User talk:WMrapids

Appeal request

 * please could you review the request above? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Re "While also seeing another user recommended a clean start, I am open to being banned from Venezuelan politics for a period of time"; I did not recommend a clean start. I do ask if CLEAN START has already been breached.  Did you edit under another account in Venezuela politics, before the WMrapids account entered there, with prior disagreements with NoonIcarus? Also, the behaviors have also occurred in Peruvian politics, so Latin America probably would be a better target. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  16:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That is the concern about the second account. Again, this second account was for privacy reasons and I would feel more comfortable discussing the details about this explicitly in a private manner with ArbCom if needed (It appears the second account was blocked without any additional tags to this account for a reason, since there are known privacy issues). As I said, I'm trying to be as transparent as possible due to my own privacy concerns and I emphasize that the second account was not used for deceptive purposes at all.
 * Regarding a broad Latin American political topics ban, I'm not opposed to it if necessary as I sincerely want to focus on local topics for now. However, it is clear that the serious editing issues arose with my entry into Venezuelan politics. I had actually exposed multiple sockpuppets being used in Peruvian political topics myself (see: Sockpuppet investigations/Búfalo Barreto/Archive and Sockpuppet investigations/Armando AZ/Archive), so I recognize actual misuse of multiple accounts.
 * While those accounts were used for deceptive purposes, mine wasn't. You would think that I would have been more observant about sockpuppet policy details (no interactions and providing private disclosure) due to the previous sockpuppets, but I ignorantly overlooked the intricacies of such policies and this is where I'm at. However, I have now learned my lesson. I respectively request that you can all understand my circumstances, can recognize my privacy concerns and know that my only goal is to contribute with building an outstanding encyclopedia. WMrapids (talk) 19:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello. Saw your ban when checking on an article (topic unrelated to the conflict). Hope it's still appropriate to post 2 cents. From what I see about the 2 checkuser-blocked accounts: Cases where the same topic was edited (with time difference between the two accounts, but not that long time)? - Yes. Used as "support" for a disagreement/conflict with other user/s or similar hard deceive/mislead-attempts (like double voting, circumventing)? - No. You were at least careless about the 2 accounts, since there wasn't just one topic interaction and not years apart or so (can happen as freak accident). The danger then is, others may think then the 2 accounts are different people. I believe you're sincere though when you say that you did not intent to deceive (no misleading method visible, it would for example otherwise probably have been tempting to use it as a fake supporter for the conflict with another user). Since your account is attached to some personal info, to make a 2nd more private account is believable, there might be further arguments for it. Security/Privacy is a legitimate reason according to Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry, which unfortunately here collided with the inappropriate use (contributing to same page). That's how I would weigh up the arguments. Idk how such cases have been decided here in the past. --Casra (talk) 23:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:SOCK under the privacy provision says "the account may be publicly linked to your main account for sanctions" and "If the connection is discovered, prior notification is not a 'get out of jail free card'." While I hugely respect the need for security/privacy when editing controversial topics like Nicolas Maduro, and would easily endorse the need for an alternate account in such a case, if one continues making the same controversial edits from a new account and ends up as party to an arbcase, the behaviors of all accounts are open to examination; the policy page says "users should not expect that checkusers nor arbitrators will act to conceal the connection if it is made on-wiki". If the need for security/privacy is so great (and I suspect it is), then it's not wise to continue making the same kinds of edits that led to the need for privacy in the first place. A clean start means one doesn't go right back to the same topics, same behaviors, same battles. And if they do, examination of the behaviors of the previous account is on the table. Sandy Georgia (Talk)


 * Support unblock with conditions similar to those suggested by and  above per my comment here at WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan_politics.  --David Tornheim (talk) 03:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know where the idea that I support a clean start for WMrapids came from; my point is that if an abuse of clean start is already on the table, the return to battleground should be accounted for by increasing sanctions. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  03:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Strongly support unblock - To piggyback on the comment by, I agree with conditions similar to those suggested by . There is a legitimate security and privacy concern, especially with the present political climate in relation to Venezuelan politics. I'm not too familiar with the activity or disagreements going on currently but I was disappointed to see the block because has made very insightful contributions and seems to have always been open to communication with other editors. Esequiba (talk) 13:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC) — Esequiba (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * If this account is unblocked, then any identified sockmaster should be blocked or revealed, and I don't believe that outcome to be in the best interest of the person operating the accounts. WP:SOCK permits publicly revealing prior accounts created for security reasons. I have been courteous in not initiating a public SPI, but if these behaviors continue, I might re-evaluate my decision to be compassionate. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  13:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Just a reminder that, if I understand correctly, appeal requests aren't polls.
 * If it is alright to ask, how did you learn about this block? Kind regards, --NoonIcarus (talk) 13:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I looked at their contribution history to review their recent edits and noticed the block. Most of my activity is observing recent edits to articles while logged out (I've already read the articles and so I just look at the additions or changes). Out of curiosity, I sometimes look at the recent history of users who happen to modify the articles that I edit. I've looked at yours in the past also as you edit a lot of articles that I'm interested in. Most users are like me, we are just in the background. Esequiba (talk) 15:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * They are not a poll and are based on the decision of administrators. I leave it in their hands now that they know everything and we should respect their decision.
 * Same thoughts. --NoonIcarus (talk) 17:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * My two accounts have been blocked. I respectively ask you to avoid gravedancing and to let the administrators make their decision. Don't worry, you won't see me editing in the same topics going forward (especially if I stay blocked haha).
 * As for the involvement of other users in this discussion, I can't explain this. I will be deliberately avoiding Latin American topics for the foreseeable future, so users shouldn't expect any future involvement on my part. I have always valued my privacy and well-being more than some political POV. WMrapids (talk) 17:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @WMrapids can you please clarify exactly what you mean by a privacy reason for having the second account? Do you mean that because others wouldn't have known that it was you that was making the edits that they wouldn't subjected the edits being made by your second account to the same level of scrutiny as they would have if they would have known it was you? Is that what you mean by privacy? TarnishedPathtalk 14:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It was related to this account being used for local editing and the second account shortly being used for political topics. As I became more interested in political topics, my intention was to have my main account for local edits only where I could be less careful about who I am and the second account that was separate from where my location is in order to maintain privacy. I do not have any other active account. ArbCom has since been notified about all of the details and I'm leaving it in their hands, respectively. Honestly, if I continue to be blocked, I understand and recognize ArbCom's decision since after reviewing all of the details provided, they have reached that this would be the best outcome for the project. WMrapids (talk) 16:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

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 * Retagged as PD-textlogo, should be SVGified and moved to Commons. – dudhhr talkcontribssheher 21:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Proposed decision in the Venezuelan politics case posted
Hi WMrapids, in the open Venezuelan politics arbitration case, a remedy or finding of fact has been proposed which relates to you. Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on your talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz talk to me &#124; my contributions 17:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Response to proposed decision
Thank you for doing your best to include me in this strenuous process. I'm grateful that you all have taken the time to review this complicated matter and sincerely apologize if my behavior has ever been disruptive towards your decisions or to the project in general. In my response, I no longer want to speak on the behavior of others as I have already shared what was necessary and do not want to perpetuate conflict. I will, however, respond to the proposals regarding my account and comment on each point that mentions my account name. Also, I will share my opinion on why I now believe Venezuelan political topics should be considered a contentious topic.

PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT

Locus of the dispute: I do not believe that edit warring and similar conflicts regarding Venezuelan politics began with NoonIcarus and I. You can see the discussions, ANIs and other warnings from the past, all prior to this more recent dispute, evidences that Venezuelan politics is clearly a contentious topic with its highly-polarized nature and the war of truths/untruths being waged by both sides. The conflict between NoonIcarus and I was only a more-severe symptom of the illness that Venezuelan political topics have been suffering for nearly two decades now.

Dispute resolution: It seems that we have all made attempts at dispute resolution at some point. On my part, I have attempted using the third opinion process, used the dispute resolution noticeboard and personally plead for an agreement on a talk page. Moving forward, if unblocked, I assure the community that I will do my best to utilize every appropriate measure of dispute resolution in order to avoid disrupting the project.

Use of multiple accounts: Yes, I had a second account that violated sockpuppet policies. Even if my intentions were only for privacy and the account was not used for malicious reasons, it does not excuse such behavior. Personally, I take this as a learning experience and assure the community that I will not use a second account.

WMrapids' behaviour: I will acknowledge that my behavior was not acceptable in some circumstances, especially in my initial interactions with users while discussing Venezuelan topics during my first few months editing on the subject. Especially regarding SandyGeorgia, I ignorantly overlooked some of their personal issues in discussions and did not know about their editing difficulties with a keyboard (when I made this suggestion for us to both take a break to lower the temperature). Regarding both NoonIcarus and SandyGeorgia, I vented to both of them in November 2023 about my concerns with their editing behavior (NoonIcarus and SandyGeorgia. Looking back, of course they would be defensive and be offended, but at that time I was genuinely trying to get these feelings off my chest and share my concerns. Telling them I meant no offense does not excuse the matter and I hope both of them accept my apology. These cases provided are some of the bigger missteps that I made with these two and in no way was I trying to intimidate as some have suggested. I apologize for any offensive behavior committed by me towards other users and I believe that my use of the dispute resolution processes above shows that I have been attempting to be increasingly collaborative more recently.

PROPOSED REMEDIES

Contentious topic designation: I do believe that Venezuelan politics should be a contentious topic due to its highly-polarized nature, its history of edit warring, its subjection to misinformation and other concerns that were shared in private correspondences with the Arbitration Committee and the English Wikipedia CheckUser team. After initially rejecting the proposal, it is clear that a contentious topic designation would provide more rigid sanctions that would heighten the topic's standards, set expectations on behavior/interactions and would encourage dialogue amongst users, promoting collaboration instead of conflict.

WMrapids banned: After reflecting on my behavior and my unintentional violation of having a second account, I believe that I can still be beneficial for the project by avoiding contentious topics. As shared previously, I want to focus more on local topics and put all of this behind me.

WMrapids unblocked with a one-account restriction: I have no problem with being restricted to only one account and you can proceed to enact this restriction if you believe it is necessary.

WMrapids topic banned: Again, I have no problem with being topic banned from Venezuelan topics and even if I am not topic banned, I do not foresee participating in the topic moving forward.

WMrapids revert restriction: The main edit warring/reverting concerns were between NoonIcarus and I. While I personally do not believe that I will engage in edit warring since I will avoid controversial topics, if you believe this would support my editing behavior and the project, then I will accept the restriction. My main concerns with the 0RR would be me reverting obviously inappropriate edits and disagreements on topics with very limited editor involvement, though I suppose I could reach out with dispute resolution procedures for the latter and cross that bridge when it comes for the former.

Interpersonal issues/Interaction ban: I have no problem with the interaction ban. I even proposed a more lax version of the interaction ban for NoonIcarus and I months ago in an attempt to deter edit warring. For the record, if this is the last time I can mention NoonIcarus on the project, I want them to know that I don't hold any negative personal feelings or animosity towards them and I apologize if my participation in past disputes with them caused any disruption. NoonIcarus is a knowledgable editor and even if we have disagreements, I want them to know that.

CONCLUSION

In summary, I apologize for my misbehavior and the use of a second account; my exit from controversial topics should resolve both of these problems (no edit warring and no need for a second private account without controversy, even though the cat is out of the bag). I have no desire to continue editing Venezuelan topics since it has only resulted in negative consequences. Recognizing that I am currently indefinitely banned, I want ArbCom to know that they will not regret the decision of unblocking my account. Again, thank you ArbCom for doing your best to remedy this messy situation, for taking your time to be thorough and for allowing me to be somewhat involved in this process. Recognizing that your main focus is on the future of Wikipedia, I will accept and respect any decision you make.

Thank you --WMrapids (talk) 20:40, 11 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I have copied your comments to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Proposed decision. Dreamy Jazz talk to me &#124; my contributions 08:23, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

More comments by WMrapids
While I don't see myself editing the same topics as NoonIcarus in the future, I agree with what says about the "first-mover advantage" when it comes to interaction bans. Additional restrictions should always be considered if an interaction ban is enacted.--WMrapids (talk) 14:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Also,, not sure if this was intentional due to the talk page process and since it was a reply to David Tornheim, but should you change the section title of "Comments by David Tornheim" over Allan Nonymous' comments to "Comments by Allan Nonymous"? Just trying to help!--WMrapids (talk) 14:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I have fixed this. Dreamy Jazz talk to me &#124; my contributions 19:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Nice statement
Hi I just wanted to say I think your statement at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics/Proposed decision was very nicely, thoughtfully and graciously written. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:06, 12 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you! WMrapids (talk) 14:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Moving forward
As it seems that I will remain blocked for the time being, I want to share that I accept ArbCom's decision. No matter my rationale of maintaining privacy, my actions were inexcusable and disruptive. If I were truly concerned about my privacy, I should not have participated in such a controversial topic in the first place, so this is on me and I apologize for consuming their time.

During this time, I will reflect on whether or not I want to appeal my indefinite account block. Regarding my other blocks (topic and interaction), I will never appeal those blocks and will never make any other account to participate in such topics. Moving forward, I am going to be focusing on providing images and files on Wikimedia Commons, trying to be as useful as possible for the project in a less controversial manner.

Overall, I believe ArbCom made the best decision they could make given the evidence presented and I am hopeful that things will begin moving in the right direction.--WMrapids (talk) 22:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Questions
I am pinging you since it appears that ArbCom may be assuming my ban?

I do have a question; will I be able to ping other users on my talk page to suggest images or files for them? For instance, to place a certain image in an infobox or to provide an update, would I be able to contact a recent editor or a member of a WikiProject? I only want to be making appropriate contributions, so I would appreciate an answer on this.--WMrapids (talk) 22:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * A site ban prohibits all edits except those to appeal your ban. In the case of Arbitration Committee bans, these are also set to disallow talk page access because the appeal method is via email. Therefore, asking for others to make edits is not allowed and could violate the the policy on proxy editing. Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">Jazz</i> talk to me &#124; my contributions 08:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @WMrapids, recently a blocked editor (Sennalen) lost their talk page access for WP:PROXYING amongst other things. The proxying wasn't the complete story for why they lost their talk page access but it certainly was a large part of it. Another editor took the talk page access block to WP:XRV to appeal it on behalf of the blocked editor and the block was endorsed. Given this recent example I'd probably advise against it. <b style="color:#ff0000;">Tar</b><b style="color:#ff7070;">nis</b><b style="color:#ffa0a0;">hed</b><b style="color:#420000;">Path</b><b style="color:#bd4004;">talk</b> 10:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the quick response. I'll probably still contribute through Commons and won't make any suggestions to other editors. Again, just asking because I want to respect all policies and don't want to be disruptive.--WMrapids (talk) 15:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Venezuelan politics case closed
The arbitration case Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the case page. The following remedies have been enacted:


 * is indefinitely banned from Wikipedia. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
 * is topic banned from Venezuelan politics, broadly construed. This restriction may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
 * and are prohibited from interacting with or commenting on each other anywhere on Wikipedia, subject to the ordinary exceptions. This restriction may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">Jazz</i> talk to me &#124; my contributions 12:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Discuss this at: