User talk:Where is Matt?

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Introduction to contentious topics
You have recently made edits related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. This is a standard message to inform you that articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Contentious topics. You have recently made edits related to governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues. This is a standard message to inform you that governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Contentious topics. –– Formal Dude  (talk)  17:33, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

BLP
Any good faith edit made on BLP grounds, and WP:NPF is part of BLP, requires an affirmative talk page consensus to restore per WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE. Please do not edit-war material regarding BLP issues, you must seek an affirmative consensus for the edit before restoring it when it is reverted. Thanks.  nableezy  - 13:33, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

October 2023
Hello, I'm JPxG. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Matt Taibbi, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. jp×g 18:30, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Your revert is absolutely mind boggling because it's in the same citation. You really ought to do your due diligence before reverting. Where is Matt? (talk) 18:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of List of types of businesses using the "as a service" business model for deletion
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FYI
If you find that an editor may have violated the edit warring policy (that being four (4) reverts to the same page in a 24-hour period), then before reporting them, you should warn them on their talk page so they are aware of the policy and their possible violation, and you should make an effort on the article talk page to discuss the issue with them and try and resolve it. Only after you've taken these two steps, with no resolution, and they've made a 4th revert, should you then report them. But instead of ANI, there is a specific board for edit war reports at WP:AN/EW. There you'll see at the top of the page information you need to know and steps you need to follow, as well as a report template for you to fill out. Hope you find this useful. - w o lf  04:20, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

"revert ninjas"
That essay was written fifteen years ago, which was basically the wild west, and it's an essay. Just stop calling people who disagree with your additions "revert ninjas". It really doesn't matter that you aren't singling out specific editors by name to call them that.

As an aside, coming in hot is rarely helpful in persuading others. Even if your proposal could have gained traction, you pretty much discouraged everyone reading at that discussion from open-minded consideration of it just from the section title and language. Valereee (talk) 15:46, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything in the essay that would make it dated, but if it was dated, it should have included the template, but it doesn't. Where is Matt? (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And to add to that, WP:NINJA does not call anyone "revert ninjas," as has been pointed out to you. Of people who revert and do not discuss, it says: They don't cultivate the anonymity of the ninja. So not ninjas then. Note that the humorous description of ninja's is all about the supposed cloak of anonymity and cover of darkness. The term you are using is entirely your own, and is ad hominem, which does seem a touch... ironic. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So if I used the term "edit ninja" instead of "revert ninja" everything would have been cool? Where is Matt? (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No. We do not need "terms" for people, especially when used to refer to those you're complaining about in an inherently contentious discussion. Please let me know that you're understanding this, because this comment is starting to feel a bit WP:IDHT. Valereee (talk) 10:16, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We need terms for behaviors. Do you have a better term than WP:NINJA for editors who don't follow Don't revert due solely to "no consensus"? That's the problem that I am trying to address. The way WP:ONUS is currently written, it gives those editors the weapon to do just that. Where is Matt? (talk) 14:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Speaking of "coming in hot", the essay WP:HOTHEADS is full of a lot good advice (for everyone, really, not only those who come in hot). As for the idea that one is not engaging incivility by calling people names as an anonymous group instead of singling out specific editors by name, that's WP:SANCTIONGAMING, and doesn't work. You got warned by an administrator to stop doing it. You should listen. See also WP:ASPERSIONS from ArbCom: It is unacceptable for an editor to routinely accuse others of misbehavior without reasonable cause. Note the plural in that.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:51, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * First, I specifically laid out what revert ninjas do (using the subjective arguments of WP:UNDUE and WP:TRIVIA and then requiring the editor who wants to add the content to get a consensus that the content is not in violation of these subjective arguments), so I didn't really call any of the people who have reverted me "revert ninjas", since none of them used these excuses. But you would know better than me, since you spent the time scrutinizing all my edits that were reverted.
 * Second, had the label of "revert ninjas" that I used would have been applicable to some of the editors who reverted me, but I did not explicitly name any editor as a "revert ninja", how would that have violated WP:SANCTIONGAMING? I don't see anything in WP:SANCTIONGAMING that would have remotely applied.
 * Where is Matt? (talk) 02:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See my immediate previous comment, this too feels like you are either unable or unwilling to understand what people are telling you. Valereee (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

This discussion would be off-topic at WP:V. This discussion is not about policy. It's about your behavior. And the fact you still don't seem to understand that is concerning.

Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus" is an essay, not policy, so it's not something anyone is required to follow. What is policy is ONUS, and following policy is not problematic behavior. You really don't even need to refer to editors who are following policy you disagree with to argue that policy needs to be changed: "I think requiring demonstrating consensus to continue to include content is too much of a burden. I think unilaterally removing longstanding verifiable sourced content should also require consensus."

And how about we stop talking about weaponizing, while we're at it. WP is not a battleground, it's a collaborative project, and characterizing those who disagree with you as using "weapons" against you is not really conducive to a collaborative environment.

I understand that you're new here, and that there's a steep learning curve. But the situation here is that someone is disagreeing with you about a content issue, and they're providing current policy that supports their point of view. It's fine for you to disagree with the policy, but just leave the editors following that policy out of it. It's not them you have the problem with. It's the policy, and that really has nothing to do with them. Valereee (talk) 15:25, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

"Characterizing editors who don't follow WP:DRNC as "revert ninjas who weaponize WP:ONUS" is a fair and legitimate characterization, and I fully stand by it."
Can you elaborate on the above position? What makes the use of a derogatory characterization fair and legitimate in this context? Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 18:18, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just because a characterization is derogatory does not mean that it's in violation of WP:CIVILITY, and that's especially true when it's not directed at an particular editor. Where is Matt? (talk) 18:21, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Its a long way from not a violation of WP:CIVILITY to fair and legitimate, a very long way. How do you get there? Note that the vast majority of editors don't follow WP:DRNC, most don't even know that obscure essay exists. You also haven't explained the difference between following ONUS and weaponizing ONUS. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 18:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * behavior that (I consider to be) repugnant can be characterized using derogatory terms
 * Ignorance about the essay is not an excuse for what (I consider to be) bad behavior
 * Using WP:ONUS to get the upper hand = "weaponization".
 * Where is Matt? (talk) 18:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Behavior can be, but you are charactering editor not edits. "revert ninjas" not "ninja edits"
 * Essays don't need to be followed, known about, or understood. They don't carry any weight at all.
 * If thats the definition of weaponization then isn't following ONUS weaponizing it as it inherently gives one side the upper hand?
 * Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 18:38, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that if I used the term "Ninja type edits", as opposed to "revert ninjas" everything would be cool?
 * Apparently you're not following my logic. I'm saying that if we re-wrote WP:ONUS, the essay would be followed (even by editors who are not aware of this essay).
 * Yes. Does that mean we are in agreement that the word "weaponization" is a fair word to use?
 * Where is Matt? (talk) 18:42, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you did that I don't think anyone would be bringing up NPA.
 * So you want to functionally replace WP:ONUS with this essay?
 * I don't think I've ever heard "weaponization" as a fair characterization of "follow in good faith"
 * Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 18:48, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I wrote specifically in the talk page my proposal for changing WP:ONUS. It is to rewrite the sentence as The responsibility for achieving consensus for removal of content that passes WP:V, and is not in violation of WP:BLP, is on those seeking to remove the disputed content.
 * But it doesn't matter any more. I have been WP:CENSORED from that talk page in an act that I feel constitutes an abuse of administrative privileges. Where is Matt? (talk) 18:58, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You then muddied the waters significantly which is why so many people have asked you for clarification. I will leave you to sort out your admin issues in peace. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 19:04, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

December 2023
 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing certain pages (Wikipedia talk:Verifiability) for IDHT. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. Valereee (talk) 18:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Blocked as a sockpuppet
 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for abusing multiple accounts&#32;as a sockpuppet of &#32;per the evidence presented at Sockpuppet investigations/Banana Republic. Note that multiple accounts are allowed, but not for illegitimate reasons, and any contributions made while evading blocks or bans may be reverted or deleted. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. Spicy (talk) 15:06, 4 January 2024 (UTC)