User talk:Watchtower666

AfD nomination of Subkulture
I have nominated Subkulture, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Subkulture. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. D ENNIS B ROWN (T) (C) 01:14, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Giving input on the Subkulture article
Hi Watchtower, I see you are having some difficulty with the rules and procedures here on Wikipedia, and your comments on the Subkulture article were posted in the wrong place. This link should take you to the discussion page for the Subkulture article being considered for deletion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Subkulture

You are asked to indicate your view there by typing *Keep/Delete. The asterisk is a formatting tool that makes your comment a The three apostrophes make your vote bold. After indicating your vote in this manner you should then explain why you are voting in that way. Please keep in mind that articles in this encyclopedia are included based on notability demonstrated through references to media coverage. So if you can provide citations to news coverage of Subkulture, that would go a long long way to demonstrating the subjects notability and to justify its inclusion. I know it can be a bit daunting and confusing. You can respond here as I will be watching your discussion page for any questions or assistance you need. One final point is that if you have a conflict of interest, meaning you are part of the band or have some other connection to it, you are asked to disclose that and to refrain from editing the article. It may still be possible to get someone else to fix the article for you. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * bullet point.

I see you added some references on that article's page. I tried to fix them up a bit and will do more when I get the chance. Rock on. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:44, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello sir, yes im tryin to follow your instructions on the codes, Thank you again for your understanding and kindness. i scanned the japanese magazine to help out the article. i have contacted the current subkulture members for a copy of the new reviews on the latest event. Again thank you for your help.

You still need to indicate whether you want the Subkulture article KEPT or DELETED
Please read my instructions above and let me know if you have any questions. The person deciding whether to keep or to delete the article will look for a BOLD Keep or delete to indicate people's preference (as well as their comments). ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi ChildofMidnight, so sorry, ok i will post "keep"? sorry i misunderstood you. Thank you for your guidance and help sir. Takecare ;)


 * You're welcome. Good job.
 * When you get a chance please look at the article page to see how I included references. This is the proper way to go about it. I know it's a bit tricky. Ideally the references would be to newspaper and magazine coverage. If it's not available on the internet then write out the date, page number, author and source's name. Let me know if you have any questions.  And remember to put 4 tildes ~ after your comments so they are signed and dated. Take care and let me know when you do a show in California. Maybe I will check it out... ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok Sir, again thank you. we are trying our best to fight poverty in the philippines by way of our events since the government is busy taking care of their own pockets, at the same time to give oppurtunities to independent artists. maybe one day we can do something in California, San francisco is a great place. but LA is where we want to do a show in the future.

Sir, we have some magazine/newspaper coverages but i am unsure how i should place it online, should i just scan it and upload it?

Again thank you for cleaning up the article, i have poor writing/spelling skills lol. takecare


 * Please remember to put ~ after your comments so they will be signed and dated.ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:26, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Adding citations to additional newspaper and magazine coverage
I would recommend listing the references to Subkulture in a manner similar to the following:


 * Cavallo, Dominick (1999), A Fiction of the Past: The Sixties in American History, New York: St. Martin's Press


 * Author of article/ Date / Title of article / Page numbers / Name of newspaper or magazine

The information doesn't have to be perfect, but the idea is to allow other people to look up this information.

Eventually the Subkulture article should include relevant information from these articles. Then the citations to sources for that information would be added at the end of the sentence. I did this with the articles I put into Subkulture. Did you see more or less how I added ciations to the article?

The citations do not have to be from sources available on the web. So if you later want to scan the articles and put them on your website that's up to you. It's obviously nice for people to be able to read the articles you are citing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

ok i will do that, thank you so much ;)Watchtower666 (talk) 22:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Your signature looks beautiful!


 * This is a website I found with some information on your the Subkulture group. It's not a great source, but I think it's okay.

http://life-blood.net/webmaster.php


 * ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, so i can include that also? the link as a citation? or can i just insert it on the references? Watchtower666 (talk) 22:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes. You can use that.  The way to include it is to put it after the appropriate sentence in the article. Then type This lets Wikipedia know you are opening and closing a reference and it will automatically be listed in the references list at the bottom of the article page. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you'd like you can write out your citations here. And then we can simply cut and paste them to the article.  Also, if you are responding to a coment, you can indent by using a colon :
 * one colon is one indent :: is two, :::three, etc. But you're doing great. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi so if i use the link you mentioned, should i place that on "article references" or just "references?Watchtower666 (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

The second article references section I created at the bottom of the Subkulture page was just a temporary place to put those references. They need to be integrated into the article. For example there was a story about Subkulture's including a band on their tour and how it helped advance the band's career. So I added a sentence to the article and then I put the reference at the end of that sentence.

When you look at the page it looks like the references are at the bottom, but actually they are worked into the article because the whole point of the references is to provide the reader with the SOURCE for the content of the article. I hope that makes sense.

The idea is that Wikipedia isn't Myspace, it's an encyclopedia. So it's based on knowledge as developed in books and articles. So the references are required to support that effort, otherwise anyone could put anything in an article like "Subkulture is the greatest promotion company in the history of the world". How do I know if that's true? Where do I go to check?

So you have to put in a reference so it might read, "Goth magazine called Subkulture a "huge influence on the Goth movement". John Smith June 14 2004 Subkulture Strikes it big, Goth magazine http//:gothmagazine.com That's how to enter the reference, but to the reader it will just add a numbered citation, and then all the information with the corresponding number will be at the bottom of the page.

I'm going out for a bit, but I'll be back later. Good luck. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, Totally makes sense! thank you so much for helping me! i wish i can repay you in some form, ok i will follow your instructions. thank you again sir ,i will be here.Watchtower666 (talk) 00:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As there is a chance the article will be deleted, I strongly encourage you to save a copy of the formatted version to your computer. That way your work won't be lost and we can try again to add the article to Wikipedia in the future if need be, without having to start from scratch.  ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi ChildofMidnight, yes i noticed Dan is asking for more information, i will try to scan some magazines and newspaper prints that has covered our events and i believe there are new publications also coming from the last october 31 event we did. anyways

does reviews conducted in a blog count? there is this writer who does reviews and posted it online, im not sure if its credible to be a reference though here is his link : http://azraelsmerryland.blogspot.com/2008/10/halloween-party-2008-venue-and-dates-in.html he was comparing the top holloween events in Manila.

Yes i will save the current subkulture write up, i just want to thank you for all your guidance and help. i really appreciate your kindness, i will do my best to come up with more references to make dan happy.

thank you again Sir.Watchtower666 (talk) 01:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I added some "categories" to the bottom of the page. Have a look at some of the related topics and subjects.  You might find it interesting. Hopefully the deletion will be refused soon so we can focus on adding references and improving the article instead of fighting its possible deletion.  I think it will be okay.  It's MUCH better than a lot of articles and the PinoyToday news article is very helpful. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Sir, i was able to scan the japanese media coverage for subkulture and their hosting the japanese band eve of destiny

here are the links of the magazine:

Burst magazine Japan coverage: http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=890937&da=y

Burst japan magazine front

page:http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=890937&da=y

i hope this will help.Watchtower666 (talk)


 * Hello sir, yes im tryin to follow your instructions on the codes, Thank you again for your understanding and kindness. i scanned the japanese magazine to help out the article. i have contacted the current subkulture members for a copy of the new reviews on the latest event. Again thank you for your help Sir.Watchtower666 (talk)

Okay, no problem. The reference that got deleted before was a photo of an article from Goth Magazine, do you have that article? Can you please provide the date, page number etc. as per my instructions above? Do you have any other newspaper or magazine reviews?

Articles from papers and magazines written in English would be best, but perhaps we can integrate the Japanese article to establish an international presence...

Don't panic. :) We'll get it done.  ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello Sir, did you mean the reference linked to image shack? yes this is a coverage done by the magazine FHM. i will ask the others if they have a copy of it, and will scan at best. i believe there are new coverages because of the recent eternal death wake done last october 31, but i am unsure if it is released yet. i will keep looking. Again thank your for your help.Watchtower666 (talk)

Clarification on references
You are not required to scan any articles. You are required to provide the reference information including 1) the name of the article 2) the date of the article 3) the author of the article 4) the magazine or newspaper the article is from 5) it's nice to include page numbers.

Do you understand? The priority is to catalog coverage of Subkulture from the BEST article sources (established english language media). There isn't necessarily a need to upload photo of the articles, although this might be helpful to do at some point.

I hope you aren't stressing. I'm hopeful that this will all work out okay. No worries. :) I'm going to bed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:41, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you sir, so no hard links? i mean to the magazine or newspaper itself? on pdf. i mean wouldnt they doubt that? ok sir get some rest. thank you again for your time and support.Watchtower666 (talk)


 * It's not your job to provide them with scans of the magazine pages. If you choose to do that it's up to you.  But the problem is that the links are to a page you're creating, so it's almost better just to provide the citation itself.  You can also add any quotes you want to in the actual reference.  I am going to do a reference here just so you see how it will look. Removed demo from bottom of page by deformattingChildofMidnight (talk) 07:36, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I just looked at the article and the way you included the new information and references was excellent. You're a natural.

If you include the reference in the article text you don't need to include it also in the additional references section. I just made that area to dump references temporarily. You can also go back to the Deletion discussion (I have linked it somewhere above here) and add a *comment I have added some new references to the article.
 * Comment I have added some new references to the article. Etc. etc.

I wrote out how it should look first and then what I typed to make it look that way second. I hope that helps. Take care. I will talk to you soon. If you need help you can also type and then any questions you have. People will appear with answers. Good luck. ChildofMidnight (talk) 08:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok Sir i will do my best to provide everything properly, again i thank you for your guidance. sleep well. ;)Watchtower666 (talk)

Help Me section
Just type:

And then your question. Maybe you'd like to try it? ChildofMidnight (talk) 08:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Subkulture article is no longer a candidate for deletion
Congratulations. You did a good job coming up with references. You can now take your time improving it (and other articles). I hope you find Wikipedia more enjoyable when you're not threatened with the IMMINENT DELETION of your work. Take care. Have fun. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Sir, Thank you so much for all your help, it is because of your selfless guidance and support that we can make this article better. i will ask other people more knowledgable on the topic to help me fix and improve the article. thank you for saving us. please let me know if i can repay you. thank you again. Watchtower666 (talk)


 * No worries. I apologize that the process took so long. Subkulture is clearly notable and you did everything asked of you. Take care. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I hope you are well. I was curious about your large deletions on the Dominion (Filipino band) page? One thought I had regarding Subkulture is that many of the articles on band labels include a list of the bands the label markets. Party on. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC) I didn't mean to startle you. I was watching that article and I was going to suggest you add some references to it once Subkulture was in the clear. Take it easy. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)