

1)That Initial failure of his mission in India was a major impetus for his attemtps in the West.

2)Prabhupda's identifying India as the most important place to preach in the universe, Which he directly states on Video.

3)That He had a major goal of inspiring Indians thru the example of his Western devotees.

Below I attempted to use sources that confirm the above 3 topics in their historical context.

"So especially in India, the atmosphere is very good. It is especially meant, within this universe, this plot of land known as Bharatavarsa, India, is the most sacred place within this universe. And of the whole land Bharatavarsa, in Bengal, it is very sacred. And the whole of Bengal, this Nadia is very sacred. And in the whole Nadia, this part is very sacred, Mayapura Candradoya Temple. So by Krsna's grace, you have got this opportunity to live here. Take advantage, full advantage of this opportunity, spiritually fortunate. This is the statement of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Not that I am manufacturing. We cannot manufacture anything, but we can repeat the words of our predecessors. Bhaktivinoda Thakura, in his Jaiva-Dharma, or in Caitanya-siksamrta, he has stated like that. In the Bharatavarsa, Bengal is the most important place, and in Bengal, the district Nadia is most important place, because Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared. Don't take it leniently. It is very serious thing that Bharatavarsa is meant for cultivation of Krsna consciousness. Unfortunately, the present leaders, they are misleading them. Anyway, you are fortunate. You take advantage of this cult of Krsna consciousness which was spoken by Krsna Himself, in this land of Bharatavarsa, dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavah [Bg. 1.1]." http://www.prabhupadavani.org/Caitanya_Caritamrta/Text/014.html

"Just like when you go to India, they're surprised how these American boys and girls have become so mad after God. Because that, that teaches them that: "You rascal. You learn. Because you imitate from the western countries. Now see here, the western country boys and girls are dancing in Krsna consciousness. Now you imitate." That was my policy. So it is being fructified now. Yes." http://www.prabhupadavani.org/Bhagavatam/text/158.html'''

"Indians would be inspired in their own faith and culture by seeing the “dancing. white elephants”, his affectionate reference to those young westerners...."In Every Town and Village: Adaptive Strategies in the Communication of Krishna Consciousness in the UK, the First Thirty Years http://scp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/47/2/153

"So Srila Prabhupada, when he brought us here to India, he had a term for…I'm looking out today, I'm seeing all these very happy, bright, brown faces and I'm thinking what Srila Prabhupada, when we came here, what he called us. You may know. What did Prabhupada call us? Dancing white elephants..... So Prabhupada had to micro-manage everything. And why? Just so the white elephants could attract the brown elephants now. But this was Prabhupada's mission. When he came to India…Prabhupada went to America in 1965-66, then he came to India in 1971. When Prabhupada came to India in 1971, then he made India his base, he stayed in India. From India, then he would go out and visit the West. But he stayed from 1971 all the way through in India was his base. So the mission was to have the Indian people become devotees. When Prabhupada was here, he used to tell everyone, "I am the only Indian who is practicing Krishna consciousness," and it was a fact. He said, "Look what I have done, I am the only Indian." He used to tell the other Indians, "If you join, how much we can do." So I'm very happy today to see so many happy, bright, enthusiastic faces here fulfilling Prabhupada's desire. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna." Brahmananda http://www.prabhupada.com/bombay25th/pushya.html

'Regarding the Jhansi incidence referred to by your Guru maharaj I may inform you that the donor of the house did not like to hand over the estate to any individual person. I therefore registered a society (The League of Devotees) and I invited your Guru maharaj to join it as the head man. But he, as he was with the then Kunjada desired to have the property in the joint name of him and Kunjada. So I became silent and I left the whole scheme. Let us now forget all these past incidences and go forward with present responsibility." Prabhupada July 16, 1966 http://sangalog1.blogspot.com/2004_07_11_archive.html

"When I was at Jhansi, I was provided with a big palatial building to live in association with 40 workers who are being trained up for itinerary preaching work. The expenses were about Rs 1000/= per month. I approached the Gov't for help but even after one year no definite decision could be arrived at by the Govt and the matter is still pending. Jhansi was a poor place + I shifted to Delhi." Prabhupda http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Letters13.html

"Prabhupada decided to create his own movement, the League of Devotees, in 1953 in Jhansi, India. After only two years, however, the organization collapsed, having made no full-time members." http://www.bookrags.com/A.C._Bhaktivedanta_Swami_Prabhupada

"The 1950's were a difficult time for Abhay Charan. He had to leave his "League if Devotees" building because the governor's wife insisted it be used for a "Ladies Club". With no place to stay and no real support, he left Jhansi - but not his plan for a world wide association of devotees. He moved around from an 'ashram' in Delhi, stayed with different Godbrothers, now he knew he was on his own." http://www.salagram.net/SP-lifepage.htm

So I personally do not take offense. You dont know me so that is not an issue. I dont know you but if you are acting as a Wiki acharya on Prabhupada, you have a duty to watch all his videos and listen to all his lectures first. In regards to the authentic history of Prabhupada and India I am standing on well researched fact, life long training and personal experience with this issue. I plan to research wiki's rules more and will do my part to put Prabhupada's India experience in the correct historical context. As fellow devotees I look forward to your good advise in providing the public with accurate info beyond a stamp, a former PM's quote and the practically irrelevant fact that Iskcon is a legally recognized body in India. And I havent even got to the topic of the Impact of Prabhupada on India which you seem to dismiss for some reason. (Vrnparker 14:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC))

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada call

 * Vrnparker, you were, a while back now, one of the editors who contributed to the above article. Since the article has stabilised and I have added proper references as well as provided a NPOVs references, I suggest final edits by the editors who were contributing to the article. Following the general proofing and copyedit, I would suggest nominating it towards GA (Good Article). Wikidās-ॐ 14:22, 31 May 2008 (UTC)