User talk:Wekn reven i susej eht/archive1

Dave Souza Greeting
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! . dave souza, talk 08:54, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Wekn reven i susej eht (talk) 10:08, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You could also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 10:50, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Wekn reven i susej eht  Talk• Contributions 11:28, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

YEC or OEC
You asked me. I'm a YEC. rossnixon 03:12, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 06:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Your list
This discussion used to have a lot of posts, but was found to be useless. Wekn reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 13:57, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

YEC, OEC, or Evo?
''YEC, OEC, or Evo?

''Can you make clear your beliefs regarding the origin of the universe on my talk page? Thank you. Weknreven i susej eht Talk• Follow 08:06, 2 June 2011 (UTC)''

You asked on my talk page and requested that I answer on yours.

First, what does it matter?

Second, I'm glad you can't tell.

Third, you can't tell because I don't know. :) I'm neither a scientist nor a theologian, but a dabbler in both fields. I'm curious enough to wonder, but not curious or diligent rich enough to apply myself to years of hard study to find out. Oh, I may as well go ahead and say I can't imagine much of YEC could possibly be true; my dabbling has uncovered a great deal of honest ignorance, willful ignorance, and egregious duplicity there. It is far easier for me to imagine God created a spark of life which he allowed to evolve.

Fourth, when I find the time and inclination I will post or link to an explanation of why I hang around those articles. The gist will be that:
 * I believe in God.
 * Science depends upon the rational application of the scientific method.
 * The Bible is neither a reliable history nor science text.
 * Wikipedia should be an impartial storehouse of historical and scientific fact.

Yopienso (talk) 23:13, 2 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply! Wekn reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

June 2011
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because your account is being used mainly for trolling, disruption or harassment. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 17:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, I'm not a sock puppet. Is there some way to prove that? Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 17:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't say you were a sockpuppet in that SPI case. I was talking about all those usernames that began with Tro, which seemed very suspicious. I was beginning to think if you were the sockmaster because of those edits. Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) T or M/Sign mine 17:47, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * What is a sockmaster? Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:48, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Another thing, not all the usernames start with Tro; the others would be: Tri, Wek, Da, and something else. I really am sorry about that. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:48, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not running a bot. It was all manual. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A sockmaster is the user that abuses multiple accounts. Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) T or M/Sign mine 17:56, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I only have 1 account. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

So your claim is that you manually created welcomes to all sorts of accounts by hand? A bunch of these accounts were created four years ago and never edited, yet you thought to welcome them now? Also, the text you added above is from some random article talk page. You also created a bunch of "templates" (which I have deleted) that consisted entirely of snippets from random talk pages. I'm sorry, but I don't think you're here to contribute positively - but I'll leave that to whichever admin reviews this case. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 17:59, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you really jumped the gun in blocking this user. I seriously doubt that an ANI would result in a block here - you and me have both seen users do far worse than anything Wekn has done and with far less consequence.  Wekn, may I suggest that you file an incident report at WP:ANI?  N o f o rmation  Talk  22:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes (actually, I used OrangeMarlin's welcome w/my name). I did it just to make sure. The text from above was originally going to be in a 'exemplary discussions' subpage, but I didn't know how to create a subpage. The articles I chose weren't random. I am here to contribute positively. I may or may not be able to prove that to the wikipedia community. I understand your predicament. Whatever you say goes. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 18:06, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been doing some reading. Isn't there some tool that helps prove if someone is/isn't a sockmaster? Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 18:14, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've seen and been involved with a decent amount of talkpage discussion with this user and he has generally been easy to work with. He makes bold edits that usually get reverted, but thus far I have had no reason to assume bad faith because as we explain our reasoning for reversion, this user doesn't engage in edit warring and doesn't really even complain.  I think it's obvious Wekn is biased towards a creationist standpoint, but that's ok because we all have our biases.   I do think he is new to wikipedia and is slowly learning the ropes but at least in my experience, he has not been disruptive.  If there was an ANI or SPI that I am not aware of then you can disregard this.  If not, then perhaps a checkuser is in order before we jump right into a ban for sockpuppetry and an ANI is certainly in order if the ban is for disruptive behavior.  While I agree that some of this usertalk business seems strange, it's very possible there is a non-malicious explanation and I think we should AGF until and unless we get a solid reason not to  N o f o rmation  Talk  20:58, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'm going to spend a lot of time reading every single WP policy I can find before I make another edit (exept to my user page). Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Give him another chance
This user was never warned, at least not from what I can see. Why not use the guidelines set out in the give 'em enough rope essay, and allow the user to edit again. I know this is not policy, but if poor editing patterns return he can be reblocked. Ryan Vesey (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This case is a bit puzzling. Wekn started out rather stereotypically, but was amenable to reasoned discussion, and has done some useful work including finding dead links that needed updating. Then Wekn seems to have gone on a spree of welcoming users indiscriminately, which is odd but probably reflects enthusiasm after being welcomed, and creating useless templates which is more of a nuisance. It's right that these activities have to stop, but an indefinite block seems excessive: a warning and a second chance to behave productively seems in order. . . dave souza, talk 22:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll leave it to the reviewing admin to decide. My main reason for the indef was to stop what I found to be particularly disruptive behavior. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 23:18, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And that decision is being challenged by three people now - two of whom are on the opposite end of the philosophical spectrum compared to Wekn, I might add - so I think the correct thing to do would be to WP:AGF and unblock him. Me and User:Dave souza are both involved with a lot of the same pages as Wekn and if we ever have a problem with him we will surely report it.  And, as User: Ryan Vesey pointed out, he was not warned and so I really think you've overstepped your bounds as an administrator. You may have found his edits disruptive but clearly there is no consensus on that point.  N o f o rmation  Talk  00:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any abuse of admin powers here and I can understand the reason for the block, but I do think it likely everything was meant in good faith. So, as the blocking admin is amenable, I have unblocked -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I suppose I may have jumped the gun a little bit myself; I just see a lot of terrible editors spend months on fringe topics and get away with disruptive editing for the entire time while Wekn has actually been quite pleasant compared to a lot of the other folks on the creationist side and ended up getting banned. Either way, it's all over now and we can get back to arguing :) N o f o rmation Talk  08:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I would agree with Dave that the problem is an excess of enthusiasm, rather than any ill intent. This has perhaps been compounded by a failure to understand (or at least to keep in mind) that the main focus in Wikipedia is improvement of the articles, and that excessive activity in other areas (welcomes, userboxes, etc) will be viewed somewhat dimly (particularly if it happens to cross the path of a admin investigating decidedly ill-intended activity such as WP:SOCKPUPPETry). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 06:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * @ Dave: Thank you. The templates were originally going to be subpages on my user page, but I wasn't sure how to create them. Thank you, HelloAnyong for deleting them. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I understand the reason for the block, too. I shouldn't have been welcoming people who probably were never going to show up again. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * @ Hrafn; thank you. Sorry! Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

By the way, Wekn, anytime in the future someone accuses us of being biased to the point of excluding editors who disagree with scientific consensus, please do point to this example where we came to your defense even though we disagree on a lot. I'm glad you were unblocked without incident, happy editing :) N o f o rmation  Talk  08:58, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, definitely! I'll be sure to do that. Once again, thank you. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Notes to self until block expires
-Write a refutation somewhere on a subpage of this article:  Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 11:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

-Look further into this:

-Debunk this:  Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 12:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

How do you add/edit references to an article?
So how do you do it? Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 22:40, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Enable advanced editing tools if you have not done so (see Preferences at top). Click "Cite". &mdash; HXL's Roundtable  and  Record  22:43, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Archive Box
Just so you know, there is a template for an archive box I had put at the top of your article. Would you like that re-added? Ryan Vesey (talk) 04:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Ryan, but I've been using the subpage method for most of the other stuff on my user page. It did help, however, because that way I didn't have to go digging through the page History. By the way, how's the userbox template formatting going? Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:18, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

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Thank you! Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 09:49, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Visoka skola strukovnih studija za vaspitace Krusevac
Hey Wekn, I saw that you mentioned you can help with Slavic translations, does Serbian by chance fit into this category? If so, I stumbled upon Visoka skola strukovnih studija za vaspitace Krusevac. A quick google translation gave me the impression that this page probably shouldn't be on WP, but that can't really be trusted completely. If you have time and the ability, any chance you could give this a pass so we can assess whether it meets WP inclusion standards? Thanks! N o f o rmation Talk  23:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, as a matter of fact it does! I'll look into it. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 06:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you like me to translate it? Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 06:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I know for certain that "Školа je dobilа dozvolu zа rаd (аkreditаciju) br. 612-00-1209/2006-04. 02. junа 2007. godine" should not be on there, but as I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, I may need a little debriefing on what should and shouldn't be on Wikipedia articles. Thank you. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 06:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well essentially we want to find out if it meets criteria for speedy deletion, and if not, whether it is encyclopedic or not so we can send to to articles for deletion or proposed deletion or simply translate it into English and keep it. What's it about exactly and why do you say above that particular phrase shouldn't be in there?  Thanks for helping out :)  N o f o rmation  Talk  07:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The sentence gives out their accreditation number. I'll begin the translation (and do a little editing on the Serbian web page. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:03, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I checked the history of the article. Apparently, whoever wrote the article is on the school board. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've edited the Serbian version and translated it into English (but don't know how to turn the translation into an article):

The Teacher's Training College of Kruševac has been operating since 1973. The main purpose of the school to train teachers for work at preschools. Studies last 2 years (4 semesters), after which graduates pass the sixth level of education.

I had to delete a lot of content because it wasn't verifiable. Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 08:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Wekn, thanks a lot for doing that! I moved your translation above to the page.   In the future if you're translating an article you can simply edit the article as normal and paste your translation there. Is the title of the page "The Teacher's Training College of Kruševac?"   N o f o rmation  <sup style="color:black;">Talk  01:51, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, good call on removing the unsourced info N <sup style="color:red;">o f o rmation  <sup style="color:black;">Talk  01:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

After reviewing the new translated article, I am inclined to propose the article for deletion; however, is it automatically notable because it is a secondary school? Ryan Vesey (talk) 01:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Same reason I didn't tag it, I'm not sure if the secondary school thing will keep it in but I don't think it can be speedied. Maybe a prod?  N <sup style="color:red;">o f o rmation  <sup style="color:black;">Talk  02:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think, due to the reasons we described, this would be best left to an AFD. Ryan Vesey (talk) 03:25, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Noformation! Sorry I haven't replied in so long. Something was wrong w/my notification settings. Hmmm...it is a secondary school; approx. 500 students attend each year, they've trained vrtić helpers for several surrounding countries. Downside: technically not an international organization. The school is government run. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 09:05, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the school is well known in southern Serbia. You'll sometimes hear teachers talking about it. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 09:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

AfD of The Creative Farm
When creating an articles for deletion discussion page, please ensure that you use the template in accordance with step 2 of WP:AFDHOWTO. It appears you either didn't do that or attempted to hardcode a header when you created Articles for deletion/The Creative Farm. Let me know if you have any questions or ever need help with an AfD nomination. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC) Sorry! Thank you. Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 14:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Ryan Vesey (talk) 15:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

The Creative Farm redux
Shall I consider your AfD withdrawn? &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 12:15, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Understood. Discussion has been closed as speedy keep. Thanks! &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 13:36, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Welcome! Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Interested in a general encyclopaedia from a Biblical worldview POV?
We could use more editors at A Storehouse of Knowledge. LowKey (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow! Thank you. I'll consider that option. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 11:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I joined. I'll be editing as soon as possible. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 12:14, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

June 2011
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. In your recent edit to Advanced analytics, you added links to an article which did not add content or meaning, or repeated the same link several times throughout the article. Please see Wikipedia's guideline on links to avoid overlinking. Thank you.  Teapot  george <sup style="color:blue;">Talk  13:44, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, George. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:28, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

User:Brya
You have to compare Brya's edits and discussions across en:Wikipedia, nl:Wikipedia, and en:Wiktionary to get the full picture. Brya would edit pages on wiktionary, then cite them in support of positions. However, the Wiktionary edits were uniformly bad; they all defined the taxa as (effectively) "a group name with a variable meaning". That is, they were meta-defined as a proper noun with more than one definition. We had to ban Brya from en:Wiktionary for refusal to allow/follow actual definitions. The problem here was similar, and if you are really considering an un-block, then you shoould drop in at WP:PLANTS where we have a whole community that still remembers the disruption that Brya repeatedly caused. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:12, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh. Now I see. Thanks. Amazing how Brya looked so harmless in some places and the opposite in others, isn't it? Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow! Thanks for the link; I think I'll join the project. I can help whenever edibility/toxicity or other uses are in question: I'm a field botanist with Primitivist training. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:07, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, Wekn reven i susej eht, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Wekn  reven i susej eht Talk• Follow 13:45, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page and How to develop articles
 * How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
 * Manual of Style

Just practicing on myself

Jcms1506br
Please. Read My last post about Claudio Cesar Dias Baptista. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcms1506br (talk • contribs) 18:50, 15 June 2011 (UTC) Sorry, I've forgot the tilds. I did now.Jcms1506br (talk) 19:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I did. next time, go up to the top of the page and click 'New section'. I was nearly unable to find it because you posted it under Teapot's comment. Thank you. I read it and responded. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 13:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello Wekn reven I susej eht, About page Claudio César Dias Baptista... You've the one of who acted in a reasonable way, since the begining. Mr. Baptista deserves a place in Wikipedia EN, and I've offered myself to reedit and to adjust the page according rules. I've started to look for documents to prove the notability os Mr. Baptista. I've found lots, but I need to organize, to put on cronologial order... I've asked (on discussion page) to involved users, for a period of time to collect documents, and to consult library specialists (here at Ufes where I work) to help me to clean up the article... And today I tried to enter to do some correction and the page was deleted. How it's possible? They didn't wait as I've asked? why? I don't know how to get in contact with the user who have deleted. Sorry to contact you, but you appears on my talk page. Thank you.Jcms1506br (talk) 12:02, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to the Bacon Challenge 2012
Hello! You have been invited to take part in the Bacon Challenge 2012. In case you don't know or need a refresher, the Bacon Challenge is an annual celebration of bacon on Wikipedia in which editors come together to help create, expand, and improve Wikipedia's coverage of bacon. The event lasts all the way through National Pig Day 2012, giving participants plenty of time to work at their pleasure. In addition to the Bacon Challenge is the Bacon WikiCup 2012, a side event to the Challenge in which all bacon-related contributions done by those participating in the Challenge are submitted and scored by the scorekeeper (me) based on the scoring chart. At the end of the Challenge, the user with the most points in the Bacon WikiCup will win a shiny trophy for their userpage. In addition, the users who score the highest in specific categories (not yet finalized, but the categories include most image uploads, most article creations, most DYK submissions, and more) will win barnstars. Finally, all participants will receive a medal. While the awards are nice, in the end, the important thing is to have fun and enjoy what we're all here for, which is improving Wikipedia.

If you decide to participate, great! You may add your name to the participants list at the main page of the Bacon Challenge 2012, and pick up the userbox for your userpage if you desire. Signing up for the Challenge will also automatically enter you into the Bacon WikiCup. If you don't wish to participate, that's fine too - maybe next year! In the meantime, if you know anyone who might also be interested in participating, feel free to invite them! The Challenge is open to anyone and accepts participants at any time, so feel free to let anyone who might be interested know.

Note that I, the scorekeeper of the Bacon WikiCup, will be on vacation starting on the 18th of June all the way up until the 5th of July. I will have limited access to the internet, so I may or may not be able to score users' contributions during this time. Sorry for any delay in scoring (but since the Challenge lasts for more than half a year, there's no rush, right? (= ).

I'm looking forward to another fun, successful year. Thanks! ~<i style="color:#07517C;">Super</i> Hamster  Talk Contribs 00:47, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure thing! Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 09:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have the page Bacon Explosion watched and was incredibly surprised to see that you had edited it since I have had interactions with you so I came here to leave a message. I love bacon and would totally take part in this project too, but my plate is full already. And not with bacon :( Ryan Vesey (talk) 21:40, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know what you mean. After this year, I don't think I'll be participating again. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 08:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Wikify Discussion Invitation
 Sumsum2010 · T · C  23:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Wikify's October Newsletter
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 16:13, 3 October 2011 (UTC).

You were asking a question about Astrology...you could try here... Reference desk/Science Regards Theroadislong (talk) 15:27, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to the December Wikification Drive
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 01:37, 2 December 2011 (UTC).

Mentoring
Hey Wekn. If I remember correctly you speak Serbian, correct? If so, would you be interested in doing some mentoring? There is a user who I think speaks Serbian who has had a lot of problems with creation based topics and I think a large part of it is a language barrier. Currently this user is topic banned from creation related articles for 6 months. If you're interested I can ask if s/he'd be interested, or alternatively you can just pop on their talk page. N <sup style="color:red;">o f o rmation <sup style="color:black;">Talk  19:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll look into it. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 18:10, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Add."Let me know if I can help on my talk page.":Hi Wekn, I think it is a great idea to ask for your help. Even though I do not speak that much Serbian, I hope we can still give it a try. See at my talk page. Thanks a lot for your willingness to help!--Stephfo (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

See follow up Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive828 --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:03, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope he gets unblocked some time. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 17:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Bacon Challenge 2012 Update
Hey! It's been a good few months since the Bacon Challenge 2012 kicked off in June, and I'm pleased to say that decent progress has been made. While we were a bit slow to start, bacon-related contributions have been picking up again, and scores have been rising in the Bacon WikiCup. Here's a quick rundown of the overall positions as they stand: Currently, only a handful of participants have reported contributions: to those who haven't, remember, there is still plenty of time left to contribute and rise up in through the positions, as the Challenge and WikiCup run up until March. Just like last year, all participants will receive a shiny medal which they can place on their userpages, or use as a self-esteem booster if need be (just joking...sort of). If you need ideas for what to work on, a list is available here.
 * 1st : Silver seren
 * 2nd : Worm That Turned
 * 3rd : Rcsprinter123
 * 4th: Doh5678
 * 5th: Cirt

One last thing! Per request, we are bringing back territory representation into the WikiCup! Editors can now represent nations, states, or provinces, just to add a bit of fun and Olympic-flair to the event. Simply reply to this message with the territory you wish to represent, if you choose to do so.

Thanks for reading! Good luck! ~<i style="color:#07517C;">Super</i> Hamster  Talk Contribs 02:02, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

What?
You said "do is remove any material that might be offensive to Atheists off your user page". I've seen many atheist user pages that I find very offensive. And then I move on. Other than obscene material, which I couldn't find in the user's user page history, personal opinions are fine. I post this on your talk page because I don't want to undermine your mentoring; but I don't think censoring their beliefs (and your own) is constructive. "before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." Matthew 26:34. We can work collaboratively with non-believers without sacrificing our beliefs.--v/r - TP 21:33, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, we're theoretically here to build an encyclopedia, not to publish our opinions. I don't think it's unconstructive to hide our opinions here.  The less we know about each other the better as the less personal it can be.  N <sup style="color:red;">o f o rmation  <sup style="color:black;">Talk  00:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That might be fine if everyone could stick to that rule; but my experience is that people can't (on both sides).--v/r - TP 01:18, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right on most of it, TP. I personally think the whole "politically correct" thing is silly, but the user was on track to being topic banned, which can lead to indefinite blocks. It was more of a 'survival guide'. The way he phrased things was likely to shut down other users to being open towards his suggestions. Almost hostile. "Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of gentleness?" - 1Cor 4:21. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 10:51, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the current version much better. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 10:53, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District
In response to this comment, I would point out that: <span style="font-family:Antiqua, serif;">HrafnTalkStalk(P) 05:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) In the six years since KvD, there has been no attempt to re-litigate the constitutionality of teaching ID in public schools. This is probably because no school board who listens to their lawyers and insurers would be willing to take the risk (no matter how partisan they are), lacking a deep-pocketed backer willing to meet all costs (likely to run into millions).
 * 2) IDM emphasis since then has rather been on "academic freedom" to teach the "strengths and weaknesses of evolution".
 * 3) John Calvert, whose works dominate the page you cite, is a corporate lawyer not a constitutional lawyer. As far as I know, there is no significant body of opinion among genuine constitutional experts that the decision in KvD was malformed.
 * I wasn't really looking for a response. If I was, I'd write an essay. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 12:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The only point worth rebutting is the third, anyway. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow 12:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On that note, I wonder if you have any credentials which qualify you to make the judgement in point 3. Wekn  reven i susej eht  Talk• Follow