User talk:WVhybrid

'''Establishing the TalkPage for a new account. WVhybrid 02:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)'''

Welcome!
Welcome to the Wikipedia

I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:


 * Foundation issues
 * Tutorial
 * Cleanup resources
 * Help desk
 * Five pillars

If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~. Be bold!  young  american (talk)


 * The above message is a generic template, and I see that you have some of those things down pat, but it does have some helpful stuff. Anyways, good to have another editor on board that is interested in WV articles.  young  american  (talk) 01:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Every little bit helps.  young  american  (talk) 02:04, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello there :) Great contributions to West Virginia as a whole. Do you know if there is a page dedicated to the Hatfield-McCoy trail system? I linked to a proposed page on Corridor G if none exists.  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 01:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that was what I was looking for! As for Beech Fork State Park, I don't have any current photos of that. Next time I am in the area I can try and grab one.  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 03:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Robert Milligan McLane
John Kenney added the list to the article with this edit. I merely noted the fact that McLane was DNC chairperson after noticing it on the list when I was expanding his biography. You'll have to ask him where he got the list from, because I can't seem to find it on Google. --tomf688 (talk - email) 22:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The hoax template thing
Did everything work itself out ok?  young  american (ahoy-hoy) 12:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Blackwater River (West Virginia) - thanks!
Hi WVhybrid, sorry I didn't respond to your earlier message (I'm easily distracted sometimes...) But big thanks for adding the great information to the Blackwater River article! I made a few very minor changes just now, mostly just adding a few wikilinks and taking a few away, but the information is useful and interesting and solidly-sourced, and I'm very appreciative of the addition. --Malepheasant 04:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Audra
Here ya go: http://www.audrastatepark.com/recreation.html

I hope this helps. Feel free to rewrite my mention of the remnants, if so desired. Cheers.  young  american (ahoy-hoy) 12:05, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries. Not too long after you dicussed "foot in mouth" (which you were not guilty of btw, you just spotted a needed citations), I suffered from a serious case of said disease over naming conventions.  young  american  (ahoy-hoy) 00:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

New River Trail
I'm a bit occupied in the Grand Canyon trail articles at the moment. What I looked up was nice, though and would make a good article. We need more thru-trails, on Wikipedia and on Earth! Notary137 05:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Catbird seat
Hi, I think you should still list whatever webpage you found about his daughter on Talk:Catbird seat; maybe others can dig up the reference. Cheers, AxelBoldt 19:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hawks Nest State Park
I think the redirect actually led to Hawk's Nest, West Virginia. It was decided long ago that there need not be an article on both the location and the state park, and that the best place for an article was at Hawks Nest. However, people started writing other articles on other places that happened to be called "Hawk's Nest" and whantnot. I still tend to think that there only needs to be one article to cover both the state park and its location, but I am totally open to revisiting the discussion over where it should be located. Cheers and keep up the good work on WV articles.  young  american (ahoy-hoy) 12:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Cropped image of your image
I wanted to let you know I have made a modified copy of one of your photos (Glade Creek Grist Mill.jpg). The cropped image will be eventually used as a clickable button on List of West Virginia state parks, that will click through to your original image description page. I cropped the image to fit it in the list table I am creating. You can see a draft version at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WVhybrid/My_own_sandbox. The cropped version of your image can be seen on the irow for Babcock. State Park. WVhybrid 23:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Wonderful work so far! I'm glad my photo has found its use in a West Virginia-related article! Keep up the great work :) —UED77 17:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Stonewall Jackson Lake photo
Nice picture of the dam at Stonewall Jackson Lake.

By any chance do you have any nice photos of the state park? If so, would you mind posting one at Stonewall Resort State Park? Thanks. WVhybrid 00:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't have any photos of Stonewall Jackson Resort SP, but I do have a number of photos of other West Virginia state parks, forests, and lakes that I'm working to upload.

BMPowell 19:18, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Beech Fork SP
I haven't been ignoring you, I just don't make it out that way too much. But I'll see what I can do in the next few weeks about snapping a pic. Cheers.  young  american (ahoy-hoy) 13:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Audra state park
I thought they deleted a bunch of stuff too at first, but upon careful examination, there was no deletion, just moving some text that LOOKED like deletion due to the red markup in comparing versions. They basically made a new paragraph and clarified a word or two.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 22:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your message
I'm assuming it's appropriate to write here -- please forgive me if it is not, and chalk it up to ignorance, not malice. (There seems to be a lot of "first contact" going on here, at least on my part). I wanted to thank you for your message from earlier today. As is quite obvious, I am not well-versed in the ins and outs of Wikipedia communication (as well as other more technical aspects of the website). I have in the past resisted getting to know these ins and outs, preferring to treat the website as strictly a user-editable online encyclopedia. Nevertheless, as I've said before I respect the overall venture and as such I will try a bit harder to familiarize myself with the conventions attending Wikipedia generally.

As instructed, I'm leaving a four-tilde signature with the hope that I'm at least doing that the right way. 71.224.218.188 04:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Beech Fork SP
The images have been taken. I need to sort them out, and then I'll upload a couple of the best. Cheers.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 20:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

State park list
Has it had a peer review yet? They know more about featured standards than I.

BTW, the Beech Fork SP pics are up.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 02:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Does WV have a designation for "state parks" and "state resort" parks like Kentucky? The latter indicating that it has overnight lodging...  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 04:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Beech Fork pics
Touch them up if you wish, just don't make them look fake or too touristy. I'm a fan of warts-and-all realism, especially on Wikipedia.

Alos remeber that they are on the Wikimedia Commons and not on Wikipedia, so fix them up over there.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 14:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just found it. It looks great. If you wish, you can upload it under the "new version of the file" on the original photo. This will prevent having the commons cluttered with two nearly identical images.  young  american  (ahoy hoy) 14:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Done
I've uploaded your touched-up image at the original name (I have also given you credit for your touchup) of my old, bland versions and changed the links back to it. I have also put the "image A"s up for deletion as they are now redundant.

I did notice one minor point, however. I exclusively license my images on the GFDL and nothing else. Please do not add creative commons licensing to any of my photos, even if you do touch-ups on them, as I a pretty sure that I am still the author and it is still my call (I could be wrong about that however. Even if I am correct, I politely ask you to respect those wishes as professional courtesy).

So anyway, what did you use to touch the photo up? It is, quite frankly, awesome.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 14:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries. So back to my question: what software makes them rock like that?  young  american  (ahoy hoy) 23:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You already answered. :P I was scrambling to get the bird in before it flew away. I've got other pics that had the bird at a better angle, but didn't look as nice otherwise.   young  american  (ahoy hoy) 23:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The 2000 Campaign
Why did you delete the nominations section of the article? It was important.

copyvio
Post the link to the article and to the source from which it was ripped off and I'll check it out.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 00:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done.  young  american  (ahoy hoy) 02:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Chirality
I left a note on my talk page, with best wishes, --Smokefoot 13:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Pink Bridge Incident
Someone slapped up an AfD saying it was "per nom". Comments are welcome at Pink Bridge Incident. Thanks,  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 15:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your support! It is well appreciated and noted. Cheers  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 05:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Go for it.
An AfD would certainly be a good idea.  young  american (ahoy hoy) 00:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Famous People from South Shields
I thought the references you wanted were to justify the notability of the person and I don't understand the reference system you are using. There's no need to get so personal. Pages like this one are pointers to other pages regarding these individuals and this page has always been well policed in the past, but if you want to spend time referencing every single person on it, that's fine, I have better things to spend my time on. Anyway, a better reference for Corbett Cresswell is http://forum.southshields-sanddancers.co.uk/boards/viewtopic.php?p=77565&sid=e71614c422218dfe8cb18fd37fdd3631. I'll let you put it in if you wish. lawsonrob 20 December 2006, 20.38

Thanks for your help on WV Related ships.
See if you can drum up another support please on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_27#Category:US_State_Related_Ships --71Demon 22:17, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have work on articles quite often. I took a long break because I got fed up with bad editors.  To much time is wasted on Wiki defending things by people that find it easier to put of an afd, then to do research and contribute. --141.157.157.105 19:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Prodding
Hi, thanks for your work on this. Can you please not leave the articles uncategorized after prodding? I believe you're getting at least some of your prods from the uncategorized lists. Thanks. Akihabara 04:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Sheila Graber
Re your inference that a birthplace requires a citation on Sheila Graber, this is quite simply wrong. Do you think that Fred Dibnah needs a citation to says he's from Bolton, or Paul McCartney to says he's from Liverpool? No. Please stop inserting citation requirements where they are not needed, it reduces the credibility of the site for a casual reader - These tags should be used where there is genuine reason to suspect that the fact is incorrect, controversial or blatently fraudulent. lawsonrob 21:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello LawsonRob-you seem to take a great (if somewhat negative)interest in myself and my work - maybe you'd like to e-mail me directly please. I'm now living in Southern Ireland - although of course this is not relevant.

Category US State Related Ships
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_January_4#State_ship-related_categories as soon as the cfd was removed, some one started abusing there power and put it back up. Please put your vote to keep thread up again. Once a cfd is removed, they should have to wait 6 months to put it back. This is nothing more than abuse because somebody didn't get their way. --71Demon 20:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

User Box
People that live along the border get the contrast. --71Demon 16:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Pullman Square
Pullman Square has been nominated as a good article nominee. If you wish, you can review the article and make an input; your help may push it to A status! Cheers,  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 02:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park
As we work on the WV state park pages, we should settle on how we want to treat the name for the park at Stonewall Jackson Lake. The park was originally just Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park and that is still technically its legal name. Once they built they resort, they started marketing it as Stonewall Jackson Resort State Park and now it is being marketed as Stonewall Resort State Park. The sign at the front of the park along US 19 (in the photo we have in the article) says Stonewall Resort at Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park.

I'm thinking we should refer to the park by its legal name, Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park. What do you think?Brian Powell (talk) 02:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

WV to-do stuff
Consider working on some articles for WMAs. The WV protected areas template has too many red links in that section. Also check out the contributions of User:Bmpowell, as he has really taken the point on protected area articles.  y'  am'can (wtf?) 00:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Resort" in State Park Names
I've noticed we're inconsistent on if we include "Resort" on the name of state parks in the list. I'm thinking we should either always include the word or never include it. What do you think? Brian Powell (talk) 20:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Elevation Lookups
I found a better tool for doing elevation lookups by lat/long. EarthTools.org has a web-service that will do lookups using NASA/USGS data. This is the same underlying dataset that topocoding.com uses for the Google Maps plugin I've been working with up until now.

I added a link for the new tool to the GeoHack tool that comes up when you click on a coordinates link in Wikipedia. It's towards the end. The data has decent resolution - about 270 feet horizontally. For exact peaks and low spots the real USGS topos are probably going to be better, but for most stuff this tool should do the job and it'll go a lot faster.

Do you think I should make a template for linking to the height data, sort of like Template:gnis for GNIS location data? Brian Powell (talk) 21:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Better USGS Elevation Lookups
I figured out how to interact directly with the USGS Elevation Query web service. I've added a link to the GeoHack tool that will pool the data from there using whichever dataset the USGS service determines is most accurate. Since this data is pretty much "straight from the horses mouth" and the results will even tell you which dataset it used, I'm inclined to use this instead of EarthTools.

For specific high/low points, going from a topo map would probably still be better but I think the results here are going to pretty close to dead-on, at least the best we're going to be able to get electronically. Brian Powell (talk) 16:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

USGS Topos
I have to things I found out about the USGS topos I wanted to pass along:
 * There is a cite template we can use for referencing the maps. This example is populated for the Reddish Knob quadrangle:


 * USGS now appears to have the most-recent topos available as PDF scans directly online. (I had been working from WVGIS scans before, which were a little bit older.  Go to http://store.usgs.gov and click on "Map Locator and Downloader."  What's really neat is that the maps are geo-registered.  If you install the GeoPDF toolbar for Acrobat, you can grab the lat/long coordinates from anywhere in a map by hovering over it.  I figure this should help in figuring out highest/lowest points for the Geoboxes.

Brian Powell (talk) 21:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

WMA pics
Wildlife pics will work as great placeholder images 'til one of us gets to a given WMA.  y'  am'can (wtf?) 22:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Cacapon Resort
I added some photos for Cacapon Resort State Park that I took yesterday. Brian Powell (talk) 23:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

WV parks list
I replied on the peer review - User:Dincher, User:VerruckteDan and I were the main editors on List of Pennsylvania state parks so you may want to ask for their feedback on the peer review too. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to take a look. I'll let you know what I think, shortly. Dincher (talk) 22:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My comments are posted at the PR page. Keep up the good work! Dincher (talk) 23:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, bigger pics would be better. The Glade Creek Grist Mill pic is so good at the top, that it just doesn't look right cropped. Do you have another pic of the same park? The other pics in the columns look fine, I like the pic of Chief Logan. He raised some fuss in Pennsylvania as well. Dincher (talk) 00:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) I think if you are concerned about the cropped thumbnails it is fine to mention it in the FLC nomination. If you look at the PA state parks list, we brought up the image galleries for the same reason. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 00:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Former Grandview SP
Can a free pic be found of the area that was in the former SP? A thumb of said area would be a nice touch for the list.  y'  am'can (wtf?) 13:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have some pics from the Grandview overlook and probably some general ones of the park (as part of NRG) if helpful. Brian Powell (talk) 13:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there an article for Grandview? Should we make a little table for former state parks, as the Penns. list has?WVhybrid (talk) 22:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't hurt.  y'  am'can  (wtf?) 22:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Panther
I just found out that Panther State Forest is now Panther Wildlife Management Area. I moved the page but its text still needs updated. Brian Powell (talk) 05:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Motto of the day
Hello, I notice you're using one of the motd templates, run by Motto of the day. You may have noticed that some of the mottos recently have been followed by a date from 2006, or on occasion simply "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". The reason for this is that Motto of the day is in some very serious need of help. Participation in the project, which has never been especially high, has dropped considerably over this past summer, to the point we have had several days where no motto was scheduled to appear at all. Over the past several weeks, I've been the only editor scheduling mottos at all, but there aren't enough comments on some of these mottos to justify their use. If we do not get some help - and soon - your daily mottos will stop. In order for us to continue updating these templates for you, we need your help.

When you get a chance between your normal editing, could you stop by our nominations page and leave a few comments on some of the mottos there, especially those that do not have any comments yet? This works very simply; you read a motto, decide whether or not you like it, and post your opinion just below the motto. That's it - no experience required, just an idea of what you personally like and what you feel reflects Wikipedia and its community. If you do have past experience with the project, then please close some of the older nominations once they've got a decent consensus going. There are directions on the nominations page on how to do this.

If you have any questions, please let me know, or post on the project's talk page. I'm looking forward to reading your comments on the suggested mottos, and any additional suggestions you'd like to make. Until then, happy editing! Hers fold  (t/a/c) 01:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: Image:KSF Entrance.JPG
Image:KSF Entrance.JPG is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:Image:Kanawha State Forest - Entrance Sign.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 22:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * File:Stonewall Jackson Lake.JPG is now available as Commons:File:Stonewall Jackson Lake.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I was the one who made the transfer. I also created a square derivative of the photo to go with the updated List of West Virginia state forests page. Brian Powell (talk) 22:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice work on the state forest list. I suppose I should learn how to use bots, but I haven't done that yet. I'm still working on the WMA's; only 22 to go --- arrrgh. On another note, I need to beef up the lead paragraph on the state park list, something I've put off for months now. WVhybrid (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Responded
to you on my own talk page. Shii (tock) 20:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank You
I look forward to helping with WikiProject WV. Anna; helping educate the world; (= (talk) 23:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou
After a couple of eMails to the state's lead Archeologist & the fellow who wrote the name thing's teacher, I have researched since last Spring (off & on) and found no connection to the tribe over 1000 miles away on the northern shore of South America. For a student to declare this is un-becoming of an otherwise creditable student according to an eMail from one of his profs. I found a very close spelling of the fonics in Asia, Far East too. Ofcoarse, these people has no connection to our region... Phonics... It's something of a local insult to the descent still here in the Kanawha Region. Atleast, now, by your kind attention, I can quit searching why this good student wrote that. I've found nothing to support this. I was raised up on a lttle Upper-most Cherokee dialect and Mingo-Mohawk. Those of us who speak atleast the bare minimum can easily translate, Kanawha from the Canawagh of the old Kanaugha Village (circa 1747), here. So indeed, I kindly thankyou for the attention, Rick Conaughy (talk) 23:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation for Kanawha
The Citation you have is as good as it gets, from WVU! Following is some supporting knowledge that could also be used to support the state's University history articles.

Allen Eickert; W.J.Jacobs "The Appalachian Indian Frontier" containing "The Edmond Atkin Report and Plan of 1755" contains documention (1747) of the Canawagh-Jesuit Mohawk village opposite the Mouth of the Kanawha, still called todya's Kanaugha, Ohio.

Captain Hanson in April of 1774. While on the Kanawha River and quoting from his journal: "18th. We surveyed 2,000 acres (8.1 km2) of Land for Col. Washington, bordered by Coal River & the Canawagh..." Mr Hogg was one of the 1st "contractors" to hire the local Kanawha Cherokee-Canawagh, thoroughly mixed people by this date, on the east side of the Kanawha Valley. This 14 mile stretch was from about from Elenor to Buffalo, WV. Some of the earlier clan of George Croghan (King Hendrick's Mohawk daughters) had also married into these Fur Trade Canoe Porters for the Colonies by the 18th Century.

Reverend Johann Gottlieb Ernestus Heckewelder (1743-1823) was the Moravian missionary who lived with the Ohio Delaware and some associated tribes on the Muskingum River in the late 18th century. He came to believe the "Kanawhans" were identical to Conoy tribe and believed the Kanawha River was named after them. Heckewelder based this on many conversations with his congregation of Algonquian ethnonyms through the years. To quote Hodge, "Although Brinton calls this "a loose guess," the names Conoy, Ganawese, etc., seem to be forms of Kanawha. The application of the same name to the Piscataway tribe of Maryland, and to the river, is difficult to explain by any other theory than that the former once lived on the banks of the Kanawha." Anthropologist James Mooney wrote that it is likely the Piscataway Nation was "a collective term for several small tribes west of Patuxent, including, probably, the Moyaones referred to by Captain Smith" in context of the later term, "Conoy".

Baron Graffenried, in 1711 during Queen Anne's War which ended with the Treaty of Utrecht (1713), made a friendship treaty with the "Canawest" on the Potomac River about fifty miles up-stream from present Washington, D.C.. It was about this time the Haudenosaunee began organizing villages inland the Mid-Atlantic region resulting an acculturation of tribes by language and heritage. This was an attempt at segregation of subject tribes on as near as possible to the original or traditional tribal territorial land. For encroaching colonial settlement, this concept was politically supported by both French and English authority with the idea of "policing" local uprisings. The Iroquois assigned Canawest, Nanticoke and Conestoga lands at "Conejoholo" on the Susquehanna River. The village of "Canoog" was several leagues canoe trip above "Fort Susquehanoag" according to a number of early maps. It was by 1742 the "Canawest" of the Iroquois' acculturation period was pronounced "Conoy" by the English colonists. The Messawomeke had earlier portered goods to Kent Island, upper Chesapeake Bay during the ealy half 17th Century from the Kanawha Valley via Potomac & sometimes to James Town via James River before Col Woods of the Petersburg-Richmond Virginia showed up in the latter half of the Century.

Quoting Hodge, "At that time they (Conoy) numbered only about 150, and, with their associate the Nanticoke and Mahican, were dependent on the Iroquois", namely the Mohawk known earlier as "Keepers of the Eastern Door." Theyanoguin (King Hendrick) means "the western door is open," otherwise the Ohio country which includes the Upper Ohio Valley tributaries. Concerning Kanawha Valley settlers, the word "Conoy" is a derivative in the Nineteenth Century as said by some local West Virginian "acquaintances" with western Virginia "Shawnee" (Le Tort's clan), "Cherokee" and "Mohawk" mixed by then. Captain Hanson, among others of few documented, called these mixed people "Canawaghs" in the latter Eighteenth Century. "Ka(h)nawha" derives from the region's Iroquois dialects meaning "water way" or "Canoe Way" implying the metaphor, "transport way", in the local language. The grammar of the "hard H" sound soon dropped out as new arrivals of various European languages developed West Virginia.

"...In my Letter of the 24th. Instant, I mentioned the arrival of thirteen of our Caghnawaga Friends (Hanson's Canawagh); They honored me with a Talk to-day as did three of the Tribes of St. Johns and Pasmiquoddi Indians; Copies of which I beg leave to inclose you. I shall write General Schuyler respecting the Tender of Service made by the former, and not to call for their Assistance, unless he shall at any time want it, or be under the necessity of doing it to prevent their taking the side of our Enemies...", George Washington to Continental Congress, January 30, 1776.

Kanawha Etymology: Iroquois (Tuscarora, Mingoe & Canawagh otherwise a local mixed Mohawk Clan) call the Kanawha River, Kahnawáˀkye meaning "waterway" (transport-way) and "kye" is augmentive suffix. In this context, it renders "Much Transport Way", else "Big Waterway." kaháwa' is a noun phrase and means "boat" (canoe). It varies with kahôwö'. Uhíyu' is a verbal nominal meaning the Ohio River or the state of Ohio. It belongs to the semantic field places. Etymology [u]- NsP/I prefix, -(i)h- /river/, -íyu- /be good, beautiful/, -' Noun suffix. Literal translation is "the beautiful river". Conaughy (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Sand Hill Wildlife Management Area
That's a funny lookin' turkey on the side :-) --Mr. Vernon (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in (Monongalia County,) West Virginia
I'm not clear what you mean: are you saying that you wish I'd not moved the list of the Monongalia County properties that are on the National Register of Historic Places from the statewide list into their own list — i.e. this edit? Please pardon me if my words sound somewhat unhappy, as I'm not; I'm just a little confused. Please tell me if I've misunderstood your message.

If this is what you meant: this is actually a common practice, as you can see with similar lists such as Kansas, Michigan, and Ohio. There are two reasons for this: (1) including all listings for all counties makes the page so large that it takes ages to load, and (2) if we have tables like this for all counties, we'll have enough templates that there's a problem with the MediaWiki software. For an example of what I mean, see this version of the Kansas page — when I made this edit, I had just finished placing all the listings in Kansas into tables, and I didn't understand what would happen. In short — if we have all the listings on the page, it's literally too big.

To answer your final question — I moved Monongalia County because it was ready for its own table. Cabell County, of course, isn't as ready as Monongalia County (or Berkeley and Jefferson Counties) was. Unless something unusual happens, counties such as Cabell will be split out to their own pages, like these other three, for the sake of simplicity. I don't know if we'll go as far as Pennsylvania, but that page is a good example anyway — it's not just a directory of county lists.

If you disagree with this whole process, go to the talk page for the National Register of Historic Places wikiproject and bring it up there. Nyttend (talk) 03:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries, I wasn't upset. Not having met you before, I was (and still am) assuming that you're someone who doesn't work much with NRHP stuff outside of West Virginia, so you'd not encountered this kind of procedure or seen how it was done halfway across the country.  As you can see, I hope to put everything else into tables; currently, 43 of the 55 counties (I'm hoping that my numbers are correct; at least it's the vast majority) have them.  Believe me, I don't work much with West Virginia, so I'm sure there are things you've worked with that I'd find rather confusing :-)  Nyttend (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Michael Collins
Hi, thanks for the kind words about my Michael Collins revert. I don't believe the same issue applies to the remaining two pieces in the IPC section.

The Boosh thing seems to be a very minor comedy team that did some song that was not even released and that, at least from what we can tell from the proposed edition, made no significant commentary on Collins. That seems strikingly minor to me.

In contrast, the other two IPC entries offer significant commentary. The Tull song is a reflection on how Collins may have felt being alone in the CM while Armstrong and Aldrin were so much in the public eye; and the manga reference is an interesting commentary on Collins's anonymity. I would like to retain those. I think they add something to the article. TJRC (talk) 01:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Archive link
Heya, WV, I responded on my talk page, but here's a copy as well: The link is not dead, so I saw no reason to have an archived link. If it were ever to become dead, then sure, but that site has missions dating back for 20+ years, and I see no reason it would go dead any time soon. It is not necessary to add archive links when the existing link is active, that's all. Putting the link in the talk page in the (rare) event that the links go dead is a good idea, but having two identical references is redundant. And honestly, I doubt that site would "die" simply because of a change in government, (or even if their contract weren't renewed, as Boeing will always be part of the shuttle program history) it has been active and online for many, many years, and the site is basically already an archive of past mission. I'm sorry I didn't talk to you first, I didn't feel it necessary, since it isn't adding or removing anything from the FL. I understand your reasoning, but the link is not dead, so the addition of a "mirror" URL is not necessary at this point. Honestly I thought that maybe you thought it was a link to something different, so I just figured you didn't realize the existing reference was the exact same thing. No offense was intended, at all, and I'm sorry if you felt offended.

Btw, the "Citing Sources" link you gave me doesn't exist. I assume you meant to link Citing_sources, or perhaps Dead external links, but honestly, unless a link is dead, I see no reason for adding redundant archive links. The type of links that go dead most often, and what prompted these types of archiving sites, are things like the Yahoo news URLs, Associated Press news release URLs, network news site URLs, those types of links are "disposable", and likely to expire after a matter of weeks. However, a site specifically designed to document past shuttle missions such as shuttlepresskit.com is not going to have those issues, and thus, my reasoning why it is not necessary to put archive links for something like that. I hope you understand, and don't take it personally. Ariel ♥  Gold  17:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said, I do understand how the archiving of web links works, and I do understand why you have done it, and applaud you for it. I understand your reasoning (that it can't be done if the site goes offline), but with that thinking, every single URL on the web is "potentially" one that "could" go offline, lol. It is best to use some intuition, and have faith that sites like CBS News, major space reporting sites like Spaceflightnow, Space.com, NASASpaceflight.com, etc., are not high risk, and don't need their pages archived. I would also suggest you do not need to archive the Spaceflightnow.com URLs, I've been linking to them for years, and they have never had issues with dead links, plus, every one of those stories is also "archived" already (the original) at Bill Harwood's CBS Space Place, again, not a site that's likely to go offline any time soon. It will simply save you time in the future. Please don't misunderstand, your intentions are great, I just think that you don't necessarily need to be spending the time and effort archiving all these stable websites, when they aren't high risk. URLs that I consider "potentially dead links", as I mentioned, are those of AP, AFP, News agencies, Yahoo/Google news reports, and those types of URLs. Those are the majority of the dead links that happen here, and those, I do consider "high risk" and worth archiving, when possible.


 * Again, I really hope you don't take this wrong, I realize that text is an imperfect medium, and it is all too easy to "hear" things that weren't written, or are unintended. My intentions are not to tell you to quit doing things, quite the opposite, I think you've done an awesome job on that list, but I'm just thinking you're getting a bit too focused on archiving web links, (ones that are highly unlikely to turn into dead links) and spending time doing that, time that you could be spending on the article itself! Lol. Have faith that these sites are not going to go dead any time soon. :) Also, for anything that's happened in the last decade or more, (since the Internet bloomed, basically), just a Google search for the news article title will likely bring you multiple results of news sites that picked up the story, so on the off chance that a URL did go dead, it honestly is not difficult to find replacement URLs (at least for space related articles). Now, for things from the 60s, websites that may appear to be run by some individual who archived newspaper articles, that sort of thing, then it may be worth taking the time to archive, but for these huge sites, really archiving isn't necessary. (Again, this is simply my personal opinion, take it as you will.)


 * As for the list, you've done a lot of nice formatting work and it looks much better! As for the images, I personally dislike having images on the side of lists, for a number of reasons. The first and most important is the WP:Accessibility issue; keep in mind readers with poor eyesight, or lesser computers that run at 400x600 resolution (or less), for those people, having images next to tables makes the table extremely cramped and difficult to read, and can cause problems with formatting. (This is why I chose the format I did for the other list, with images in a centered table (not a gallery) at the end, and one or two in the lead.) Second, remembering that the reason for adding images to an article, an image is added to show something that cannot be easily depicted in words, or to increase a reader's understanding of the subject. The images in the List of spacewalks and moonwalks table really do nothing more than decorate (no offense, I love EVA images, but really, they are all extremely similar). They really are not integral to a reader's understanding of the subject matter. I would suggest expanding the lead section quite a bit more, perhaps adding expanded information about the very first spacewalk, adding notable EVAs, such as the longest, the first three-person EVA, how EVAs have advanced, basic suit information, etc., and placing two or three images into the lead section. The image of Cernan on the moon is a good image, and sufficiently different from most EVA images that it would help the reader, and the McCandless image is iconic, those are always good choices. The White image is a good one to show how suits have changed over time, as well. (I realize you aren't finished with the work, so these are just suggestions).


 * I have a feeling that when reviewing it, FL folks will ask why there is a discrepancy to how the sections are separated. Some are only a few years, some are a decade, so it might be a good idea to either make the breaks every 5 years for consistency, or be prepared to have a reason that would make sense to someone totally unfamiliar to the subject matter. I'd probably go with every 5 years for every section, simply for numerical standardization. Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Archiving URLs
WVhybrid, I agree with you about archiving new references. I've been doing that myself whenever I can and have also been going back and archiving some commonly-cited links. It's a good practice to make sure that the content will always be available. Even if you have a major website, including a lot of government ones, you never know when the cite might do a reorganization that will break links.

We've had a lot of problems with WVDOH and ODOT site changes that either relocated URLs or removed content entirely. I've either had to go through and update all of the links or try to dig up archived copies after the fact. If the archiveurl parameter had been used in the first place, this wouldn't have been an issue. Brian Powell (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Michael Collins
Responded to you on my own talk page. JimVC3 (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Where do you want your barnstar?
'Cause you sure earned one for the WMA articles.  young  american (wtf?) 19:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks. How about the lower left corner of my user page.WVhybrid (talk) 23:01, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Feel free to format as you wish.  young  american  (wtf?) 13:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you!WVhybrid (talk) 13:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

youngamerican, WVhybrid deserves 2 stars in my opinion... Conaughy (talk) 11:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Flags
I'm not sure why you think the conversation should have been in private, WV. It is a community decision, and relates directly to the list, so other people should be able to give their opinions. It in no way reflects on you personally, nor is it any kind of negative comment, so I'm a bit confused why you seem upset. It is my personal opinion, to which I asked what others thought about it. Please don't take it personally. Ariel ♥  Gold  00:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

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