User talk:WINTELTEK

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Please use references when adding info to Flying Leatherneck Aviation Museum. Also, please don't add info such as directions, admission charges & hours of operation. Article should read like an encyclopedic article & not a tour guide or museum website. Also, please be careful when editing within inline referenced material as it changes the facts presented by the reference. Constructive edits indlude exhibits at the museum or history of the museum, but please include references. Thanks! FieldMarine (talk) 21:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Flying Leatherneck Aviation Museum
Got your message. I'm leaving for work, but I'll respond later & would be happy to work with you on improving tha article. BTW, don't get offended if parts of your edits get eliminated on your first couple tries, sometimes its an iterative process. Your additions to the aircraft on display were excllent & very helpful, they jsut need some format work. Thanks! FieldMarine (talk) 11:49, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. No offense taken, just frustrating not knowing what the problem was.  Since I volunteer at the museum,  I had a big interest in making sure that all websites for it are accurate and up-to-date.  When I looked up the file for the museum and found only three aircraft cited,  I advised the curator and was asked to ensure that all of the exhibits were listed--we are much more than just three birds and old photos.  Just as important, the address info is badly out of date.  Tes, we are still physically located on MCAS Miramar property but, in early 2006, it was recognized that most people bypassed the museum because it required entry onto the base, so a public gate was constructed to give immediate access directly off of the public Miramar Road.  What had me confused is your caution not to include lcation info, but that info is already on the page--all I wanted to do is update it and explain that it is accessible to the general public, not just Marines.  The larger transport aircraft are on the base, proper, and I would like to explain that they need to get a visitor's pass at the main gate before they can see those planes.


 * The other big issue is getting the historial fact corrected on the role of CH-46E Lady Ace 09. She was not the last aircraft out of Vietnam.  Sister ship, BuNo 154812 call sign Swift 22, was the last one out when, in a mixup, another aircraft had to go back and get the last 11 Marines still at the embassy.  I've got the links for some Navy historical articles on FREQUENT WIND but they are not specific enough.  I also found a first-person account by a crew member of that last aircraft, found on the popasmoke.com helicopter association website.


 * What is the procedure for "references" on certain facts when they come from personal and first-hand knowledge? I recently corrected the F4D-1 Skyray page for an error stating that the 20mm cannons were mounted in the wing roots.  They are not.  In fact, they are just inboard of the outboard wing pylon, near where the wingtip folds, several feet from the wing roots, which are actually taken up completely by the intakes.  What is the reference?  Well,  I physically stand within feet of the actual aircraft on a weekly basis and, last week, I took almost 200 photos of the wheels, wheel wells, landing gear doors, wing fold mechanism and underside of our aircraft.  How should that be referenced?


 * Thanks for the help. Admittedly, I am new to edits on Wikipedia.  I started to do some a month or so ago, and got busy, forgetting some of the things that I had started to pick up.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.244.153 (talk) 00:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I read your entry on my talk page & I move them to the discussion page on Talk:Flying Leatherneck Aviation Museum. I comment there on your remarks, but let me provide a few helpful hints here first (based on my experience): Start with this & I’d be happy to answer any question. Sounds like with your knowledge, we can really make a good article. Thanks! FieldMarine (talk) 03:02, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Read the Wikipedia articles provided in the blue links above, starting with Five pillars. Wikipedia articles should read like encyclopedia articles, not homepages or tour guides for museums.  For example, would you find directions to a museum in an Encyclopedia Britannica article?  …probably not.
 * The guideline for Wikipedia is to not use it for original research. Also, you should write the article from a NPOV.  Therefore, be careful if you know a subject well as you may introduce biases or not write it from a NPOV.  As a docent for the museum, you have to be especially careful when adding material, especially when you start saying it’s the best or biggest collection, etc. without providing a real reference to that effect.
 * I highly encourage you to add pictures, but please add them to Wikimedia Commons. Wiki commons is a sister project of Wikipedia, but is a respoitory of pictures.  From there, we can add a link as a gallery of pictures.  Let me know when you add pictures to the commons & I’ll help you set that up the links.  The key in Wiki Commons is categorization of the pictures.  Once added, I'll help you categorize the first few pictures until you get the hang of it.

FLYING LEATHERNECK AVIATION MUSEUM
Thanks FieldMarine. On the issue of directions, not so much a matter of directions at this point, but the address is misleading. As currently written, it is not only inaccurate but conveys bad info. The museum is physically located at Bldg T but, when open, it is physically separated from MCAS Miramar and becomes public access separate from Miramar. If no directions can be given, then the address should be the 8500 block of Miramar Road, not Bldg T, Anderson Road.

Also, the number of exhibits is no longer just 25 vintage aircraft but 30 aircraft and eight other weapons and vehicles. That keeps getting deleted as well, and I would really like to know why, since the reference for it is in the list of aircraft and exhibits on the page.

Just so you know, I never had any intent to use my position as a docent to make claims about the museum, just to explain what is there, and I only mentioned my role there to explain that this is how I get the source info--direct participation with the planes. The factual statement that this is the world's only museum decicated specificially to Marine Corps aviation is no exaggeration. Many people incorectly believe that, because the Marine Corps Museum in Quantico has a few aircraft, that this is somehow just a west coast version of it. Not true--this is THE only one in the world. Also, the implicatoin that Lady Ace 09 was the last helo in Vietnam is clearly wrong and needs to be updated for historical accuracy.

Lots more I would like to add to the site but, frankly, with the amount of time that was already spent writing and re-writing, re-coding and getting the hang of how to do it, and then constantly getting it all wiped out, I found that it was huge penalty in time spent. To be perfectly honest, I need to update the museum's own website and the time could be better spent there if, in order to accomplish this,  I have to download entire manuals on procedure, memorize all of the constraints, and then struggle to get simple facts upated and corrected. To those whom have found the time to do so and have become experienced at working with WIKIPEDIA, it may seem quick and easy to do, but it is anything but for first-timers, and it takes an incredible amount of time.

I made several WIKIDEDIA updates on aircraft a few months back, based on first-hand knowledge of the aircraft and my own knowledge as an aviation writer and historian, most recently on the correct location of gun ports for the F4D-1 Skyray, but I never had this much difficulty or had to get this deeply involved.

As for the photos, i would like to replace what is there but it doesn't seem that even that is an easy task. Now there is mention of WIKI COMMONS, categorization, copyrights, captions, etc, etc, etc, etc. I'd like to do more but this is just too time-consuming. Unfortunately, it looks like the best approach at this time is to leave it as it is and just make all changes and updates on the museum's own website.

One thing that would greatly help if is if WIKIPEDIA had some mechanism for prompts. Now, even if I forget to put four tildes to sign off, it seems I am busted for that. There would likely be many more knowledgable and skilled contributors if this were a bit easier to wade through or if rejected work was saved for editing and discussio, rather than simply erased. As much as I would like to continue contributing, the whole thing is offputting and has me wondering why I bothered. Like I said, when I first signed up, I had other things that soaked up my time and I forgot some of the things I had read up on for procedures. Now, it seems like every attempt runs into more roadblocks and more requirements. Frankly, I will probably swear off on even using WIKIPEDIA, as I find so many errors that just beg for correction but now feel like I can't change anything, and I am not likely to return. If you wish to contact me offsite, the e-mail is inteltek@pacbell.net

WINTELTEK (talk) 04:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Invitation to attend a meetup in San Diego
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Meetup/San Diego/June 2018. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:54, 21 May 2018 (UTC)