User talk:WWJDSailFar

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Catalina 36
You removed Frank Butler from the Catalina 36 article, saying it was a "clarification". This has been in the article since the beginning, and is sourced. Wikipedia works off sources. We are supposed to be adding things to the encyclopedia based on sources, and only removing them if those sources are later deemed inadequate, or another source indicates removal. Please stop editing without using sources to support your work. Le Marteau (talk) 08:50, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * It was incorrect from the beginning. Butler was the founder and owner of the company, Douglas was the longtime (40 or more years) in-house yacht designer and marine engineer. The main CY page is filled with inaccuracies that are simply embarrassing.  WWJDSailFar (talk) 12:07, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * User:Le Marteau is quite correct - the designers of the Catalina 36 series are sourced to reliable refs. You can't just change this because you don't like it; you need to cite sources as per WP:V. In this case Butler designed many of the earlier Catalina boats and Douglas many of the later ones. Both wwere prolific designers in their own right and also collaborated on some designs. In the case of the 36 Butler designed the original 36 and Douglas made the changes to the existing hull that resulted in the Mark II. It is all in the cited refs. - Ahunt (talk) 12:14, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And if you’d bothered to actually check your cited sources, to read the sources, you’d see that not one gives design / marine engineering credit to Mr. Butler. Douglas is consistently cited as the sole designer of Catalina sailboats from the mid-80s on. Butler was founder and owner of the company, and helped change American sailing. His partner, Douglas, designed those boats. There is a fairly profound difference in the two jobs. WWJDSailFar (talk) 12:20, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry but your claims are not supported by the cited sources. In the case of the Catalina 36, the cited ref says Designer: Frank Butler and Douglas is not mentioned. In the case of the Mark II the cited source says Designer: Frank Butler/Gerry Douglas and the notes explain Same hull and rig as the earlier version introduced in 1982 but with a larger cockpit and updated deck and interior. In my own correspondence with the staff at Sailboatdata.com, their data is directly based upon the information from a large collection of paper factory brochures. Many, many early designs are credited to Butler in the period before Douglas joined the company. The ref on Butler further explains: Frank W. Butler 1928 - 2020 Founder of Catalina Yachts and designer or co-designer of some of the builders most successful models. To change any of these you will need a more authoritative source cited, not just your own opinion. - Ahunt (talk) 12:32, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I, and virtually every other dealer in the sail industry, disagree. Your sources are simply wrong. WWJDSailFar (talk) 12:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The fact that the boats designed before Douglas joined the company are credited to Butler supports the SBD claims, but regardless, we don't use personal opinions here or original research, we rely on reliable sources, so please feel free to list your sources. As far as the rest goes, please see WP:TRUTH and especially WP:The Truth. - Ahunt (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2022 (UTC)