User talk:Walls of Jericho/Archive 21

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Ashley Barnes
A tag has been placed on requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia, because it appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion. If you can indicate how it is different from the previously posted material, place the template hangon underneath the other template on the article and put a note on the page's discussion page saying why this article should stay. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. If you believe the original discussion was unjustified, please use deletion review instead of continuing to recreate the page. Thank you.

I would wait until he has played for Plymouth before requesting an undelete.

slυмgυм [ ←→ &#93; 13:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

P.S. It also uses Football player infobox, a template which has been renamed Infobox Football biography

List of Plymouth Argyle F.C. Players of the Year
Sadly, you can't just award a list Featured List status, it first has to be reviewed by other editors to ensure it meets the featured list criteria. To instigate this review process you would need to nominate it as a Featured list candidate. Cheers. --Jameboy (talk) 14:55, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I had a feeling that might be the case. I'll see if it can be improved further before deciding to nominate it then. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 15:12, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Players of the year and home park
I haven't gotten around to doing Vicarage Road yet, although if a good stadium article to learn from is what you're after I would suggest looking no further than Qwest Field. Some of the information there is irrelevant for Plymouth, but it's got a good structure, and might give you some ideas if you intend to write a bit about the extended/new stadium.

As for the Players of the year, it looks pretty good so far. Couple of things I've noticed:


 * I've been criticised in the past for not doing enough to introduce the subject of my lists. I'd suggest starting with along the lines of "Plymouth Argyle Football Club are a professional association football club, based in Devon, south-west England. The Plymouth Argyle Player of the Year award is..."
 * On that note, bolding the article title is allowed, but not actually required anymore.
 * Do you have any third party sources that reference the award- the local paper perhaps?
 * You need a small symbol accompanying any colours that you use, to comply with WP:ACCESS. Something like † and ‡.
 * The way you've done Martin Barlo and Carlo Corazzin prevents the table from being sorted. My suggestion would be to give them completely separate rows, but add a footnote to explain that they shared the award.

Hope those help! WFCforLife (talk) 18:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, might be worth nominating Home Park for a peer review. It's not that I'm not willing to help, but I don't really know what people look for when they assess stadium articles.


 * As for the Players of the Year, I think it's nearly ready for the Featured List process. A mention in the paper would have helped, but I don't think it's a big deal really. My only other suggestion is to see the picture in List of York City F.C. Clubmen of the Year for an example of good alt text. I wish you the best of luck at FLC, and will be happy to help out if there are any problems. WFCforLife (talk), Help wikipedia. Make the pledge. 21:54, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Kenny Cooper
As far as I can tell, the transfer is definately on. To summarize the source I cited, "Kooper wants to be on the American squad for the World Cup and couldn't be guaranteed sufficient opportunities to play at 1860 Munich. To that end, he requested a transfer and was loaned to Plymouth until the end of the season." Sir Sputnik (talk) 09:14, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

A barnstar

 * A belated thank you, its much appreciated. I'm happy to assist as much as I can for a worthy cause. Regards. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 05:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Non Free Images in you User Space
Hey there Argyle 4 Life, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free images are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some images that I found on User:Argyle 4 Life/Sandbox. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use images to your user-space drafts or your talk page. See a log of images removed today here, shutoff the bot here and report errors here. Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 00:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for notifying me, Mr Bot.


 * I could go into great detail about how trying and tiresome the whole circus surrounding images on Wikipedia is, but since you are a bot I shall not bother.


 * Regards. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 00:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

When Saturday Comes
I've been keeping an eye on the FLC, but have deliberately kept a distance. I don't think I can be impartial about a format that I have used and might use again in future.

I think it's beyond question that When Saturday Comes is a reliable source. Whether their endorsement of the other sites is sufficient is generally down to the opinion of the individual reviewers. Without wanting to pre-empt anyone else, I think that's pretty high praise you've quoted there.

Don't be too disheartened about the lack of support, it's going better than most people's first FLCs, and I'm pretty sure it took me longer than this to get my first support. Good luck, and let me know if you have any further questions! WFCforLife (talk) 07:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it is a tried and tested format. :) I've been encouraged by the feedback really, none have been overly critical, they're just making sure the sources are reliable which is fair enough. I remembered Greens on Screen got a mention in WSC and thankfully I found a link, so hopefully that'll be enough.


 * I wouldn't use their material unless I was pretty sure its correct. I have alot of respect for the owner who runs it (with the help of a few contributors regarding photos), and I have learnt so much about our history through it, so I could think of no better source to use. The feedback has been positively joyous compared to a certain peer review I asked for. I'll give you a shout if I need anything else. Cheers. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 08:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Jack Fowler (footballer born 1899)
Thanks for the note - maybe Puncheon will make his debut at Exeter today. I'm sure you won't object if Saints come away with all three points! Pardew is a great manager and has made some fantastic signings for a club at our (present) level. I think the play-offs are out of reach this season (after all we did start with a ten point penalty and only one win in the first ten games as the new signings blended together) but we'll be back soon.

I have now expanded the Fowler article and added my source for his date of death. As you can see, this came from a book about Wales international footballers. www.allfootballers.com gives the year of death, but is a subscription service. (Well worth it in my opinion, but I can see that not everyone wants to spend their hard earned cash on obtaining information for Wikipedia.)

The two Plymouth Argyle websites are fantastic resources, with so much information; it's a pity neither of them give any biographical details. (I wish Southampton had something similar, although Hagiology Publishing's books are equally comprehensive.) I will have to continue my expansion to cover his Swansea and Wales careers to make the article fully comprehensive - maybe tomorrow.

Are you able to shed any light on why Fowler went on the tour of South America after leaving the club? (That's almost definitely him in the photo as he looks identical to the picture in the Wales Who's Who.) Very strange! Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:52, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No not at all, put them in their place. Some of them are actually entertaining the thought of playing us for once next season, no chance!


 * Indeed, if they had biographical details I would be all set, but I might have a further look into subscribing somewhere because I'd like to create pages for as many of our players as possible, and I'd like them all to have their date of death/definitely still living eventually. I'll purchase a few Argyle books soon which will help me there too. I'm very impressed with what you've done for Jack Fowler. Its a shame he didn't play more for us, but we did have some great players back then.


 * I have no idea why he went on the tour when he wasn't our player anymore. I see you found the page about it from Argyle on Tour, a great read. Boca's supporters haven't changed over the years, still loopy! Good old Moses though, he was a man who didn't take prisoners. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 08:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I have listed this article for DYK with your name as co-author. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 11:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC) p.s. Sorry we couldn't hold on to the lead yesterday. That's three away matches in a row that we have conceded a late equalizer.


 * Awesome work there. Its amazing what can happen after you create an article! Would you fancy doing something similar for Moses Russell? He is deserving of a strong article but I couldn't do it justice myself because I don't have much information available to me. I could add a good table for appearances but not alot else.


 * Keep up the good work. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 12:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Moses Russell
I will see what I can do later in the week. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate you doing this. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 14:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I hope I've done him justice. A fascinating guy. I need now to find a picture to upload showing his bald head. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:54, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Great stuff. A guy like Moses deserved a worthy article. Good luck trying to find a free picture! Argyle 4 Life (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of Plymouth Argyle F.C. results by opponent


The article List of Plymouth Argyle F.C. results by opponent has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * WP:NOT a statistics database. A history of Plymouth Argyle F.C. is welcome, and the article with the main statistics is normal as well, but this is taking things one step too far. The resutls of Plymouth against e.g. Accrington Stanley are the kind of minutiae that belong in specialized statistical databases, not in Wikipedia.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Fram (talk) 13:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll be challenging this, make no mistake. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 14:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Please don't be reticent in defending your corner. You are entitled to express your opinion at Articles for deletion/Luton Town F.C. league record by opponent. Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:31, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Referencing BLPs
Hello. First, well done for adding references to so many unreferenced BLPs. But when you leave an article still needing more references, please could you use the template BLP sources (or BLPrefimprove, which redirects to that) rather than plain refimprove, to make sure the article gets properly categorised as a BLP needing improved ref'ing. thanks, Struway2 (talk) 12:28, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'll do that in the future. I did actually use one of them before it was suggested I should use a different one in a history page of an article which I added a reference to. Thank you for the message. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 13:42, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Results by opponent
Actually, I've got a very similar one in my sandbox, albeit I only got as far as C before losing that book, and I haven't been able to get it back since.

I'm always reluctant to directly act on discussions where you're involved; we have very similar names as well as editing in similar areas. I'm worried that we could be accused of sockpuppetry, and that there's enough of a crossover that a checkuser test could come up as a false positive.

Provided it's a neutral notification, my suggestion would be to take it to the talk page of FLC. The Luton one has been nominated, so the discussion directly affects the FL process. I'd have thought that if a list has passed an FLC, reviewers there (as a general trend) think that it's an article worthy of inclusion. WFCforLife (talk) 15:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That is what I thought too. I felt for quite some time that doing a list of results by opponent would be interesting, but I wouldn't have gone ahead and done so if there were no others on show. As it happens I saw one on Luton which passed an FLC which indicated it was a worthy article as you say, which gave me the nudge I needed to crack on with my own. I can understand why it is being questioned since there are only two such articles, but I believe the reason for that is because it does require alot of hard work.


 * I removed the Prod from the article and gave my reasons for doing so which prompted the Luton Town article being nominated and I've said I'll keep out of it because it directly affects me, and I believe the format is sound. We'll see what reviewers decide and take it from there. If its decided to delete them then I can't really do anything but I'm confident that won't happen. I would be happy for Cliftonian to defend the format but he isn't around any more which is unfortunate. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 16:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * P.S. I understand your concerns, some people will look for anything to back-up their argument, but I think its clear that we're not the same person. I might alter my name soon though, I expect it can be confusing for some people even though we support teams at different sides of the country. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 16:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I wish the Football League fixture computer would recognise that we're on opposite sides of the country, instead of routinely sending us to Home Park on Tuesday nights! WFCforLife (talk) 17:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You won't have to worry about it next season, the way things are going at the moment! Argyle 4 Life (talk) 00:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

www.argylereview.co.uk
Hi - do you know what's happened to this website? It seems to have disappeared over the weekend. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:28, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I did notice a few days that it hadn't been updated for a few weeks. I can't see anything right now on our main forum which the guy who runs it has posted on before. It would be a shame if its gone for good; maybe just taking a break and neglected to pay for bandwith. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 18:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Rollo Jack
Have you got any books which include a bio for this player. I was wondering if he might be ths same person as Robert Jack who is listed as joint manager of Valur in 1937-8. Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 21:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I don't. He didn't play often for my club so I can't find much on him, but it might well be the same person since the two dates, retirement from playing and managing Valur, link fairly well. One of our current players began his career there, quirky. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 00:57, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a link to his Swindon Town profile. I had hoped that this might indicate where he went next, but no such luck. Sorry I can't help further.  Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

FLC
I think it is already fantastic. I'll take a second look to be extra vigilant. The sourcing was the main thing so it should be a case of tracking down the info and adding the citations.Cptnono (talk) 01:25, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats good to know. I've ordered a couple of the books that are listed in the references and they should be with me by Wednesday atleast, so I'll be able to add specific page citations. I would like to have more photographs, especially ones featuring the award, like this, but its a minefield. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 19:14, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Good news, my books arrived this morning so I've been able to add inline citations for each player and one in the lead which is a reference to a table of the winners listed in the books. I've also expanded the lead to include some more information about the history of the club, we're rather old! I'm not sure what else I can add really, let me know what you think. I'll have a look over it a few more times and will probably nominate it again in a few days. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 16:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

BLP sticky PROD
Hi !. Every attempt to rescue a Wikipedia article is a noble gesture. However, there may be occasions when, with the best  will in the world, it  is just  not  possible to accord even a minimum of notability to an article or stub, or find a proper source for it. Most regrettably, even the most  dedicated inclusionists will have to concede that  the article may  have to  go if the creator or major contributors cannot  justify their work. For new and recent unsourced BLPs, some users are now working at  WT:BLP PROD TPL on  the development  of templates that are designed to  encourage contributors to source new BLPs, without  scaring away the newbies who  might  not  be aware of the rules. This template is certainly not  another  a licence to  kill for the deletionists, in  fact  the very idea of it  is to  ensure that  you  are not  fighting a losing  battle. It would be great if you  could look  in  at the prgogress and maybe leave a word of encouragement. The workshop page is essentially a template development taskforce, and is not a place to  engage in a hefty  debate on  incusion/deletion  policy. See you at WT:BLP PROD TPL?--Kudpung (talk) 12:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)