User talk:Waya sahoni/Archive 3

Archives Boxes
Waya sahoni I think the archives in a box looks really professional. I'd experimented on my talkpage and thought I'd share it with you. --Bookofsecrets 03:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Gourd Dancing
Hello Waya. Thank you very much for your contributions to Gourd Dance. You have definitely made some great improvements to the article. I am a little disappointed, however, that in one of your edit summaries you chose to characterize some of the original information as "making up BS". Firstly, my experience and education would seem to be different from yours. I have only put into the article what I believe to be true, and I have not made anything up. Secondly, in addition to my own experience, I have sources for the informaiton I added. For instance, with regards to the Gourd Dance cleansing the floor before the pow-wow, please see this source. I am entirely prepared to accept that my memory and my sources could be wrong. It is also possible that different groups have different teachings. I look forward to working with you improve the quality of the article. Johntex\talk 20:21, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I get a little carried away sometimes. I apologize if I got a little excited.  I get tired of folks making stuff up about our culture, and sometimes its frustrating.  Waya sahoni 21:36, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much. No big worry, I have the same trouble sometimes.  I'm sure we can sort out what is correct from what is not and improve these articles together. Johntex\talk 03:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Cherokee
I beleive that this article should be broken up so that this article discusses shared history and culture and a new article created called Cherokee Nation which discusses the OK tribe (to parallel the article on the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians and Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians article needs a lot of work (and Qualla Boundary and Cherokee, North Carolina). I removed a reference to Yellow Hill Township from Qualla Boundary article because it didn't make sense and I could find no such township. Rmhermen 06:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * How about master Cherokee article and then a breakup of the Three Federally recognized Tribes with their own pages and history? This sounds like a plan.  Cherokee history and culture were shared until the removal, so the decision should be based on date.  Material which related to pre-removal should be on the Cherokee page, then break up the three tribes into separate articles.  Cherokee Nation is not referred to as "Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma" but just "Cherokee Nation".  The other two groups are organized as bands, and are not recognized as "Nation" status. Waya sahoni 06:44, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I can contact "Bo" who runs the museum of the Cherokee Indian in the Eastern Band and get a lot of content on modern Eastern Band customs. I have a lot of contacts there (speaking Cherokee really helps) and I can really put together a good article on the Eastern Band.  Their modern history has a lot of contention over the casino issues, just like the CN vs UKB lawsuits on the same issue. Waya sahoni 06:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Rmhermen 13:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

RE: Cherokee Slang
By all means transwiki the article. I don't think you need my vote to do that.

However, I did notice that you added a tag stating that the article had been accepted by the WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. Since you are a participant in this project I assume that it is accurate that the article has been accepted by the project. Be that the case I will do you one better.

My personal policy is that if somebody (such as yourself or a Wikiproject) adopts an article then I will suspend my objections to the article. Since I nominated the article I will retract my nomination to allow you and/or the Wikiproject to work on the article.

Thank you for contacting me about this article and thank you for showing the article a little bit of love.

James084 13:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed my delete vote. I'd most like to see this transwikied to wikisource and then referenced and linked in the Cherokee Language article and Charokee Slang left as a redirect to Cherokee Language.  My objection isn't on content, because I think this is interesting and valuable information.  My objection is more on precedent of slang lists as Wikipedia articles.  You don't need anyone's approval to wikisource this and add a link in the Cherokee Language and redirect Cherokee Language (though I think it has to be an external link... wikilinks between 'pedia and source don't work if I remember correctly).--Isotope23 14:20, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much. I will transwiki the article. Waya sahoni 02:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Cherokee Slang
You don't need my permission to transwiki anything. I simply vote to delete articles that I don't see fit for Wikipedia. -- Krash (Talk) 01:28, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Article has been transwiki'ed and merged into Cherokee Language. Waya sahoni 04:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Merkey
I didn't tag it because I thought the two should be merged, I just thought that instead of a disambiguation page, when you read Merkey's page, you can have a link to another one. This would be more direct than linking it to the disambiguation page as well. This might be what you're looking for:

Disambiguation pages are for articles that would have the same name. The mailing list's article would not be called "Merkey." Hope this explains it. CanadianCaesar The Republic Restored 08:58, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your thoughtful response. I realized that afterward and removed the disambiguation link and just put in a normal link.  Thanks for your kind and quick attention.  Waya sahoni 09:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Waya Ge-tlv-hv-s-di
In Talk:Cherokee_society/Archive2 you said
 * This phrase broken down is: Wa-ya (wolf). Ge (1st person),tlv-hv (make a sound like a wolf), s-di (do it now and sustain it indefinitely). It translates, "I will make a sound like a wolf and sustain it indefinitely". This phrase is not a proper name, otherwise it would contain -yi (the place of or where you find it or he who stands in the place of the "howling wolf"). If it was used as part of signature block in conjunction with an English name, it's a proper usage, but it indicates an an descriptive action of the person (Like "I'll shout it from the Mountain Top). I doubt it's their proper name.

As a result of your explanation and your subsequent claims that it is misspelled if being used as a name, I changed Jeffrey Vernon Merkey to say that he might be using the phrase as a slogan rather than as a name. Among your recent edits to that article, you changed it to say flatly that he is using it as a name. Could you please explain that change? The phrase should be labeled correctly. — MediaMangler 01:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your assistance with that troublesome article. Please help me move the LKML content to the LKML article so we can flesh out the rest of the article. I am happy to provide resources and content and images emailed to me on the subject. I think we can create a much more quality article. Say Hi to User:Bookofsecrets while you are at it. Waya sahoni 03:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

And in answer to your question, he is using the ancient Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni dialect. It could be a proper name, and probably is, but I breach a religious confidence in explaining to you why its a proper name. I believe this usage is a proper name after reviewing its context. Waya sahoni 03:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Why you so hawny?
I have blocked User:Why you so hawny? for stalking and reverting you (and the username). Let me know if this happens again. —Guanaco 05:27, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I will get back to work on my Native Peoples article. I kind of have an idea know what its like to fight vandalism on this site now. Wow! Actually this was good for me to teach me to be calm and follow the rules through all of this. The system and Wikipedia's rules really do work after all! Waya sahoni 05:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Sue me Jeff and User:Friendly neighbour are also blocked now. —Guanaco 19:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. This is deserving of a very special award. Waya sahoni 20:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Block
I've blocked you for an hour for violating the Three-revert rule on Talk:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. I will remove this block if you agree to not revert that page. —Guanaco 05:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I will not revert the page again. Will you please replace the tags. I also have not peformed more than 3RR's in a 24 period (or have I?). Waya sahoni 05:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You did, but it was within two separate UTC days, so the mistake would be easy to make. I've unblocked you. —Guanaco 05:24, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * From now on I will only revert twice per day to avoid hitting one of these windows. I have read that 3RR is an electric fence.  Ouch!!!  Will you revert the vandalism on that article.  Jeff is native and notable, and like it or not, he belongs in that category since he is listed in [Cherokee people]. Waya sahoni 05:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Apologies
I owe you an apology in this whole mess. Me calling you a sockpuppet can indeed be construed as WP:PA, regardless of truth. I confused blocks and bans (I thought they were one and the same). With no evidence to the contrary, User:Gadugi (talk • contribs) is blocked, not banned, and as such there can be no sockpuppet evasions of such a ban.

With this apology comes a re-affirmation that I will follow WP policies such as WP:AGF, and WP:NPA. I would ask from you to do the same. This means no raising to the baits (calling people liars, no matter the truth is also WP:PA). This also means assuming good faith on your behalf (calling every opossing view a SCOX puppet is also a personal attack, using vindictive editing comments using those terms is as well). And it requires consensus on controversial edits, no matter what you may think of opposing editors.

Although I wish you were just straightforward about your identity, the point of WP is not the truth about who someone is, but about a good encyclopedia, based on verifiable facts. I think we can accomplish that here without name calling. --MJ( &#x260E; 07:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC).


 * The only apology I will accept from any of you is replacement of the project tags and removal of your false and malicious accusations from that talk page on Jeff's article. Waya sahoni 08:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Revert War Disruptive edits by User:Mjpieters only to revert another editor Talk:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey
Claiming '1RR per day according to policy' is still in violation of the WP:3RR policy. Quoting from that policy page: If you find you have reverted a page even once in a day it may be a sign there is a problem and you should try dispute resolution, starting always with the article's talk page.. Please desist, as you appear to be going against the consensus. --MJ( &#x260E; 08:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

Removal of the project tags or posting of WP:NPA will be reported immediately. It's vandalism. Waya sahoni 08:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

And yes, the matter has been adequately addressed on the talk page of the article. That's why an RFC has been opened, the issue is in dispute resolution currently. Waya sahoni 08:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Then wait for that dispute resolution to complete, and hold yourself to the outcome. Until then, refrain from making controversial edits, as it only serves to heat up tempers. --MJ( &#x260E; 09:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

I have reported you for vandalzing the project tags on that article repeatedly. Jeff is Cherokee and the article is being tracked and tagged for edits by the Indigineous Peoples Project. You need to stop removing the tags. You do not WP:OWN the article. The tags will simply get put back into the article tommorrow until you stop removing them. Waya sahoni 09:02, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, neither of us owns the talk page. That is why I advise you to use conflict resolution in this case. Continuing to insert the tag without consensus of the other editors consensus is still an edit war, and I ask you to cease that until you can reach a consensus on the matter. --MJ( &#x260E; 09:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

An edit war over a tag? Don't you think this is somewhat petty to argue about? Waya sahoni 09:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. So why do you insist that it is added without reaching consensus? --MJ( &#x260E; 09:19, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. Why should an article about a notable native american not be included in the Indigeneous Peoples Project? Waya sahoni


 * Although Mr. Merkey is a Cherokee, his biography has little bearing on the Indigenueos People pages on Wikipedia. Pages on Cherokee culture and language do fall under that heading. --MJ( &#x260E; 09:28, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism accusations of project tags by User:Mjpieters
Please assume good faith when dealing with reversions and other edits on Jeffrey Vernon Merkey and it's talk page, and please review what is and is not vandalism before you make accusations. Repeated accusations of vandalism can be construed as personal attacks. Use conflict resolution instead, and hold yourself to the outcome. --MJ( &#x260E; 09:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You know, I could respond with something thoughtful, but instead I am going to ignore you and not waste the time to respond to your antics. Waya sahoni 09:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I am sorry that you feel that my attempts at WP:DR are 'antics' and that you choose to ignore me. I would advise you to work within the WP:DR framework however, as we seem to have a genuine conflict here as to what tags belong on the Talk:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey page. Ignoring me will not alter that. --MJ( &#x260E; 09:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Good night MJ. Go find an article somewhere to improve please. Surely in the golden halls of Wikipedia there's an article needing your attention? Waya sahoni 09:20, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Please keep this civil
I asked you if we could keep this discussion civil, and not make personal attacks, like you do in this edit summary. Please do not remove my comments on your talk page, as they are my words, not yours, and are part of our conversation. --MJ( &#x260E; 16:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely. Waya sahoni 02:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Babel templates
Hi Waya,

I noticed from your user page that you're a native Cherokee speaker. I also noticed that the two Babel templates for Cherokee: Template:User chr-1 and Template:User chr are in English! Would you be able to translate them into Cherokee? That's how Babel templates are really supposed to be, see this for example. Thanks --Khoikhoi 07:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The second template is already translated -- Template:User chr "Tsi-wo'-ni-ha" (I am speaking) "Tsa-la-gi" (Cherokee).

Sure. Should I use the Oklahoma dialect or the ancient Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni dialect? Waya sahoni 07:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. I was refering to the syllabary but I guess Latin script is fine. Do most Cherokee speakers use the syllabary? Also, I suppose you could use the dialect that the second template is using. --Khoikhoi


 * Well, I can put in syllabary characters. Yes, most Cherokee use the Syllabary.  I translated the first tag as follows.  "Tsi-wo'-ni-ha Tsa-la-gi (I am speaking Cherokee) a-le (and) Ka-ne: i-s-di Go-we-la-i" (I am speaking and learning the words of the Cherokee Lessons).  We don't have words for some modern concepts (The word for "policeman" is "he who catches them with authority" by way of example)Waya sahoni 07:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I will put in the syllabary characters. I need to load the fonts and insert them. Waya sahoni 07:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting. In the Seri language the word for "radio" is ziix haa tiij coos (literally, "thing that sitting there sings").


 * Thanks for your work. --Khoikhoi 07:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * There are three forms of writing for Cherokee. The most common is a phonetic script using english characters (which is what appears in the tags).  There's also the Cherokee Syllabary (which will make the tag unreadable to most of the planet except us), and the Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni Syllabary (which is banned from publication for religious reasons). Waya sahoni 08:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

RFC is flawed
Please do not use the Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey/Request_for_comments page as a shield for your edits. The RFC was flawed and has been rejected by everyone else. Saying a RFC has been decided without any community support does not give you any rights to enforce it, while stating that it somehow is enforcable shows bad faith and can only fan the flames. Until the dispute has been brought to a satisfying conclusion (and I mean satisfying to most editors), please refrain from making controversial and unsupported edits.

I'll start a proper RFC in the form of a survey. --MJ( &#x260E; 07:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Has this been created yet, and if so, where? —Steve Summit (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No, the intent was pre-empted by the straw poll on Talk:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey --MJ( &#x260E; 15:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't bother MJ. The RFC was not flawed and will be enforced. You can try to create a strawman replica, but it will fail for the same reasons. Just give up. You are misusing wikipedia and sooner or later its going to come out that way. You cannot use "mob mentality" to verify unverifiable materials. Waya sahoni 07:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that an RFC outcome is something binding and enforcable. WP:RFC is tool to resolve disputes. Clearly, the dispute has not been resolved, as all others involved in the dispute rejected the RFC. I was merely trying to resolve the dispute in a new RFC or at least a vote to get this dealt with. Please take a step back and resolve this properly, and not simply waltz over everyone else. --MJ( &#x260E; 10:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

RFC moved to Requests for comment/Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. --cesarb 17:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

WP:NPA
Please refrain from making WP:PA, as you did here. I am asking all participants to do the same. Let's keep this focused on the issues, not on anyone's background, shall we? --MJ( &#x260E; 11:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Practice what you preach. You have personally attacked me over 40 times, and you are not stopping. Waya sahoni 17:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)