User talk:WJBscribe/Archive 32

List of crossover thrash bands
Hello, would you be willing to restore or send me the content of List of crossover thrash bands, which was deleted along with crossover thrash after this "articles for deletion" debate? Crossover thrash has since been deemed notable and its article recreated, so the list should IMO be recreated as well.-- MA SHAUN IX 19:48, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi. I can confirm that List of crossover thrash bands does not include any information that is not already included in the recreated Crossover thrash article. WJBscribe (talk) 15:55, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks, I should've assumed so anyway.-- MA SHAUN IX 16:17, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Comment on recent absence from Wikipedia
Quick message for any talkpage watchers etc as I've been away for a few months. Nothing dramatic happening, just very busy at work. Let me know if there's anything that I have overlooked/not responded to that needs my attention - although I suspect that most things will have resolved themselves in the meantime. Best, WJBscribe (talk) 15:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha, good to see you're back! I still need your email address to get you subscribed to the global-renamers mailing list. Please email me or reply to the email I just send to you. :) Thanks in advance for the help! With regards, Trijnstel talk 17:11, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the welcome back. My email address is no secret, it's WJBscribe at gmail dot com. I'm not trying to be difficult, but is joining the list necessary? I confess I'm a big sceptic of mailing lists and would prefer communications were kept on wiki/meta as much as possible. What sort of things are discussed on the list? WJBscribe (talk) 23:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've not seen anything on the list that couldn't have been discussed on wiki (and indeed benefitted from non-bureaucrat commentary), but I suppose the fact that not all global renamers would visit meta that often is an argument in favour of the mailing list. –xenotalk 00:59, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, agree with Xeno - though the developers are subscribed too & they use the mailing list to keep the global renamers up to date about the m:SUL finalization for example. Then they should be able to reach all global renamers when needed (for example when no one should use the tool for a bit). And when you encounter a bug, you can easily contact a dev and/or staff member. Anyhow, I've added you. The list is archived, so you can read back the old discussions. Thanks for helping. :-) With regards, Trijnstel talk 13:50, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

username change for EmeraldRS
It says that you have done the change - thanks! But I can't log in with my new username, it says my account is currently being renamed or merged. Help! 80.176.153.231 (talk) 17:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Everything looks OK here. Are you still having rouble logging in? WJBscribe (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Still can't login. When I try to log-in the message says "Login error/ Your account is currently being renamed or merged./ View the status", clicking 'View the status' shows the Global rename progress with everything 'Done' except de.wikipedia.org which is 'Queued' and has been for approaching 24 hours. I get exactly the same thing at Meta, Wikisource and Commons. I have never used de.wikipedia.org and, not speaking German, probably never will. I hope you can help. 80.176.153.231 (talk) 15:19, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

It seems there was a pre-existing Emerald-wiki on deWP, this was identified by User: SiBr4 in Village pump (technical). I seem to be sitting in no man's land, unable to login and unable to choose a different username!!!80.176.153.231 (talk) 15:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Ignore the previous comment - it seems that was a red herring, and I am just stuck in a queue in DE!!80.176.153.231 (talk) 15:50, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Glad to see this now sorted. WJBscribe (talk) 23:28, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Next meetups in North England
Hello. Would you be interested in attending one of the next wikimeets in the north of England? They will take place in: If you can make them, please sign up on the relevant wikimeet page!
 * Leeds on 12th April 2015
 * Manchester on 26th April 2015
 * Liverpool on 24th May 2015

If you want to receive future notifications about these wikimeets, then please add your name to the notification list (or remove it if you're already on the list and you don't want to receive future notifications!)

Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:41, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride!
 You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!


 * What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
 * When? June 2015
 * How can you help?
 * 1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
 * 2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
 * 3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

User talk:F9T listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect User talk:F9T. Since you had some involvement with the User talk:F9T redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. The Theosophist (talk) 11:32, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much...
...for your support over at my RfA. Especially for your kind words - though I'm sure there are those with whom I have worked over the years who would dispute both "sensible" and "level-headed". :-)

I shall do my best to be worthy of the honor. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 05:37, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Workshopping bureaucrat activity requirements

 * (Message to all bureaucrats)

There is an ongoing discussion about implementing some kind of standards for administrative and bureaucrat activity levels; and activity requirements for bureaucrats have been explored several times in the past. I've prepared a draft addition to Bureaucrats that would require at least one bureaucratic action every five years to retain the bureaucrat permission.

In the past, I've been hesitant of such proposals but I believe that if the bureaucrat group as a whole is seen to be actively engaged, the community may be more willing to grant additional tasks to the position.

Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not sure if this actually applies to any of us, but if you have not acted as a bureaucrat in over five years, you might consider requesting removal of the permission or otherwise signalling that you intend to return to bureaucrat activity. –xenotalk 14:22, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

FYI: bureaucrat discussion opened

 * Message to most bureaucrats

A bureaucrat chat has been opened by Maxim at Requests for adminship/Rich Farmbrough 2/Bureaucrat discussion.

Bureaucrat discussion suggests notifying bureaucrats on their talk page as well as BN, hence this courtesy note. –xenotalk 16:45, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Bureaucrat discussion notification
I would welcome input from other bureaucrats in relation to the outcome of this RfA. Many thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) for WJBscribe (talk) 11:10, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Requests for adminship/Cyberpower678/Bureaucrat discussion


 * You know they say talking to yourself is the first sign of madness. – Steel 11:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * But I hear such charm and wonderous wisdom..! *cackles* <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:09, 10 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the note, WJBscribe. I will try to comment later on. Is there a particular reason Brion VIBBER is not in the messagelist? –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 14:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've always assumed he holds the permission for technical reasons, rather than being available to perform bureaucrat tasks. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:13, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. If it's still the case that these tools are held for necessary technical reasons, I suppose we need an exception if the activity requirements are carried. –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk
 * To be honest, I'd be surprised if Brion didn't have all elements of the bureaucrat toolset through some global permission. We could just ask him if still wants the permission (he may have forgotten he has it). <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Special:Diff/670993383
He had already withdrawn. Why did you overwrite it? Dustin ( talk ) 17:25, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The RfA ran its full course and was closed in accordance with the discussion that followed between bureaucrats, which is consistent with previous approaches. "Withdrawn" suggests that it wasn't left to run the full time. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 17:27, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

bureaucrats

 * User:Xeno, User:Avraham

I'm hesitant to start a new thread there, and this is a bit of a tangent.

I am getting an understanding that there is a concern about bureaucrats in general. I don't mean the editors. I mean, I think that due to several stages of SUL changes the user-right package and responsibilities have changed quite a bit.

My estimation is that the group was initially essentially sort of a "local sysadmin" without calling them that and with limited (though potentially potent) buttons to push. So that one didn't have to do it manually in the shell back when.

Things have quite changed, as they do.

admin is pretty much still the catch-all for any tools not given to auto confirmed. But bureaucrat is now a local mini steward, except that they also have to assess consensus of the voting/consensus hybrid that is RfA. (Am I correct that BAG does the CON there with the bureaucrat just flipping the switch at their request, like a local steward?)

Here's where I'm going with this:

I am strongly opposed to "reconfirmation RfA/Bs" for many reasons (part of what I don't like about the current discussion).

But here is a thought.

What if we just get rid of the bureaucrat user-right. That means everyone loses it simultaneously. No negativity, We thank all the bureaucrats for their long service, etc.

Then create a new user-right called something else which gives the impression of local-steward (which buttons to flip that they should be granted can be discussed) who also closes discussions related to those buttons (rfa, for example) It can be decided if this should include BAG activations, or if that should be separate user-right (Bot-activator?).

And that's that.

Those interested in actually helping out in those areas can volunteer.

And we just solved all the concerns.

I of course welcome your thoughts on this. - jc37 04:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for continuuing to brainstorm on this, but would that just effectively be forcing all 'crats to run for reconfiration? (In a roundabout way) –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 09:56, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, for one, from what I can see, my presumption is only a handful would. And second, it really would be a new user-right. as it is, the current package looks rather different than it did if we even merely go halfway back to the founding.
 * I compare this somewhat to how check user and oversight went through growing pains due to privacy and other reasons (tools several bureaucrats had at one point). I think after removing so many user-rights and adding others, this user-right package just really isn't what it was.
 * So I'm seriously suggesting creating "something else".


 * Let's look at the user-rights:


 * Create accounts with names similar to existing usernames (override-antispoof)
 * Move pages with their subpages (move-subpages)
 * Not be affected by rate limits (noratelimit)
 * Not create redirects from source pages when moving pages (suppressredirect)
 * Override the title or username blacklist (tboverride)
 * Add groups: Account creators, Flow bots, Administrators, Bureaucrats, Bots and Pending changes reviewers
 * Remove groups: IP block exemptions, Account creators, Administrators, Flow bots, Bots and Pending changes reviewers


 * Except for add and remove, all looks like leftover tools from when they could rename accounts (rate limits being a partial exception, though admins have already)..
 * And if we remove all the add/remove that admins can already do, we're left with: bot-related, add A/B and remove A.


 * And if (as I saw proposed somewhere) the bot related ones are granted to "bot activators" at BAG, then, this user-right group is essentially rfa/b closer.


 * So what I'm suggesting is to let this "name" go. Let everyone walk away with dignity. These are real people. Volunteers who, at one point at least, gave their time to the wiki. (I honestly think I'm preaching to the choir here : )


 * What we do from there, depends on what we want. Do we want a separate user0group to close RfA? Do we need it?


 * We could treat RfA like a "contentious close", and while it's going on, potential closers could volunteer at WT:RfA. And so no additional user-right would be needed.
 * Or, to go in the other direction (from dissolving bureaucrat), we could have a new user-right of local-steward, which are just button pushers (add/remove catchall of most things), who can also close the requests for said tools discussions.
 * I prefer the latter option.
 * I think it's a direction we're growing to (due to the idiosyncrasies of WP policies compared to other wmf wikis) and that WM stewards by their nature are not discussion closers.
 * But this really is growing beyond what bureaucrat currently is, hence the suggestion to deprecate the name (and associated package), allow everyone their dignity, and move forward. - jc37 10:36, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I see how your solution would more cleanly and decisively solve one of the problems identified at the RfC, but I agree entirely with Avi below. –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 20:08, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I do too, though I think we're too quick to define what a bureaucrat is "now", especially since there are those whose RfBs may have hinged on renaming... I think this is a precise moment in time where we can say "what a bureaucrat is", is in a state of flux. (See this for just one example of a community member's expectations of what a bureaucrat is - and is not.)
 * And "one of"? What others do you see xeno? I'm only seeing "fear of ineptness/misuse/abuse" all over that page. - jc37 13:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

The most important function of bureaucrats is the one they use the least, and that is to determine community consensus. Most of the time it is plainly obvious, sometimes it is not so obvious, and rarely it is so knife edge that multiple bureaucrats need to confer. Regardless of who flips the bit, some body of people have to be entrusted with making that call, and it is certainly preferred that this be a local group than a global group (such as the stewards). And isn't your 'local-steward' suggestion just bureaucrats under another name? BTW, stewards can be discussion closers when necessary for the projects who don't have local functionaries, but I digress. Therefore, even if all the other tools were removed, there would still be a need for a class of people, and almost all of us who are now in this class, have demonstrated that our judgement is trusted by the project (at least those who ran for RfB after 2004/2005, IIRC). Therefore, I don't think that summarily removing and reinstating would provide significantly more clarity. I am not adverse to considering a discussion about who should flag bots (at least non-admin bots), but I do think we need a "closers" group for RfA, and we have one already. Just my current opinion, for which, as usual, I reserve the right to change my mind if faced with convincing arguments to the contrary 8-) Sorry about th etalk page spam, perhaps we should move this elsewhere. -- Avi (talk) 13:00, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'm happy to host the discussion - do grab a chair and help yourself to refreshments :-). Just thinking about the points made at the moment. I'll chime in soon. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 15:00, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Simpler
Well, how about this as a proposal:


 * The bureaucrat user-right is immediately removed from all bureaucrats once a year. Any former bureaucrat who meets current policy requirement of activity may at any time (including "immediately") request for the user-right at WP:BN. (A steward could be on hand for this "once a year" moment.)

Again, allows dignity to all not re-asking for the tools. The biggest negatives would be increasing some logs, and the flipping of switches.

And 'as written I don't think I'd oppose this for admins either. but once people start changing the inactivity policy, I couldn't support this, as it would go hand-in-hand with the inactivity policy. - jc37 17:30, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

"Trying to pick fights"
Commenting here to avoid the RFA degenerating further, but yes, I don't think "trying to pick fights" is either unfair or inaccurate. A persistent trend—the thread I cited in the RFA and the oft-cited diff on Eric Corbett's talkpage are two examples, but there are plenty more—is this candidate either stirring up arguments that were naturally dying down, or inserting herself into reasonably calm discussions with the apparent intention of encouraging the participants to become agitated. Depending on your degree of AGF, this is either deliberately trying to provoke fights, a demonstration of a serious lack of empathy, a major lack of attention to detail or shooting from the hip without bothering to check the context, and I don't consider any of the four to be a desirable characteristic in someone with a block button.

It's perfectly possible to reconcile "assume good faith" with "trying to pick fights". Without naming names (although everyone could give their own examples) I'm aware of numerous situations where Editor A believes that Editor B is a net negative and actively tries to provoke them into doing something inappropriate to give a pretext to call for a ban, or follows their contributions obssessively looking for minor infractions in an effort to find a technical breach of policy, all the while genuinely believing that they're acting in Wikipedia's interests in so doing. I am also aware—as, I imagine, are you—of at least one recent desysopping and another recent "resignation" which was a jump-before-pushed desysopping in all but name, for precisely this kind of conduct, so it's not some obscure hypothetical which never impacts on reality. – iridescent 17:21, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

(adding) Regarding "Do we really think people would waste their time if they didn't think they were making Wikipedia better?", having spent a reasonable chunk of the last decade shooing away Mattisse and Grawp socks, I can unreservedly answer "yes" to that. "Being interested in Wikipedia" is decidedly not a synonym for "wanting to improve Wikipedia", unless you mean some philosophical question over whether the "hasten the day" notion that Wikipedia has to be made unusable before it can be killed and replaced with something better is ultimately an good faith effort. – iridescent 17:54, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the clarification. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 18:57, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

RfA
There are a lot of odd !votes at the RfA, including people who are basically inactive but have popped up to say something, but this is not one of them. Brustopher was until WP:CHUS. - Sitush (talk) 19:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Why is the rename significant? <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 19:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it isn't to you but they have made 2750 edits and have been pretty active in the recent Gamergate/gender-related/civility discussions etc, so I guess they're more active at present than, say, and perhaps more likely to have seen Liz around also because she did have some involvement in those discussions at one point. - Sitush (talk) 19:12, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we're talking at cross purposes. The oppose I queried was by Aparslet, not Brustopher. Brustopher made a comment pointing out that Aparslet had few other edits. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 19:18, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, drat. Sorry about that. - Sitush (talk) 19:21, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Those who know me are aware that I maintain an exopedian approach, and tend to edit anonymously. I am aware of far more than I choose to get involved in. Manning (talk) 09:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

RfA strikeout
New account, yes. Created to participate in the RFA, no. Participated as an IP as well (not much). If I provide it will you unstrike? I wasn't aware there's a participation threshold to vote in an RfA. Worth Overdoing (talk) 19:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but IPs are not allowed to contribute to RfAs in the support/oppose sections. There'd be little point in keeping that rule if a new account could be used. I wish you all the best, but it's not appropriate for you to use your first edit(s) to participate in an RfA. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 19:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Flyer22 (talk) 19:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been following along a lot as an IP but I didn't create the account to participate in the RfA, I created it so I wouldn't be an IP anymore and I didn't want to recover my old account. That one is identifiable to my real name, and there's too much outing/attacking that goes on offsite. I was the first IP involved with the content of and posted on AN/I about it as it had become a proxy war/WP:POVFORK for Gamergate . After the AfD was settled, I decided it was time to create a new account. Found out about the RFA the next day on Liz's talk page.  No,  I am not a sock of anyone; until 2015 I didn't post much since old account in 2005 and one-off IP comments. You can probably tell I'm pretty rusty from the errors I'm making. More free time now, need to relearn everything.  I gotta say the assumption everyone is a sock is pretty unwelcoming, and it is Liz's outgoing nature/willingness to AGF that made me want to vote in favor. I'll happily send copy of my ID to WMF or long-time uninvolved senior person (bureaucrat? Arbcon?) and you have my permission to check this IP range. As there may not be time to decide this before RFA closes, guess I don't get to vote. Pity. Worth Overdoing (talk) 01:55, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Worth Overdoing, I have a lot of experience with identifying WP:Socks or other non-new returning editors, including those using WP:Clean start validly or inappropriately, and I am usually right on such matters. I've seen every "I'm not a WP:Sock" explanation and WP:Sock trick there is, including attempts to appear less experienced at editing Wikipedia than they are. I go by my common sense and experience on such matters. Very experienced Wikipedia editors are going to initially think, or continue to think, that you are a WP:Sock, and with good reason. And as others (including me) have noted in Liz's WP:RfA, there are instances where her WP:Assuming good faith has proven problematic with regard to WP:Socks and other disruptive editors. Hopefully, she will eventually take a harder stance on that matter. Siding with and/or trying to help problematic editors is often a waste of time. Too often, in fact.


 * On a side note: There is no need to WP:Ping me to this talk page, since it's currently on my WP:Watchlist. I'll also cease WP:Pinging you to this discussion since I assume that you will check back here if you want to read replies, or that this talk page is on your WP:Watchlist. Flyer22 (talk) 04:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your taking the time to reply, but I'm afraid you are very much in error. This reminds me of a study(link) I heard waaaaaay back in the dark ages when I was in college and watched a film showing a psych ward patient at a competency hearing pleading his case and explaining that the longer he stayed locked up, the crazier he was becoming. Once he was escorted out of the hearing room, the psych immediately announced that the patient needed his meds upped and didn't say a word about letting him out. Almost every person in that lecture hall agreed the patient sounded completely reasonable, sane, lucid and competent, that his agitation was because he could see the psych ignoring what he was saying. The prof went on to show some statistics showing that the more senior a person was in their psych education (general public, college major, grad student, psych), the more likely he or she was to conclude that a sane patient (brought in as a blind test) was actually insane. Classic Type I error.


 * I suspect the same thing is happening with you, your many years sniffing out the socks have you sniffing foot odor and tossing out the entire hamper. Your comments on the RFA suggest above suggest a similar inflexible approach, doubling down by insisting that should get the tools, she should become less welcoming. Understand, I've seen sock damage on the Gamergate pages! I thought Arbcom erred by refusing to recognize or admit there was an organized off-Wiki attack using throwaway accounts, designed and weaponized to pick off "enemy" long-time editors.  So, I do understand your concern for the project, I just note your detection ability is on hyper hairtrigger.  Anyway, My editing mistakes are due to extreme lack of practice and changes to Wikipedia itself, my familiarity with some policy (obviously not enough) is due to plenty of reading noticeboards and talk pages as well as articles. I simply don't know what else to say if your only answer is to conclude the hearing and up my meds. Have a good evening. Worth Overdoing (talk) 08:00, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Worth Overdoing, I am not in error with regard to stating "I have a lot of experience with identifying WP:Socks or other non-new returning editors, including those using WP:Clean start validly or inappropriately, and I am usually right on such matters." or with regard to stating "Very experienced Wikipedia editors are going to initially think, or continue to think, that you are a WP:Sock, and with good reason." Nor am I wrong about Liz's approach to problematic editors, especially highly problematic editors. Or with regard to stating "Siding with and/or trying to help problematic editors is often a waste of time. Too often, in fact." I am flexible where it seems reasonable. If you want me to list all the times I have been correct on such matters, I will, but I see no need to brag at the moment. I did not state that Liz "should become less welcoming." I, as have others in her WP:RfA, stated that she takes WP:Assume good faith too far. And I stand by that. Flyer22 (talk) 08:30, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, I know that some people (sometimes the ones I turn out to be correct about) feel that I don't use enough WP:Assume good faith. But regarding that, I go back to what I stated about usually being right when it comes to editors I suspect are WP:Socking or editors who have proven problematic times over. The ones who have proven problematic times over usually don't change their problematic behavior. They just take breaks from it. Or, if they do change it, they move on to a different type of problematic behavior. And it's exhausting for the Wikipedia community to repeatedly give them another chance. I don't think it should take three or four tries or more before an indefinite block and/or WP:Ban is issued to such editors. Flyer22 (talk) 08:51, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

This is an interesting discussion but, Worth Overdoing, I didn't strike your vote on suspicion of sock puppetry, I did so because users who choose to edit as IPs without creating an account cannot participate in RfAs in the support/oppose column. Taking everything you say at face value, I am not going to start a precedent of allowing completely new accounts to participate in RfAs. I'm sorry if this sours your experience of contributing with an account, but I strongly suggest you park your wish to contribute to Liz's RfA and turn your attentions to another part of Wikipedia. I can say that RfAs are not a vote, and whether or not Liz becomes an admin will not turn on whether or not you are permitted to express your support in the support section. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 08:08, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * and, thank you both for taking the time to speak with me. You may have noticed that once stricken I didn't attempt to !vote again although I added comments, as you told another IP those were allowed. I really do not want to be that guy. There was a discussion on the RfA Talk page about whether a hard rule is needed so new editors know whether they are welcome on RfAs or should wait. Nothing said "new account, almost no edits, you may not !vote" so I did and got slapped. All these unwritten rules are part of the problem with IPs and newbies on an RfA or other places we aren't welcome. If I saw, say, a 30/500 rule I wouldn't have done so. Yes, I will find some other ways to help improve en:WP. For now I am going to go through some tutorials etc then find some cleanup work requested or stubs that need to become articles. My Talk page didn't get any Welcome templates, so any suggestions where to begin are most appreciated. Worth  Overdoing  07:57, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Bureaucrat discussion notification (Liz)
I would welcome input from other bureaucrats in relation to the outcome of this RfA. Many thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) for <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 12:02, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Requests for adminship/Liz/Bureaucrat discussion


 * Typo alert: "restate their suppose". - Dank (push to talk) 14:20, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you - just checking whether anyone was reading the page ;-). <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:22, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

My RfA vote
By the time I noticed your question the RfA had closed, so I hope it's ok if I respond here. Even though my account is old, I'm not an experienced Wikipedian (as is obvious from my contributions). Even though I was not contributing, I have been following article talk page discussions somewhat closely for the last nine months or so (primarily related to the Gamergate controversy and the Gender Gap Task Force). After reading contributions from many different editors of all stripes I decided that the only way to improve Wikipedia (in the sense that it's always improving -- not in the sense that it's flawed) is to actually log into my account and try to contribute. Before diving directly in, I looked at the user talk pages of editors that I noted as being combative and disruptive and also those pages of editors that I noted as working towards consensus. And it was in viewing her talk page that I noticed Liz was nominated for adminship.

Now, I did not want to jump into the RfA waters immediately, so I simply watched the page at first. I was happy to see Liz receiving such overwhelming support. It wasn't until oppose votes started to pile up that I thought I would voice my opinion that Liz is the type of editor that works toward improving the encyclopedia -- even when others are losing their cool. I did check to ensure there wasn't some sort of activity threshold needed to vote, but I see that a number of votes have been stricken since then (although it appears many of those accounts were created for the sole purpose of voting). I hope that explanation was useful. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any additional questions! Mizike (talk) 14:15, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:19, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind me answering here as well. I have been watching wikipedia for a few months doing minor copyedits trying to learn about the place before starting editing in earnest. My plan is to do some work on scandinavian history since I'm studying that at uni. I've been checking out AN, ANI, AE and similar areas and saw Liz there several times. When I came upon the RfA section her RfA had recently started and I read the well argued arguments by Bishonen and Drmies and thought I'd add an oppose vote since I felt the same way. I didn't see anything on the RfA page suggesting that it wasn't for new users. If that is the case I apologize and wil refrain from posting there in the future. Aparslet (talk) 18:35, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your answer. No need to stay away from RfA - new users are welcome, but are more likely to be asked a few questions to establish the reason for their participation, as you were. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 11:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Removing 's comment


Please explain.

Samsara 18:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * @Samsara. I realise you reverted asking this question, but actually I think you were right to point it out, thanks. I moved Avi's comment because I read it as a response to yours, but actually I think it stands alone and have restored it. I will leave the copy on the talkpage. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 18:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * My comment was as a response to Andrevan. I was running out to a meeting; my apologies for any confusion. -- Avi (talk) 19:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Well done

 * Many thanks. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 13:25, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting my page, Will :-) Wythy (talk) 18:00, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Moving Burma to Myanmar - new 2015 poll
You participated in a Burma RM in the past so I'm informing you of another RM. I hope I didn't miss anyone. New move attempt of Burma>Myanmar Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Help
Would you mind taking a look at my username request at Changing username/Simple? Thanks  The Editor of All Things Wikipedia  《Talk》 05:07, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like this has been done. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 13:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

My RfA Crat Chat
Hello, WJBscribe,

I just wanted to thank you and all of the bureaucrats who participated in the bureaucrat chat after my RfA was closed. There were a lot of votes and comments to go through along with the enormous amount of content on the crat chat talk page. I appreciate the time and care the bureaucrats took to consider all of the arguments and come to a consensus.

I never imagined that my RfA would be at all contentious or have such a big turnout. Although I hope you don't have many close call RfAs in the future, I know if you do, that Wikipedia's bureaucrats will find their way to a decision. Thank you again for your work in bringing this RfA to a close. Liz <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 18:42, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Cyclonebiskit
Hi Will,

I think you may have accidentally checked the wrong box after closing Cyclonebiskit's RfA as successful. Either that or I've really been gone too long! –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 21:50, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out. More that I forgot to check the important box! Too many user permissions these days... *grumbles* <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 21:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Bureaucrat discussions
Hi Will,

Thank you for keeping me up on bureaucrat discussions. I'm sorry I haven't been able to keep up with them in real time but am grateful for them in the hope I'll have some more time to participate. Glad to hear from you anytime! Your friend Cecropia (talk) 13:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. There are a number of discussions presently occuring around the wiki regarding, variously: RfAs, de-adminship processes, bureaucrat activity requirements, the bureaucrat role in general. You may wish to contibute to these if time allows. I likewise hope you'll have time in future to become more involved in bureaucrat matters - we miss your input. I hope all is well with you. Best, <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 11:15, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Now that some of the heat has died down, I wonder if you would consider...
I don't think your comment here was taken as you intended. I believe David Auerbach (Auerbachkeller) took it as a comment that you were accusing him of being a GamerGate supporter or having a GamerGate agenda. A literal reading of your comment doesn't support that so I am hoping that wasn't your intent. The speculation about Reddit is entirely wrong, though, and I can email you why it's wrong and what most likely attracted David to the RfA if you like. His participation on WP is largely driven by editors that discuss his work on-wiki (often negatively and personally directed at him instead of critical commentary about content) - he participated in the RfA after some of those editors participated, if that timeline helps establish "User contributions" button. Those editors participating aren't sufficiently compelling from David to participate but, coupled with the subject, it made sense. I was not surprised by any of the non-regular RfA participants as they tend to show up in bunches as they follow each other which is not prohibited behavior or canvassing. I chose not to bring it up the !vote strike at the time because one !vote wasn't going to change anything and discounting was going to be done as part of the process so a blow up over one or two comment strikes out of nearly 300 serves no purpose (I'd argue that in hindsight, there was no reason to strike it either as it only stirred the pot a bit and generated some IP generated strikes and more non-RfA interest.) Considering our article on Gamergate controversy and the association of so-called "Gamergate supporters" with misogynists, hate groups and perpetrators of rape and death threats, I think you can understand why even an inference of association or agenda can be taken as an insult. He took your comment to BLPN as it upset him enough to consider it a BLP violation instead of just a misunderstanding, NPA vio or other civility issue. David has been accused of being a Gamergate supporter so he is justifiably concerned even if the intent is not present in your comment. Even today, others have read comments made on the internet and jumped to the false conclusion that David is a Gamergate supporter but later ended up apologizing for being successfully trolled by those making false allegations. I think it would be a good faith gesture to refactor (and maybe hide) the history of the closed RfA discussion as at least an "AGF" courtesy. It won't change the count, the crat discussion or outcome but will remove some of the frustration David has experienced with WP in general and how he feels WP has portrayed him and his work. I think refactoring your "strike comment" to something like Striking !vote from sparingly used account. or something similar that removes GG and reddit references and sending a note to David might help. I view David's participation in WP as similar to Siegenthaler when he discovered the false Kennedy Assassination allegations in his bio. I would hope if Siegenthaler registered an account and !voted in Brian Chase's RfA, the comment for striking the vote wouldn't refer to a "SPA only interested in fighting Kennedy Assassination conspiracy agenda." Auerbach views his contributions largely as defending his reputation with a few article edits in between defense. I'll note that he is only defending his reputation from comments made by WP editors and misrepresentation of his work in paraphrased summaries (that editor is now site banned by ArbCom). I hope you'll consider this request and how sensitive he views it. Thanks. --DHeyward (talk) 23:39, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. I had not seen the BLP noticeboard threads - they were not brought to my attention, nor did the user raise the matter here as you have done. Some thoughts, in no particular order:
 * RfA pages are not indexed by google, so the impact on the user outside this project is minimal.
 * I remain of the view that my reasons for striking the comment were correct, and are described correctly. The account's edits are almost solely confined to the "Gamergate" subject. I did not give consideration to which side of the debate this user fell on, which was not relevant to my decision to strike the comment.
 * His comment was made shortly after the discussion was advertised on Reddit. The user appears to be familiar with that site. Whilst I accept that it is possible he came to the discussion another way, I think it overwhelmingly probable that he came to the discussion having read about it on Reddit.
 * If I used your alternative wording, Striking !vote from sparingly used account., I think this would be misleading to someone reviewing the archived RfA because: (a) it wasn't the reason I struck the comment; and (b) it would suggest that there is a rule against "sparingly used" accounts participating in RfAs, which there isn't.
 * That said, I understand the issue you raise to be that the user sees the comment that accompanied the striking of his comment as indicating bad faith. It doesn't, merely that the comment is unrepresentative of the community as a whole (being a single issue contributor whose vote strongly appeared to have been canvassed).
 * I will courtesy blank the reasons for the striking (they will remain accessible in the page history), but I am not convinced that there is a need for more than that.
 * Feel free to raise this issue for further comment, say at the bureaucrats' noticeboard, if you would like uninvolved input. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 11:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Implementation of Bureaucrats
Following a community discussion ending August 2015, consensus was reached to remove the bureaucrat permissions of users who have not participated in bureaucrat activity for three years.

Bureaucrats are expected to exercise the duties granted by their role while remaining cognizant of relevant community standards concerning their tasks. In addition to the "Inactive bureaucrat accounts" requirements, if a bureaucrat does not participate in bureaucrat activity for over three years, their bureaucrat permissions may be removed. The user must be notified on their talk page and by email one month before the removal, and again and a few days prior to the removal. If the user does not return to bureaucrat activity, another bureaucrat may request the removal of permissions at Steward requests/Permissions. Permissions removed for not meeting bureaucrat activity requirements may be re-obtained through a new request for bureaucratship.

To assist with the implementation of this requirement, please see Bureaucrat activity. Modeled after Inactive administrators and similar to that process, the log page will be created on 1 September 2015. Bureaucrats who have not met the activity requirements as of that date will be notified by email (where possible) and on their talk page to advise of the pending removal.

If the notified user does not return to bureaucrat activity and the permissions are removed, they will need to request reinstatement at WP:RFB. Removal of access is procedural only, and not intended to reflect negatively upon the affected user in any way.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * @Xeno: Should we be progressing this? I note the log page is still a redlink. Happy to help but don't want to get under foot if you have this in hand. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 10:13, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I was just holding on bot support, but the data could probably be generated manually- I've just been pretty busy off-project and not had time to move anything forward. You should feel free to do so, though. User:Madman said he could probably get coding mid-late October but wouldn't take offense if we farmed it out to someone else (here's the spec sheet: User_talk:Madman/Archive_9). Thanks =) –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 13:16, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

In passing, I note that all the bureaucrats listed above are 2004 appointments, and that no bureaucrats appointed from 2007 onwards are on the "decrat" list (we already no longer have any bureaucrats left from those appointed in 2005 and 2006). Also, it currently appears that 2015 will be the first year in which no new bureaucrats are appointed... <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:33, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We've got our special:Permalink/690186180 first draft. I was thinking of creating the log page and sending notes on 1 Dec. Make sense? –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 14:59, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. Do we have a preliminary list of which bureaucrats will get the notice? <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 16:17, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
 * At a glance Bcorr; Brion VIBBER; Cimon Avaro; Cprompt; Ilyanep; Infrogmation; Jwrosenzweig; Raul654; Secretlondon; do not have qualfying edits or actions. Cecropia had edits to BN last year here and other places, would that qualify as bureaucrat activity in your opinion? (Useight has qualifying actions on an alternate account). –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 18:38, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
 * @Xeno: If it does, I suppose it would fall under "signalling that they remain actively engaged and available for bureaucrat tasks", which one could argue he also did here. As there are already 9 being notified, we can probably give Cecropia a bit longer to return to activity? <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 14:20, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Palestine-Israel articles 3 arbitration case opened
You may opt-out of future notification regarding this case at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Notification list. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Evidence. Please add your evidence by September 8, 2015, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:43, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Usurping User:Erik
Hello, I see that you have global rename access (and have seen you around more than the others listed), and I am wondering if you could evaluate a situation for me. I used to be User:Erik from April 2007 to March 2015. Due to the global renaming, an editor on the North Frisian Wikipedia (frr.wikipedia.org) with only 205 edits and not having edited since August 2014, got that handle globally. I was forced to change to User:Erik~enwiki and later changed to User:Erik II. I am wondering if it is possible to re-evaluate this forced renaming, especially with my continued and substantial activity. Thanks, Erik II (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 19:32, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅. I've fixed what as far as I'm concerned is an obvious error in the rename script. A user on an obscure wiki (even if a sysop) with 200 edits should never have displaced a user with tens of thousands of edits to another project. Given that the other user has been inactive for over a year, I have no hesitation in reversing it. Once the rename process is complete (currently in progress), your name will once again be - I apologise for the inconvenience and thanks for bearing with us. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 23:13, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! I'm glad that was as easy as it was. It's good to be back. :) Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 03:36, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Just sending you a fist bump
...because I felt like it. Happy Saturday, WJBscribe :-)  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   06:52, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Rajkumar Kanagasingam
Some time ago you participated at Articles for deletion/Rajkumar Kanagasingam. As the article has recently been recreated, and nominated again for deletion, you are invited to participate in the new discussion at Articles for deletion/Rajkumar Kanagasingam (2nd nomination). —Psychonaut (talk) 10:48, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Category:User en-0
Of all the participants at Categories_for_discussion/User/Archive/September_2007, you're the only one who's edited this month. Since you participated there, I'd appreciate your opinion at WP:VP/Pr, which is basically a proposal to resurrect the category for the use of bots and other scripts. Nyttend (talk) 14:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:28, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Today
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Renaming spammers' accounts
In watching RC over on English Wikinews, I note a few concerning renames, one of which is yours. They're Shoecream, Dealsnshops, Geraldine SoloStocks, and Electrolux UA.

Might be a stupid question, but do blocks move with these renames? I'd be rather concerned if they don't. If someone's only contribution on enWN &mdash; with a username such as one of these &mdash; is clearly spam we'll permanently block them. Evidence of productive contributions elsewhere would likely get such blocks lifted, but as a small wiki it's worrying to think this could be a method of block evasion. --Brian McNeil /talk 17:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, blocks do move with the account if it is renamed. What's your concern with the user I renamed - (now ) if I may ask? They've never edited enWN and I couldn't see anything particularly worrying about their edits to enwiki, which go back to March 2003. <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">WJBscribe (talk) 17:26, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Just, as ever, being overly cautious. Good to know the blocks move, which was the main way I could see this being a problem. Obviously since Shoecream has never edited enWN there's no problem. It was just the concern seeing several that looked like they might've been single-purpose accounts. I asked you because - despite the caution at the top of this page - I've seen you regularly carrying out renames, and thought you'd know. --Brian McNeil /talk 18:52, 16 December 2015 (UTC)


 * }