User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 1

Welcome!
Hello , and Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some good places to get you started! I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please be sure to sign your name on talk --[[User:Punk thrasher|Punk thrasher 19:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)pages]] by using four tildes to produce your name and the current date, or just three tildes ( ~   ) to produce your name only. If you have any questions, or are worried/confused about anything at all, please either visit the help desk, or leave a new message on my talk page at any time. Happy editing, good luck, and remember: Be Bold! <font ts the history of Nu Metal in general. Also, many of the edits are coming off as unencylopedic, or POV. Things such as 'metallish alternativish bands' over 'sungenre'? That some what says unecnyclopedic and POV. I do seriously think you could make this article better. In the mean time, i suggest you chalk up a temp page and make revisions there, or, do it on a word document before you save anything direct to the article, so things like this can be discussed and a consensus reached. Otherwise, go for it, but seriously, you need to start correcting the problems with the article, as at the minute, you seem to be furthering them. [[User:Leyasu|Leyasu 11:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
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You suggest a request for commments? Leyasu 15:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC) Request for comments = more comments. You also somewhat overlook, that all sources that claim Alternative Metal as a genre, contradict all sources that say Nu Metal is a genre. On the basis they both say the exact same thing. Perhaps there is a way of naming the article as so that it applys to both? A combined article, per say. Much like NSBM on the Black Metal page, Gothic Doom on the Gothic Metal page, and Vedic Metal on the Viking Metal page? This would probally be the best option, and allows for the articles to be merged with no loss of information, no loss of listing, redirct or searching. And combines them both due to the massive overlap of them being exactly the same. Agreed the timing on people vane be irritating. My plan is to wait to see what u do with the pages, and then merge them into one. Ive found several sources of my own, saying Nu Metal and Alternative Metal are names for the same thing. Alternetive Metal being a pet name for Nu Metal bands, and Nu Metal being an insult given to bands. Thus the pages still need merging, either way. Lest, ill let you make the pages better before i do a proper merger. I suggest checking the Gothic Metal temp page for what im planning to do with it. And i have someone getting citians for Korn and SOAD themselfs saying they are Nu Metal bands. Leyasu 04:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Alternative rock
I think we should decide on how to handle the infbox after we've got all the subgenres listed. If there's too many, a link to the section may be best (with the most prominent genres left in the infobox).

Adding Lollapalooza and Indie (music) sound like good ideas, though I don't think the others should be added. For one, both articles are in a constant state of disarray, with POV and other problems constantly plaguing them. Secondly, alt culture doesn't have a strong enough connection to alt rock to be of major importance. And Generation X was important, but not all members were involved in alt rock; adding it to the list may come off as a generalization.

I'm fine with the changes to Timeline of alternative rock. Good work on that.

As for the grunge/hardcore debate, I didn't mean to come across as if I was angry at you, and if I did I apologize. My problem wasn't with your suggestions, but with Leyasu's personal attacks and academic dishonesty. That said, I'm glad to have you here at Wikipedia helping to improve our articles in an honest manner. :) -- LGagnon 02:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think of emo as alt rock. It never seemed to have the connection with the rest of alt rock that the other genres had (underground in the 80s, popular in the 90s, often found to be difficult to distinguish between by the mainstream audience, just to name a few elements). Its connection to hardcore is noticable, but I'm still not sure about it being alt rock. Again, this is something that would have to be decided by citing sources (and honestly, I'd go with something other than AMG; I only use them when I know another source can back their claim). -- LGagnon 03:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Effort Pooling
Heya Hey. Not a bitch, but more a question. I know we conflict on several articles, and our efforts are pooled in different areas of priority. I was wondering if we can draw up a conclusion of articles we are both working on, as to work together to create better articles, rather than seemingly working against each other and making worse articles.

As such, i was wondering if you want to list the articles your working on, and i can see what im doing with them, and split the tasks evenly between us, so we both have clear-cut tasks, and so that our efforts are pooled together as to help each other, rather than undermine each other. As such, the articles most in question in my eyes are:


 * Alternative Metal
 * Nu Metal
 * Metal Music

Yup yup. So, i was wondering, as editors, and you as an editor i respect amongst few, what direction we are going with these articles, and what way we are best to resolve them, and what clear-cut tasks need doing with each. Leyasu 14:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok i see it like this then as plan for Metal Music, on actions to take, step by step:


 * * Step 1: You merge the historys of the two pages.
 * * Step 2: When youve merged the history ill try to expand the history to be more clear on what has happened since its writing. Ill also try to show the genres influences on each other, and note the cross-genre influencing of the present.
 * * Step 3: When ive done that, you copy edit it, coz your English is blatantly better than mine.


 * As for Alternative/Nu - Each one should better define what it is. Ill have a run over the articles after ive had sleep, and see what i can do to better define them. When ive done that, you again, just copyedit it.


 * While your at it, would you mind going over the Gothic Metal article. Im curious to see what someone with better English skills would do with it, as i appreciate the way i talk is very rant like. Leyasu 06:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Abbirition
Sorry to have to say this Wesley. Sometime ago i had to open a case of Abbirition against another user for varuous reasons. Other users involved in the case have started using the Grunge debate we were both involved in as a means of criticising me, and have also gone and asked Lgangon to give his views on me.

In kind, in light of their actions. I would ask, that you too come Here and post your view on me, my actions in the grunge debate, and your view on me and the users involved. I would also ask, if you do take this kind oppourtunity to add your view to the case, that, you would do so in kind and show no bias towards or aganist any users involved in this Abbiration case.

Oh, and get cracking on that merging :P Leyasu 12:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

hey
Good work! can you keep helping me? I'm foreing so my syntax and gramar might not be so good. I think I'd propably need some rephasing. I'll show you any sources if you need--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 07:23, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed
Agreed. That's my pov on the article lately, to be descriptive of the villains but more through the characteristics of their era rather than theirs. I'm not sure what to do with killer moth...his popularity in the past makes him kinda ok, but I need a good description of how he was a prototipe of a new kind of villain to enphasize kind of era that was--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 07:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm talking about a word or maximum 2. Like mobsters' champion... which is not ok, because that makes the character look more important than what he is.--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 07:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

By sayning just Mr. Freeze it looks like, "he is important, no need to specify powers" in contrats with Killer moth, "the anti-batman" ("oh, he was an antibatman from the 50s, that's why he made it to this paragraph")but whatever.. Sorry for my childish explaining...Again, I'm foreign.--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 08:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

confused by this:
You're right I should have payed more attention. But I fond this and I'm getting confused. There was an advertise of Batman #1 (april 25) on the Dectective comics of may? which was the 2nd robin appearence after one the mont before?? help me get this page I think you were right about golden age deadshot being Floyd, btw--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 08:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I did not know that! ...wow, 13 years reading comics now and I never knew, hahaha. You are the man, i'm gonna sleep. Great work!!--T-man... &quot;&quot;worst vandal ever&quot;&quot; 08:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Numetal
Heya, I agree that it could use subsections, that was how I was thinking when I decided on the dividers placement. I does help break up the chunk of text in the meantime though.

On a different subject, have you read Jim Derotis' Milk It! . You should check it out if you haven't. maxcap 19:47, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Children of Bodom
Im having trouble with a series of vandals on the Children of Bodom page, who are blanking, changing, removing sourced information, and rewriting the article to meet their POV of the band. I have tried warning them and discussing the problem with the users on the talk page, but this is getting nowhere but personal attacks and continued vandalism, and im way past violating the 3RR now. Ive even explained NPOV and Cite to them, the policys, and they ignored it. I dont know of many editors who work in such good faith as you, so any chance you can pop by and explain to them what they are doing is wrong, and that its vandalism, and keep an eye on the page. Leyasu 04:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ive got the users i mentioned above mostly in a dispute resoloution similar to that of an Arbcom case. Many of them claim the gramma in the original version before they edited it is off. I know your a great guy for English, so i was wondering if you could pop over to the article and give it a copyedit for grammatical and spelling mistakes. Hopefully that way, this whole revert war on the article should be nipped in the bud, and the article should be magically made better by your excellent English skills xD


 * Hope your doing well to mate. Happy Valentines Day!!!. Leyasu 07:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Needing Advice on Templates
Heya hey. Im confused about the genre templates, such as the Heavy Metal one. When writing up a genre template, do yew have to include the origins of the core genre, plus the subforms of the core genre? Ley Shade 15:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Bauhaus / L&R
I'd love to make pages for the Bauhaus, Tones on Tail, Love and Rockets, etc. albums. They could use them. It'll probably take me a while to really get around to doing a thorough job on them all, but I'll try to start with some stubs soon. Folkor 06:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Why don't I start on L&R, if you want to continue on Bauhaus, and then we can help each other out as far as formatting and knowledge goes? I think that should get a good start going. Folkor 16:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I made the Seventh Dream of Teenage Heaven page. I see what you mean - it does take a while! I also fixed up the singles table for Love and Rocekts, as it was missing all the singles that didn't chart. I've got to go to class, but I'll try to keep working on the L&R albums later. Folkor 19:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Pearl Jam vs. Ticketmaster
I don't really know much about the case; it was something I ignored back then. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistence. -- LGagnon 14:50, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject
It sounds like a good idea. User:Jmabel might also be willing to help out. -- LGagnon 16:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Im invensted in WP:HMM, so just make a Wikiproject:Rock Music. That should cover the whole scope. If yew need to, just copy the formatting ive been working on on the HP:HMM project, when its done, i can link the projects together. Ley Shade 17:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Deathrock citations
Did you have any other citations immediately in mind for cleaning up (other than the one mentioned on the talk pages). I can understand Filmgal's trepidation about this subject. She's probably poured more hours into writing and editing that article than any of the rest of us, and it looks like all she's trying to do is keep it from being hijacked by folks who have little knowledge or interest in the scene. I also understand your point that vague citation needs replaced and will in the end work against the article if it seems ambiguous. I can't see how having fewer notes would be good for the article (as feature pages are usually brimming with citations), but i'd like to see if maybe we can't all work together somehow and replace the vague citations with clear ones.--Adrift* 18:06, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Nu-metal and death metal
If that book you mentioned does connect the two genres, it may be a good idea to put the claim in quotations and footnote it. However, "Sonic similarity" sounds pretty POV and doesn't do much for the reader in explaining what it means - because both genres are loud? Being that death metal fans universally hate nu-metal (and vice versa) it would probably be better to leave out any death metal reference and just include thrash metal (in which there are mentioned examples of influences - Metallica, Megadeth, etc.) The only connection nu-metal has to death metal is that Sepultura and Fear Factory started out as the latter, other than that, there's no connection/similarity whatsoever. --Danteferno 12:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Wikiproject: Alternative music
Okay. I added my name here. Mike Garcia 22:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Count me in, I haven't been contributing so much lately, but I'll see what i can do. maxcap 13:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Metal Poll
Hello there. I am an overseer of your brain. I have come to tell you that the Wikimetal Project is holding a poll on the inclusion of certain genres on the heavy metal template and footer that goes onto metal related articles. This poll has a closing date, however, and so here i am, reminding you to vote if you want to, by pumping strange chemicals through your veins. Its hard work being a brain you know!

If you would like to help in this crucial part of the project, the page is here. No, thats not it? Oh my! I posted those pictures of myself, what a devil i am. No the actuall link is here on this link.

I guess ill see you at breakfest when you finally recover from Wikipedia. Bye for now body, your Brain 07:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:Wikiproject
I can best contribute to alt-rock topics, and yeah, I can contribute sounds and images if I find them. When the project officially starts, I can link it to the rock and roll portal. Hopefully this wikiproject will produce more music-related FA's. --Osbus 14:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Sound clips
Hi Wesley.

I've just added a sample of 'A Forest' to the Cure song page and I'll try and add some others as I go on, but I don't have any Joy Division ATM (although I do have some New Order).

If I've got a track then I'll try and upload a sample, but some tracks are difficult to edit.

Regards,

Ian Dunster 14:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added a sample of the Substance version of Blue Monday to the Substance 1987 page, but you'll need to place it where you want it on the page and add it to any other pages you think it fits. I'll try and add one other from that album (the only New Order one I have) but I don't want to take too many from any one album. Ian Dunster 14:01, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, tell me what ones you would like and I'll create the clips and upload them. I'll need to place them temporarily on an article page in order to 'anchor' them, then you can add them to the appropriate pages yourself. Ian Dunster 14:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added the other two tracks on your list that I have. If there are any tracks by other band's that you would like then let me know and I'll see if I've got them. Ian Dunster 15:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! - I didn't see that one - I've put mine up for 'Speedy deletion' and had a go at adding the original one to the London Calling article but it needs someone to tidy the link. Ian Dunster 19:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't have any Smashing Pumpkins tracks - a bit after my time. Ian Dunster 09:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

wikiproject
Sure I'm willing to do the portal and templates. Just some questions... Also, I don't think we should do any announcements just yet. We should wait until we get the portal/templates down. --Osbus 23:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * When you mean portal, do you mean an Alternative Rock portal or Alternative Music portal?
 * For the templates, I'm thinking userbox, signature thing, etc. Anything specific in mind, such as color schemes?
 * I'm sorry...get well soon! --Osbus 20:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I made the userbox and organized our templates into a graph on the project page...btw can you find another image for the userbox? I noticed the alternative rock one had the same image. Regarding your question, I think any article that falls under the alt music should have the template on their talk page, including bands/artists. Also, the template is wordy. Mind if I change it? --Osbus 00:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Alternative music
Hey, looking at your edits I thought I'd ask you if you are interested in participating in WikiProject Alternative music, which I just started.

On a related subject, I think we can work together to get R.E.M. to at least be a Good Article. I did a small edit right now but I'll work in greater depth on it later. WesleyDodds 11:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool! I think I'd be interested!  I know I've got a weird track on focusing on what interests me at any given moment, so I'm not entirely sure how much I'll be able to contribute.  But I'm definitely willing to help out where I can.


 * As far as the R.E.M. article - I got the rewrite through the end of the IRS era then got distracted. (Pretty typical for me. :))  The rest of it seems to be in better shape, but I'd still like to pull some of the OR album descriptions out of it, and maybe add facets like the Cobain/River Phoenix elements of Monster, etc. -- ChrisB 03:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

You rule
Hüsker Dü and Joy Division are way cool bands. I prefer Zen Arcade and Unknown Pleasures out of those. New Day Rising is excellent and Metal Circus, Everything Falls Apart & More as well as Land Speed Record blow my mind every time. Closer is pretty good, the synths should be removed though. "Twenty Four Hours" is my second favorite Joy Division song behind "Candidate". Have you ever listened to "Candidate" in complete darkness at a loud volume? I swear, it scared the hell out of me.

I have a friend whose name is Wess Dodd. I thought you were him the first time I saw your username! He likes the Hüskers as well! Pretty freaky coincidence. NIRVANA2764 19:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Banshees/Goth
I will not get into revert wars - and anyway it is "your" article. All I can suggest is that when you see Siouxsie and/or Severin, YOU tell THEM that they were in a goth band (I know a bloke who can knock up a suit of armour, if you like). I will not deny that they were a huge influence, and that parts of "Join Hands" were very prototypal and "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse"/"JuJu" had tracks within the genre - but their outlook and direction was not Goth. Rather, Goth took elements from them in both music and (later) style. Of course Sioux's styling, after the punk phase, is very much in keeping with Goth but Severin, McGeoch and Budgie looked "New Romantic" if anything. Last of all, much of what might be termed goth style had been long left behind toward the end of their career. I therefore contend that the Banshees were not a goth band...

I have a feeling you may also have SatB on your watchlist. Persuant to the above I have edited the intro to say that they were a punk/post punk band, who also operated within the Goth genre. I found that the article had previously been edited by people who didn't know "Janet" is Sioux's middle name (the first is Susan) and that Vicious didn't play bass until after he had drummed at the 100 Club gig. I'm all for enthusiasm, but I suspect that there are those less concerned with accuracy than pushing a point of view - this is not referring to your good self.

Oh, anyway, write it as you see fit. I'm afraid I don't agree, but not to the point where I am going to start acting silly.LessHeard vanU 21:46, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Ref your request re Banshees - I belong to a couple of sites where I am a mere novice compared to some of the members (these are SatB sites - one mentioned in the links section), so I will see if any there that are interested in contributing. I will add my tuppence worth, whatever the response. Thanks for asking.LessHeard vanU 19:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I am going to decline, for the moment, your suggestion. I am currently being kicked around by some Severin fans for daring to expand the original article from the two short paragraph stub to something like its current state. I really don't want them following me onto the SatB site, and they would likely revert any edits I make anyway. I will continue to encourage some of my other fansite members to contribute. Keep up the good work.LessHeard vanU 21:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Violent Femmes
Why did you change the genre of the record from Folk Punk to Alternative Rock? Not that it bothers me - they're a difficult band to label. But their folk punk sound is mentioned in the article. (feel free to reply here) -Freekee 01:42, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Seemed more accurate, since they are widely classified as alt-rock (and referred to as such in their article), as well as there is no mention of them in the folk punk article. It really doesn't matter what genre is ultimately listed(they're also considered New Wave as well) aside from I wanted to put them into the context of the alternative/indie scene of the 80's that they were a part of and helped pioneer.  WesleyDodds 01:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I'll try to make note of that in the article, if I ever get around to that rewrite I've been meaning to do. But... New Wave? Only in the broadest sense possible.
 * Thanks. -Freekee 02:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Smashing Pumpkins
Hi, I'm interested in finding the direct quote of Billy Corgan (about Mellon Collie and The Wall, etc) too, so I replied to your post on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative music page. Just wanted to make sure you got the message. Perhaps you can point me in a more specific direction as to where I should dig for the quote? Thanks, for now, for all the excellent work. – Cambrant 22:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

hididli ho
have you heard of an old DC character called The Sandman [the original not neil gaimans] he's got the same name as you. Unregistered text offender 12:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

SP, etc.
The Smashing Pumpkins page looks pretty good to me. The Mellon Collie-The Wall quote needs a citation, but I think the article is pretty solid. It's not on my watchlist because of the frequency of edits, number of good editors, and personal time limitation. But it looks great to me. Sorry I haven't been doing much in the way of major edits - I was finishing up a busy year of college. And soon I'll be starting a busy summer of work, but if I get the time, I'd love to do more than just look over my watchlist. I still haven't had a chance to have a go at the Cure article. I have to say, though, you're doing a great job with all your work. Keep it up. Folkor 05:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Sub Pop
Heya, I've added a bit to the Sub Pop page regarding to explore their branding in the early years, and I was wondering if you had anything you might be able to add. The only reference I have is "Our Band could Be your Life" where it's kind of mentioned fleetingly, there must be something else out there where this is discussed more in depth. maxcap 10:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Batman
You edited over my edits improwing my mistakes, I asume that's kind of Thumbs up. The thing is, after your las edit on Batman, it got reversed by somebody that already expresed the need of reducting size but likes to annoy me, and the work was stilli in progress. You know I have a lot of respect for your work, I think people always follow you after you speak or edit. I don't know how you do it, but I suck at it. What should I do? I'd be happy even with a middlepoint. I'd love some advise, help or backing from you. If you want I can leave the whole thing in your hands, it was like magic what youdid in the Enemies of Batman article.

My main idea was to have this article focusing on Modern-age Batman and cannonical data and also have all the other versions on linked sub-articles. As it used to be it was to crowded with info, it was like reading 3 bios in one single humongus article. --T-man, the wise 11:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Music of the United States
I have reverted your changes again. It is intellectually dishonest to change cited material, because the citations no longer verify the article's claims. If you have a reliable source you can cite, please explain how you propose to change the material in a NPOV-manner on the talk page. Tuf-Kat 22:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have made some tweaks to more directly state what my source says, feel free to propose further changes on the talk page. Tuf-Kat 11:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

X-Men: The Last Stand, re: Matthew Vaughn
Which two roles did Vaughn cast? I hope they are not some of the characters you left out from the cast list. I think that information would be better for the trivia section. I mean two roles isn't really a lot because most of the major actors came from the other two films. The reference to Layer Cake seems kind of unnecessary as well. Let me know your considerations. Thanks. Facto 09:05, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

X-Men: The Last Stand, re: Whedon and the Mutant Cure
I'm finding it hard to accept that Joss Whedon should get the credit for being the first to use the Mutant Cure idea when somebody else used it years before (and for all I know, that writer was influenced in turn by earlier stories). Either the entire mention of Whedon should go, or else the other writers who contributed to the development of that idea should be credited. At bare minimum, it should be mentioned that Whedon was not the first to use the idea, even if his particular version of it may have most directly influenced the film script (and how likely is it that Whedon, the geek god, wasn't aware of earlier treatments of this idea?). IMO, the scriptwriters put his character's name in there because they didn't want Whedon's fans screaming that they stole his idea. But in fact, Whedon never claimed to have come up with the idea himself. He is not the first to use it, he is not the first to delve into the ethical choices presented by it, and no Wikipedia article should expound demonstrably unfactual statements. I'm not budging on this, and I've got plenty of spare time at work. If you can come up with a version of that paragraph that will satisfy us both, feel free. But it's factually untrue that Whedon was the first to use that idea, and it's unproven he was the first to use it in an X-Men comic book. He's just one link in a chain.

9/25/06--Wesley, I saw your message, and I respect your opinion--just don't agree with it. Take a little time to compare the Mutant Cure storyline from the animated series with Whedon's much later use of it in Astonishing X-Men--Whedon's story resembles Edens' much more than either resembles the movie. In Whedon's arc, the scientist who claims to have discovered the cure turns out to be a disguised agent of Ord, an alien superbeing trying to eliminate earth's mutants--in the animated series, the scientist who claims to have discovered the cure turns out to be Mystique, working for the mutant supervillian Apocalypse--the big difference is that in Edens' story, the 'cure' simply turns mutants into servants of Apocalypse. That aside, Whedon's story is basically a much longer and more detailed version of the same story--and very different from the movie, where no supervillian is revealed to be behind the mutant cure, which was developed with good intentions, however misguided. I don't think there's a chance in hell Whedon wasn't familiar with the earlier story by Edens (I've seen him recycle other people's work repeatedly, and while I don't necessarily call it plagiarism, I don't call it original either). And therefore, even if we assume the movie's scripters were entirely influenced by Whedon, they were also indirectly influenced by Edens. Though they name one of their characters after Whedon's, it's an entirely different character that just happens to have been given the same name, probably to try and minimize complaints from Whedon's fanbase that he was being plagiarized (this is a sensitive point for the Whedon-fans, since there was talk of him writing/directing X3). The paragraph I edited did directly say that Whedon had been the first to use the idea, so I was replacing inaccurate information with correct (and impeccably sourced) information. If anything, I should have mentioned how similar Whedon's story is to the earlier one, but I figured people could find that out for themselves if they were interested.

Whatever
Yeah, well your work won't be that hard, since I won't rv more than twice a day. I proposed something with all due respect and my stalker deliberately add that crap disrespecting me. I asked for time and you are so full of yourself that won't respect that either. Yuo wan't to feel superior that's why you are doing it. Why else would you do such thing. I've asked several times to edit the article and instead just kept critizising. Even after I honestly looked up to you and even invite you over. Where did you learn to be so apathic and close minded? who did the same to you?--T-man, the wise 04:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not think you are like my stalker, but you're very mean and disrespectful. There are other ways to ofend besides obvious insults, and you cover them all. And you have been avoiding my point since the talk page of that page. I ASKED FOR TIME BEFORE THE TAG WAS PUT THERE. And you are being disrespetful first. And also very cold and sour. You impres with your edits, but when you talk your arrogance ruins it all. I'm being honest, man. At least being clowny I have fun. How do you benefit from what you do?--T-man, the wise 05:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

C'mon you know I mean no harm to you, I only expressed myself. I know a merge takes time, I asked for time before that time. I even stated that there might be a better place to put the info after improving it, but I'm asking for time. I even stated that it could be dealed with as a project not a finished article. I truly believe what I said about you, although I do assume good faith. Wikipedia states that most unaproved articles get merged mostly because of quality issues, whick I know the article had(s). I also believe that the best place for the article is the Batman article, for linking porpuses. That's why I need to work it separatedly for a while. I don't think merging an almost perfect article with one that had 12 times the word "stopped" spelled "stoped". For the 100 it's not an article yet, very rough draft to be merged. If wikipedia were printed I'd add a tag sayin this is a project under construction, not to print.--T-man, the wise 06:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Animated Series Batman
It's amazing to me how difficult this has been. The guy obviously has enthusiasm, we just need to get him to use his powers for good and not evil. --Chris Griswold 07:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Heavy metal citations
I tried to flag the more dubious ones but I'll see what I can track down. maxcap 02:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

GREEN DAY Citations
Thanks for the refs; especially for anything you can up with for the "is credited with" statements. I'm pretty sure it's a legit claim, but just in need of a solid source. I had some amount of trouble finding things to edit in this article.... --Xinit 00:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoops... I meant the cites on Green Day... I've been flipping back and forth, and I meant the comment about having trouble finding things to edit in Pearl Jam; I obviously didn't have trouble finding things in Green Day... --Xinit 00:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

hard rock wikiproject
Are you interested in helping me in creating a WikiProject in hard rock (DavidJJJ 12:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)) If you want to join, put your name on the participants section (BritisH PunK 16:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC))

In response to "Wikiproject alternative music CotW"
Alright, will do. By the way, please leave new messages at the top of my talk page. Thanks - Bagel7 06:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Never Let Me down Again
===>Capitalization Correct me if I'm wrong, but prepositions aren't to be capitalized unless they are at the begninning or end of the title, and/or they have more than five letters. Thus "Wake Me up Before You Go-Go" and "Stand Up." Let me know if I'm on the wrong track here. -Justin (koavf), talk, mail 16:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Headings in U2 Article
Hi Wes, i responded to your discussion in the U2 page. Talk:U2. I agree with you in principle, yet when i went through the article, i disagreed with the specific sub-headings you wanted removed. HOWEVER, i did go thru and remove a few from the Joshua Tree and Rattle & Hum sections after considering you point. Cheers.--Merbabu 01:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)