User talk:WesleyDodds/Archive 13

C-c-c-cucumber
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that. --JD554 (talk) 10:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hopefully I've addressed your points at The Cure discography FLC. Let me know if there's anything else. BTW, I should get around to those chart references sometime today/tomorrow. Cheers, --JD554 (talk) 08:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

"Heart-Shaped Box" done. --JD554 (talk) 12:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "All Apologies" done now too. --JD554 (talk) 13:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

If I had to hazard a guess I would say the beer! ... although probably Control. JMC seem to be just another group to jump on the nostalgia bandwagon and I really can't imagine their gigs are anything like their infamous '80s ones. Missed it when it came out but I'm hoping to get Control on DVD for Christmas (as long as my Mrs has picked on my no-so-subtle hinting). --JD554 (talk) 08:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I subscribe too, there's plenty in there Bunny related that I'll get around to using. Thanks anyway, --JD554 (talk) 10:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed you buggered about with my references ;-p But it is looking good, a cinch for GA and can't be far off FA. I've never heard the whole album (just MTV Unplugged tracks: "Dumb", "Pennyroyal Tea" and "Apologies" I think). It's a while since I listened to any Nirvana, I need to fix that. --JD554 (talk) 12:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * True fact #2: Ian McCulloch signed Glasvegas up as support for the recent Ocean Rain gig in Liverpool, telling people they were the best band since Nirvana. Personally, I think Glasvegas are in danger of becoming one-trick-ponies. --JD554 (talk) 13:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "Geraldine" is their stand-out song for me - very Phil Spector. --JD554 (talk) 13:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you're right. It's a bit dubious having an NFC image of an old version of the band. Hope you had a good Christmas, --JD554 (talk) 12:12, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * How about Badly Drawn Boy's Have You Fed the Fish? An excellent album for Sunday morning listening—an often overlooked concept by most bands in this genre. --JD554 (talk) 13:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll have to let you know later whether I should be smiling or frowning as bloody Youtube's blocked where I am at the moment :-( --JD554 (talk) 13:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that would be this one then? A band definitely passed their peak by that time. --JD554 (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. It's strange how similar drum machine sounds can either sound dated or fit. Sacraligious as it may be, but I think the drum machine on "Blue Monday" sounds dated now, but a similar sound on just about any Red Lorry Yellow Lorry song seems to fit. I don't analyse these things too closely but I guess it's to do with the overall sound of the song. --JD554 (talk) 14:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, but I'll look that up tonight (always prepared to be educated). --JD554 (talk) 14:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've not been able to get the bloody tune out of my head all day. I blame you, I really do! --JD554 (talk) 21:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

d'oh! --JD554 (talk) 13:53, 7 January 2009 (UTC) Bono? Hmm, I guess a bit, especially on "Go Square Go". Have you spotted the cringeworthy lyrics yet? --JD554 (talk) 07:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And as random statements go, that's a pretty good one. --JD554 (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Could you give Reverberation (album) a quick copyedit before I take it to GAN? I'm a little unhappy about the balance between the three prose sections, but not sure how to handle it (there's bugger all info on the recording and music available). Thanks, --JD554 (talk) 14:14, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers, you're a star. It looks a lot better. --JD554 (talk) 07:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I know they're not, but Adams said it that way. I'm happy with alt rock though. By the way White Lies could be a band to listen out for. Another post-punk revival band with shades of Joy Division, Bunnymen etc. But unlike Editors, they seem to acknowledge their roots ;-) --JD554 (talk) 08:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Am I being unfair? --JD554 (talk) 19:47, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Picked up a cheap copy of the First and Last and Always CD yesterday as I haven't listened to the album for years. When I listened to it I was struck by the similarity of the music with the first two Bunnymen albums (ignoring Eldritch's and McCulloch's singing): particularly Gary Marx/Will Sergeant's guitar and the Dr Avalanche/de Freitas's drumming. I was bit surprised by that. --JD554 (talk) 08:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I preferred The Reptile House EP, but the release of First and Last and Always was the beginning of their downward spiral. Thankfully the early singles and EPs are compiled on Some Girls Wander By Mistake. --JD554 (talk) 09:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I suspect the somewhat predictable answer for me would be War, although The Joshua Tree would be a close second. I really went off their stuff from Achtung Baby onwards (although I haven't heard much I can remember from the last two albums). I quite like the new album cover, my first thought when seeing was "ooh post-punk". It seems reminiscent of Joy Division/New Order covers. But it's the music that counts and I'll reserve judgment on that for the time-being. --JD554 (talk) 10:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ian McCulloch gives the (probably apocryphal) story about when U2 were supporting The Bunnymen in the early days that Bono thanked the audience during the sound-check. --JD554 (talk) 10:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * They did indeed. British papers (particularly at weekends) quite often give away old CDs or DVDs as promotional items with every copy. We have about 9 or 10 national papers compared to most American markets which only have 1 or 2. --JD554 (talk) 10:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Prince even gave away his most recent album free with the Mail on Sunday newspaper. But mostly it seems to be DVDs of old films at the moment. --JD554 (talk) 11:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I had AGF'd those references which now looks like it was a mistake: The New Zealand (two Scapolo references) chart positions are different here, the Australian (Kent) chart positions are the same here (but no position for "All Apologies"), the Belgian position (Colin) can't be confirmed here and the Finnish position (Pennanen) can't be confirmed here either. I think it's probably best to go with the website positions as we can immediately confirm these rather than trying to track someone with the books to confirm the positions and page numbers. It may be Friday before I can make these changes though as I'm on a course at the moment. --JD554 (talk) 21:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good plan. The Joy Division albums certainly deserve to be better the start class. --JD554 (talk) 12:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think a lot of editors tend to stick with their own little projects for their main contributions (like me with Bunnymen stuff). But, yeah, you would think more would be interested working on Joy Division related articles, especially when you see how popular the band's article is. --JD554 (talk) 12:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking back at In Utero, you started to edit it heavily in July 2007, but viewing stats don't go back that far. So picking December 2007 the average number of views per day was 1.4 thousand. They've now gone up by more than a third to 1.9 thousand views per day. That tells you that readers appreciate it and this tells you that other editors do too. --JD554 (talk) 13:00, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you know, I don't even like The Killers' "Human" either. --JD554 (talk) 07:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't say I've ever noticed. "Laid" is their best, but I'm quite partial to "Hymn from a Village" and "Tomorrow" as well. --JD554 (talk) 10:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Just noticed your edit summary: hah! yes, but with more style --JD554 (talk) 10:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

People who say they like Metal Machine Music can't possibly realise what they're saying. --JD554 (talk) 07:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, I was listening to Transformer this morning ... classic. --JD554 (talk) 08:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I thought you'd like it ;-) --JD554 (talk) 09:12, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Redirecting traditionnal heavy metal
I saw the redirection made by you. I know you're a decent contributor and I know the good job you've done so far but I'm a bit annoyed because it looks like an drastic arbitrary decision made without any consensus. Note there was a vote for supression of this article in may, and the result was a consensus to keep this article as it is.

Now, in the present case, maybe I missed something but I didn't see any vote or consensus about such a move. So I tend to find a bit excessive this change. But please, don't take the revert as a personal offense. I know you didn't do it out of bad faith or something. But I'd like to see a consensus before making such a drastic move. Yeah, don't bother explaining me why you did this move, I know why you did it. You think is it is redundant. And I perfectly understand your reasons, but I disagree. This article is not meant to be the same thing as the heavy metal music article.

Note the heavy metal music article deals with the global genre also known as "metal" including every subgenre. This article is dedicated to the primarly metal subgenre. But yes, you're right, the general article indeed refers to traditional heavy metal among others subgenres, no question about this, but this is not exclusively its main focus. Now this article deals with this music specifically just like every subgenre(death metal, black, gothic metal and so on) has their own article dedicated. Actually there's a constant misunderstanding about the existence of this article, because of the confusion concerning the term heavy metal as there are several uses and several meanings of the term "heavy metal". ( My claim is not a POV of mine, as you might think, I have provided several published sources about this constant confusion). This article is meant to develop further certain aspects mentioned in the general article, not just being a copy-paste. Besides note I had provided published sources for this article before, but for some reasons my earlier version has been deleted despite the numerous sources. And I didn't feel like "figthing" once again at the time cause I didn't have the time to. The sucessive changes turned the previous article into a minimalist, useless and incoherent article. But it wasn't exactly like this before. Fred D.Hunter (talk) 14:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Help!
No, I only have the Everret True book. indopug (talk) 13:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fucking NME. Funny how the Wikipedia Blur article invariably gets updated every time the NME hype machine crosses paths with Blur. indopug (talk) 16:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Obvious source that hasn't been used yet. I'll look for more. indopug (talk) 11:43, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What is the best music video ever? No need to rack your brain, its this one. indopug (talk) 21:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, that's the first time I've ever been Rick roll'd. But the second video wasn't available in my country, what was it? indopug (talk) 03:31, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This makes me want to kick somebody, throw a trash-can through a window, and jump against a wall. All at the same time.
 * In more mundane news, I've gotten bored of the Modern Life Is Rubbish article; you once said that you had Britpop-related info to add. Once that's there, I'll write a lead and ship it off for GA. As for Nirvana articles, I'm on holiday for the next week so I'll contribute what I can from the True book. indopug (talk) 18:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh I often get more wildly conflicted than that; everytime I think of working at "Song 2" or "Country House" or a Blur album FA, I immediately go "Really? Rather than help rectify the fact every band article from the sixties and seventies is shit?" Bah. indopug (talk) 13:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Lulz indeed! As for WP:CHART, I remember that while helping set guidelines for the discography project, we found CHART to be completely incompatible with any logical discography format. So the MOS:DISCOG was made instead. I presume the ten limit is for avoiding, like, 100 charts to be listed on, say, the Thriller article. indopug (talk) 13:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Like, is this legal? Also, there's a huge GA backlog, so . . . its rather ironic that something that isn't even on the list would get promoted. indopug (talk) 06:42, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, silly me. To clear the air I offer my favourite Nirvana song. indopug (talk) 06:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In exchange for that, I need you to let me put this in the article's external links. indopug (talk) 14:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * You mean Ziggy isn't your favourite David Bowie album? I really fell for that whole "rock star alien" thing when I used listened to it repeatedly a few years ago. indopug (talk) 11:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'd didn't get Low either. I've actually only really enjoyed his "glam rock" phase, ie Ziggy and Hunky Dory (which is actually more subtle and consistent than Ziggy, the way Modern Life is with Parklife). I really hate Man Who Sold by the way; Cobain's cover is the far superior version. indopug (talk) 11:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Funniest. Infobox. Ever indopug (talk) 12:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yesterday this question popped into my head, and I don't think I can carry on until I get a definitive answer—Could it just be that Black Sabbath's first three albums are better than Led Zeppelin's? indopug (talk) 14:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Pfffffffffft. My favourite of the six (first 3 Zep + 3 Sab) is actually Black Sabbath, which I think is better than Led Zeppelin (for one, the vocalist doesn't sing the word "Babe" 87 times in a row). By the way, I think you totally deserve a barnstar for this. indopug (talk) 15:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, the Zep will always remain my favourite band ever (note that I didn't include IV on the negotiating table). Its just that really discovered Black Sabbath (in particular the song "Black Sabbath") only recently and I've had to reconsider the 70s rock hierarchy. On a related note, I'm thinking of beginning "Stairway to Heaven" by next week with Hammer of the Gods as my main source... indopug (talk) 07:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Awww, the big bad wock cwitic picked on poor widdle Bwack Sabbath, and now the fan-boy and his friend were scandalised. Therefore...they want Wikipedia's guidelines to change. Ok.
 * Do you think the IP has a point/is right regarding the Britpop sentence? indopug (talk) 16:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Today's topic: Guilty Pleasures (but thou shalt not judge). I'm rather embarrassed to admit that my favourite soundtrack ever is the bastard child of indie film and indie pop (then again, I haven't bothered to listen to too many soundtracks). And while I know they suffer from over-hype and you think they're shit ... I think Vampire Weekend is good fun. Your turn. indopug (talk) 15:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Couple of things: Didn't Courtney Love kick up a huge fuss during the In Utero sessions, bossing everybody around and yelling and shit? (And shouldn't that be in the article?) If you want a couple more contemporary reviews from mainstream American newspapers, I'll search. In particular I think there should be reviews by Greg Kot and Jim DeRogatis (for the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune). indopug (talk) 16:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Dude, what the fuck are the first two sentences of that article? Are they even sentences? I've added those In Utero reviews I was telling you about. The last line of Kot's review is very touching, by the way. indopug (talk) 16:48, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What genre would you peg Leisure as? I think alt rock is a little too general. Magazine articles I've read say that Balfe wanted to keep Blur in a zone within striking distance of both the Shoegazers and the Madchester/Baggy camp. They were dubbed "indie dance"; but that article redirects to "alternative dance" which doesn't even mention Blur. indopug (talk) 13:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've actually been meaning to bring this for a while now: for British groups should we be calling them "indie" instead of "alternative rock"? (since they are the same thing, we can link it as indie ) Fact is, outside of Wikipedia, I haven't seen any sources call British groups "alternative". The way I see it, indie/alternative usage should be similar to the way we use colour/color for British/American articles. indopug (talk) 15:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My point is that if 90% of sources (which may happen to be British-based) call The Smiths an indie band, we should probably do the same. If GOTH! and Radiohead aren't termed indie, neither should we. :::In kinda related news, as much as I love Blur, I think Definitely Maybe is the best album to come out of Britpop. Funny story: You'd be surprised to know that although Oasis were pretty big in my college, it was primarily for ballads like "Wonderwall", "Don't Look Back" and "Stop Crying Your Heart Out". It wasn't until Wikipedia and a bunch of documentaries I saw that I discovered their first album (which I hadn't even heard of it in college) and the fact that Oasis were fuckin' badass, not Coldplay. indopug (talk) 15:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Find The Girl While You Can
I hate exams. The stress ends up forcing me to smoke nearly a pack a day. I fucking hateeeeeeeeeeeee it. In case you were wondering why I haven't been editing as much these past few days... NSR 77 T 22:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * What happened to your talk page? You archived it already? NSR 77  T 01:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I swear to god if I hear Billy Corgan speak one more time I will slap him. He always bitches and wines everywhere he goes. Now he says he is refusing to play any old songs, blah blah blah. "Live in the now." Ough. He's such a whiny megalomaniac. The dude needs to realize that no one really gives a shit about the "band" (or whatever the hell he likes to call it) of today; they are, or were, popular because of Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie, etc. They're also apparently going to become a "singles band". I highly doubt he can get the Pumpkins back into the mainstream, simply because people are over his passe bullshit. Even their die-hard fans can't stand him. NSR 77  T 23:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with you. Billy definitely needs someone who will contradict him. Right now he's just feeding more fuel to his ego, which is badly hurting the Pumpkin's music and image. But, really, their reputation was pretty much destroyed when Billy decided to bring the band back without D'arcy and James. The reason I cared that they came back in the first place was because I was able to go to one of their shows, but if Billy plans to basically eliminate the older material then they might as well stay dead. It's almost becoming a sad joke at this point. NSR 77  T 18:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I read that right after I read the original interview. It's not a very good clarification at all. Billy obviously loves to talk about himself and the laughable band he still has behind him. Oh well. At least Jimmy's still a good guy. NSR 77  T 23:22, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * D'arcy was always my favorite member of the Pumpkins, anyway. NSR 77  T 23:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I still resent the fact that you like Green Day. Meh. I'll get over it, one day. Personally that never really happened to me because my favorite band, the Chili Peppers, were always about love and all that shit and they never tried to be aggressive assholes (though Flea and Anthony can be particularly huge ones if they so desire). John was pretty immature when he first joined the band but it's clear now that he's all about being positive and being just a musician; and since I always looked up to him the most I got a different sense of things. Cobain never struck me as being a role-model, despite being the King of Grunge and the Gen-X movement. He's not so great at playing guitar live, either, so I never really looked up to him in a guitar playing respect. I really love The Cure and what they were all about. They were a very happy and down to earth group of guys, and Robert's just ridiculously modest. Plus the 80s were all about exuberance and neon-colors if you ask me. NSR 77 T 23:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's not forget the Gallagher brothers! Two exceptionally magnanimous fellows! NSR 77  T 23:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hahaha. That makes me laugh, actually. It's not like Billy is a total asshole because he was extremely kind when I met him. He spoke a bit about the 20th Anniversary Tour and I sense a bit of anger in his voice. He's definitely vocal and curses liberally, but perhaps it comes off worse in text. Then again, maybe not. Regardless, he's clearly "The Smashing Pumpkins". NSR 77  T 00:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Soundclips always confused the heck out of me. I always asked Giggy for those, and he's left for the time being. I'm sure there's someone else out there that will do it. Otherwise I'll see what I can dig up. NSR 77  T 15:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Was going to go to this but ended up not because none of my friends could do it on such short notice. Bloody hell, though, it would have been an amazing show. I've seen Frusciante at the Troubadour and it's an incredible venue. NSR 77  T 01:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * So is this. I can tell you that when they played it when I saw them the crowd was (unfortunately) nowhere near as nuts as this. That must have been a damn good performance. NSR 77  T 20:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I read through In Utero and I don't find it to be particularly good, no offense. It seems like it was all written in fragments here and there and that you didn't have enough of a hand in it (because if you had it would be 100 times better). Take it or leave it, but you need to work on it more. NSR 77 T 23:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Watch this from 5:33. Anthony also talks about the video for "Sive" and basically why he wanted the Pumpkins on the Blood Sugar Sex Magik tour with them. NSR 77  T 00:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And I didn't mean it to be offensive at all. I hope you didn't take it that way, because (obviously) you're capable of writing a Featured article. NSR 77  T 04:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I always thought the inclusion of "Sikamikanico", a b-side, in Wayne's World was not only random but funny. Especially the scene in which it's played; Meyers is just like "LETS PUT ON SOME TOOOONSSS" and then I always think "What makes a Chili Peppers' song appropriate here?" NSR 77  T 03:35, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm getting sick and tired of people who think all images are bad ones and have reason to be removed. Someone deleted the Big Lebowski screenshot from Flea and are requesting the other one be removed as well. I don't understand the need for such ridiculous bullshit. Images are meant to enhance the article; it isn't like Flea has 5 non-free images in his article where one would have reason to be alarmed and request action. NSR 77  T 17:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas to you too, man! Here's something that may put a smile on your face. I think they have one about Nine Inch Snails, too. Haha. NSR 77 T 16:27, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing. There's a lot of things I'm currently thinking of working on, among them "Give It Away" and Freaky Styley as well as Slovak. I also kind of want to work on Anthony Kiedis or Chad Smith because both of their pages are pitiful to put it mildly. Anthony's would be a bitch of information to deal with, though, because he basically documents every single girl he ever slept with in Scar Tissue; compelling memoir material indeed. Mother's Milk I'm planning on finishing tonight. If you want to begin copyediting feel free! The sooner you do it the better chance I can have it featured by the end of the month as to not have another no-FA-for-WP:ALM. NSR 77  T 23:51, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have bad, bad memories of trains. Where did you head off to for the Holidays? NSR 77  T 00:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind it is, after all, Jane's Addiction. While they produced outstanding material in their heyday it wasn't until later on that they achieved more "success" (and even that's limited). So they're definitely not the most written about band in modern rock history. NSR 77  T 08:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to say 2008 was a horrible year in music. Aside from MGMT's record (which wasn't earth-shattering, though) I hated everything else. Rock music, in general, seems to be dying even moreso than I had anticipated. NSR 77  T 02:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I actually didn't like Stereolab's new album. I saw them a couple months ago and they were incredible, but I felt like their new album was more of the same. A repeat of basically the past two releases. I didn't like MGMT at first but they're basically the college rock band of 2008. I couldn't avoid them at school, so it grew on me. Come to think of it, Born Ruffians released an absolutely incredible album. I saw them along with Vampire Weekend (bleh) over the summer in New York and VP was absolutely horrible, but the Born Ruffians are probably the only band that impressed me very much in a long time. NSR 77 T 03:09, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They were awful. Born Ruffians opened for them and everyone I was with loved them and we actually left halfway through Vampire Weekend (plus it was raining harder than I think it ever did in the history of man-kind). I'm actually pretty excited for a band called Crystal Castles, which I am going to go see New Years Eve in Brooklyn. Apparently they're good electronica, but whenever someone tells me that it always turns out to be mediocre techno-wannabes. Hopefully, though, the liquor will be strong and marijuana potent. NSR 77  T 03:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha. I saw them at the Henry Fonda Theater, which is in Hollywood. That night I had taken mushrooms and I ended up in Venice at 6 in the morning with very little clue as to how I got there and very little recollection of what I had done. NSR 77  T 03:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of it can be trimmed, you're right. I'll probably combine a couple sentences or cut some things. Chart-wise I'm good, especially considering Mother's Milk only peaked in a couple countries and the singles didn't stray much farther than the "good 'ole USA". NSR 77  T 03:44, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Bit of a shoddy copy and paste job if I do say so myself. NSR 77 T 16:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't follow. If you mean the newspapers that are used throughout the article, then I got those dates from the database User:Xihix gave us all those months ago. NSR 77  T 01:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I was listening to WRXP while driving yesterday and the DJ mentioned how much of an idiot Billy Corgan is for his recent statements and started having a discussion about it with another radio personality. It was quite funny and shows just how badly people are reacting to Corgan these days. NSR 77  T 03:03, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The fuck? I hate right-wing ultra-ultras. Its so passé. What are your final ideas on Mother's Milk. I want to check it off my list soon. NSR 77  T 03:33, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There's only so much I feel cutting would accomplish. If too much is removed it'll come up short and almost arbitrary. But I will honor your requests because they are valid. It needs a copyedit; I've contacted Indopug and JD554 for assistance but no replies as of yet. NSR 77  T 03:41, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would've asked Giggy because he was the most reliable and kind bloke on the planet but he's gone for the time being. :( NSR 77  T 03:46, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, when I do mingle my way into the bureaucracy of Wikipedia (on the rare occasion) I find myself constantly frustrated. Too much negative energy for me. It's just not my cup of tea. I do hope he comes back, though. I see you're working on 1979. Should be a nice bucket of sources you can pull from, no? NSR 77  T 03:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Ideally you could take "In Bloom" to FA. I mean, Grim-Gym and I brought Niandra Lades and Usually Just a T-Shirt there and it passed with flying colors, despite being very short. As long an article is thorough in all corners of the respective topic it should have no limits. What happened to this famed Siamese Dream tab book you had? NSR 77 T 04:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm missing something. If its a Siamese Dream tab book then why on earth would it contain information about "1979", a song that was released two years later and before Billy even dreamed of naming an album Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. NSR 77  T 04:10, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, that clears things up. Now, let me ask you: why the fuck do you think Kurt neglected to put perhaps the best In Utero-era song, "Sappy" (or "Verse Chorus Verse"), on the actual album? Worst idea in history. He could have easily trashed "tourettes" for that incredible gem of a track. NSR 77  T 04:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Still, its a great track. Much better than half of the record, even if Kurt didn't like the way it came out. On the discussion at WT:ALM, I don't think there's any specific procedure for changing them over. If a project is blatantly inactive and no one will miss it then I would just set up a task force sub-page and then have the original page redirected there. NSR 77  T 04:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I completely forgot about the templates. Perhaps you should just forget about it out of sheer laziness? I mean, I would assume a bot would be involved for the number of talk pages that would need altering. It is a good idea though, especially for those projects that have been collecting dust for a good year and a half. Oh, and potential newsletter quote from Robert Smith: "Our records always go down after we do Top of the Pops. We actually do the show as a career move to stop ourselves from becoming too famous." I know you don't like using quotes from the same band twice, but I don't think anyone will mind backtracking from time to time. NSR 77  T 04:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If I had a dime for every amusing thing Flea has ever said I'd probably be a very wealthy man. I can find you one, if you would like. NSR 77  T 04:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Tell me if you don't like it because I could easily find another one: "Anthony's a sex symbol. You see the thing is for the girls they're like 'oh Anthony he's so beautiful! And his muscles and his hair and oh golly he's so sexy!' but with me its like [with men] 'DUDE YOU'RE SO AWESOME...WOW DUDE. WOW!" NSR 77 T 04:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This one is actually how they got the title of Mother's Milk, so maybe you want to save it for next month when it'll be featured? "I've been drinking a lot of mother's milk from my wife's tit." NSR 77  T 05:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, here's a very bizarre one from Anthony: "'Good Time Boys' is a hardcore crunching funk song that sounds like twenty-five garbage trucks being pushed off the Capitol tower and landing onto the naked rear-end of President Bush, filling his entire anal orphus with garbage." NSR 77  T 05:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I never did like "Bullet" very much, actually. It's definitely my least favorite Smashing Pumpkins' hit. "Mountain Song" is much better, anyway. NSR 77  T 06:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the production, clearly. You're right. Dave Navarro is actually quite a good guitarist; with the right producer, One Hot Minute for example, he shines. That record is actually really really good and only overlooked because of Chili Peppers fans who don't like Navarro. One Hot Minute is so dynamic and so interesting and Dave clearly has a huge effect on the Peppers; some songs don't exactly work that well but I think if they had recorded a second album together it would have been fantastic. Not to dis Frusciante, because I'm obviously obsessed with him, but Navarro is indeed a good guitarist and one can not deny this fact. Jane's Addiction records as a whole suffer form poor and rather shoddy production, if you ask me. I like them, though. NSR 77  T 06:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * We'll its quite true. I don't think I know a single female who likes Flea as much as any dude. Women love Anthony, though. Or, at least when he had beautifully flowing long hair. NSR 77  T 06:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem. It'll be interesting to finally work on a Pumpkins article. Oh, shit. I just realized there are no sound clips for Mother's Milk...........Damnit Giggy! NSR 77  T 07:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * After about an hour of teaching myself how to use Audacity and whatnot, I can now upload sound files to Wikipedia. NSR 77  T 19:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's a MUCH better one from Flea: "WE'RE THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS. I'M FLEA THIS IS ANTHONY. IN A LITTLE BIT WE'RE GONNA GET NAKED. WE'RE GONNA TAKE OF ALL OUR CLOTHES AND JUMP UP ON THE STAGE. WE'RE GONNA DO IT AT 12:45 EXACTLY SO SET YOUR WATCHES! EVERYBODY SYNCHRONIZE THE TIME! I'M PRETTY SURE YOU'LL BE SEEING OUR FUCKING COCKS!" NSR 77 T 20:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you want me to upload a sound clip of "In Bloom"? I just noticed there isn't one. NSR 77  T 20:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Zwan was respectable. Since I saw the Pumpkins most recently I've actually not listened to them at all and have a very adverse feeling if I do. Billy was nice and all but the horrendous atmosphere of the crowd at the 20th Anniversary made me really "bleh" over their music. When Zeitgeist was coming out I was really excited, yeah. The record peaked pretty damn high in the US and produce a modest few singles but I think Billy's just going to screw up this whole reincarnated Pumpkins. Punishing your life long fans is not the way to go. I still can't figure out why he would refuse to play old material and still insist the band is called 'Smashing Pumpkins'. His whole thought process on that is quite confusing. I don't know how you feel about it but I would imagine Billy stumps many, many people. NSR 77  T 21:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually thought the Chili Peppers were merely on a hiatus because of all the work they have done in the last ten years until Frusciante got really irritated in a recent interview on the subject. He got to the point where he said "we can stop the tape" even, which scared me a little bit. In the end he said something to the effect of "we've been doing this for ten years and there are more important things in life." On top of saying there are "absolutely no plans" I'm going to take a guess that there won't be another Chili Peppers album for a while. :( NSR 77  T 21:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "Heart Shaped Box" is a must. The other one will probably be "All Apologies". NSR 77  T 22:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My vote is for "Serve the Servants" but "Scentless Apprentice" is also a good choice. "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter" is quite noisy, though. NSR 77  T 22:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you think of the article The Battle of Britpop? Its useless and not exactly encyclopedic. It could easily be merged with Britpop. NSR 77  T 22:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps. I'll see what you come up with before making my final decision but it looks like over-indulgences as it is now. And are you planning on reviewing Mother's Milk? The FAC is really quiet. NSR 77  T 20:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Am I missing something here? What does this guy want? Tolhurst is already given credit in the personnel section... NSR 77  T 21:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * We can definitely get the Gothic rock article up to snuff. I'm going to begin "Give It Away" this weekend and I'll also start looking at sources for "1979" as well. NSR 77  T 01:11, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm kind of surprised Radiohead was put up for FAR. I don't think it was really all that necessary a tool to resolve an issue. NSR 77  T 21:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed in one of your edit summaries in "Give It Away" you mentioned Michael Gondry likes the video. Where did you get the info from? NSR 77  T 02:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks anyway. I'm trying to get some more info on the response from the video because Apter doesn't really talk about it a whole lot (he's far too busy swooning over the huge success of "Under the Brdge" and probably forgot to even talk about "Give It Away" at length and how important that single was). Also I'm going to get "In Bloom" uploaded so I'll do "Heart Shaped Box" and "????" at the same time. What is the second In Utero track you needed? NSR 77  T 03:17, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

On the Chili Peppers' Greatest Hits and Videos each video had special commentary by the band and (sometimes) the director. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Sednaoui is present for "Give It Away". I know he talks about a couple of the four videos he's directed for the band and I'm positive "Around the World" is one of them so I'm hoping "Give It Away" is another. Even if there isn't Kiedis talks quite a bit about the video in Scar Tissue so there's no problems with information regarding the video. I don't want to waste money on the Sednaoui compilation and it turns out he doesn't comment on "Give It Away". Actually I just looked at the page on Amazon and only "Scar Tissue" is included. That's hilarious considering the cover of it is actually John in his glittery pants from the "Give It Away" video. NSR 77 T 03:37, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait, nevermind it does. I'm an idiot and looked over it. Anton Corbijn is an incredible music video director. He directed the Chili Peppers' "My Friends" in '95 and it turned out to be an absolutely fantastic piece of material, albeit very obscure and rather avant-garde. It's not a surprise to me that they shot another version that was more "mainstream". "Heart Shaped Box" is by far Nirvana's best video. NSR 77  T 03:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is quite good. One video I don't like all that much is actually "Losing My Religion". I was never fond of the direction they took or the fact that the Indian director put way too much Hindu imagery in it that doesn't fit the lyrics at all. NSR 77  T 04:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a couple times bands make amazing videos and then there are other times where they just flop. "In Bloom" never did much for me; I don't quite get what Kurt was attempting to convey but I personally think it ended up failing. The video for "Knock Me Down" is absolutely horrible and looks like it was shot with a budget of $200. "Tonight, Tonight" always bothered me, but then again I was never in love with the song. Same goes for "Just Like Heaven"; and I never figured out what the point of the video for "Lovesong" was. Its basically just Robert sitting there for 4 minutes. NSR 77  T 04:23, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't like The Smiths? Since when? Then why did you work on "This Charming Man"? NSR 77  T 04:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I like The Smiths but hate Morrissey. The only reason I don't despise them like I do Oasis is because Johnny Marr is a good guy, and they were relatively short-lived and not utter assholes as the Gallagher brothers are ("we're bigger than god" etc. etc.). It is too bad that Bauhaus never achieved the level of fame The Cure or (to some extent) Siouxsie & the Banshees did. Bauhaus was quite, quite good; The Sky's Gone Out proves this. NSR 77  T 05:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oasis 100% copied T.Rex's beautiful "Get It On" in "Cigarettes and Alcohol". One-hundred-per-fucking-cent. Didn't even give the great Marc Bolan any damn songwriting credit, either. Bastards. NSR 77  T 04:59, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * How is Dig Out Your Soul? I heard it was rubbish. I laughed thoroughly when the record didn't even break the Top 5 of the Billboard 200. NSR 77  T 05:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "I'd Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)" is quite possibly the worst song of the 90s. I can't believe that record was sandwiched in between In Utero and Vs. NSR 77  T 18:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Watchmen Opening Chapter One
I stand corrected. I had forgotten that the murder was framed as a flashback. Please forgive me. wcf Facts are stubborn. Comments? 00:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for November 2008
SoxBot II (talk) 02:51, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Too busy for Britney?
Hi! Long time no chat. My finals are over and I was wondering if you'd be up for reviewing Britney Spears. Over winter I'd like to get it up to FA if possible. I'll probably open a peer review tomorrow. The Bookkeeper  (of the Occult)  08:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Peer review open The Bookkeeper   (of the Occult)  09:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The funk
I like 'em links quite, but as I'm such a cranky fucker - this is the most archatypical white boy tune I can think of, Irish band too. Bass line worthy of Kim Deal Ceoil (talk) 05:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

In the Cold, Cold Night
Hey, mate, good to hear from you. I took a semi-break from Wikipedia for a few months. Some of that I was able to spend traveling in Spain, sampling tapas and grilled squid and listening to their truly excellent national alt-music station: RNE 3. Now I'm back, pondering deep matters. Like, I never listened to The Go-Betweens during their first tenure or their comeback, though I kept hearing how brilliant they were. So I'm listening now and they're just really...nice. On the other antipodean hand, I've been in a serious Chills mood. I've made a pledge to myself to not take a lead on any more major projects here for a while (when I think of how much of my life I've now devoted to heavy metal music...thanks, A.J.) But if you could use a hand with anything, let me know. Left to my own devices, I'll just pursue cheap kicks on Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. Best, Dan.—DCGeist (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow. No shit, I was listening to Beefheart's Clear Spot when I read your message. I'm s-o-o ready to help when I'm sober again.—DCGeist (talk) 09:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

In Utero
Nice work! I made a few minor edits and additions to the article, but most of the info in Heavier than Heaven is either redundant or unnecessary. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 01:55, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

New wave revival
Have you seen this new article created by OregonD00d? I am not very sanguine as to its chances of survival. The one source he has, an allmusic.com article, undercuts the very notion of a revival. That does not bode well. The New Wave revival category is currently listed at CFD, by the way. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 02:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I will put all three up for AfD sometime this week. None of them are useful.  Cheers! ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  15:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Aahhh... I see you redirected this. Good call.  If he given it any thought, he would have capitalize the "W". ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  17:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Update on progress
OK, all the singles (and D.S. (song)) bar "They Don't Care About Us" are GA. TDCAU should be reviewed in the next week. BTW, what do you think of TDCAU? Do I have enough information for FA do you think? Once TDCAU passes GA I'll move on to some of the remix album stuff. — Realist  2  03:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

First-sentence genres
I just like how the generality is suited to every reader, particularly those who might not be familiar with subgenres. Specifically, it tells the reader "okay you're dealing with a rock band here" and then talks about their exact style and subgenre(s) later in the article. I think it's a lot cleaner and encyclopedic that way. And lastly, like Lemmy said, "It should just be rock & roll... In the old days the police were the enemy, and everybody else was together against the enemy and we've lost that now. Now everybody's super-categorized... it's fucking bullshit." --Tim010987 (talk) 11:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Watchmen
I would prefer a discussion on hwo to deal with all of the Watchmen character articles. I object to having no plot summary at all on Rorshach but extensive plot summaries for Nite Owl, Silk Spectre, etc. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well if that's the case, then I have no further objections. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

What exactly do you need? I don't have a copy of the book on me and it's the holidays so I don't have access to school scanners. Alientraveller (talk) 08:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, so what do you want? Alientraveller (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, happy holidays! I am going to retire User:Erik/Watchmen, and I was wondering if there was anything that needed to be listed on the talk page, such as the academic journals. I ask since you explored all these resources more thoroughly than I ever did! Let me know so I can export any useful items for future development. — Erik (talk • contrib) 18:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Magazine tracking
Sure...what are you looking for specifically? Material related to In Utero? Congratulations on Watchmen, by the way. Terrific piece.—DCGeist (talk) 06:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The NY Public Library has nearly complete back issue runs or microfilm for all three magazines. They're all held as reference material at the Library for the Performing Arts. The next time I'm in the neighborhood (probably after New Year's), I can find the Spin review of the album (pretty safe to assume there was one) and the results of the 1993 NME poll.—DCGeist (talk) 08:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

In Rainbows
Hi. I'm a bit concerned about this edit; while it is true that the lead section of an article is supposed to reflect its contents, this isn't a valid justification for removing noteworthy information altogether -- in this case, the fact that the album in question has received multiple Grammy nominations. Anonymous editors aren't expected to know or understand WP:LEAD; part of our job as regular editors is to organise incoming useful contributions from anonymous editors according to the MOS, and to help them get acquainted with our peculiar ways of article-building. The anonymous editor, who is now frustrated, has re-added the information a couple of times. This isn't a good path to attracting new contributors. Thanks.  Warren -talk- 04:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Hallelujah
Thanks for the help trying to find some sources. If I'm after a specific type of sources, I'd say reception and third-party analysis; with the current peak in interest, it'll bring the production aspect into the light while burying the reception sources. It's funny, because normally I have trouble finding production sources but not reception sources >_> Sceptre (talk) 19:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Coldplay songs
Hey Wesley, what's up? Sorry that it took me this long to respond back, but I have been busy with some articles here and there, so I'm here responding back. Thank you for the compliment regarding the Coldplay songs, I was just doing my part with getting the songs to GA and having them improved and stuff, and I will take your advice to coming to you when I have a question. :) Listen, there's this IP who's undoing edits like these,  , and I wanted your take on it. --   ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I just wanted your input on this, so thank you. Also, there's a discussing going about this matter, here. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Rorschach
You may want to check out the talk page for this character's page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.165.70 (talk) 07:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Bikini Atoll
Is being recorded by Steve Albini and receiving reviews in the national press no longer enough to establish notability? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 17:29, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I can change it so it mentions the Uncut review instead if you would prefer that. The quotation from The Independent is already cited and sourced from the online source. As a member of WikiProject Alternative Music I'm sure you're very aware that neither NME nor Q magazine provide online archives of their published review material, thus the reason they are only cited when discussing tours, charts and general news, so asking me to find the original material is asking nothing less than going out and buying the old magazines. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 23:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Can I just enquire as to how notibility for this project differs from general Wikipedia guidelines? Bikina Atoll released two albums on the Bella Union label that has other notable artists (Fleet Foxes, Andrew Bird) on it, see http://www.bellaunion.com/artists.php. This satisfies criterion 5 of 'Criteria for musicians and ensembles', doesn't it? Therefore they are eligible for a page and, unless this project does have different notibility guidelines, membership of this project. Also, if you don't deem the article notable, you should, in theory, nominate it for deletion. I've made further references available as well. I'm still fairly new to Wiki-dom and have every intention of doing my best to improve all pages I can and therefore would appreciate any lessons that you can impart if I am in the wrong. Fol de rol troll (talk) 23:22, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!
Have a great holiday, Wesley :-) - Take care and have a Happy New Year! Scarian  Call me Pat!  12:34, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Help on article
Hi Wesley! Could you check on the english on The AccoLade (band). Also if possible help me expand the article. Thanks. --STTW (talk)  10:49, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Why not?
Read the pages, I think it's easy to see that the guy who'se set up that site has copied out each chart position from reliable sources. I challenge you to find me a wrong placement in the thousand of listings he's put up, otherwise I can't see a problem with it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.246.117 (talk) 17:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Watchmen Characters
Well with a relatively closed universe like Watchmen its only natural for a character's biography to be a description of their role in the story. I don't see why their biography should be taken out of their own character page since every other comic book character has it present along with their story summaries. But I will give you that all of the character pages save for Manhattan need more "meat" to them. Hai Tien (talk) 23:53, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Alternative Music Newsletter for December 2008
SoxBot II (talk) 17:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, WesleyD.
Happy New Year! Hope it's off to a good start. -- Tenebrae (talk) 01:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Centralia, PA
I'd like for you to explain your edits here. You're stating that people who battled with the government (Governor Thornburg and a myriad of others in the US Dept of Mines, etc) and created civil organizations during the mine fire "are not needed for context"?? These "battles" are heavily referenced and well documented in EVERY piece of literature about Centralia. This info would NOT have been included if it were NOT referenced or important in mentioning about Centralia and it's history. Please explain what violation of WP:NPOV is happening?! Mrmcdonnell (talk) 12:38, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

O
Never took really much notice of Smog before but this is just brilliant. How is all with you. How was new year in LA (man). Ceoil (talk) 12:04, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good to hear. This about summed up my chrismass, except there was no polish maid, and I didn't wandered around macroom with a bottle on my own, but with two or three other sad bastards, and I didn't get to crack an assaions neck on the car window quite like that; though I did throw a stone at a bouncer how seemed to deserve it at the time. And the Tindersick were always in the background. Ceoil (talk) 12:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Radiohead FAR
nominated Radiohead for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. 70.21.58.96 (talk) 02:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

New Wave definition in the U.S.
I do not know why you refuse to discuss this. Just because you can delete this does not mean you should. If you owned a company would you delete files you did not like in an employees computer just because you can? By they way even though many editors do it shoving WP:OR in other editors faces or any WP is condescending. Why should I respect a WP:OR when you  refuse to honor the dispute resolution rules that say go to the talk page first. Frankly I am astonished that I even have to make these points to a veteran editor like yourself. Why are you so afraid to take this to the talk page? I worked with you a little bit before back then you had strong viewpoints but treated the other editors respectfully. There are many advantages for you to taking this to the talk page. First of all as it stands now at one for one against so you would win and the section would have to be deleted. You get more then 2 sentences to explain your position. And if your view is a minority one and the section stays that’s life. My view has been overruled in talk page discussions more then it has been agreed with so I should be the one who is afraid.

As a token of good faith I have put an Original Research section warning even though I really do not agree that it is. Why don’t you be constructive instead of destructive? You probably have more knowledge of this material then all the rest of us combined. If you do not like this section suggest a better way off handling the these type of groups Edkollin (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Be Here Now
I agree with you about moving the album to the main spot. The album is much more notable than the other Be Here Nows at the disambiguation; some don't even have articles! Either way, it's plain silly to have the Be Here Now redirect to Be Here Now (disambiguation) in the first place. Fancy a requested move? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Associated acts on the Pearl Jam article
Hello Wesley. User:KitHutch has an issue with Neil Young not being listed as an associated act on the Pearl Jam article. I know that you removed him with this edit. Can you please offer your view on the discussion page? Thanks.-5- (talk) 21:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

List_of_characters_in_Watchmen
These pages are set up to provide as much information as possible for those seeking such information in a brief but thorough encycolpedia format. For example see List_of_students_at_South_Park_Elementary most of these are secondary characters like the Minutemen.

The page is about characters in the Watchmen not the narative of the Watchmen and as such these details are pertinent. Most of this information comes from exerts of Hollis Mason's book Under the Hood which was wriiten by Alan Moore, which qualifies as a reliable source, Writing_about_fiction. I will try to cite this imformation as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CloneAlias (talk • contribs) 20:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Admin agreed with you so I'll let the page stand as it is. I still feel there is a lack of information on the page and not just for the Minutemen but for other sopporting characters as well, especially Moloch. I hope you will continue to improve this page.

Also how do you feel about the other main characters recieving there own articles like Rorschach?

Goth
I'm glad you can fill out everything until '85. The NME reprints seem like a good source. Post-'85 is what I just deleted, since it was all OR and pretty controversial OR at that. Park's article ends in about '85 as well, though she gives some indication of the direction of the scene after that; I might try to contribute to that. I also have some articles that approach the dicey subject of goth-industrial cross-pollination. Basically, I'm glad that you've decided to take this project on. Glad to see someone adding value to Wikipedia; it would be great to have all the original research scrubbed out of the page and replaced with verifiability. I'll let you know if I find any of your edits terribly controversial. Aryder779 (talk) 03:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I took a shot at summarizing Sister of Mercy-era Goth, which is c.'85. If you want to rearrange or rewrite any of the stuff I've added, feel free. Aryder779 (talk) 02:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Re: Goth and the Middle Ages: I realize you have a source that indicates that gothic rock suggests "the imagery and atmosphere of the Middle Ages," but can we talk about this? Does anyone other than Charlton mention the Middle Ages specifically as an influence on goth music? I realize we shouldn't resort too much to primary sources but take, for example, "Bela Lugosi's Dead". Does this song have anything to do with the Middle Ages? It clearly evokes Lugosi's performance in Dracula (1931), which is based on a Victorian Gothic novel published in 1897. Nothing really from the Middle Ages there. Or, say, Siouxsie's Juju album: anything Middle Ages about that? Songs about "Arabian Knights," "Halloween," spells, voodoo ... nothing medieval. So to my mind, this is a vague and misleading designator; Gothic rock has much more to do with the Victorian period or Romanticism or Symbolism or the Decadents ... practically nothing to do with, I don't know, Guillaume de Lorris or Chrétien de Troyes or any other aesthetic representative of the Middle Ages.
 * Other than that, great work on the rest the page. Aryder779 (talk) 00:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation
I went ahead and joined the Wikiproject Alternative Music. I'm not sure why it took so long. I'm not currently taking on any large article projects at this time. There were certain times last year when I was getting burned out contributing to Wikipedia, so now I'm more comfortable just working on maintaining articles and fighting vandalism. Thanks for your help.-5- (talk) 22:10, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I was fortunate for the Pearl Jam and Soundgarden articles to have fansites that had large article archives. Those made for great starting points. But, if I ever get stuck looking for additional sources I'll know who to ask.-5- (talk) 22:18, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I just read the article and it's an interesting time capsule. I think a person reading the article will be quick to notice that they didn't actually talk to Kurt or Eddie, they had to get their quotes from other sources. I remember reading somewhere that one of the few conversations that Kurt and Eddie had was that they agreed they wouldn't talk to Time for this article. That date at the top of the page must be when they put the article on their website. Thanks for notifying me.-5- (talk) 18:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Grandma, take me home!
"Theres a river born to be a giver Keep you warm wont let you shiver His heart is never gonna wither Come on everybody time to deliver"

The "river" is, well, River. The reference is actually quite subtle and definitely one of Kiedis' best. NSR 77 T 22:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Joaquin Phoenix is just an overall disappointment. River was such an amazing actor and person and his brother just falls short of both talents. Also, have you ever heard "Tearjerker" from One Hot Minute? I swear, if I didn't know Kiedis to be a womanizer I would have mistaken him for gay. He talks about Kurt as though he had a secret crush on him. NSR 77  T 22:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's just how they all are and always were. I think it has something to do with the ideals of funk music, though I don't know anything about funk at all so I can't tell you for sure. But then again most rock stars are very open to feminism and cross dressing and many are even homosexual (Michael Stipe, Morrissey and whatnot). Kurt wore dresses, Robert is, well, Robert, etc. etc. Frusciante used to wear bright pink pants and full makeup in the months before joining the Chili Peppers. I think its just an acceptance of life that these rock stars embrace. NSR 77  T 22:47, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorite Smashing Pumpkins song always has and always will be "Not Worth Asking" from the special edition 7" that came with select Pisces Iscariot LPs. There's just something about a young Smashing Pumpkins that always evoked happiness out of me. Have you heard it? NSR 77  T 00:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As fucked up as it may sound, Incesticide is definitely Nirvana's most consistent album. I always thought it was because there's no added pressure or weight to the album due to critics who paint Nevermind and In Utero as flawless works. With Incesticide you really don't have any high expectations and the "payoff" is almost always more rewarding. NSR 77  T 23:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't like Pisces Iscariot other than "Starla". Then again, I never really liked any Smashing Pumpkins b-sides. They have so many songs that when you listen to their b-sides they feel like b-sides. With Nirvana, you have to appreciate what was recorded in the brief time they were together. Plus I always prefer early/harder grunge to stuff like Superunknown. And Music for the Masses is not a synthpop record (Allmusic doesn't even list the genre). One or two songs are strongly such, yes, but the latter half is almost entirely New Wave/experimental/guitar driven. NSR 77  T 19:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A friend of mine just gave me about 5 magazines from the 10th anniversary of Cobain's death in 2004. The Q (or was it the Spin?) article goes through every track the band ever recorded. A lot of them go ridiculously in-depth. I think one of them is entirely Nirvana-based. Let me know if you need any extra sources on anything and I'll search around. NSR 77  T 05:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I uploaded "Heart-Shaped Box", "Milk It" and "In Bloom" and added them to their respective articles. Feel free to change the descriptions, I just kind of added small little explanations. NSR 77  T 20:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the problems with In Utero boil down to the passive voice that is found throughout the article. For some reason on this article you're using it a lot. Things like "that album" and "Cobain referenced books he had read in his lyrics for the album" are passive and caused a lot of problem at the "Just Like Heaven" FAC if you can remember. Just giving you the heads up. I gave the music section a copyedit but haven't done the rest of the article yet. NSR 77 T 21:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * . Speak of the devil. NSR 77  T 21:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Must have been my elementary skills on Audacity. I'll fix them up in a couple days or immediately if someone points it out at FAC. NSR 77  T 16:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's one of my favorite Nirvana song. I'm confused again; I thought you liked that song. NSR 77  T 03:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It was released. I've seen and heard of a couple that float around the internet and claim high prices from collectors of over $250. Redirecting it would be a mistake if you ask me. Proof. NSR 77  T 03:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised you used Azerrad's Come As You Are as much as you did. Azerrad always comes of, at least to me, as a very non-neutral and biased type. Somewhat of a Nirvana fan-boy. He does it in Our Band Could Be Your Life at times, too. NSR 77  T 18:30, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you think of this? I may leave Wikipedia if this is implemented. It scares me to be quite frank. NSR 77  T 04:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I won't leave, obviously. I just highly highly dislike the concept. NSR 77  T 21:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's especially coincidental considering when I nommed Mother's Milk that was the only one up there. I'm thinking of going for a Featured Topic of Blood Sugar Sex Magik but I will definitely run into hurdles when I get to "Suck My Kiss" and "If You Have to Ask". On the other hand "Give It Away" is nearly done with only a section left to add. So much easier than "Under the Bridge", let me tell you. :) NSR 77  T 23:48, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As much as I like me some Sonic Youth and noise music, they just never seem that engaging to me. I love Kim Gordon (who was, in my opinion, the reason Flea stopped slapping bass because she once said she hates the way white guys turn funk into a 'jock' thing) but the rest of the band I couldn't care for. Their albums are amazing and their music fantastic but it felt like a chore to read their section of Our Band Could Be Your Life. NSR 77  T 23:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * God, I completely forgot about Beat Happening (haven't read Band/Your Life in ages). They're not all that special. I never found them to be that great. In terms of noise music I like Jesus Lizard a notable amount more than Sonic Youth. Can't figure out why. Goat and Liar are incredible. They're both 35 straight minutes of pure, unadulterated, "fuck you" noise. Same goes for Psychocandy but that's the only Jesus and March Chain album that was actually really really good. I've been listening to them a fair amount lately. Darklands was a whole different can of worms and it only goes downhill from there; I refuse to listen to anything in their catalog after that. NSR 77  T 02:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorite band right now is Tad. They should have been as big, if not bigger, than Alice and Chains and Soundgarden. Their music is absolutely amazing and so grungy. But, alas, because their frontman was a rather portly fellow, they are forever condemned to remain in the obscurity stricken halls of "Sub Pop" along with the likes of Pussy Galore and The Fluid. NSR 77  T 00:50, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For the Disturbed album FAC. Literally took me two minutes. There's about 4-5 articles, some cover stories on the band from that album. It needs to be withdrawn from FAC immediately; I'm just too lazy to post this there. NSR 77  T 05:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wonderful news, though I doubt laziness had anything to do with it, rather it be used against the nomination than support it, I imagine. I will be collecting the information regarding these issues and contacting the magazines in question to attain the information, given they are reputable enough. Revrant (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Love this. Also, per the FAC, could you take a "comb" through Mother's Milk? Whether this is a form of appeasement or actually necessary has yet to be determined; there are several support votes already. NSR 77 T 04:00, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I took a look at the changes and none appear to be made incorrectly. You can take a stab whenever you're free. Thanks. NSR 77  T 04:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually that was originally a fragment. I'll have to check it again but you would have more of an ability to tel what is and is not a full sentence. NSR 77  T 11:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just come to accept that almost all 70s and 60s rock articles are shit. I feel as though one person wrote them all. They've all got this strange bias to them. It's sad, really. NSR 77  T 03:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

G'day
Spent a month in Austria. Had a great time. Found a wonderful second hand music shop in Vienna. Won't be doing so again for a while. Giggy (talk) 01:40, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Guilty pleasures
Thanks Dodds, I do my best. I'm sure you'll laugh at this, but let me say its just a great song, and well it has ms Emmylou Harris in. Phew! (faint). She does work quite well from my vantage point. Ceoil (talk) 02:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Hed PE
Allmusic is not a reliable source for input on genre terms. The majority of quality sources state Hed PE's genres as alternative rock, punk rock and rap rock. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 03:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC))

Genre
Are you still planning on trying to pass User:WesleyDodds/tempwork2? The Bookkeeper  (of the Occult)  02:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I still think its worth bringing up to the community as a whole. I read a lot of the discussion on the Music Project talk page and I found it apparent that a number of long-term editors seem to be "genre warriors" themselves. perhaps a full RfC discussion would help bring in outside opinions? I took a brief look at In Utero and I think its wonderful. I'll look at it a bit more indepth tomorrow. Also, I completely revamped List of honorific titles in popular music. Its a list article now. The Bookkeeper   (of the Occult)  06:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Locked inside your heart-shaped box
"Exemplifies the grittier and rougher production of In Utero in contrast to the band's previous album Nevermind." - may not fly considering you don't have a Nevermind sound sample there too. Same goes for ""Milk It" displays the aggressive and more experimental sound Nirvana was exploring in its newer material for In Utero." in the article itself. Best to avoid comparative statements and just say it's an aggressive/experimental sound.

"Illustrates the effect of the mixing process on this particular song." - what mixing processes in particular?

Otherwise looks good. Giggy (talk) 04:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey
You wouldn't happen to have an example of a good reception section of a Featured Article, would you? I'm not the best (actually, I'd say I'm the worst) at writing reception sections, so I would like a few good examples to go by, and have no idea where to look. Do you think you could provide? Thanks in advance. -- The Guy complain edits 04:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) -- The Guy complain edits 04:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

In Rainbows (again)
As a helpful hint for the future, if you want to display a date format where the day-of-month appears before the month (as with UK topics), you can still use the startdate template; just add the extra "df=yes" parameter. e.g. produces. Hope this helps!  Warren -talk- 04:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Read the template documentation for startdate; it explains why we'd use this template. In short, it's used for supporting various microformats, so that the date can be interpreted and used by web browsers.  IE8, for example, can recognize a date formatted as such and enable its WebSlices feature to allow doing other operations on that date.  If the immediate usefulness of this isn't obvious, don't worry about it... others have given it thought and decided it's a good idea for the encyclopedia to encode dates this way.  Warren -talk- 18:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Rorschach
The rest of the character articles looked exactly like the Rorschach article before they were deleted, shouldn't Rorschach be deleted as well if we are going to go by the "no summaries" rule? Hai Tien (talk) 21:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

If, but
If it wasn't for the dreadful lyrics and sappy chorus, this would be a great song. Ceoil (talk) 02:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Eno
That would be great! I'm not sure what I'll need at very first. The 33 and 1/3 section is writing a book for "Another Green World". I might wait for that to come out. I'll get back to you though. As a personal interest, any of those would be great to give a read through. Cheers! Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:17, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Loser
Hey, had to drop off of Wikipedia for a week for finals. I think I can more or less get "Loser" up to GA-quality by today. Also, great work with In Utero! --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 00:47, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Re:Disturbed
I wouldn't think that an early 2000s Guitar World issue that was written around the time of Disturbed's first album would help with Indestructible. On the other hand, it could possibly help with The Sickness, which is good because the article is short and needs refs anyway. The Sickness only has a small lead section, a track listing, personnel, charts, and an infobox (not very much). So maybe those Guitar World issues could be used to help expand and source The Sickness. That definitely sounds like something worth working on. About Indestructible, if print sources and their authors could be found for that, it would definitely help that article. There is one question about the FA nomination for Indestructible that I would like to get an answer from you for: Is comprehensiveness and the lack of print sources the only issue that is making you oppose the FAC? If not, what other issues are there? I might be able to help with some. Anyways, thanks for your help. As I mentioned above, those early 2000s Guitar World issues that you have could help with The Sickness. Meanwhile, I might try to find other sources for The Sickness, which may likely be mostly or entirely web sources. Rock on!-- Al max  999  05:51, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I guess that means that I won't get to see Indestructible be featured until more resources are used. That's okay, as I can help with other articles. Like I mentioned earlier, those issues of Guitar World that you have may help with The Sickness. I might try to help the article myself by adding web sources. Rock on WesleyDodds, and thanks for your help!-- Al max  999  06:54, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I just told WikiProject Metal that print sources are needed for the article. However, I'm not very sure if they plan on helping me, as I am not a part of any WikiProject, though I plan to join some. I'll only know the answer to that question with time, and I can only hope that someone is willing to help.-- Al max  999  07:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry it's been a couple of days since I've responded, but yes I do like Helmet. A couple of years ago, I got their album Size Matters, and saw them at the 2006 Warped Tour. And also, I hope you don't mind, I just joined a couple of projects:WikiProject Metal and WikiProject Alternative Music. I've noticed that you are in WikiProject Alternative Music, and would be glad to help.-- Al max  999  03:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I had a sub-page of my favorite bands, but haven't yet completed it, as there are a lot more than what was listed. I am into some Nirvana, and I really like Stone Temple Pilots, Puddle of Mudd, and Fuel. Some other alternative bands that I listen to include The Black Maria, early Linkin Park (on Minutes to Midnight, I only like Bleed It Out and Given Up), mostly earlier Nickelback, The Offspring, Papa Roach, R.E.M., Red Hot Chili Peppers, Soundgarden, Staind, Stone Sour, and U2. These alone are alternative bands, but I like plenty of other bands, some of which fall into the metal and heavy metal genres. My favorite band, if you haven't already heard, is Disturbed.-- Al max  999  04:03, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

R's Journal in the Watchmen
Hey Wesley. Maybe you are right. I've raised an RFC and will let the outcome of that determine whether or not I continue to defend inclusion of the journal. (ugh, I hadn't realized doing so would start yet another Journal thread) --Bertrc (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2009 (UTC)