User talk:White Shadows/Archive 13

WikiCup 2010 July newsletter
We are half-way through our penultimate round, and nothing is yet certain. Pool A, currently led by has ended up the more competitive, with three contestants (,  and ) scoring over 500 points already. Pool B is led by, who has also scored well over 500. The top two from each pool, as well as the next four highest scorers regardless of pool, will make it through to our final eight. As ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page.

Planning has begun for the 2011 WikiCup, with open discussions concerning scoring and flags for next year's competition. Contributions to those discussions would be appreciated, especially concerning the flags, as next year's signups cannot begin until the flag issue has been resolved. Signups will hopefully open at some point in this round, with discussion about possible changing in the scoring/process opening some time afterwards.

Earlier this round, we said goodbye to, who has bowed out to spend more time on the book he is authoring with his wife. We wish him all the best. In other news, the start of this round also saw some WikiCup awards sent out by. We appreciate his enthusiasm, and contestants are of course welcome to award each other prizes as they see fit, but rest assured that we will be sending out "official" awards at the end of the competition. If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox and The ed17 22:33, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

GAN
Hello. Could you possibly review Twilight (2008 film) for GA status? Chaos Master Chat 02:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'll get to it later today :)-- White Shadows It's a wonderful life 13:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. And take your time with both of the articles your reviewing. Theres no rush :) Chaos Master Chat 19:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That's good because I have a GA, an FLC and RL to deal with!-- White Shadows It's a wonderful life 19:27, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Take your time. :) Chaos Master Chat 19:39, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll try to get to it ASAP though.-- White Shadows It's a wonderful life 19:39, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, since its been a week, I wanted to make sure you haven't forgoten about the review. There's still no rush, just double checking to make sure your still "assigned" to it. :) Chaos Master Chat 18:39, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I know :) I'm going to get to it as soon as I can. I'm still on it :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 21:04, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page
I hope it does not worry you if we are on the opposite sides of an argument. That is perfectly acceptable. I simply think that in general, FL do not come close in quality to FA, and they should not be treated as equals. You'll agree when you have one or two done. Speaking of which, I've ordered a couple of modern bios of Lee (post 1965 I think of as modern for Civil War purposes, that is after the centennial. I am home today and part of tomorrow but then will be away until Sunday, but I'll bring some refs with me to read.  The Statue of Liberty FAC has been surprisingly rough, I did not expect to get hit by art history buffs, although their concerns have been valid.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:55, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem I understand :)-- White Shadows It's a wonderful life 13:43, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

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Lee
I will be home Monday and will start work if my references have shown up in my mailbox. I will probably do a couple of short articles at the same time just to keep FAC busy while we get this show on the road, since I've thought about it and we should seek A-class before taking it to FAC. It should be interesting.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I'll get to work on it once I return to Virginia on the 11th. Though I get back into DC at 9:16pm so I'll likely edit the next day.-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 21:57, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Monarch class battleship
 — Rlevse • Talk  • 00:03, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Re: Parachutes page
Sorry. I'm new to this whole Wikipedia thing. I just started and I'm a fellow Coldplay fan as well. It's my first edit. I hope I'm able to find your reply. I don't want to fight or anything sir/madam. The excerpt in question I removed; "The album's lead single, "Yellow", in the United States has helped the album's shipments reach over 1.2 million units" {1} seems somewhat redundant to me. The remark following it, "Over two million copies have been shipped to the United States, leading to being certified two-time Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America" {2} seems to cover the main point of the statement I had deleted except in a more updated and recent fashion. It makes the quote I had taken off seem obsolete and superfluous in my opinion, which is why I edited it out. Please respond. Thank you. Fix42YellowClocks (talk) 23:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)Fix42YellowClocks

I don't know if I need to do this just for discussion but to be safe:

{1}  {2}  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fix42YellowClocks (talk • contribs) 23:35, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

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Pichilemu
Hi, I have addressed the most of the issues you've pointed out at the Good Article review. I don't understand the "some sentences just don't look professional", could you give some examples please? :)  Diego Grez  what's up?  23:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll try to get to the GAN as soon as I can :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 23:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Replied your last comment.  Diego Grez  what's up?  02:07, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

In case you didn't see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACamrynRocks%21&action=historysubmit&diff=378719495&oldid=378436879 --Wehwalt (talk) 02:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

OMT Cat
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that Category:Operation Majestic Titan is intended for projectspace pages related to the OMT project and its operation, not mainspace articles that come under the project's area of interest. -- saberwyn 03:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I had thoughts about that too but I went with my "gut feeling". Guess my "gut feeling" was wrong! forgive me, I'll go back and fix that!-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 03:23, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Cup
Damn youse! That FL pushed you out of my reach. We'd been tied and I thought my pending DYK would actually move me past someone into a higher wildcard spot. :) Staxringold talkcontribs 13:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha! The Dark Horse of the Wikicup strikes again! You were a worthy opponent though and I'm glad that I had to try to beat someone like you :) It's not over yet though, you still have time!-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 15:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'll move into the finals, but I think I'm in the position I'll be in come round end (maybe not score, but rank). Staxringold talkcontribs 21:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand. Good luck!-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 22:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

contribution
Please make a contribution towards improving the WW2 lead. Communicat (talk) 16:59, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Nomination
I see you have a FAC going!--Wehwalt (talk) 17:55, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! Wish me luck!-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 18:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Luck.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've got it watchlisted. I don't intend to get involved, but feel free to ask for advice and I'll hopefully respond to the point!  I've started work on Lee.  Also, if you would not mind, can you look around and see if you can find the pic of Lee as a young man with this really high collar?--Wehwalt (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Just did a search on Google images.....nothing. Why are we looking for this kind of picture?-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 23:10, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:Question
We haven't discussed it at length- we're not actually in much communication at the moment. I was thinking of opening a discussion with everyone on the subject of the judges on the talk page at some point (hell, I may end up taking part next year...). This shouldn't be a problem- as you can use flags that have already been taken by someone else, there is no harm in waiting. J Milburn (talk) 19:42, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm surprised that no one thought of this earlier!
Re "This is a wonderful idea. I'm surprised that no one thought of this earlier!", many people already have, going back at least as far as 2005. (Personally, I think this proposal is the best, but maybe that's just me.) The usual obstructionists will invariably turn up to block it at some point; anything that dilutes admin powers upsets that subgroup who feel it makes them somehow morally superior. Even getting rollback unbundled took a monumental effort. – iride scent  01:00, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I never new that this has been brought up before. It seems like a big idea but I understand how others (mostly admins) would be opposed to it. Regardless, this one looks to be promising. Even !X supported the idea and is working on getting the bugs that prevent this out of the way.-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 01:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

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Pix
Did you get my comment? If the German government released the photos for public information they should be in the public domain regardless of who took them. You might want to either get in touch with competent experts in the field, if any, or check books to see if those images are in them, there may be photo credits. Elcobbola is right, Germany does follow life of the photographer plus 70 years and if you can't prove death by 1940 or PD, then you are left with fair use, which is a pain.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

re: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/German Type UB I submarine/archive1
All but one :) Nikkimaria (talk) 14:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, switched to support. Great job, and I hope you get your first FA out of this! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 16:12, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks on all accounts :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 16:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems to be going well. How are the images?--Wehwalt (talk) 17:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * All fixed I believe.-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 18:03, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LIII (July 2010)
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:08, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

User:White Shadows/German U-boat bases in occupied France
Hi. I hid the copyright problems from the article since I think you need to rewrite it from scratch. I started with Brest, but I'm not familiar with some of the jargon used so I only added the basics. Basically what I've started is a summary and not a paraphrase. If you think paraphrasing is difficult, I suggest you start by summarizing. Regards, Theleftorium (talk) 12:42, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * See Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches for some good tips. Theleftorium (talk) 12:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Theleftorium, I've been kinda busy recently with the beginning of school coming in just about 3 days but I'll try to get to re-working this when I can.-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 19:48, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

U-36 GAN
Hi, White Shadows, when you get a chance can you take a look at the GAN for German submarine U-36 (1936). I'm fairly happy with the article, although I made a couple of tweaks myself which I would like you to check before I pass it. Cheers. AustralianRupert (talk) 06:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll check it ASAP :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 19:45, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

GTCs
Don't forget to claim your points for your GTCs on your WikiCup submissions page. Remember only those articles which you personally to GA count. See my submissions page to see how to format everything.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:03, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I thought that the GTC was still ongoing! Thanks :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 19:45, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for SMS Wien
 — Rlevse • Talk  • 12:04, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

GA for Alexander Pechersky
Hi, could u do me a favor and review my nomination of the above article for GA? It is about WW2, so should be right up your alley. I would relly appreciate it, since for 2 months nobody is touching it. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 13:38, 23 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can do. I'm rather busy at the moment. If possible, I'll try to get to it over the weekend. Is that good for you? All the best,-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 15:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Take your time, I myself am busy as well. I will add some more ref info I can find about this sub. Because the way it stands now, more meat needs to be put into the article, and I saw that info is out there on google. If you know others interested in this article about the sub, please let them know. As for the Pechersky article, I been writing it for over 1 year, shouldn't take much time, to give me suggestions etc... Cheers! Meishern (talk) 20:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello Coldplay Expert
If your at all interested pls jump in,,,,---> Talk:History of Canada/GA1..Moxy (talk) 05:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want to, come on in...Canadian history is awesome, and it involves WWII! In other news, thanks for your support (and defence) in my RfA, which was closed as successful. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 15:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Coldplay Expert.....I haven't been called that in a long time....anyway, I'll be happy to take a look at it ASAP. OH and, Nikkimaria, congrats on the RFA! Good luck with the tools and I look forward to any future collaboration between us :)-- White Shadows Nobody said it was easy 15:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

U-35
Hope I didn't throw a spanner in the works. Or if I did it was unintentional, I edited it before I realized you had GA nominated it. (I do consider the GA nom pre-mature) - regards - ClemMcGann (talk) 16:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I am reviewing the article. My goal is to get it polished to make it GA. After spending a few hours reading other sources, there are only a few other things that can be added. This shouldn't take more than a week or 2, depending on who else gets involved. This sub wasn't 'in play' for that long to have an extensive history. As long as at the end there is a consensus regarding the content, all will be well. Please use the talk page for the article if you have opinions etc.. that you want to share to improve the content, or anything else you wanna see that is currently missing. Cheers! Meishern (talk) 20:23, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 August 2010
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Request for mediation rejected
The Request for mediation concerning World War II (overview article), to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. An explanation of why it has not been possible to allow this dispute to proceed to mediation is provided at the mediation request page (which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time). Queries on the rejection of this dispute can be directed to the Committee chairperson or e-mailed to the mediation mailing list. For the Mediation Committee, AGK  20:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC) (This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.)

Lee edit
On this edit, it is certainly not terribly helpful (I am away and did not take my Lee references with me), but it isn't vandalism, so don't use rollback on it.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:20, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I was not trying to abuse it or anything but this IP (who is also likely that one user) has been re-adding this in for several days now even though I (and others have asked them to stop) I was merely trying to save time :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:27, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I would take the time. I personally do not care very much, but there are others who are all regulationy, and I'd like to save you from their untender mercies.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:29, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know, things must be done by the book here. I'll try to remember that. On a side note, I hope to use Lee in the last round of the Wikicup. I'm in the final 8! :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * What's the deadline? I'm in Calif. for the next 10 days?--Wehwalt (talk) 20:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It ends on 31 October.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, It is very doable, especially if you can get to work on the wartime portions.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

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User:TonyTheTiger/sandbox/cup
It appears that you are one of the finalists. I have put together a summary chart for us to sort of get to know each other. Feel free to come by and fill in User:TonyTheTiger/sandbox/cup.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Adding your historical submissions and points would also be good.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:02, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! I was actually trying to figure that out. It may take a while :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 22:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I am having trouble finding your history pages from before your move. I have done most of yours for you though.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had an issue with that too. I do know that I had 110 points from round one :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 10:10, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 August newsletter
We have our final eight! The best of luck to those who remain. A bumper newsletter this week as we start our home straight.


 * Pool A's winner was . Awarded the top score overall this round, Sturmvogel_66 writes primarily on military history, favouring Naval warfare.
 * Pool B's winner was . Awarded the top score for featured articles this round, Casliber writes primarily on natural sciences, especially botany and ornithology.
 * Pool A's close second was . Awarded the top score for featured pictures this round, Sasata writes primarily on natural sciences, favouring mycology.
 * Pool B's close second was . Awarded the top score for good articles and topics this round, ThinkBlue primarily writes content related to television and film, including 30 Rock.
 * The first wildcard was . Awarded the top score for did you knows and valued pictures this round, TonyTheTiger writes on a number of topics, including baseball, American football and Chicago.
 * The second wildcard was . Someone who has helped the Cup behind the scenes all year, White Shadows said "I'm still in shock that I made it this far" and writes primarily on Naval warfare, especially U-boats.
 * The third wildcard was . Awarded the top score for featured lists and topics this round, Staxringold primarily writes on sport and television, including baseball and 30 Rock.
 * The fourth wildcard was . Entering the final eight only on the final day of the round, William S. Saturn writes on a number of topics, mostly related to Texas.

We say goodbye to the six who fell at the final hurdle. only just missed out on a place in the final eight. was not far behind. was awarded top points for in the news this round. contributed a variety of did you know articles. said "I'm surprised to have survived so far into the competition", but was extactic to see Finland in the semi-finals. did not score this round, but has scored highly in previous rounds. We also say goodbye to, who withdrew earlier this month after spending six weeks overseas. Anyone interested in this round's results can see them here and here. Thank you to for these.

Signups for next year's competition are now open. Planning is ongoing, with a key discussion about judges for next year open. Discussion about how next year's scoring will work is ongoing, and thoughts are more than welcome at Wikipedia talk:WikiCup/Scoring. Also, TonyTheTiger is compiling some information and statistics on the finalists here- the final eight are encouraged to add themselves to the list.

Our final eight will play it out for two months, after which we will know 2010's WikiCup winner, and a variety of prizes will be awarded. As ever, anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page. If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox and The ed17 23:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm in the final 8! Yay!-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:11, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Congrats on making it to the final eight! :) Keep up the great work. You are an amazing contributor. Cheers, --  M e a g h a n [talk] ≈  00:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll likely come in last or 7th though but I'm still shocked that I got into this position in the first place :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 00:45, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Whether you come in 1st or 8th, the WikiCup isn't about winning - it's about improving the encyclopedia, which is something you've accomplished 100%. Good luck! --  M e a g h a n [talk] ≈  01:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow! you entered this, really not thinking you'd make it to the finals. I shared the same thoughts. Gl hf

(good luck, high five)! Buggie111 (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats! Good luck with the finals.  ~DC  Let's Vent 01:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks everyone! And you were right Meaghan, it's not about what place I come in but improving the project. Thanks for reminding me of that :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 02:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Congrats, and good luck! See you next year! ~  Nerdy Science  Dude  02:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Davara
More info on her via this webpage which can be used to expand the article. Mjroots (talk) 12:12, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll see what I can do with this. I'm hoping to take this to a GA sometime soon(ish).-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 03:18, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
~  Nerdy Science  Dude  01:08, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Erzherzog Franz
I see you have made a lot of progress on those Austrians. I was thiking about the Radetzkys and whether or not to nom Zrinyi for an A and, more importantly, EFF for another FA. I think all the problems have been fixed (someone has added Sondhaus or whatever his name to the refs). I'm also wondering if you have refs for U-66, a U-boat currently in my sandbox. TIA, Buggie111 (talk) 01:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm all for an ACR for SMS Zrinyi. I'd be a co-nom between us as we both worked on it. Can you set it up for us? I'm about to nominate Tegetthoff for a GA. EFF,we can nominate for an FA once more once we get that ACR out of the way. I'll see what I can do for U-66. I'll try to get to it before you move it into the main space. Last thing, mind getting to work on the Erzherzog Karl class for me? You can use the paragraph of the ships from the list to get the class article going. Thanks :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course I will. God will have to supply me with Sondhaus and all that other stuff, so I'm leaving it up to him or Google Books. I migth save U-66 for January and the Cup. Buggie111 (talk) 01:20, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks ;) Good luck next year. There is a chance that I'll not be in it but judging instead but we'll see what happens, I may end up representing good ol' Deutschland again.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Ferdinand Max
I couldn't see much on the first G books result, barring German books. Do you have anything on them? Buggie111 (talk) 16:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. Try my list and see if it is mentioned there. I'm working on the class article right now....-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 16:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sokol and Grieger give snippet previews in Google, while Hore doesn't give anything. Haplern only gives sparse info. Buggie111 (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have Sokol. Just try and get what you can :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:48, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

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Looks like you're having fun
Such a FAC! It may be the longest in time in history ...--Wehwalt (talk) 02:03, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah. I'm having a blast.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 10:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * A blast, A blast. Where art thou goat? Where are thou O time? I was the captain of a ship, but alas it sank, sank down unto the watery depths of oblivion. My face is gone. The face of the buddha does not change, or so I've heard. Spongefrog,   (I am Czar of all Russias!)  12:41, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/German Type UB I submarine/archive1
Hi WhiteShadows. I wanted to let you know that I have archived the FAC for German Type UB I submarine. This was a hard one for me, but sourcing standards have been steadily increasing at FAC and unfortunately it was your article that saw the latest skirmish. From reviewer comments, it seems as if the article is very close to achieving FAC consensus, and I hope that you will bring it back again after taking into consideration the position of those who opposed and left comments. Karanacs (talk) 19:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for this WhiteShadows. For your first FAC, this went spectacularly. You should be extremely proud of your effort. I hope that you can find more reliable sources and improve the article with them; best of luck. I'll continue to help whenever you need me!  ceran  thor 19:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that if you have anything close, WS, Karanacs will most likely not have a problem waiving the usual two week waiting period after an archived FAC. I also am proud of you and your efforts.  Basically, you were doing a heroic job running up a slope while on top of a landslide.  They'll take you seriously when we bring in Lee I hope next month.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:03, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * To extend the analogy, in my experience it's better to be a tree than a rock at FAC; bend a little, give a little, don't dig your heels in. Much of what's currently cited to uboat.net could be cited to book sources, some on Google books. All that's needed is to reduce the reliance on that web site. I think it might be better to wait the two weeks though, otherwise a very similar discussion is likely to erupt on the next FAC. Malleus Fatuorum 20:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Please wait the two weeks, if only to give yourself a breather. I echo the other comments, though - you were put in a pretty difficult situation and for the most part handled yourself very well.  Good luck! Karanacs (talk) 20:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant if he had anything else near ready, but I would say Karanacs is right, spend the time polishing and also writing a few articles that will get you GA points in the Cup, I would not suggest renomming here until you have taken care of the sourcing issue. If the books are not readily obtainable, it is possible you might be able to get the info given to you by someone with the book.  The German Federal Archives in Koblenz has been marginally helpful to me on occasion,  they may have a list of launch dates and so forth if you email them.  Yes, in German, but that can be dealt with.  And Malleus is right, at FAC you have to go with the flow.  A FA is written to a very ideosychratic style, with very special rules, and it takes time to adjust to that.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's to do with FAC per se, rather the difference between writing a journal article or a newspaper article vs. an encyclopedia article. Very few of us have had previous experience of writing encyclopedia articles, no matter how much other writing we may have done. Anyway, I only came to encourage WS not to be too down-hearted; it was a damn close-run thing really. Malleus Fatuorum 20:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * WS, If you ever need something translated from German, let me know. I won't be back to Germany before late October (and even then I wouldn't be available to dig about in libraries), so I can't pull sources for this one, but anything you can forward or link is fair game.  Эlcobbola  talk 20:45, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Wish I had known you back when we were working on Rudolf Wolters, Fainites and I were fumbling through German articles and sources ...--Wehwalt (talk) 21:00, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, WS, I think consensus is that you've built up some good will through mostly keeping your poise through a very difficult FAC that would have had stronger men shouting in rage.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:02, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. The irony in this story was the fact that I just logged on to add in more info from some already cited books in the place of Uboat.net to reduce the article's reliability on the site and I've discovered that it failed. This week really has not been going well for me guys and I think that I'll be taking a while off. Could I have seen that the FAC would have failed based on the use of probably the biggest source that I use for the rest of my articles, I would have certainly tried to replace the site in as many instances as I could have while keeping the credibility of Uboat.net intact but I do not know how I would have gone about that. The credibility of the rest of my articles has largely been shattered and I'll likely be seeing more GAN reviews go like this "A recent FAC proves that Uboat.net is a novelty site and therefore, I am failing this article due to the reliability of it's sources." FAC is rougher than RFA IMHO. At least I only got a few negative comments about the low quality of my articles. Anyway, long story short, thanks for the comments guys but I don't really think I have what it takes to get an FA on my own. I've tried it twice now and once with the help of several of OMT's best writers and I've still come up short. I'll try to get to work on Lee when I can Wehwalt. All the best,-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 22:52, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You lost on a technicality; the flaw was in that website, not in your work.  One's first FAC can be extremely rough.  I'm sure you are unhappy, but it really does not reflect on you.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:01, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, now Ferdinand will be your first FAC, thank god that doesn't use uboat.net. Buggie111 (talk) 23:04, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * @Wehwalt. I know but the thing is, I specialize on U-boats. I do use books where I can but U-boat.net is the most easily accessible piece of work I can get. I'll no longer be able to churn our GA's like I once did. "I've lost my right arm" @ Buggie. Perhaps but I'll never get the satisfaction of writing an FAC. I'll have just done the minor tweaks to get it there. To be honest, I don't think it will pass because it is just too short.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:11, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It is hard to argue with that point. Perhaps you could find out what they base their data on and obtain copies?  I've found a lot of people helpful if you mention Wikipedia.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That point wasn't raised in the FAC (meaning for Erzherzog). But you always have your FL, and two more lists in your sandboxes that could become FL's (hint hint...). Buggie111 (talk) 23:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Uboat.net does use sources when they mention attacks on a U-boat. Buggie, I'll gladly co-nom it with you but we need to make sure that it will pass. I'm not suffering a third one of these :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:34, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It's slightly alarming that this seems to have degenerated into a "here's another way you could boost you WikiCup score" discussion. Naively I'd thought that White Shadows just wanted to write the best article that he could. Malleus Fatuorum 23:37, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I could not care less about my WikiCup score. I do want to write the best article I can. That's why I was so bummed out when it failed.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I wasn't suggesting that Erzherzog could boost it. I've wanted to tackle that since April, so it has nothing to do with the current sitcom. Buggie111 (talk) 23:40, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Before you nominate it Biggie, try to get a second opinion on it from Parsec or Ed :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * My final comment; you could and should have easily dealt with the objections to uboat.net citations by replacing many of them with sources freely available on Google books, several of which were pointed out to you. You opted not to do so because you felt that you had to defend the reliability of uboat.net, as the points gained by the articles you submit for the WikiCup depend on it. That's the way I see it anyway. Prove me wrong. Malleus Fatuorum 23:49, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * @White Shadows: Buggie will do so. @Malleus: I'm in agreance with you. I think uboat.net is a great site, but I know that paper sources come out higher than digital on the reliable sources-o-meter. I'm trying to find anything possible for U-66 that's not online, and I'm doing kind of well. I suggest you take the same approach. Buggie111 (talk) 23:56, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Uh Malleus, in case you did not know, I do not speak German. I'll leave your opinions to yourself but the Cup is not a goal in-of itself for me. Hence the fact that I'm likely not doing it again next year :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think what you would be wise to do is replace the uboat references that you can in the manner Malleus suggests. It is very possible to struggle through a German source with the aid of Google translate and the advantage of knowing most of the terms, not to mention Elcobbola's kind offer.  After that, submit the article to peer review and notify all of the people who commented on this point at the FAC.  Once as many as possible are happy, submit it to FAC again.  Don't you see that most people around here want you to succeed but are unwilling to lower standards?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:08, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think the standards whould be lowered at all but I fell like I was cheated out. Uboat.net passed a past FAC and an ACR and is listed a RS based off of WP:SHIPS No one brought it up until SandyG started to wail about it. I'll take the advice and work on replacing it where I can.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 00:19, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sandy recused her position as delegate and strongly opposed my first FAC with sourcing concerns. Approaching such concerns with the belief that they were "wail[ing]", a pejorative, would not have been in the best interests of the article.  Эlcobbola  talk 01:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I am having a bad day and I took it out on this FAC. Thank you for your offer and I'll be sure to consult you if I can find any German sources :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we've also had the conversation about when it it is worth picking a fight, and when it isn't. You risk losing what you have gained through this FAC if you bitch and moan about it.  It isn't about anything else, it's about you.  If you swallow hard and move forward, you will gain respect and appear mature.   If you don't, well, I don't have to spell it out.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand. I've actually gained a lot out of this. I'll try to use what I learned on a future FAC. Thanks and goodnight :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 02:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm completely unsurprised that administrators like you Wehwalt are more concerned about the appearance of maturity rather than the evidence of it. White Shadows is a school kid, being coached by those who ought to know better in how to become a wikpidia administrator. That kind of nonsense really ought to be stopped. Malleus Fatuorum 02:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Right now, I think we are training WS in how to be a FAC contributor, and as we both have alluded to, sometimes you just have to suck it up. Nothing to do with his adminship aspirations right now.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:43, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's nothing to do with "sucking it up", a very juvenile expression. It's to do with mature negotiation amongst editors, about standing your ground when there's any under your feet, recognising when there isn't, and knowing what to do when that happens. That's not a lesson in FAC, it's a lesson in life. Malleus Fatuorum 03:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we are actually in agreement here. I do recognize that the advice we give WS has implications for his RL, and act accordingly, because he has clearly invested a lot of himself in WP.  I would like to think that what advice I do give him is aimed at pointing him in the right direction in life as well as on WP.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll have to forgive me if I find your words somewhat hollow, but weren't you amongst those encouraging us to elevate WS to the ranks of the untouchables only a few weeks ago? Malleus Fatuorum 03:33, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly, though I think you would both find adminship somewhat overrated. How is that inconsistent with wanting to see the kid do well both as a FAC contributor and in life?--Wehwalt (talk) 03:36, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As a bystander who has this pop up every two minutes on his watchlist, I'm in agreance with Wehwalt. The three things are all tied together. Buggie111 (talk) 03:44, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't give a monkey's arse for administrators or "adminship". What I very strongly object to is editors like you who encourage those who are clearly unready (you used the word "kid", not me) to put themselves forwards for a role they are manifestly unsuitable for. Malleus Fatuorum 03:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are we having this argument? It is stupid and pointless.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry I didn't see this before now WS. My German is pretty good, certainly good enough to reliably translate German sources. Regarding book sources I don't have enough on WW1 to be much help, but I do have some on WW2 I can help you with. Regarding the other matter, I wouldn't worry too much about getting or not getting FA, as "there is reason to believe that Wikipedia’s featured articles are not much better than other reasonably developed articles on the site.". Keep working away at improving articles, your efforts are appreciated, and don't worry over-much about gaining external recognition. FAs are no big deal as adminship is no big deal. Let achievements be their own reward, it is much more satisfying in the long run. --John (talk) 04:36, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I initially decided to work on this article to show User:Bellhalla some recognition. He wrote much of it and sadly left before he could promote it. I merely picked up the pieces and tried to continue it from where he left off. This FAC had nothing to do with that horribly premature RFA I was ignorant enough to accept at all Malleus. You know that for a while now, I've been a content writer. That itself is a reward for me. I get the satisfaction of knowing that a so called "kid" managed to write at least something Featured on the 7th most visited site in the world. You don't think that does not boost my already sagging self-esteem? I'm not out to climb a ladder, whether it be a user right one or rewards, I'm out to get my own TFA. My above comments seem to be pretty immature and I'm sorry. This was just one in a long streak of disappointments that have plagued my all week, both in RL and here. I've got to remember that I'm doing this for fun. Thanks for the comment John. I've also got another offer so when I get the time to try and find some German sources, I'll ping you with a link to them :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 10:28, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Go for it. If you want to hold off on Lee because you want to pursue your own FA first, it is not a problem, I have a lot to keep me busy.  It is indeed a proud moment when you look at the main page and there it is.  Hoping that won't take you too long.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd rather get some more experience with you and Lee before I try at an FAC by my self again :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As you like. I am home for a couple of days, but not enough time to get into the project, I will be back from Canada on the 22nd I think and I will start work right after that.  Feel free to do the war part whenever you like, Mexican and Civil.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:43, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Miscellany for deletion/Secret pages 2
Because you participated in Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Hi878/Secret Page List, you may be interested in Miscellany for deletion/Secret pages 2. Cunard (talk) 07:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

List of battleships of the Ottoman Empire.
I've decided to dig out the third tier refs I have to spice that boy up. On a side note, Goeben is technically a battlecruiser, as stated in both Parsec's work and Battle of Imbros (1918). I'm not sure on whether to include it or not, so I'm asking you. You should also remember that you have an Italian list also in your sandbox. And what about the info in the lead of the Ottoman article? Should it be cited? Buggie111 (talk) 21:58, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And, I managed to persuade a firend of mine to give a a "large book on U-boats about an inch thick". I'm hoping to get it tommorow, so I'll skim through it and see if it has somthing you need. Buggie111 (talk) 22:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * While Goeben is technically a battlecruiser, it was a battleship under Ottoman ownership. Perhaps to fix confusion, the name of the list could be "List of battleships and battlecruisers of the Ottoman Empire". The lead does need citing to some extent. I'm going to finish the Ottoman one and then get to work on the Italian list. Help out as much as you can :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 22:01, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Okey dokey :). Buggie111 (talk) 22:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

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DYK for Davara
The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations on an excellent article. Gillyweed (talk) 05:40, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It can be worked on a bit more but thank you.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 10:18, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

RE: Ottoman battleships
Looks good for B to me, assessed accordingly. I would say go for it in regards to ACR, it looks ready to me. Regards, Woody (talk) 09:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Just nominated it. Thanks!-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 11:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've watchlisted the review. Buggie111 (talk) 13:13, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello! I have sent you an email pertaining to the ACR. Cheers, Constantine  ✍  14:19, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys. I'll get back to you ASAP :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 21:46, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

U boat book
I got a book by Preston on U-boats from both wars. It's chock full of info, so you can call me up if you need it. And it does not have any preview in google Books. Buggie111 (talk) 23:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Feel free to add it to any U-boat articles I work on. I too have a few good books on them but they are WWII, not WWI.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The Milhist election has started!
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has started. You are cordially invited to help pick fourteen new coordinators from a pool of twenty candidates. This time round, the term has increased from six to twelve months so it is doubly important that you have your say! Please cast your vote here no later than 23:59 (UTC) on Tuesday, 28 September 2010.

With many thanks in advance for your participation from the coordinator team,  Roger Davies  talk 19:48, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

are you around?
Are you around right now?Malke 2010 (talk) 00:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Now I am. Why?-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you ever brought an article to GA?Malke 2010 (talk) 23:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

uhh...only 33 times, why?-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Impressive. I've never done it.  I've read the Wikipedia page.  Any advice?Malke 2010 (talk) 12:33, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, if there are other GA's from a similar topic, follow that page as a template.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:24, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

compiling articles promoted for WikiCup
I noted your interest in compiling a list of all contributions made for the WikiCup - just wondering if you had started on one? If not, I may start tonight, as it would be interesting to know just how much we are accomplishing with this. Resolute 19:21, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been very busy recently so no, not yet. If you can start it, I'll try to add in some more info along the way. I'm just swamped with RL issues right now.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:23, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

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Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage
Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:SMS Tegetthoff
User:Jim Sweeney decided to review this. Just a little reminder to come around when you have time. Buggie111 (talk) 13:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Can you start on fixing the standardization issues? They will only take a few edits. Thanks :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:46, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * He also seems to have reviewed SM UB-50. Buggie111 (talk) 01:29, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll work on Tegetthoff, you can work with NSD on UB-50. Whoever of the three of us finishes first can help the others. Is that good? :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. We have to get back to the Radetzkys after this. Buggie111 (talk) 02:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Possible DYK/GA co-project
Take a look in my sandbox here. If you have references which talk about him more than my major source, we could perhaps get DYK/GA credit together. Otherwise, I'll just submit it to DYK.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:30, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've heard of him. Not sure if I have anything on him but I'll check :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How 'bout this? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's his son. Buggie111 (talk) 03:35, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * His son could be mentioned in the article nonetheless. Nice find Nikkimaria.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 10:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, so it is...is this him? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It is him on page 70, but it seems to be superflous to info already added. Buggie111 (talk) 13:11, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that, but as is pointed out, it's already in the article. Besides, that book refers to him as a naval aide.  I'm hopeful of sources that fill in the blanks, and of helping WS get some points in.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've actually always wanted to find out who the heck was the guy who punched Teddy, so now I know. Buggie111 (talk) 13:44, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you know. If WS doesn't have sources on this guy, I'll move it out of my userspace on Sunday or Monday and nom it for DYK.  If he does, I'd happily share credit.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:07, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry Wehwalt. I have nothing on this guy.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 19:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No biggie, just thought I'd give you the chance.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:57, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Austro Hungarian GT
As this is not so far away, I'd like to ask you if, after Tegetthoff and her class, we can start Franz Ferdinand and Zrinyi's noms. Also, to have this boy at FT status, we are going to have to have all of the Radetzkys, Tegetthoffs and the Ersatz Monarch class become FA's, as it has been shown that hte Habsburgs are too short, and I believe the Karl's are also in that predicment. Buggie111 (talk) 00:22, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll do some number crunching now to see what we need to get to an FT. I think that first thing's first, we need to get the Tegetthoff, the class article and the Erzherzog's to GA status. Then we work on the FAC's.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 00:25, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well ok. I'll try and find somthing on the Karl's tomorrow. Buggie111 (talk) 00:31, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to nominate the class article on the Karl's soon. I just need a bit more for the Service history section and find info for or replace the line drawing of the class in the characteristics section.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 00:33, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's all nice and dandy. Do you think sEvastopol could take a GA? Buggie111 (talk) 17:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Possibly. It needs a bit of work but yes. However We need to finish the AH BB's before we go off to other side projects.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 17:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I know. Do you think Tegetthoff is done? I've turned around to trying to expand the Karl's Buggie111 (talk) 17:42, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The class or the ship itself?-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 17:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The ship. It seems that all of the points have been adressed. Buggie111 (talk) 17:45, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I just need the reviewer to reply.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 17:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Where you at
I came by looking for your explanation on J Milburn's talk. Where you at?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are you looking for a fight?-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 18:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Tony, maybe time for taking a couple of deep breaths? Conflict happens around here, but when it starts getting multiple, it's time to fill the sink and insert head, repeat as necessary.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:14, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just looking for clarification of what I thought was a Extreme contradiction in your argument. Could you come by and clear it up for me.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:23, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Adding fuel to the flames, fine by me if you want me too.... But I'll do it here instead. Tony, you don't seem to get the fact that those were drive by noms. The only thing that makes them debatable is the fact that you took a "detour" in doing the drive-by. I'm not sure what more you want me to say. Am I not speaking English here or are you simply having a case of selective hearing or worse is beyond me....-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 19:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Since you are using the term drive by and I am not understanding its relevance, can you explain your understanding of my role in the Cato June VP promotion and what would have happened without me playing this role.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:47, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No...I cannot and I will not. Stop "acting stupid" and get this through your thick head that only cares for a Pixelated trophy rather than for true content improvement; You do not deserved to claim credit for these FPs and VPs. You never uploaded the images or taken them yourself. You merely nominated them and sent some e-mails to people who did the needed work. Had you re-stitched them, then you could legitimately claim the points but you did not. Knock it off Tony. Stop being a greedy, trophy collecting, paranoid, "sandbagger" and start to actually do your fair share of work before you claim credit for it. I'm done replying to you. I'm not a judge and like you said before, I should not "rule on other competitors points". Please give it a rest man.....-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 19:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * So behind your huffing and puffing you confess that you do not understand that my role in the Cato June VP was more than sending emails. Thus, you say you want to end this conversation before discussing how important my role was in that promotion. Very low class, but choose your out if you must.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You really have lost the plot Tony. Leave it, go for a walk, do anything else but keep on with this kind of nonsense all over wikipedia. Malleus Fatuorum 20:14, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Malleus gives good advice Tony (Far better than mine normally) I suggest that you take it :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:16, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How about this. Since neither of you wants to discuss the issue. Should a person be given credit for a VP when he is the primary restorer/editor of the promoted version of an image.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How about this, who gives a fuck? Your obsession with getting credit for stuff is very far from healthy. Reflect on that. Malleus Fatuorum 20:31, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I could not have said it better myself Malleus. Tony, pick and choose your battles. You happened to pick this one. I think that you know which side you are in this analogy.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 20:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Submarine
I don't see anything terribly wrong with your article, although I'm curious why Kriegsmarine and the other German translations are not in italics. So long as you are prepared to defend the uboat.net references, you might as well run it when the 2 week period runs out.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 23:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Bravo November
Hi there White Shadows, thanks for assessing Bravo November. Could you elaborate on which sentences you think don't have citations. Everything in the article is cited, the lead citations being in the main body of the article. It should simply be a case of me moving round the citations. Could you also fill out the B-Class checklist on the talkpage? Many thanks. Woody (talk) 13:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Having just read over the article again. I think that it is well deserving of B-class. I'll go update it now :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 21:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

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Talkback
It appears some editors have commented on your oppose. ~  Nerdy Science  Dude  02:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Tegetthoff
I know I'm babling as fast as the Wall Street ticker tape, but Tegetthoff has passed GA, sio we can get onto the class article, and soon the Karl's. Taking into account HAbsburg's ACR and my concerns on the shortness of duty that the Karl's experienced, we alreadey know we are going to have 8 GA's. To ahve an FT, we need at leasat 9 FA's and no more than 9 GA's. This means that one of the Radetzkys, Tegetthoffs or the Ersatz Monrach can stay at GA and still have it pass as an FT. I feel that the Ersatz Monarch should stay at GA, as I'm not sure on the info available for them, but I'd like your opinion too. Buggie111 (talk) 15:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I say we just try to promote what we can. First we need to get this to a GTC though :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:37, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's start working on the class article. It is the weekend, and I think I will have sometime tonight between my adoptee, Red Faction: Guerilla and other IRL actions. I hope to have it at GAC by Monday. Buggie111 (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan Buggie. As for other FA's I think that the SMS Radetzky is a good candidate. Sokol has lots of info on her.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 21:42, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you and commiseration
Hi White Shadows. Firstly, I want to thank you for your vote in the recent elections. Secondly, I'm sorry you didn't get in; you're quite up and coming at the moment and I don't want this to discourage you. From a personal point of view, my own voting policy was to only cast 15 votes (for 15 co-ords) so I'm afraid to say that you were in the top 16.... I can only suggest that you keep your chin up, chime in when you can on the main talk pages and see how things look in a year (sounds a long time I know, think of it as 365 days instead!). Cheers, Ranger Steve (talk) 19:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep the faith. Next time, you'll get it.  You've got a wonderful record here.Malke 2010 (talk) 21:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I can only echo the thoughts above me. Who knows, maybe I'll make it in two years. Buggie111 (talk) 23:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sad or down at all. I only ran in an attempt to help MILHIST. No issues here at all :) Good luck being a cord Ranger and I'll see if I want to run next year :)-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 01:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear it. Thanks again, Ranger Steve   Talk  19:21, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No Problem.-- White Shadows Your guess is as good as mine 19:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 September newsletter
We are half-way through our final round, entering the home straight. leads at the time of writing with 1180 points, immediately followed by with 1175 points. closely follows in third place with 1100 points. For those who are interested, data about the finalists has been compiled at WikiCup/History/2010/finalists, while a list of content submitted by all WikiCup contestants prior to this round has been compiled at WikiCup/History/2010/Submissions. As ever, anything contestants worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page.

Despite controversy, the WikiCup remains open. Signups for next year's competition are more than welcome, and suggestions for how next year's competition will work are appreciated at Wikipedia talk:WikiCup/Scoring. More general comments and discussions should be directed at the WikiCup talk page. One month remains in the 2010 WikiCup, after which we will know our champion. Good luck everyone! If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox and The ed17 23:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)