User talk:White Arabian Filly/Archive October 2016

RfC for page patroller qualifications
Following up from the consensus reached here, the community will now establish the user right criteria. You may wish to participate in this discussion. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:50, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Reverting without any rationale
You reverted me twice here without providing any rationale. Can I ask again, what your reason for reverting is? 79.67.85.222 (talk) 22:06, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * , the first time it was for adding unsourced content. The context of the addition made it sound like vandalism, so I reverted. People love to go into these widely viewed articles and write weird, untrue stuff, so reverting unsourced content of that type is automatic. The second time, I didn't have time to look at the source. The title of it appeared to be saying that incestuous relationships are in fact illegal. If it is true, we can add it back. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:57, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. I did quite a lot of research. I would appreciate it if you self-revert please. 92.6.191.218 (talk) 08:15, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have now done so. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 21:02, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Advice before starting down the GA nomination path
Hello, there. I have never nominated an article for a GA, and I notice that you have a great track record with them, so I was wondering if you would be so kind as to point me in the right direction. I found all the formal guidelines, but I find the criteria are so vaguely worded that I am not clear how to interpret them. Before wasting everybody's time with a formal nomination, is there some process where I can request a quick "sanity check" that could indicate whether it is worth pursuing?

The article in question is not mine; it is Alan Hale (astronomer). It is currently rated "B" so I understand the next step would be to progress to a GA which needs a formal review. I realize this article is outside your subject area, so somebody else will probably do the actual review, but I would be grateful for any pointers you could offer.--Gronk Oz (talk) 0 3:31, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, I gave the article a quick read and I think it could easily go to Good quality. If you want to get more opinions, though, you can try peer review before nominating (although if it's not a popular topic, you might not get a lot of feedback). Generally the reviewer will ask you to improve a few precise points, (you can look at Talk:Black Allan (horse)/GA1 to see what reviewers want) once the review starts, but you'll have a week to do that. It can be a while after you nominate it before it gets reviewed though. If the reviewer wants several things improved, as I said above, they will generally put the review on hold for a week in order to give you time to fulfill their request. Once you've made the changes they asked for, they'll probably promote the article.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:35, 18 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks - that looks like just what I was after.  I will suggest to the author that he follows the process at Peer review, and see how we go...--Gronk Oz (talk) 01:53, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks
Re: Nomination of Harness Tracks of America Driver of the Year for deletion. They did this before I could even finish/make adjustments to the article as the Dan Patch Awards have to be organized. Plus, I don't think they understand that there can only be one source for an organization giving a specific award that they legally control. We could have (and eventually will, I assume) links with references to a particular driver winning the award in a particular year from various publications, but not the Award itself. I checked the parallel Eclipse Award for Outstanding Trainer article that has been there for a long time and they list only one source and refer to some sort of Champions list but that is listed elsewhere as only something informal so not a reference. Mateusz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mateusz K (talk • contribs) 00:37, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

P.S. - Am I allowed to vote for my own article not to be deleted? Mateusz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mateusz K (talk • contribs) 01:03, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes, it's a good idea to vote for the article not to be deleted, and it's completely allowed. I agree with you that the article should exist and the person who nominated it doesn't seem to understand the criteria. They are really new here and newbies are discouraged from participating in AfD. I may go over and try to explain that to them and try to keep them from doing any more until they have a better understanding of the rules for inclusion. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:43, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Harness racing
Your work and help is much appreciated. Would you know who or how we could get a new racehorse Infobox, article stubs, and the like created specifically for harness horses? Also, is their a Talk place or forum specific to harness racing at Wikipedia where we might coordinate things or just ask questions? Mateusz K (talk) 13:23, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have created an infobox before, so I'll get up a rough draft and then you can suggest features it should have. WP:WikiProject Horse racing is more geared toward Thoroughbreds, but it does cover Standardbreds as well, and you can post on its talk page. By the way, there's an idea being tossed around for a task force/offshoot of the horse racing project that would focus specifically on harness racers. It hasn't been created as yet, but it will be if enough people show an interest. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:46, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Good work on the horse infobox. Can we choose own color different from the Thoroughbred brown? Should we show country of birth? What would you think about putting in "Groom" between driver and the trainer. I'm big on giving credit to the "little guy" who actually is often key - not easy to find but at least the Hambletonian website includes them for every year. Mateusz K (talk) 22:26, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * What would you think of moving "Gait" to immediately below "Standardbred" at the top? Mateusz K (talk) 14:23, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I added parameters for country of birth and groom, and moved gait to the top. On colors, you can link to whichever page you want; we have individual articles for pretty much every horse color. Seal brown (horse) isn't particularly long but could be expanded (do Standardbreds have a different color of brown from Thoroughbreds?). White Arabian Filly  Neigh 18:30, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I wasn't clear. By color I meant the box titles we currently use (see: Abercrombie (horse)) which are all light brown for Thoroughbreds. Also, we should have an "Awards" section for inserting "Horse of the Year" etc. Also think it might be a good idea to have the Race, Awards, and Honors each in a separate box like the Thoroughbred ones you will see used in the aforementioned Abercrombie article. Thanks. Mateusz K (talk) 11:27, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know why I thought you meant the actual horse's color, but it's possible to make the infobox top pretty much any color (although the Manual of Style people want them to be pale or neutral, not bright). I'm in the process of making those three parameters into separate boxes; I added one for awards. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 21:09, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I hate to be late to this party and rain on it, but we are actually moving AWAY from different infoboxes for different breeds and specialties (this is also happening for the people ones) and the general infobox movement is to get rid of the colors altogether.  The proper template for all of them is Infobox racehorse and it has all of these parameters -- we use it for TBs, racing quarter horses, etc... please don't go making a new one! If we need additional parameters there, we can add them.    Montanabw (talk) 23:36, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

I think the driver parameter should be added to the main one as an alt for jockey, because harness racing doesn't involve jockeys. I also think gait (pace or trot) should be there, and mile record, because those things are a really big deal in the harness world, from what I understand. I'm not sure all the infobox merging is a good thing though, because I absolutely hate the ones with 500 parameters, of which you only need 15. White Arabian Filly Neigh 20:54, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have left a note at User:Montanabw's Talk page on this subject. There is no rule against creating a proper box for Standardbreds. If Wikipedia powers-that-be decide to change things then they will post that new rule and, like everyone else, we will deal with it at that time. Mateusz K (talk) 18:18, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I hope I'm wrong, but it appears User:RexxS doesn't want to help with finishing your Infobox. I have four or five races to do then I was going to do some horse bios to connect to the races. However, all the hassles make me think maybe I should give up on contributing. First though, I see where there are a number of new templates being created every day including those "breaking down" into a distinct category like the proposed Standardbred. It would seem there are other Editors who can do it. If you don't know any others, let me know and I'll look for someone. Thanks. Mateusz K (talk) 16:30, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I know one editor who can probably help, and if they can't then I can post at the Village Pump technical page, where there are a lot of template/Infobox oriented editors. I'd encourage you not to give up on Wikipedia because of this one annoyance. I've been here over a year and I've had disagreements with other editors as well, plus some dealings with vandals and people who were sockpuppeting. I had one IP vandalize my own userpage and a sockpuppet who kept making disruptive edits to an article I was trying to get promoted to Good status at the time. We have a lot of people who are signed up for the horse and horse racing projects, but very few who actually still contribute. White Arabian Filly Neigh 23:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'm sorry you had to go through such bad experiences but your willingness to stick it out makes me think I should not give up quite so easily. I have now finished the rest of the Breeders Crown races and the Hambletonian Oaks and will post them shortly. For the new Standardbred template, I'm glad you know what to do. Do you prefer if I leave notes, suggestions and such about the project here or on the Talk page of your working page? -- Re the discussions. Someone said I didn't "ping" them. What's a ping? 19:37, 22 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mateusz K (talk • contribs)

, it is what I have done to your name just now. You use the template with a | after the u, then type the username of the person you want to ping. Once pinged, the notice goes straight to the user's messages. Horsegeek (talk) 20:04, 22 November 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * I didn't get a consensus to release the Standardbred-specific infobox because so many people complained, but I did get them to add the needed parameters to the regular racehorse Infobox. You can now add the gait, mile record, groom and driver. It isn't the best solution but it will display the details specific to Standardbreds and other harness racehorses. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:58, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Where do I find the discussion not to release the Standardbred-specific infobox? Mateusz K (talk) 21:43, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Montanabw's Talk page. At least we now have harness racing on the main racehorse box, and I found out how to edit the "module" so we can add more Standardbred horse parameters if needed, although I think all the necessary ones are now there. (They can be added into the existing infobox on each horse bio, so the gait, driver if it was a different person from the trainer, and record at the mile can all be put in the infobox now.) White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:36, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Where can I find the template for the racehorse info showing the specific Harness racing additions? I searched Template:Infobox racehorse and even though it says for Tbreds and Sbreds, I can only see the original one. Mateusz K (talk) 21:06, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think anybody with the template editors permission has got around to adding it there yet, but RexxS told me that it would work a couple days ago. If you're writing a new horse bio, try adding |gait=,|driver=, |groom and |mile record= and filling them in. If they appear, it means they've been added. White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I tested it by adding |driver= but it didn't work. Mateusz K (talk) 21:33, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I hadn't worked with one of these modules before. So I did some looking and found out you have to add all four in the correct order for it to work. See [this https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dan_Patch&diff=prev&oldid=751611542] edit I made to Dan Patch; you can put it in the edit window to see the entire module (maybe I should have tested it on an article where the trainer and groom are listed. Also the module itself is located at Template:Infoboxmodule Standardbred and anybody can edit it and add additional parameters if more are needed. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:23, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I used the revised box for a stub article on Scott Frost (horse). Is there a way to make "driver" and "groom" appear after "trainer"? Mateusz K (talk) 18:32, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, but I'll try it and see. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 22:50, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've tried more new boxes in Bret Hanover and Abercrombie (horse). Am a bit frustrated with the very poor new Standardbred additions in a box that was designed for Thoroughbreds. In addition to needing the "driver" and "groom" appear after "trainer" we also need "Gait" to appear immediately below "Breed". Even the "mile record" is out of context and would likely fit better after "wins". Also, the existing "record" should be changed to "race record to avoid confusion. (Bret Hanover had his "mile record" in the "record" section) Thanks, again. Mateusz K (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I really can't do anything about the placement of the Standardbred additions to the infobox. They have to be all together for it to work, and I can't edit the main racehorse box because the template editor permission is required for that (evidently it got vandalized all the time or people were adding stuff that was only needed on one article). I have been aggravated by the record parameter for a long time because it seems like nobody knows what it's for and everyone has their own idea. On some articles it's used for the speed record, on some the number of starts/wins/places/shows, and on others the money the horse earned. (I will  post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing and see if I can get an idea of what people think it should be, and then maybe we can standardize the articles.) By the way, I noticed we don't have an article about the horse Little Brown Jug. That title currently goes to a disambiguation page. If you plan to make an article about the horse, let me know in advance and I'll move the current page to "Little Brown Jug  (disambiguation)" so the horse's article can be simply Little Brown Jug.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 16:19, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Update: I did some investigating and the Little Brown Jug article will probably have to be created with the (horse) disambiguation because the dab page can't be moved. Evidently it's already been moved 5 or 6 times. But the horse still is article-less. White Arabian Filly Neigh 23:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You said " I can't edit the main racehorse box because the template editor permission is required for that". Who is the template editor? Mateusz K (talk) 17:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * There are about 150 of them, according to this list. Template editor is a permission designed for people who routinely make and edit infoboxes, navboxes, and other templates. I don't do enough of it to have that permission, (an admin has to to add to your account) but I have autopatrolled, meaning any new pages I create are marked as patrolled automatically, page patrol so I can patrol the pages of others, and rollback to revert vandalism.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 23:08, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn't make myself clear. How does one find out which template editor controls the Racehorse box? Or, if it's several template editors or any one of the 150± then how does one go about making contact? Thanks. Mateusz K (talk) 01:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * No one editor controls any page. Any one of those listed could edit it, and you can post a message on their talk page, which is linked after their name. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 23:08, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you know who was the Template Editor that made the changes to the Racehorse Infobox? Mateusz K (talk) 01:16, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know; it was originally created before I had an account here. You'll have to check that page's history to see who it was. The person may not be editing any longer; to check if they're still active, type "Special:Contributions/their name" and if they've edited within the past week or two that gives you a bigger chance of getting a reply. If the editor who did most of the editing is no longer active, you can post at Village pump/Technical which is where a lot of the template editors hang out.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 22:41, 10 December 2016 (UTC)